I am researching the family lines of Thomas Kempe b.about 1557 Of Ginns,and Beaulieu, England, who married Mary Oglander of Newchurch, Hampshire, England. Mary was daughter of Sir William Oglander of Nunwell, who descended down from John Oglander & Joan Molendarius. Thomas Kempe & Mary Oglander had six known children: Elizabeth, John, Frances(Female), Robert Francis(male) & Amy. I am focusing research on the two boys Robert(b. about 1576) and Francis (b.about 1578). I know they were both married and may have had children, but to date have found nothing. I am also researching the Oglander lines, and have quite a bit collected already and am most willing to share with anyone also researching the Oglander's of Isle of Wight. Yours, Patricia

To the many fellow listers who have answered, I am doing a "total" reply as each has brought up different answers/suggestions and the following is a summary of what has been found/happening. It seems my Henry PAGE was born on 6th April 1786 and baptised on 28th December 1792 (along with three brothers Richard, Robert and George) at Scots Lane Independent, Salisbury, Wiltshire. This information is via the IGI and Batch No C077951. Hopefully one day I will be able to get a copy of the originals. As pointed out Milford is a tything to Laverstock near Salisbury - boy oh boy it is learning all the time. I gather "tything" is where a percentage is paid to the church. Now I could assume this would be to the Church of England, whereas it would appear that the above family was christened at a Non-Conformist church (another item to be checked). When my Henry moved to the IOW is obviously a big question but he did marry at Norton, Freshwater in 1812 to Sally ROBBINS. Their son Henry (who marries a Matilda BROWN) is listed in 1851 Census and not to be confused with Dad Henry. At a guess Henry Snr is away at sea with both the 1841 and 1851 Census but his wife Sally does appear in the 1841 Census at Freshwater. Unfortunately Henry Snr's birth is listed in the LDS site as 6th April 1788 (being submitted information) this being what was given to my cousin (who put up the information) by a researcher - close to the birth date in 1786 but the year incorrect and the cousin will not change this or other information which is incorrect. My brick wall has crumbled in regards to Henry Snr's birth and now I have to try and find out about his parents - no luck with a marriage on the IGI so the next wall comes up (and I have no idea re Wiltshire) Many thanks again to all who have helped chip away and knock a couple of bricks off the brick wall - what would family history/genealogy be without a challenge. Kind regards, Denise B Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia - denise@lighthouseelectrical.com

