Until the day breaks and the shadows flee away A Noble wife and mother Louisa Winifred JARMAN Who was called to higher service June 23rd 1920 in her 61st Year Good was her life and in friendship sound Patient with pain and loved all around Her Pains are over, her suffering done A life everlasting joy, she's now begun Also of John Isaac JARMAN Dearly beloved husband of the above November 9th 1941 aged 88 years Re united.

Hello list I have some of the sets of KFHS fiches of the registers of St John the Baptist. A number of the images are impossible to read, I presume that the original registers had faded. I have seen Barry White's transcriptions, can anyone tell me how complete they are? His files make no mention of the problem but it's a little difficult to check whether he has the missing entries if you don't know what they are! Thanks Colin Moretti I'm a member of the Anglo-Italian Family History Society http://www.anglo-italianfhs.org.uk Looking for MORETTI, PAGLIANO, BARGMAN, FORSE in London CADWELL in Huntingdonshire, TARRY in Buckinghamshire McQUOIN GRANT and PAY in Margate

Hell list John GRANT married Susannah PAY on 17 January 1823. I know that there are at least three John Grants who appear in the later baptism registers as fathers - that's not a problem, I've managed to determine that mine's the mariner. 1834, page 283, no 2262 July 6, Walter Frederick, son of John & Susannah Grant, Margate, Tailor [plus other children] 1835, page 11, no 86 July 19 Susannah, daughter of John and Susannah Grant, Margate, Mariner and various children of John & Elizabeth Grant, gentleman or mariner Unfortunately I've found baptism enties for two John GRANTs, presumably there should be a third somewhere; does anyone have any idea which might be which? John, son of Robert and Rachael Grant, born 2 July, baptised 30 July 1809 John, son of John and Christian Grant, born 19 Sep 1808, baptised 12 Mar 1809 Being born less that a year apart it would be difficult enough to distinguish between them if I had census returns, unfortunately I've not been able to find "my" John Grant in any census. It may be that he was at sea, he was described variously as "mariner" or "shipwright" on birth & baptism records. I don't even know when he died. Any suggestions or assistance would be much appreciated Colin Moretti I'm a member of the Anglo-Italian Family History Society http://www.anglo-italianfhs.org.uk Looking for MORETTI, PAGLIANO, BARGMAN, FORSE in London CADWELL in Huntingdonshire, TARRY in Buckinghamshire McQUOIN GRANT in Margate

What are you looking to find out about Archibald? Parents, origin? Do you have a date of birth and what is his death date from the certificate. I will try to help and It may be easier to email each other off list. Regards Suzannah ----- Original Message ----- From: frank hackett To: Isle-of-Thanet-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 5:24 PM Subject: [IoT] Scott Family Hi Suzannah. I wonder if you can give advice about a how to go about finding out about Cecil Archibald Scott, A painter and decorator (journeyman) whose address on the death certificate was 6 Nash Road Margate, aged 66 He died in Gravel Pit House, Faversham, His widow Annie Elizabeth Scott registered the death, but her address on the certificate was 14 Tonstall Road, Mitcham Surrey, Regards Yvonne fh004e1846@blueyonder.co.uk -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/406 - Release Date: 02/08/2006

Hi Suzannah. I wonder if you can give advice about a how to go about finding out about Cecil Archibald Scott, A painter and decorator (journeyman) whose address on the death certificate was 6 Nash Road Margate, aged 66 He died in Gravel Pit House, Faversham, His widow Annie Elizabeth Scott registered the death, but her address on the certificate was 14 Tonstall Road, Mitcham Surrey, Regards Yvonne fh004e1846@blueyonder.co.uk -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/406 - Release Date: 02/08/2006

