Hi Listers, Anyone searching for David TURNER c1824 MARGATE will find, on 1851 census, that MARGATE has been transcribed as MAYGATE. The family are living at Malt Lane, STOKE-ON-TRENT, Staffordshire in 1851 & consists of:- David TURNER 27 Ag Lab born MARGATE Caroline TURNER 24 born STAFFORDSHIRE David TURNER 1 born STAFFORDSHIRE We are NOT researching the TURNER name. Good Luck, Norma & MIck

I have some Culmers - but not quite such illustrious ones - if you want to swap information. Sheila -----Original Message----- From: isle-of-thanet-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:isle-of-thanet-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of isle-of-thanet-request@rootsweb.com Sent: 23 November 2006 08:02 To: isle-of-thanet@rootsweb.com Subject: ISLE-OF-THANET Digest, Vol 1, Issue 72 Today's Topics: 1. SS Austin and Gregory in Margate (Suzannah Foad) 2. Culmer (Suzannah Foad) 3. Re: CULMER & PHILPOT (E. E. Clark) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 12:52:25 -0000 From: "Suzannah Foad" <suzannah.foad@btopenworld.com> Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] SS Austin and Gregory in Margate To: <isle-of-thanet-l@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <002301c70e35$10c574e0$5c728351@YOUR22239C3023> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Dear Bernie, Found an article about the church in Bygone Kent Suzannah Bygone Kent Volume 6 Number 29 Page 515 Restitution and Renewal - Some Roman Catholic Churches in Kent Part Two By Martin Tapsell Thanet -. SS Austin and Gregory in Margate built on the Victoria Road site in 1803. Originally a 100 seat oblong hall, this gained an adjacent School in 1863. The original tower and a Lady Chapel came in 1866. The church was given over to the Benedictines in 1887 and the present high tower and new aisle were built. The former presbytery became the sanctuary in 1890 while he priest moved to an adjacent cottage until this was replaced in 1894. Another side aisle was opened in the front of the Scared Heart altar. A Chapel to St Joseph opened in 1897. The new organ put in at the same time was moved to the clerestory at the side, allowing more light through the window at the east end. This move took place in 1935 but the organ wore out in the 1970's and has an electronic successor. Today's stone screen replaced a wooden one in 1935. The original door opened straight out on the busy road, but now opens into a small courtyard sideways to the tower. back in Diocesan care from 1966, the parish was then losing population in redevelopment. The former Sacred Heart Chapel immediately inside was converted into a hall, with the sacristy at the far end. A Frosted glass partition separates it from the main church. Once again, in 2005, an ambitious programme of renovation is ongoing, larger items being new heating (?22,000) and woodworm treatment (?10,320) and much else besides. Brown's, Organ builders, took away the disused organ and there has been a striking lighting project to highlight focal points like the St Joseph Altar, as recommended by a light consultant. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Tuffs To: ISLE-OF-THANET@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 8:25 PM Subject: [SPAM] [ISLE-OF-THANET] searching for info... Hi! I'm searching for information about our Church - SS. Austin & Gregory R.C. Church, Victoria Road Margate. It is over 200 years old and has apparently never been Consecrated. The Archbishop is coming on 4th November to do this, and I have been charged with the task of making a photographic (with some written info!) history of the Church. There was once a school on the land next to the Church...St. Austins??? If anyone is able to give me any info for any period, or share photos, or just point me in the right direction to find this, I would be very grateful - I've googled for hours and found nothing so far! Thanks in advance! Bernadette R M Tuffs brmt@supanet.