Flattering as it is to find one's name now mentioned as a subject header, I cannot allow the debate to pass without my further contribution. I have just returned from Dorset after spending a few days with my dear wife, since we are currently living apart forcibily as she has to remain in Poole to look after her mother who is almost a centenarian whilst I keep our other home in Hertfordshire going. I arrive home to hundreds of e-mails, including ones which suggest that my name is now being taken in vain as not knowing my history. I cannot, of course, permit this to pass unchallenged! I will therefore quote at length from perhaps the best-known and most knowledgeable historian of the Wars of the Roses period, ALISON WEIR, whose book "Lancaster & York: The Wars of the Roses" was published by Random House in 1995..... "A colourful legend, enshrined in the plays of Shakespeare, relates that the Wars of the Roses broke out in the gardens of the Inns of Temple in London. York and Somerset were one day walking there and fell into an argument, in the course of which Somerset plucked a red rose from a nearby bush and said, 'Let all of my party wear this flower!' York, not to be outdone, picked a white rose to be the emblem of his party. "Sadly, there is no truth in the legend. York was in the north in May 1455 when the incident is said to have taken place, and there is no evidence that the red rose was used as a badge by the House of Lancaster at this date. Nevertheless, red and white roses have been grown in the Temple Gardens since the sixteenth century to commemorate the event. "The white rose was certainly one of the badges of the House of York, although York's personal badge was the falcon and fetterlock. Many modern historians claim that the Lancastrian red rose symbol was invented as propaganda by the first Tudor king, Henry VII. York Civic Records state that in 1486, while on progress in the north, he gave orders for a pageant to be held at York, incorporating 'a royal, rich red rose, unto which rose shall appear another rich, white rose, unto whom all flowers shall give sovereignty, and there shall come from the cloud a crown covering the roses'. Thus evolved the Tudor badge of the Rose and Crown, representing the union of Lancaster and York, Henry VII having recently married Elizabeth of York. "The Croyland Chronicle, written in April 1486, also refers to the red rose of Lancaster. There is evidence, though, that the red rose symbol dates from at least as early as the reign of Edward IV, for a Yorkhist genealogy drawn up during this time, and now in the British Library, shows a bush bearing both red and white roses. It should be borne in mind that the rose badges were just two of a number of badges used by members of the Houses of Lancaster and York. "What we now call the Wars of the Roses were sometimes referred to by contemporaries as the 'Cousins' wars'. The phrase 'Wars of the Roses' was coined by Sir Walter Scott in his novel Anne of Geierstein, published in 1829, but the concept was by no means new and originated in fifteenth-century propaganda. A pamphlet of Sir Thomas Smith, written in 1561, referred to 'the striving of the two roses', while Sir John Oglander wrote in 1646 a tract called The Quarrel of the Warring Roses", and David Hume, in 1761, published The Wars of the Two Roses." The above passage would appear to indicate that the origins of the roses theme is shrouded in mystery and uncertainty, a fact which I myself established several years ago when talking to the College of Arms. The plain and simple fact is that no-one quite knows the truth, but I suspect Alison Weir gets as close to it as anyone ever will. She suggests - and I go along with her - that the Tudor Rose was a creation of Henry VII, the victor of Bosworth Field, for propaganda purposes. After all, he would wish to reunite his kingdom after 30 years of civil war and in those times symbols were hugely important. What seems also to be clear is that white and red roses were never more than secondary symbols for the Houses of York and Lancaster and, certainly, the idea that soldiers on opposing sides wore them on their breastplates to enable them to distinguish friends from enemies is almost certainly nonsense. Alison Weir refers quite plainly to the invention by Shakespeare, which is what I mentioned originally. She also mentions something which I have often pointed out, namely that the Wars of the Roses, as a historical phrase, was invented by Sir Walter Scott as recently as 1829. I think I know my history as well as most here, plus I have a considerable library of books (anyone remember books, BTW?) and I am always happy to engage in debate about historical events, since I believe I am more knowledgeable than most on the subject. My researches are not confined to schoolboy history lessons. Pip, pip, all !!! -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Go well and have a wonderful time, Angela; remember, if you come across anything pertaining to Emma Dallimore (estranged spouse of Joseph, married 1864 Newchurch) and their daughter, Lottie, I'd be grateful. Helen Martin (Dallimore) isle-of-wight-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > This Isle-of-Wight digest is now sent to you from RootsWeb using new software. There are two forms for the digest MIME or Plain Text. To receive the digest in the other format, please contact the list admin at &lt; Isle-of-Wight-admin@rootsweb.com > and specify which format you would prefer. > > You can confirm which format you are current receiving by looking at the full headers of this message. Plain Text Digest are "Content-Type: text/plain;" and MIME digests are "Content-Type: multipart/mixed;". The way that a digest looks is very much the function of the e-mail system that is being used to read the message. > > When replying to a digest message, quote only the specific message to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. > > To send a new message to the list send it to Isle-of-Wight@rootsweb.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Moving to IoW (Angela McMurtry) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > [IoW] Moving to IoW > From: > "Angela McMurtry" <palmtreeqld@bigpond.com> > Date: > Mon, 5 Oct 2009 21:18:35 +1000 > To: > <isle-of-wight@rootsweb.com> > > To: > <isle-of-wight@rootsweb.com> > > > Hi Everyone, > > After a false start in Septemeber :-( I am pleased to announce that I am > heading across to Cowes the week of the 19th of October. > > My current email address will not be in use after the 13th October. > > If you live on the Island and would like to meet me, email me off list > and I'll send you my address. > > I had the opportunity 2 week's ago to meet List member Denise Brown - > finally after 10 year's of exchanging emails and letters and it was > lovely I couldn't believe how similar we were in personality. Guess the > genes have to kick in somewhere :-) > > Cheers > Angela McMurtry in Qld Australia > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To contact the ISLE-OF-WIGHT list administrator, send an email to > ISLE-OF-WIGHT-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the ISLE-OF-WIGHT mailing list, send an email to ISLE-OF-WIGHT@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ISLE-OF-WIGHT-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.14.4/2416 - Release Date: 10/05/09 18:23:00 >

Hi Everyone, After a false start in Septemeber :-( I am pleased to announce that I am heading across to Cowes the week of the 19th of October. My current email address will not be in use after the 13th October. If you live on the Island and would like to meet me, email me off list and I'll send you my address. I had the opportunity 2 week's ago to meet List member Denise Brown - finally after 10 year's of exchanging emails and letters and it was lovely I couldn't believe how similar we were in personality. Guess the genes have to kick in somewhere :-) Cheers Angela McMurtry in Qld Australia