If you are uncertain of the year of travel or ship name just put in the surname and it will give you every passanger by that name in the record collection. Some people are listed as Mr, Mrs, Master or Miss and infant or just an initial therefore surname search is best as you can then pick out all the family by reading the ship name. Then armed with the ref details you can view the fiche at all the LDS family history rooms and gene societies and many local library have gene records available here (Aus) too. U.K. would have similar. These fiche do not need to be ordered in because they are part of the records owned by each centre. I always photocopy the first page of the book I am interested in as it names the ship& Master, dept. port & date and arrival port. Other info pertaining to your person can include trade or profession and whether English, Scottish or Irish. When you read to the end of the book you will get a report on what the voyage was like ie weather conditions and if anybody was born or died at sea. http://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/PROVguides/PROVguide023/PROVguide023.jsp This is a list of on line records held by the Public Records Office Victoria http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/indexes_online_3357.asp#Immigration This is the address for State Records New South Wales and has similar online databases inc. details of convict records. http://www.coraweb.com.au/shipsite.htm Cora has lots of links for all sorts of goodies. Hope this helps. Have fun Ann in Brisbane ----- Original Message ----- From: <Bingmbing@aol.com> To: <Isle-of-Thanet-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 3:38 AM Subject: [IoT] Unassisted immigration to Victoria, Australia >I came across the following website which someone might find useful. It > produced 39 people with our surname, and gives forename, age, month and > year of > immigration, ship, and port; plus number of fiche and page for those who > can > visit that record office. > > Index of Inward Passenger Lists for British, Foreign and New Zealand ports > 1852-1923. > The Public Record Office, Victoria > _http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=23_ > (http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=23) > There's no space between ? and searchid. > > If you have variant spellings in your surname, use asterisk in the search > box, eg B*ng* would cover Bing, Binge, Byng, Beinge etc. > Madie > > >

Thank you to all who have sent the details below. I think I have enough to send him now. Thanks again Suzannah ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Nethersole To: Isle-of-Thanet-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 3:25 PM Subject: RE: [IoT] Can you help with Plane Crash? Hi Suzannah Little more info to the email below - the pilot was also killed as well as the 3 civilians - pilot was USAF Captain Fogerty. The aircraft was a F84E Thunderstreak. This info from the book "History of RAF Manston 1916 - 1986" by Rocky Stockman (RAF Fl Lt) Paul -----Original Message----- From: LAWRENCE BRIDGER [mailto:laurie.bridger@btinternet.com] Sent: 31 July 2006 14:44 To: Isle-of-Thanet-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IoT] Can you help with Plane Crash? Hi Suzannah, When I saw this request in last weeks Isle of Thanet Gazette I was surprised with all the archived papers they hold that they did not know about this crash. But reflecting on it, time passes so quickly and I guess there aren't any old timers still working there who remember this. On Sunday 27th April 1952 an American Thunderjet from Manston crashed on Lloyds Bank and the ironmongers at the corner of Ranalagh Grove and the High Street. Most books containing old pictures of St Peters have a photo, including 'Early Broadstairs and St Peters' by Barrie Wootton. The death toll at 3 was reckoned to be low because the vicar of St Peters was giving a longer sermon than usual and the people were still in the church. Laurie Bridger

Hi Suzannah Little more info to the email below - the pilot was also killed as well as the 3 civilians - pilot was USAF Captain Fogerty. The aircraft was a F84E Thunderstreak. This info from the book "History of RAF Manston 1916 - 1986" by Rocky Stockman (RAF Fl Lt) Paul -----Original Message----- From: LAWRENCE BRIDGER [mailto:laurie.bridger@btinternet.com] Sent: 31 July 2006 14:44 To: Isle-of-Thanet-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IoT] Can you help with Plane Crash? Hi Suzannah, When I saw this request in last weeks Isle of Thanet Gazette I was surprised with all the archived papers they hold that they did not know about this crash. But reflecting on it, time passes so quickly and I guess there aren't any old timers still working there who remember this. On Sunday 27th April 1952 an American Thunderjet from Manston crashed on Lloyds Bank and the ironmongers at the corner of Ranalagh Grove and the High Street. Most books containing old pictures of St Peters have a photo, including 'Early Broadstairs and St Peters' by Barrie Wootton. The death toll at 3 was reckoned to be low because the vicar of St Peters was giving a longer sermon than usual and the people were still in the church. Laurie Bridger

Hi Suzannah, When I saw this request in last weeks Isle of Thanet Gazette I was surprised with all the archived papers they hold that they did not know about this crash. But reflecting on it, time passes so quickly and I guess there aren't any old timers still working there who remember this. On Sunday 27th April 1952 an American Thunderjet from Manston crashed on Lloyds Bank and the ironmongers at the corner of Ranalagh Grove and the High Street. Most books containing old pictures of St Peters have a photo, including 'Early Broadstairs and St Peters' by Barrie Wootton. The death toll at 3 was reckoned to be low because the vicar of St Peters was giving a longer sermon than usual and the people were still in the church. Laurie Bridger