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:31:23 -0000 From: "Suzannah Foad" <suzannah.foad@btopenworld.com> Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] Culmer To: <barbara_callcott@yahoo.com.au> Cc: isle-of-thanet-l@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <003201c70e4b$46a764e0$5c728351@YOUR22239C3023> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I think you could look through the Isle of Thanet and the Mariner rootsweb Mailing list archives and find a few people also researching this family if you have not been contacted alreday There is a book which could you help you, regarding the main shipbuilding branch of the White family which is David L Williams' book 'White's of Cowes - White's Built, Well Built' publ Silver Link Publishing 1993 ISBN 0 85794 011 3 Some info below found by googling! Good luck Suzannah Reference to the Culmer family is found in the pages of a Thanet history book, Mockett's Journal (1836) by John Mockett (1775~1848). Mention is made by Mockett of the will of a Richard Culmer, a carpenter in 1434. Shortly thereafter, in 1440, an archway was built by George Culmer across a track leading down to the sea, where the first wooden pier or jetty was built in 1460. A more enduring structure was to replace this in 1538. The Culmers nestled their boatyard on these protected sands. It was in 1538 that the road leading to the seafront, known as Harbour Street, was cut into the rough chalk ground Broadstairs is built upon. This was accomplished by the local shipwright George Culmer. Going further in defence of the town, he built the York Gate in 1540, a portal that still spans Harbour Street, and which then held two heavy wooden doors that could be closed in times of threat from the sea. By 1795, York Gate needed repair to repel any threat from the French Revolutionary Wars; the subsequent renovation was undertaken by Lord Hanniker in the same year as the first lightship was placed on the Goodwin Sands. A brief outline of the history of Broadstairs Pier is given in Broadstairs, past and present, which mentions a storm in 1767, during which Culmer's work was all but destroyed. At this time it was of considerable importance to the fishing trade with catches as far afield as Yarmouth, Hastings, Folkestone, Dover and Torbay and elsewhere being landed. It had become so indispensable that the Corporations of Yarmouth, Dover, Hythe and Canterbury with assistance from the East India Company and Trinity House subscribed to its restoration with a payment of ?2,000/~ in 1774. Maritime history With the closure of the Culmer-White boatyard at Broadstairs in 1824, boatbuilding operations were transferred to the Isle of Wight where the firm of J. Samuel White became established. It has been suggested that news of the loss of the Irish Packet Royal Adelaide with 250 lives, on the sands off Margate on April 6, 1850, prompted old Thomas White to present one of his lifeboats to his home town of Broadstairs that summer. A ballad was written to celebrate the occasion, Song of the Mary White. The lifeboat saw its first use on March 6, 1851 when the brig Mary White became trapped on the Goodwin Sands during a severe gale blowing from the north. In 1841, 44 mariners were recorded as resident in Broadstairs, nine of these being specified as fishermen, and of course the residual boat-building activity that remained after the Culmer~White yard closed still continued, though there were only four shipwrights recorded in the census: Solomon Holbourn and Joseph Jarman among them. Richard Culmer Sir Richard Culmer ( 1612- 1633) was the eldest son of Sir Henry Culmer (~1574- 1633), the first Baron Culmer . Sir Henry, himself a son of a Henry Culmer, had married Mary Baldwyn in 1602, and was created a Baron by King Charles I in 1630. Richard Culmer was the son of Sir Richard Culmer by his first wife and was born in 1640/1. Richard was buried in the parish church of Monkton, on the Isle of Thanet. Of his legacies was the endowment on Broadstairs of an area of six acres of ground for the poor of the parish. The name survives to this day as 'Culmer's Allotment.' Richard Culmer had been educated at Oxford and established himself as a Puritan Minister of some note. In 1643 Culmer obtained the living of the parish of Chartham , where he soon became unpopular. As a General serving under Oliver Cromwell he became quite notorious, so disliked that the parishioners of Harbledown objected, that so long as it was not Culmer they cared not who ministed unto them. He had been known to have despised William Laud, who had him committed to the Fleet for refusing to read 'the Book of Sports' after his services in Church. Already disliked he delighted in his promotion as a Commissioner to oversee the demolition of superstitious ( Catholic) monuments, and set about his task at Canterbury with enthusiasm, so much so that his parishioners would openly flock to attack him, to the extent that soon he had to carry out his task with Cromwell's Soldier's to protect him. For his services to Parliament he was offered the living of the parish of Minster in Thanet in 1644, where his parishioners had locked the church against him at his ordination, when he attempted to break in to the church he was mobbed and beaten. So despised was he that the parish refused to pay tithes