Hello Stephen, you will find that Mary Ann was a very common name. That is not much comfort! Have you considered looking for wills? Having only the father's name in the register is probably due to a chauvenistic incumbent. My George Gray, baptized in Portsmouth in 1747, is the son of - George Gray. There are two other boys but no girl to give me a possible start. With no mother's name and, presumably, his parents marrying before 1754, I am stuck! I might be lucky with an entry in a parish register. What a lot of time this takes. A good hobby for the winter. Regards, Anne in Wales ======================================== Message Received: Oct 03 2009, 11:48 PM From: "Stephen Shafer" To: "Vanessa Marshall" , anne@celliddu.freeserve.co.uk, Isle-of-Wight@rootsweb.com Cc: chriscjbartlett@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [IoW] DAW, Rosina married 1802 at Alverstoke Hello from Rosina's g-g-g-grandson. Lookups by you in ancestry made me take another dip therein. There were quite a few Daws being baptized in the southern half of England around 1780 !! Of interest is one Richard Daw who had three children baptized 1779-1782 at St Helen's (IOW), Hampshire. They were Richard, William and Mary Ann. No Rosina listed. That "my" Rosina Daw named one of her daughters Mary Ann (my g-g-grandmother) , however, merits a further look Any suggestions on how to do that? Might there be a parish registry that would have Rosina if she were a sib of the others even though she is not in the national BMD index? Also, under what circumstances was a child baptized with only the father named? Could this mean the mother was not of that church and refused to come? Could it mean she was herself not baptized and was therefore considered unqualified to be listed? I can see widowerhood to explain one baptism without mother named, but not three over four years. Thanks, Stephen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vanessa Marshall" To: ; ; Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 4:31 PM Subject: Re: [IoW] DAW, Rosina married 1802 at Alverstoke > Dear Anne, > > In Dorset they are definitely seperate surnames found in different areas > of the county, but I can see how one could be a corruption of the other > when said, especially with a local accent. > > Ancestry has the following baptisms listed: > > Name: Rosanna DAW > Gender: Female > Birth Date: abt 1781 > Christening Date: 1 Jul 1781 > Christening Place: Frampton, Dorset, England > Father's Name: William Daw > Mother's Name: Mary > > > Source BIVRI 2nd Ed > > Name: Rose DAW > Gender: Female > Birth Date: abt 1782 > Christening Date: 24 Oct 1782 > Christening Place: Charminster, Dorset, England > Father's Name: Thomas Daw > Mother's Name: Ann > > > Source - BIVRI 2nd Ed > > Stephen / Chris - I don't know if these help, but I can't find any other > Rose / Rosina / Rosena /Rosannas etc. in any other counties which may be > her. It might be worth keeeping these for later reference if needed. > > Vanessa > Dorset > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Stephen Shafer" ; > > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 6:12 PM > Subject: Re: [IoW] DAW, Rosina married 1802 at Alverstoke > > >> Greetings All, >> are DAW and DORE the same name? >> Anne in Wales >> >> >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> Message Received: Oct 01 2009, 05:16 PM >> From: "Stephen Shafer" >> To: Isle-of-Wight@rootsweb.com >> Cc: chriscjbartlett@hotmail.com >> Subject: [IoW] DAW, Rosina married 1802 at Alverstoke >> >> >> Hello, I am trying to find the parents and perhaps grandparents of my >> ancestor Rosina DAW who married Richard Shackle in 1802 at Alverstoke. >> The couple's children, at least some of them, were baptized at St Thomas, >> Portsmouth circa 1809-1813. Their grandson, John Alexander CREAL, b. 1850 >> kept the Eagle Tavern in the Isle of Wight. For that reason, and because >> of the many DAWs found in the IOW, I think Rosina may have been born on >> IOW or had ancestors from there before moving to the mainland. >> >> Any advice will be appreciated. This is ccd to my cousin in the UK who is >> working on the same family, CREAL. >> >> Stephen Shafer >> New York > >

Hi Listers, A reminder that Hants RO has copies (and some originals) of IoW records (but unfortunately no parish registers), they have a good online catalogue that can be searched using CALM (http://calm.hants.gov.uk/DServe/) the data entered is and'ed so if you add 'wight' to your searches it will generally eliminate all of the non-IoW entries. There are many pre-1858 wills in the catalogue and if you find an item of interest I think you can request a printed copy for a fee (of course) but hopefully not too much. Bob Hills

Hello all My 3x Great Grandfather was John Snook B Milford on Sea circa 1790 according to the Card Index (from calculations made) and IGI etc records located to date. However, cannot trace him to an actual date for bp or birth nor his marriage to an ?unknown perhaps an Alice whose maiden surname also cannot be found, so cannot be sure he actually married an Alice. We think not on the Island. One of the brick walls we have with my tracing this descendant is that the descendants from the above obviously moved to IOW (Shalfleet/Yarmouth area) and then became Blacksmiths - John Macey Snook Bp 6 March 1814 Shalfleet marr Alice nee Jackson @ Carisbrooke 18 Aug 1836 and they lived in Newport, operating from Snooks Hill Coppins Bridge Newport IOW. Their son John B Barton Village 20. 9. 1846 was one of the children who survived, and sadly they lost a fair few. Also did they, perhaps, name the Hill at Snooks after this business, does anyone, maybe with a local knowledge of the area, know? A kind Lister may, even also, be good enough to confirm (if they have the full sub to Ancestry!!) and are able to look, whether there is any trace of John and his Wife from Milford on Sea Hants or their marriage or death or burial somewhere??? as this is a complete mystery so far. Probably because of looking in the wrong areas! which can be a common mistake to make in research. Cheers and thanking everyone who has been very kind to us both in our joint researches in the past. John _________________________________________________________________ Save time by using Hotmail to access your other email accounts. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/167688463/direct/01/