I came across the following website which someone might find useful. It produced 39 people with our surname, and gives forename, age, month and year of immigration, ship, and port; plus number of fiche and page for those who can visit that record office. Index of Inward Passenger Lists for British, Foreign and New Zealand ports 1852-1923. The Public Record Office, Victoria _http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=23_ (http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=23) There's no space between ? and searchid. If you have variant spellings in your surname, use asterisk in the search box, eg B*ng* would cover Bing, Binge, Byng, Beinge etc. Madie

Chris Campbell from Elgin Morayshire is asking if anyone can help with information on on air crash that may have taken place in St Peter's. He said "My wife was a child of about 9 when she says she saw the following event. "It occured on a Sunday but all she can remember about the date is that it was between 1950 and 1952 when she was living in St Peter's. The aircraft crashed near St Peter's and she saw it come down which naturally enough scared her out of the house." " I am an amateur Aviation historian but my field of concern is the RAF and I cover the whole period from 1939 until now. All I could tell her is that there were no RAF incidents in that area over those three years but it sounds like it may have been a USA aircraft from nearby Manston." If you could help, please let me know and I will forward on the information Suzannah

My thanks to those of you who sent such helpful emails over the past week or so. There have been some good suggestions for information sources that I can pursue, so I shall be doing my best to sniff out the whereabouts of Grove Cottages in the next few weeks. Regards ... Michele

On Tue, 2006-25-07 at 09:23 +0100, Michele Morris wrote: > I wonder if anyone in this forum can help, please. My great grandfather, > Edward Streatfield, appears to have run a market gardening business at > Cliffs End in the 1920s. His wife, Agnes Streatfield's 1928 death > certificate gives her place of residence as Cliffs End Farm, St. Lawrence > Extra. The death certificate is also quite clear that one son, Roberts > French Streatfield is living at 2 Grove Cottages, Cliffsend, Ramsgate. I > have found a web site that has some parish record extracts for St. Lawrence > church in Ramsgate. There I found the baptisms of two of Walter > Streatfield's children in 1925 and 1929. He was living at 1 Grove Cottages, > Cliffs End, St; Lawrence. So it would seem that the two brothers are living > next door to each other in Grove Cottages at Cliffs End. Now the puzzle is, > where exactly were Grove Cottages? > > I have done some research to try and locate these cottages. A fellow member > of the Kent Family History Society, who grew up in Cliffs End in the 1930s, > is not aware of there being any such cottages at Cliffs End, although he was > familiar with Cliffs End Farm. I cannot find the cottages on the modern OS > map and the 1877 OS map online does not list them,. In addition, Cliffs End > Farm appears to have been called Bethlehem Farm in 1877. The cottages do not > appear in the 1901 census for St. Lawrence Extra. Kelly's 1930 directory > does not give me any useful clues, though my great grandfather's business is > listed as Edward Streatfield and sons, Cliffs End, Ramsgate. I have tried > searching for Grove Cottages at the current Post Office web site but cannot > find them. It is possible that they may no longer exist, since the village > appears to have undergone considerable development. > > The local history resources of Ramsgate Library are in boxes after the fire > they had a while ago, so they couldn't help. The Centre for Kentish Studies > drew a blank and were unable to suggest any likely sources. I am waiting > from a reply from the Ramsgate Society, but they implied it could be a very > long wait. Does anyone here know of the cottages or can think of any other > likely sources to consult? > > Regards ... Michele Morris Hi Michelle, There is a Cliffs End Gr(ove?) on the modern map between Foads Lane and Sandwich Road: http://streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=634224&y=164426&z=1&sv=634224,164426&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&ax=634224&ay=164426 Could this be where Grove Cottages were sometime after 1878? I have failed to find a more modern map than 1877/8. -- John Bartlett <bart34@shaw.ca>