to support him, but then offered his arrears if he would but go away! He later found himself under arrest in London, and asked why he had destroyed the figure of Christ in the Cathedral windows, and not that of the Devil, he merely replied that Parliament's orders were for the removal of the same and made no reference to Satan. Described as 'odious for his zeal and fury' he survived in his position until shortly before the Restoration of Charles II. He had married in 1639 to Miss Beeson, and again twenty years later to a Dutch woman, the widow Mrs. Bocher of Haarlem in Holland, the country in which he died in 1669. From: "Barbara Callcott" <barbara_callcott@yahoo.com.au> To:ISLE-OF-THANET@rootsweb.com Subject:[Isle-of-Thanet] WHITE, CULMER, FENNER, Broadstairs I am new to the list. I am trying to trace my ancestors who were shipbuilders at Broadstairs. Susannah FENNER (abt 1736 to 1822) married in 1754 to John(3) WHITE (1732 - 1801) . John (3) was the son of Mary CULMER (abt 1692 to 1768) married in 1714 to John (2) WHITE (1693 - 1781). I have been told that Susannah FENNER was also descended from CULMERs. I am hoping that someone may be able to help with information about these families and how they are related. Thanks Barbara Callcott ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 12:08:46 -0500 From: "E. E. Clark" <eec06031@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [Isle-of-Thanet] CULMER & PHILPOT To: Suzannah Foad <suzannah.foad@btopenworld.com>, isle-of-thanet@rootsweb.com Cc: barbara_callcott@yahoo.com.au, isle-of-thanet-l@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <4564841E.4060906@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed For some reason that I have yet to figure out, I have a copy of a marriage register entry from St Peter's in Thanet, for Ann CULMER (widow) and Stephen PHILPOT, signed by John PIGOTT, vicar. The copy is dated 1808, but their marriage was in 1781. It was amongst my father's things, but I have no idea if it's anything to do with our family or just that he collected ephemera from Broadstairs and St Peter's. I have sent a scan to one person researching CULMER and if anyone else would like a copy, just let me know. Best wishes Elizabeth Suzannah Foad wrote: >I think you could look through the Isle of Thanet and the Mariner >rootsweb >Mailing list archives and find a few people also researching this family if >you have not been contacted alreday > >There is a book which could you help you, regarding the main >shipbuilding >branch of the White >family which is David L Williams' book 'White's of Cowes - White's Built, >Well Built' publ Silver Link Publishing 1993 ISBN 0 85794 011 3 > >Some info below found by googling! >Good luck >Suzannah > > >Reference to the Culmer family is found in the pages of a Thanet >history >book, Mockett's Journal (1836) by John Mockett (1775~1848). Mention is made >by Mockett of the will of a Richard Culmer, a carpenter in 1434. Shortly >thereafter, in 1440, an archway was built by George Culmer across a track >leading down to the sea, where the first wooden pier or jetty was built in >1460. A more enduring structure was to replace this in 1538. >The Culmers nestled their boatyard on these protected sands. It was in 1538 >that the road leading to the seafront, known as Harbour Street, was cut into >the rough chalk ground Broadstairs is built upon. This was accomplished by >the local shipwright George Culmer. Going further in defence of the town, he >built the York Gate in 1540, a portal that still spans Harbour Street, and >which then held two heavy wooden doors that could be closed in times of >threat from the sea. By 1795, York Gate needed repair to repel any threat >from the French Revolutionary Wars; the subsequent renovation was undertaken >by Lord Hanniker in the same year as the first lightship was placed on the >Goodwin Sands. >A brief outline of the history of Broadstairs Pier is given in Broadstairs, >past and present, which mentions a storm in 1767, during which Culmer's work >was all but destroyed. At this time it was of considerable importance to the >fishing trade with catches as far afield as Yarmouth, Hastings, Folkestone, >Dover and Torbay and elsewhere being landed. It had become so indispensable >that the Corporations of Yarmouth, Dover, Hythe and Canterbury with >assistance from the East India Company and Trinity House subscribed to its >restoration with a payment of ?2,000/~ in 1774. >Maritime history > > >With the closure of the Culmer-White boatyard at Broadstairs in 1824, >boatbuilding operations were transferred to the Isle of Wight where the firm >of J. Samuel White