Hello Listers, I have purchased microfiche from the Hampshire Record Office. Also, I bought the Hampshire Wills Index. Remember, the CDs contain transcriptions of the register entries. If you find who you are looking for on the CDs, then it is as well to see the original entries in case of: 1) errors - I've done quite a bit of transcribing so know that errors do occur; 2) extra information that does not fit in with the CDs format; 3) the marriage registers will have the signatures of the parties concerned or, otherwise, a cross. The CDs are very good value. Regards, Anne in Wales ======================================== Message Received: Oct 03 2009, 11:53 PM From: "Vanessa Marshall" To: anne@celliddu.freeserve.co.uk, ISLE-OF-WIGHT@rootsweb.com, "Denise Brown" Cc: Subject: Re: [IoW] Milford on Sea  Dear Anne and Denise, I'm not sure whether you can buy copies of the fiches, but Hampshire Geneaological Society sell CD ROMs of Hampshire Baptism Index (1752 - 1812), Hampshire Marriage Index (1754 - 1837) and Hampshire Burial Index (1400 - 1837) - Please note they exclude the Isle of Wight. See their website at www.hgs-online.org.uk for more info. Denise - Are you sure Henry was born at Milford on Sea as I have checked for you, but Henry PAGE does not appear on the BIVRI or the above baptism index there between 1783 and 1793. In fact no PAGEs (or any variations) are listed. Neither are there any marriages for PAGEs in Milford listed, which could be his parents. Regards Vanessa Dorset ----- Original Message ----- From: anne@celliddu.freeserve.co.uk To: Vanessa Marshall ; Denise Brown ; ISLE-OF-WIGHT@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [IoW] Milford on Sea Greetings All, the parish registers held by the Hampshire Record Office are available there on microfiche. It is possible to buy copies of them from the HRO. Regards, Anne in Wales ======================================== Message Received: Oct 03 2009, 01:34 PM From: "Vanessa Marshall" To: "Denise Brown" , ISLE-OF-WIGHT@rootsweb.com Cc: Subject: Re: [IoW] Milford on Sea Hello Denise, Milford on Sea Parish Records are held at the Hampshire Record Office: Hampshire Record Office Sussex Street, Winchester, Hampshire SO23 8TH tel 01962 846154, fax 01962 878681 Contact Archives and Local Studies see there website for a full on-line catalogue at http://www3.hants.gov.uk/archives.htm Copies are also held at Lymington Library and New Milton Library. I hope this helps. Vanessa Dorset ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denise Brown" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:05 AM Subject: [IoW] Milford on Sea > Hello Francis > > This is further to your email to the Digest on 22/9/09 with your > subject FUQUET and part of the message was re your 6 g-gf's brother > married at Milford -on-Sea - well now over to my question. > > I have suspicion that my 3 times g grandfather (Henry PAGE) was born > at Milford-on-Sea in approximately 1788 then possibly moved to IOW > (just across the way) and married there etc etc. How can I get > access to any BDM's to this parish? Can anyone help on this inquiry? > > Kind regards, > Denise B > Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia - denise@lighthouseelectrical.com

Dear Denise, Your Henry Page (b abt 1814 Freshwater) is on the 1851 census in Freshwater with wife Matilda and family. Matilda is on 1841 census at Freshwater without Henry, so your guess that he was at sea may be correct. - details sent off line. Regards Vanessa Dorset ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denise Brown" <denise@lighthouseelectrical.com> To: <ISLE-OF-WIGHT@rootsweb.com.> Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 7:46 AM Subject: Page birth ? Milford on Sea > To all the many people that have answered a big thank you, but I still > seem to have a brick wall. > > The information that I have been given by a cousin who had a professional > researcher do the research some years back is: (Generally Henry PAGE was a > pilot) > > PRO Register General of Shipping and Seamen. Register of Seaman's > tickets, 1844-83 BT 113/46 Ticket No 91558/ Henry Page, Born Milford, > Wiltshire 6th April 1788 + general description. Ticket issued at Cowes > 9th December 1844. Age when ticket 56. + a list of three ? voyages. > > I have looked at a UK road atlas and not been able to find a Milford in > Wiltshire (a land locked county) so on looking at the "other" Milford's > noticed Milford on Sea in Hampshire which is across the way from > Freshwater which is where Henry PAGE married Sarah ROBBINS in 1812. I > have their marriage and death details (Henry in 1855 at Norton, > Freshwater). > > As I said in my original email I have a "suspicion" that my Henry PAGE was > born at Milford-on-Sea based on the above and also I have found some > information passed onto me by my cousin (and done by the professional > researcher) is incorrect so I needed to check for his birth place. > > Maybe as has been suggested he was born on the Isle of Wight so maybe SKS > may be able to look at the Card Index for me (details as above) > > It appears from the replies that he does NOT appear to have been > born/baptised at Milford-on-Sea so looks like it will need to go back to > the "too hard basket (actually been there for a long time now)". > > I am unable to find this Henry and his son Henry (another Pilot and born > 1812 at Freshwater) in either the 1841 or 1851 Census and at a guess they > would have been "out at sea". > > Any suggestions, assistance is more than welcomed and I would be very > grateful. > > Kind regards, > Denise B > Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia - denise@lighthouseelectrical.com