I wonder if anyone in this forum can help, please. My great grandfather, Edward Streatfield, appears to have run a market gardening business at Cliffs End in the 1920s. His wife, Agnes Streatfield's 1928 death certificate gives her place of residence as Cliffs End Farm, St. Lawrence Extra. The death certificate is also quite clear that one son, Roberts French Streatfield is living at 2 Grove Cottages, Cliffsend, Ramsgate. I have found a web site that has some parish record extracts for St. Lawrence church in Ramsgate. There I found the baptisms of two of Walter Streatfield's children in 1925 and 1929. He was living at 1 Grove Cottages, Cliffs End, St; Lawrence. So it would seem that the two brothers are living next door to each other in Grove Cottages at Cliffs End. Now the puzzle is, where exactly were Grove Cottages? I have done some research to try and locate these cottages. A fellow member of the Kent Family History Society, who grew up in Cliffs End in the 1930s, is not aware of there being any such cottages at Cliffs End, although he was familiar with Cliffs End Farm. I cannot find the cottages on the modern OS map and the 1877 OS map online does not list them,. In addition, Cliffs End Farm appears to have been called Bethlehem Farm in 1877. The cottages do not appear in the 1901 census for St. Lawrence Extra. Kelly's 1930 directory does not give me any useful clues, though my great grandfather's business is listed as Edward Streatfield and sons, Cliffs End, Ramsgate. I have tried searching for Grove Cottages at the current Post Office web site but cannot find them. It is possible that they may no longer exist, since the village appears to have undergone considerable development. The local history resources of Ramsgate Library are in boxes after the fire they had a while ago, so they couldn't help. The Centre for Kentish Studies drew a blank and were unable to suggest any likely sources. I am waiting from a reply from the Ramsgate Society, but they implied it could be a very long wait. Does anyone here know of the cottages or can think of any other likely sources to consult? Regards ... Michele Morris

Interesting article http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/content/articles/2006/05/15/thanet_isle_of_death_feature.shtml

& yet an earlier one in Mocketts Journal for 1786. John Ansell of the Parish of St Peters, residing at a cottage called Sacketts Hill, near Margate, was murdered on his road from that place, where he had been drinking with CHARLES TWYMAN & others. on 2nd April, to a late hour, & was found by some persons who carried him home. A great hue & cry was made after CHARLES TWYMAN, but he was never taken, consequently he has escaped justice, (1836). His house was searched the next morning, & it has been conjectured that he was in the closet at the time, but his distressed wife leaning against the door, they did not remove her. If therefor, he was there, it led to his escape. Ansell was burried in St Peters Churchyard on 9th April. Tony Euden ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzannah Foad" <suzannah.foad@btopenworld.com> To: <Isle-of-Thanet-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: [IoT] Those Pesky TWYMAN's Yet again! > 14th February 1880 Kebel's Gazette > > Malicious Assault > Walter TWYMAN, a boy, was charged with assaulting a girl named CRIMPS - > Defendant pleaded guilty and prosecutrix stated that she received three > blows on the chest from the defendant, when separating him and others from > fighting. These blows made her very ill all the next day. Superintendent > ROMANIS gave the boy a very bad character, they had a great many complaints > against him. The Bench inflicted a fine of 1 shilling, with seven shillings > costs, or in default seven days in prison. They warned him about his > conduct. > > 8th March 1902 > > Her Eight Appearance > Lily TWYMAN was charged with being drunk and incapable in Stanley Road at > an early hour on Wednesday Morning, and pleaded that she was guilty and very > sorry. P.Sgt BINNIE deposed that at 12.10 that morning he found the > defendant lying helplessly drunk and fast asleep on the footway. He procured > the assistance of P.C. MINTER, and by that time the defendant had rolled > into the gutter, where she was still sleeping soundly. He took her to the > Police Station on a barow. Chief Constable CLEGG said this was defendants > eighth appearance at Margate, besides several times in Ramsgate. She had > been taken in hand by Miss Smart, who found a home for her, but she ran away > from it. The Mayor said defendant always expressed sorrow but did not seem > to mend her ways. She was fined 10 shillings and 5 shillings costs with an > alternative of 10 days imprisonment. Time for payment was refused. > > 3rd November 1906 > > A Local Pest > Walter TWYMAN, of no fixed abode was charged with sleeping out without > visable means of subsistence, and the charge, which is only one of the many > against the defendant, was accentuated by the fact that his son, Walter > Henry Georeg TWYMAN, was similarily charged. P.C.ARTHUR staed that at 2.10 > on Monday morning he found the prisoner and his son sleeping in a store in > Fort Road, belonging to Messrs Cobb and Co. The elder prisoner had nothing > upon him, but his son had 4d in his possession, and his clothing, such as it > was, was falling off him. The Chairman of the Bench said the father would be > sentenced to a months imprisonment with hard labour, and the son would be > discharged. The Bench regretted to say it appeared the man was bringing up > his son in his own objectionable ways, and that in time he would make him as > big a vagabond as himself. If he (the father) came up before them again he > would most probaly be dealt with under the Vagrancy Act, and be sent to the > Quarter Sessions for trial. > > > >