became established. >It has been suggested that news of the loss of the Irish Packet Royal >Adelaide with 250 lives, on the sands off Margate on April 6, 1850, prompted >old Thomas White to present one of his lifeboats to his home town of >Broadstairs that summer. A ballad was written to celebrate the occasion, >Song of the Mary White. The lifeboat saw its first use on March 6, 1851 when >the brig Mary White became trapped on the Goodwin Sands during a severe gale >blowing from the north. >In 1841, 44 mariners were recorded as resident in Broadstairs, nine of these >being specified as fishermen, and of course the residual boat-building >activity that remained after the Culmer~White yard closed still continued, >though there were only four shipwrights recorded in the census: Solomon >Holbourn and Joseph Jarman among them. > > >Richard Culmer >Sir Richard Culmer ( 1612- 1633) was the eldest son of Sir Henry Culmer >(~1574- 1633), the first Baron Culmer . Sir Henry, himself a son of a Henry >Culmer, had married Mary Baldwyn in 1602, and was created a Baron by King >Charles I in 1630. >Richard Culmer was the son of Sir Richard Culmer by his first wife and was >born in 1640/1. Richard was buried in the parish church of Monkton, on the >Isle of Thanet. Of his legacies was the endowment on Broadstairs of an area >of six acres of ground for the poor of the parish. The name survives to this >day as 'Culmer's Allotment.' > >Richard Culmer had been educated at Oxford and established himself as a >Puritan Minister of some note. > >In 1643 Culmer obtained the living of the parish of Chartham , where he >soon >became unpopular. As a General serving under Oliver Cromwell he became quite >notorious, so disliked that the parishioners of Harbledown objected, that so >long as it was not Culmer they cared not who ministed unto them. > >He had been known to have despised William Laud, who had him committed >to >the Fleet for refusing to read 'the Book of Sports' after his services in >Church. > >Already disliked he delighted in his promotion as a Commissioner to >oversee >the demolition of superstitious ( Catholic) monuments, and set about his >task at Canterbury with enthusiasm, so much so that his parishioners would >openly flock to attack him, to the extent that soon he had to carry out his >task with Cromwell's Soldier's to protect him. > >For his services to Parliament he was offered the living of the parish >of >Minster in Thanet in 1644, where his parishioners had locked the church >against him at his ordination, when he attempted to break in to the church >he was mobbed and beaten. So despised was he that the parish refused to pay >tithes to support him, but then offered his arrears if he would but go away! > >He later found himself under arrest in London, and asked why he had >destroyed the figure of Christ in the Cathedral windows, and not that of the >Devil, he merely replied that Parliament's orders were for the removal of >the same and made no reference to Satan. > >Described as 'odious for his zeal and fury' he survived in his position >until shortly before the Restoration of Charles II. > >He had married in 1639 to Miss Beeson, and again twenty years later to >a >Dutch woman, the widow Mrs. Bocher of Haarlem in Holland, the country in >which he died in 1669. > > > >From: "Barbara Callcott" <barbara_callcott@yahoo.com.au> >To:ISLE-OF-THANET@rootsweb.com >Subject:[Isle-of-Thanet] WHITE, CULMER, FENNER, Broadstairs > > >I am new to the list. I am trying to trace my ancestors who were >shipbuilders at Broadstairs. >Susannah FENNER (abt 1736 to 1822) married in 1754 to John(3) WHITE (1732 - >1801) . >John (3) was the son of Mary CULMER (abt 1692 to 1768) married in 1714 to >John (2) WHITE (1693 - 1781). > >I have been told that Susannah FENNER was also descended from CULMERs. >I am hoping that someone may be able to help with information about >these families and how they are related. > >Thanks >Barbara Callcott > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ISLE-OF-THANET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------ To contact the ISLE-OF-THANET list administrator, send an email to ISLE-OF-THANET-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the ISLE-OF-THANET mailing list, send an email to ISLE-OF-THANET@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ISLE-OF-THANET-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of ISLE-OF-THANET Digest, Vol 1, Issue 72 *********************************************