To all the many people that have answered a big thank you, but I still seem to have a brick wall. The information that I have been given by a cousin who had a professional researcher do the research some years back is: (Generally Henry PAGE was a pilot) PRO Register General of Shipping and Seamen. Register of Seaman's tickets, 1844-83 BT 113/46 Ticket No 91558/ Henry Page, Born Milford, Wiltshire 6th April 1788 + general description. Ticket issued at Cowes 9th December 1844. Age when ticket 56. + a list of three ? voyages. I have looked at a UK road atlas and not been able to find a Milford in Wiltshire (a land locked county) so on looking at the "other" Milford's noticed Milford on Sea in Hampshire which is across the way from Freshwater which is where Henry PAGE married Sarah ROBBINS in 1812. I have their marriage and death details (Henry in 1855 at Norton, Freshwater). As I said in my original email I have a "suspicion" that my Henry PAGE was born at Milford-on-Sea based on the above and also I have found some information passed onto me by my cousin (and done by the professional researcher) is incorrect so I needed to check for his birth place. Maybe as has been suggested he was born on the Isle of Wight so maybe SKS may be able to look at the Card Index for me (details as above) It appears from the replies that he does NOT appear to have been born/baptised at Milford-on-Sea so looks like it will need to go back to the "too hard basket (actually been there for a long time now)". I am unable to find this Henry and his son Henry (another Pilot and born 1812 at Freshwater) in either the 1841 or 1851 Census and at a guess they would have been "out at sea". Any suggestions, assistance is more than welcomed and I would be very grateful. Kind regards, Denise B Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia - denise@lighthouseelectrical.com

"I have looked at a UK road atlas and not been able to find a Milford in Wiltshire (a land locked county)..." Milford, Wiltshire, is now a suburb of Salisbury, East of the City centre. It may be land-locked but it is on the site of a complex merge of rivers... leading to the sea. I would look for a baptism in one of the Salisbury churches. Best regards, John LOVE

Denise, There is a Milford in Wiltshire in the parish of Laverstock so your researcher might have been right.  See http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/WIL/Milford/index.htm which has a link to a modern map. Regards, Joy ________________________________ From: Denise Brown <denise@lighthouseelectrical.com> To: ISLE-OF-WIGHT@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, 4 October, 2009 7:46:36 AM Subject: [IoW] Page birth ? Milford on Sea To all the many people that have answered a big thank you, but I still seem to have a brick wall. The information that I have been given by a cousin who had a professional researcher do the research some years back is: (Generally Henry PAGE was a pilot) PRO Register General of Shipping and Seamen.  Register of Seaman's tickets, 1844-83  BT 113/46 Ticket No 91558/ Henry Page, Born Milford, Wiltshire 6th April 1788 + general description.  Ticket issued at Cowes 9th December 1844.  Age when ticket 56.  + a list of three ? voyages. I have looked at a UK road atlas and not been able to find a Milford in Wiltshire (a land locked county) so on looking at the "other" Milford's noticed Milford on Sea in Hampshire which is across the way from Freshwater which is where Henry PAGE married Sarah ROBBINS in 1812.  I have their marriage and death details (Henry in 1855 at Norton, Freshwater). As I said in my original email I have a "suspicion" that my Henry PAGE was born at Milford-on-Sea based on the above and also I have found some information passed onto me by my cousin (and done by the professional researcher) is incorrect so I needed to check for his birth place. Maybe as has been suggested he was born on the Isle of Wight so maybe SKS may be able to look at the Card Index for me (details as above) It appears from the replies that he does NOT appear to have been born/baptised at Milford-on-Sea so looks like it will need to go back to the "too hard basket (actually been there for a long time now)". I am unable to find this Henry and his son Henry (another Pilot and born 1812 at Freshwater) in either the 1841 or 1851 Census and at a guess they would have been "out at sea". Any suggestions, assistance is more than welcomed and I would be very grateful. Kind regards, Denise B Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia - denise@lighthouseelectrical.com ************************************** You can contact the Isle of Wight List Administrator by emailing: Isle-of-Wight-Admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ISLE-OF-WIGHT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Anne and Denise, I'm not sure whether you can buy copies of the fiches, but Hampshire Geneaological Society sell CD ROMs of Hampshire Baptism Index (1752 - 1812), Hampshire Marriage Index (1754 - 1837) and Hampshire Burial Index (1400 - 1837) - Please note they exclude the Isle of Wight. See their website at www.hgs-online.org.uk for more info. Denise - Are you sure Henry was born at Milford on Sea as I have checked for you, but Henry PAGE does not appear on the BIVRI or the above baptism index there between 1783 and 1793. In fact no PAGEs (or any variations) are listed. Neither are there any marriages for PAGEs in Milford listed, which could be his parents. Regards Vanessa Dorset ----- Original Message ----- From: anne@celliddu.freeserve.co.uk To: Vanessa Marshall ; Denise Brown ; ISLE-OF-WIGHT@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [IoW] Milford on Sea Greetings All, the parish registers held by the Hampshire Record Office are available there on microfiche. It is possible to buy copies of them from the HRO. Regards, Anne in Wales ======================================== Message Received: Oct 03 2009, 01:34 PM From: "Vanessa Marshall" To: "Denise Brown" , ISLE-OF-WIGHT@rootsweb.com Cc: Subject: Re: [IoW] Milford on Sea Hello Denise, Milford on Sea Parish Records are held at the Hampshire Record Office: Hampshire Record Office Sussex Street, Winchester, Hampshire SO23 8TH tel 01962 846154, fax 01962 878681 Contact Archives and Local Studies see there website for a full on-line catalogue at http://www3.hants.gov.uk/archives.htm Copies are also held at Lymington Library and New Milton Library. I hope this helps. Vanessa Dorset ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denise Brown" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:05 AM Subject: [IoW] Milford on Sea > Hello Francis > > This is further to your email to the Digest on 22/9/09 with your > subject FUQUET and part of the message was re your 6 g-gf's brother > married at Milford -on-Sea - well now over to my question. > > I have suspicion that my 3 times g grandfather (Henry PAGE) was born > at Milford-on-Sea in approximately 1788 then possibly moved to IOW > (just across the way) and married there etc etc. How can I get > access to any BDM's to this parish? Can anyone help on this inquiry? > > Kind regards, > Denise B > Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia - denise@lighthouseelectrical.com