14th February 1880 Kebel's Gazette Malicious Assault Walter TWYMAN, a boy, was charged with assaulting a girl named CRIMPS - Defendant pleaded guilty and prosecutrix stated that she received three blows on the chest from the defendant, when separating him and others from fighting. These blows made her very ill all the next day. Superintendent ROMANIS gave the boy a very bad character, they had a great many complaints against him. The Bench inflicted a fine of 1 shilling, with seven shillings costs, or in default seven days in prison. They warned him about his conduct. 8th March 1902 Her Eight Appearance Lily TWYMAN was charged with being drunk and incapable in Stanley Road at an early hour on Wednesday Morning, and pleaded that she was guilty and very sorry. P.Sgt BINNIE deposed that at 12.10 that morning he found the defendant lying helplessly drunk and fast asleep on the footway. He procured the assistance of P.C. MINTER, and by that time the defendant had rolled into the gutter, where she was still sleeping soundly. He took her to the Police Station on a barow. Chief Constable CLEGG said this was defendants eighth appearance at Margate, besides several times in Ramsgate. She had been taken in hand by Miss Smart, who found a home for her, but she ran away from it. The Mayor said defendant always expressed sorrow but did not seem to mend her ways. She was fined 10 shillings and 5 shillings costs with an alternative of 10 days imprisonment. Time for payment was refused. 3rd November 1906 A Local Pest Walter TWYMAN, of no fixed abode was charged with sleeping out without visable means of subsistence, and the charge, which is only one of the many against the defendant, was accentuated by the fact that his son, Walter Henry Georeg TWYMAN, was similarily charged. P.C.ARTHUR staed that at 2.10 on Monday morning he found the prisoner and his son sleeping in a store in Fort Road, belonging to Messrs Cobb and Co. The elder prisoner had nothing upon him, but his son had 4d in his possession, and his clothing, such as it was, was falling off him. The Chairman of the Bench said the father would be sentenced to a months imprisonment with hard labour, and the son would be discharged. The Bench regretted to say it appeared the man was bringing up his son in his own objectionable ways, and that in time he would make him as big a vagabond as himself. If he (the father) came up before them again he would most probaly be dealt with under the Vagrancy Act, and be sent to the Quarter Sessions for trial.

The show goes on....... An Exhibition about Westgate residents who lost their lives in the Somme has been extended to 29th July as it has proved so popular. The show at St Saviour's Church in St Mildred's Road has attracted a huge interest and Curator Dr Dawn Crouch has had current residents add information on their own relatives who were involved in the conflict.

Any Ovenden Researchers have connection with George and Amy Cole? ----- Original Message ----- From: Howard Wigner To: suzannah.foad@btopenworld.com Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 12:35 PM Subject: Ovenden family Hi Suzannah. My Gt Gt Grandfather was George Ovenden, baptised 16/08/1789 Birchington, married Amey Cole 12/10/1811 at St Johns Margate. They had three daughters, and by 1841 had moved to Hackney (E London) where he practised as an Architect and Surveyor. Also Amey must have died circa 1825, and he remarried Jane about 1828 and had two sons. He and Jane retired to Margate, where he died inn 1860. In London, certainly in 1841,he was a deacon of Maberley Chaple - Independent Dissenters = Methodists - so may be he did not worship at St Johns during his retirement. His youngest daughter - Harriet Louisa - married my Gt Grandfather - Rev J T Wigner - Baptist - in December 1841 at Maberley Chaple. They met in August of that year, when my Gt Grandfather was asking for a contribution to his church develpoment in Kings Lynn. The Ovenden family seems to have been well represented at St Johns during the 1700s although George's father Richard brought up his family at Birchington, Anything you can tell about George and Amey Cole, their marriage and following, or his education or profession, and what he did in retirement with Jane, would be wonderful. Please let me know if I am being troublesome, but thanks for reading this. God bless Howard

Dear list I too would be delighted if anyone strolling in Minster graveyard in this lovely sunny weather happens to notice a PIDDUCK grave, could they please let me have info. Thanks a lot Sandra Ager