I think you could look through the Isle of Thanet and the Mariner rootsweb Mailing list archives and find a few people also researching this family if you have not been contacted alreday There is a book which could you help you, regarding the main shipbuilding branch of the White family which is David L Williams' book 'White's of Cowes - White's Built, Well Built' publ Silver Link Publishing 1993 ISBN 0 85794 011 3 Some info below found by googling! Good luck Suzannah Reference to the Culmer family is found in the pages of a Thanet history book, Mockett's Journal (1836) by John Mockett (1775~1848). Mention is made by Mockett of the will of a Richard Culmer, a carpenter in 1434. Shortly thereafter, in 1440, an archway was built by George Culmer across a track leading down to the sea, where the first wooden pier or jetty was built in 1460. A more enduring structure was to replace this in 1538. The Culmers nestled their boatyard on these protected sands. It was in 1538 that the road leading to the seafront, known as Harbour Street, was cut into the rough chalk ground Broadstairs is built upon. This was accomplished by the local shipwright George Culmer. Going further in defence of the town, he built the York Gate in 1540, a portal that still spans Harbour Street, and which then held two heavy wooden doors that could be closed in times of threat from the sea. By 1795, York Gate needed repair to repel any threat from the French Revolutionary Wars; the subsequent renovation was undertaken by Lord Hanniker in the same year as the first lightship was placed on the Goodwin Sands. A brief outline of the history of Broadstairs Pier is given in Broadstairs, past and present, which mentions a storm in 1767, during which Culmer's work was all but destroyed. At this time it was of considerable importance to the fishing trade with catches as far afield as Yarmouth, Hastings, Folkestone, Dover and Torbay and elsewhere being landed. It had become so indispensable that the Corporations of Yarmouth, Dover, Hythe and Canterbury with assistance from the East India Company and Trinity House subscribed to its restoration with a payment of £2,000/~ in 1774. Maritime history With the closure of the Culmer-White boatyard at Broadstairs in 1824, boatbuilding operations were transferred to the Isle of Wight where the firm of J. Samuel White became established. It has been suggested that news of the loss of the Irish Packet Royal Adelaide with 250 lives, on the sands off Margate on April 6, 1850, prompted old Thomas White to present one of his lifeboats to his home town of Broadstairs that summer. A ballad was written to celebrate the occasion, Song of the Mary White. The lifeboat saw its first use on March 6, 1851 when the brig Mary White became trapped on the Goodwin Sands during a severe gale blowing from the north. In 1841, 44 mariners were recorded as resident in Broadstairs, nine of these being specified as fishermen, and of course the residual boat-building activity that remained after the Culmer~White yard closed still continued, though there were only four shipwrights recorded in the census: Solomon Holbourn and Joseph Jarman among them. Richard Culmer Sir Richard Culmer ( 1612- 1633) was the eldest son of Sir Henry Culmer (~1574- 1633), the first Baron Culmer . Sir Henry, himself a son of a Henry Culmer, had married Mary Baldwyn in 1602, and was created a Baron by King Charles I in 1630. Richard Culmer was the son of Sir Richard Culmer by his first wife and was born in 1640/1. Richard was buried in the parish church of Monkton, on the Isle of Thanet. Of his legacies was the endowment on Broadstairs of an area of six acres of ground for the poor of the parish. The name survives to this day as 'Culmer's Allotment.' Richard Culmer had been educated at Oxford and established himself as a Puritan Minister of some note. In 1643 Culmer obtained the living of the parish of Chartham , where he soon became unpopular. As a General serving under Oliver Cromwell he became quite notorious, so disliked that the parishioners of Harbledown objected, that so long as it was not Culmer they cared not who ministed unto them. He had been known to have despised William Laud, who had him committed to the Fleet for refusing to read 'the Book of Sports' after his services in Church. Already disliked he delighted in his promotion as a Commissioner to oversee the demolition of superstitious ( Catholic) monuments, and set about his task at Canterbury with enthusiasm, so much so that his parishioners would openly flock to attack him, to the extent that soon he had to carry out his task with Cromwell's Soldier's to protect him. For his services to Parliament he was offered the living of the parish of Minster in Thanet in 1644, where his parishioners had locked the church