Dear Anne, In Dorset they are definitely seperate surnames found in different areas of the county, but I can see how one could be a corruption of the other when said, especially with a local accent. Ancestry has the following baptisms listed: Name: Rosanna DAW Gender: Female Birth Date: abt 1781 Christening Date: 1 Jul 1781 Christening Place: Frampton, Dorset, England Father's Name: William Daw Mother's Name: Mary Source BIVRI 2nd Ed Name: Rose DAW Gender: Female Birth Date: abt 1782 Christening Date: 24 Oct 1782 Christening Place: Charminster, Dorset, England Father's Name: Thomas Daw Mother's Name: Ann Source - BIVRI 2nd Ed Stephen / Chris - I don't know if these help, but I can't find any other Rose / Rosina / Rosena /Rosannas etc. in any other counties which may be her. It might be worth keeeping these for later reference if needed. Vanessa Dorset ----- Original Message ----- From: <anne@celliddu.freeserve.co.uk> To: "Stephen Shafer" <shpcount@earthlink.net>; <Isle-of-Wight@rootsweb.com> Cc: <chriscjbartlett@hotmail.com> Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [IoW] DAW, Rosina married 1802 at Alverstoke > Greetings All, > are DAW and DORE the same name? > Anne in Wales > > > > > > ======================================== > Message Received: Oct 01 2009, 05:16 PM > From: "Stephen Shafer" > To: Isle-of-Wight@rootsweb.com > Cc: chriscjbartlett@hotmail.com > Subject: [IoW] DAW, Rosina married 1802 at Alverstoke > > > Hello, I am trying to find the parents and perhaps grandparents of my > ancestor Rosina DAW who married Richard Shackle in 1802 at Alverstoke. The > couple's children, at least some of them, were baptized at St Thomas, > Portsmouth circa 1809-1813. Their grandson, John Alexander CREAL, b. 1850 > kept the Eagle Tavern in the Isle of Wight. For that reason, and because > of the many DAWs found in the IOW, I think Rosina may have been born on > IOW or had ancestors from there before moving to the mainland. > > Any advice will be appreciated. This is ccd to my cousin in the UK who is > working on the same family, CREAL. > > Stephen Shafer > New York

Hello Sharon, thank you for all those suggestions. I shall keep a note have a go next time I'm looking at headstones. regards, Eve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon" <MamaGull@yahoo.com> To: <Isle-of-Wight-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [IoW] Memorial inscriptions Carisbrooke church St Mary Hi Eve Like Ian, I have found excellent success with taking a rubbing of headstones. When I'm doing cemetery research, part of my kit is a roll of paper, masking tape, a natural bristle brush, scissors and a box of the crayons sized for little hands - the crayons are nearly a half inch in diameter. The paper I use is the heavier brown shipping type as it resists tearing. The brush (used with a very judicious amount of pressure) is excellent for removing moss or other growth. Then I wrap the marker with the paper, and tape it in place. Holding the crayon sideways so that the entire length lies on the paper, I start rubbing. You'll be amazed at the detail that comes up! I've found that using the crayon held as a pencil is okay for fine details, but care must be taken not to do so with enough pressure that you tear the paper. Once done, I record the name/place of the cemetery, the date and if possible the location of the marker within the cemetery on the end of the paper. Then roll it into a tube so that the identifying notes are visible, snap a rubber band or two over to hold it together. Take photographs of the marker, then back up and get area photos so that if you ever want to go back, or you want to give directions to someone else, you can send them the photos to act as a map. I was doing research in a long-abandoned family plot in the woods of New Hampshire where the older markers were of a soft type of stone, and erosion had washed areas of the engraving away. Stones that had been lying on the ground, some broken into pieces, were the hardest to read. But when I took rubbings of them I was able to lift near-perfect images. One in particular had been a very tall marker and when it had fallen it had fractured into 7 or 8 large pieces. After arranging them on the uneven ground and carefully working my way over them I had a rubbing that had details that didn't show up in photos at all. Knee pads come in handy for work in this sort of situation! Good luck - Sharon Life is what happens while you are making other plans.

War of the roses or not, at least now we may better understand why the stocks were once so popular. All that pent up hatred could actually be turned into violence used to actually hurt the victim. Having very narrowly missed a lynching, it seems now that only the virtual nature of the internet is saving Roy from an obviously long and hurtful time in the stocks. Judged, condemned and committed, all without fair trial! Thank goodness that civilisation has progressed since then; or has it? Read the apparently offending quote again and ask yourselves if it really warrants such a violent reaction? "Frankly, I find it slightly astonishing that anyone even needs to ask the question. Haven't some listers here ever read a book on how to trace their family history or look at internet websites that give this kind of information readily?" It seems to me that Roy was never as offensive as those who have attacked him. Mark Urry France Researching URRY & BASTIANI

Hello from Rosina's g-g-g-grandson. Lookups by you in ancestry made me take another dip therein. There were quite a few Daws being baptized in the southern half of England around 1780 !! Of interest is one Richard Daw who had three children baptized 1779-1782 at St Helen's (IOW), Hampshire. They were Richard, William and Mary Ann. No Rosina listed. That "my" Rosina Daw named one of her daughters Mary Ann (my g-g-grandmother) , however, merits a further look Any suggestions on how to do that? Might there be a parish registry that would have Rosina if she were a sib of the others even though she is not in the national BMD index? Also, under what circumstances was a child baptized with only the father named? Could this mean the mother was not of that church and refused to come? Could it mean she was herself not baptized and was therefore considered unqualified to be listed? I can see widowerhood to explain one baptism without mother named, but not three over four years. Thanks, Stephen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vanessa Marshall" <van.m@o2.co.uk> To: <anne@celliddu.freeserve.co.uk>; <shpcount@earthlink.net>; <Isle-of-Wight@rootsweb.com> Cc: <chriscjbartlett@hotmail.com> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 4:31 PM Subject: Re: [IoW] DAW, Rosina married 1802 at Alverstoke > Dear Anne, > > In Dorset they are definitely seperate surnames found in different areas > of the county, but I can see how one could be a corruption of the other > when said, especially with a local accent. > > Ancestry has the following baptisms listed: > > Name: Rosanna DAW > Gender: Female > Birth Date: abt 1781 > Christening Date: 1 Jul 1781 > Christening Place: Frampton, Dorset, England > Father's Name: William Daw > Mother's Name: Mary > > > Source BIVRI 2nd Ed > > Name: Rose DAW > Gender: Female > Birth Date: abt 1782 > Christening Date: 24 Oct 1782 > Christening Place: Charminster, Dorset, England > Father's Name: Thomas Daw > Mother's Name: Ann > > > Source - BIVRI 2nd Ed > > Stephen / Chris - I don't know if these help, but I can't find any other > Rose / Rosina / Rosena /Rosannas etc. in any other counties which may be > her. It might be worth keeeping these for later reference if needed. > > Vanessa > Dorset > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <anne@celliddu.freeserve.co.uk> > To: "Stephen Shafer" <shpcount@earthlink.net>; > <Isle-of-Wight@rootsweb.com> > Cc: <chriscjbartlett@hotmail.com> > Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 6:12 PM > Subject: Re: [IoW] DAW, Rosina married 1802 at Alverstoke > > >> Greetings All, >> are DAW and DORE the same name? >> Anne in Wales >> >> >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> Message Received: Oct 01 2009, 05:16 PM >> From: "Stephen Shafer" >> To: Isle-of-Wight@rootsweb.com >> Cc: chriscjbartlett@hotmail.com >> Subject: [IoW] DAW, Rosina married 1802 at Alverstoke >> >> >> Hello, I am trying to find the parents and perhaps grandparents of my >> ancestor Rosina DAW who married Richard Shackle in 1802 at Alverstoke. >> The couple's children, at least some of them, were baptized at St Thomas, >> Portsmouth circa 1809-1813. Their grandson, John Alexander CREAL, b. 1850 >> kept the Eagle Tavern in the Isle of Wight. For that reason, and because >> of the many DAWs found in the IOW, I think Rosina may have been born on >> IOW or had ancestors from there before moving to the mainland. >> >> Any advice will be appreciated. This is ccd to my cousin in the UK who is >> working on the same family, CREAL. >> >> Stephen Shafer >> New York > >

Thank you so much for looking. Neither of these young women is ruled out by spelling, and I will hold them both for later reference, esp if IOW and Hampshire have no hits. Best regards, Stephen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vanessa Marshall" <van.m@o2.co.uk> To: <anne@celliddu.freeserve.co.uk>; <shpcount@earthlink.net>; <Isle-of-Wight@rootsweb.com> Cc: <chriscjbartlett@hotmail.com> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 4:31 PM Subject: Re: [IoW] DAW, Rosina married 1802 at Alverstoke > Dear Anne, > > In Dorset they are definitely seperate surnames found in different areas > of the county, but I can see how one could be a corruption of the other > when said, especially with a local accent. > > Ancestry has the following baptisms listed: > > Name: Rosanna DAW > Gender: Female > Birth Date: abt 1781 > Christening Date: 1 Jul 1781 > Christening Place: Frampton, Dorset, England > Father's Name: William Daw > Mother's Name: Mary > > > Source BIVRI 2nd Ed > > Name: Rose DAW > Gender: Female > Birth Date: abt 1782 > Christening Date: 24 Oct 1782 > Christening Place: Charminster, Dorset, England > Father's Name: Thomas Daw > Mother's Name: Ann > > > Source - BIVRI 2nd Ed > > Stephen / Chris - I don't know if these help, but I can't find any other > Rose / Rosina / Rosena /Rosannas etc. in any other counties which may be > her. It might be worth keeeping these for later reference if needed. > > Vanessa > Dorset > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <anne@celliddu.freeserve.co.uk> > To: "Stephen Shafer" <shpcount@earthlink.net>; > <Isle-of-Wight@rootsweb.com> > Cc: <chriscjbartlett@hotmail.com> > Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 6:12 PM > Subject: Re: [IoW] DAW, Rosina married 1802 at Alverstoke > > >> Greetings All, >> are DAW and DORE the same name? >> Anne in Wales >> >> >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> Message Received: Oct 01 2009, 05:16 PM >> From: "Stephen Shafer" >> To: Isle-of-Wight@rootsweb.com >> Cc: chriscjbartlett@hotmail.com >> Subject: [IoW] DAW, Rosina married 1802 at Alverstoke >> >> >> Hello, I am trying to find the parents and perhaps grandparents of my >> ancestor Rosina DAW who married Richard Shackle in 1802 at Alverstoke. >> The couple's children, at least some of them, were baptized at St Thomas, >> Portsmouth circa 1809-1813. Their grandson, John Alexander CREAL, b. 1850 >> kept the Eagle Tavern in the Isle of Wight. For that reason, and because >> of the many DAWs found in the IOW, I think Rosina may have been born on >> IOW or had ancestors from there before moving to the mainland. >> >> Any advice will be appreciated. This is ccd to my cousin in the UK who is >> working on the same family, CREAL. >> >> Stephen Shafer >> New York > >

Thank you, Vanessa. This sort of information, which we have probably long forgotten from our schooldays, is very helpful. The history I learnt was rather concentrated and so did not cover such a lengthy period of time. Regards, Anne in Wales ======================================== Message Received: Oct 03 2009, 12:47 PM From: "Vanessa Marshall" To: "Roy Stockdill" , isle-of-wight@rootsweb.com Cc: Subject: Re: [IoW] Roy Stockdill's comments. I haven't replied to any of the comments recently posted about Mariage cert / fathers and further ongoing arguments about family history versus geneaology as it is all rather petty, but am now infuriated thet Roy Stockdill is changing History!! I don't claim any particular wisdom either but having a love for early buildings, especially Tudor ones - I felt I had to comment... The Tudor rose was a combination of The York emblem (White rose and goes back to Edward IV (1461 - 14830) and the Lancasterian Emblem (Red Rose taken on by the Lancasterians at the Battle of Bosworth in recognition of supporting the descendents of John of Gaunt (Ist Duke of Lancaster via his son Henry IV (Bollingbrooke ), whose family emblem it was, The two roses were combined when Henry Tudor (a Lancastarian) married Elizabeth of York in 1486 after the Battle of Bosworth (1485). There are many examples all over Tudor buildings famous ones such as Hampton Court, Anne Boleyn's Gate etc. which were built long before Shakespeare was born!! There are also ones engraved on the cannons of the Mary Rose which sank in 1545, not to be seen again by divers until 1966! The Great Hall at Winchester was also 'adorned' with Tudor Roses by a young Henry VIII for a visit by the Charles V the Holy Roman Emperor, So it had happened 'in real life' before the Bard (1564 - 1592)! It is possible that Shakespeare took the details and enhanced them (as he was known to do) after performing at Hampton Court in 1603 or in one of the other great houses of the time as it was the custom to have the roses engraved everywhere to show support for the Tudors and especialy Henry VIII - a king you did not want to displease! Please get your facts correct before making such statements!! Vanessa Dorset (much of which was owned by John of Gaunt and also has some fine examples of early english and tudor roses in lesser known tudor buildings such as Hooke Court) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Stockdill" To: Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [IoW] Joy On 27 Sep 2009 at 19:39, Joy Langdon wrote: > I don't claim any knowledge or wisdom but Roy has said he values > attention to detail and hates it if anyone gets anything wrong about > genealogy so I knew he wouldn't want to continue telling people that > they were misquoting Shakespeare when they were actually quoting > Homer. Sorry if that makes me lacking in humility, I thought I was > being helpful! > Joy was quite correct! I had forgotten that Shakespeare plagiarised the saying from someone else and if she says it was Homer I am sure she's right. But, then, Shakespeare was never averse to a bit of plagiarism - just like Oscar Wilde. As a Yorkshireman, I happen to believe that it was The Bard who also invented the myth of the Roses, Lancashire red, Yorkshire white, in Henry VI Part 1. In real life it never happened until Shakespeare dreamed it up. We should always remember he was a dramatist and not a historian. -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE ************************************** You can contact the Isle of Wight List Administrator by emailing: Isle-of-Wight-Admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ISLE-OF-WIGHT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ************************************** You can contact the Isle of Wight List Administrator by emailing: Isle-of-Wight-Admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ISLE-OF-WIGHT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message