against him at his ordination, when he attempted to break in to the church he was mobbed and beaten. So despised was he that the parish refused to pay tithes to support him, but then offered his arrears if he would but go away! He later found himself under arrest in London, and asked why he had destroyed the figure of Christ in the Cathedral windows, and not that of the Devil, he merely replied that Parliament's orders were for the removal of the same and made no reference to Satan. Described as 'odious for his zeal and fury' he survived in his position until shortly before the Restoration of Charles II. He had married in 1639 to Miss Beeson, and again twenty years later to a Dutch woman, the widow Mrs. Bocher of Haarlem in Holland, the country in which he died in 1669. From: "Barbara Callcott" <barbara_callcott@yahoo.com.au> To:ISLE-OF-THANET@rootsweb.com Subject:[Isle-of-Thanet] WHITE, CULMER, FENNER, Broadstairs I am new to the list. I am trying to trace my ancestors who were shipbuilders at Broadstairs. Susannah FENNER (abt 1736 to 1822) married in 1754 to John(3) WHITE (1732 - 1801) . John (3) was the son of Mary CULMER (abt 1692 to 1768) married in 1714 to John (2) WHITE (1693 - 1781). I have been told that Susannah FENNER was also descended from CULMERs. I am hoping that someone may be able to help with information about these families and how they are related. Thanks Barbara Callcott

Dear Bernie, Found an article about the church in Bygone Kent Suzannah Bygone Kent Volume 6 Number 29 Page 515 Restitution and Renewal - Some Roman Catholic Churches in Kent Part Two By Martin Tapsell Thanet -. SS Austin and Gregory in Margate built on the Victoria Road site in 1803. Originally a 100 seat oblong hall, this gained an adjacent School in 1863. The original tower and a Lady Chapel came in 1866. The church was given over to the Benedictines in 1887 and the present high tower and new aisle were built. The former presbytery became the sanctuary in 1890 while he priest moved to an adjacent cottage until this was replaced in 1894. Another side aisle was opened in the front of the Scared Heart altar. A Chapel to St Joseph opened in 1897. The new organ put in at the same time was moved to the clerestory at the side, allowing more light through the window at the east end. This move took place in 1935 but the organ wore out in the 1970's and has an electronic successor. Today's stone screen replaced a wooden one in 1935. The original door opened straight out on the busy road, but now opens into a small courtyard sideways to the tower. back in Diocesan care from 1966, the parish was then losing population in redevelopment. The former Sacred Heart Chapel immediately inside was converted into a hall, with the sacristy at the far end. A Frosted glass partition separates it from the main church. Once again, in 2005, an ambitious programme of renovation is ongoing, larger items being new heating (£22,000) and woodworm treatment (£10,320) and much else besides. Brown's, Organ builders, took away the disused organ and there has been a striking lighting project to highlight focal points like the St Joseph Altar, as recommended by a light consultant. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Tuffs To: ISLE-OF-THANET@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 8:25 PM Subject: [SPAM] [ISLE-OF-THANET] searching for info... Hi! I'm searching for information about our Church - SS. Austin & Gregory R.C. Church, Victoria Road Margate. It is over 200 years old and has apparently never been Consecrated. The Archbishop is coming on 4th November to do this, and I have been charged with the task of making a photographic (with some written info!) history of the Church. There was once a school on the land next to the Church...St. Austins??? If anyone is able to give me any info for any period, or share photos, or just point me in the right direction to find this, I would be very grateful - I've googled for hours and found nothing so far! Thanks in advance! Bernadette R M Tuffs brmt@supanet.com

For some reason that I have yet to figure out, I have a copy of a marriage register entry from St Peter's in Thanet, for Ann CULMER (widow) and Stephen PHILPOT, signed by John PIGOTT, vicar. The copy is dated 1808, but their marriage was in 1781. It was amongst my father's things, but I have no idea if it's anything to do with our family or just that he collected ephemera from Broadstairs and St Peter's. I have sent a scan to one person researching CULMER and if anyone else would like a copy, just let me know. Best wishes Elizabeth Suzannah Foad wrote: >I think you could look through the Isle of Thanet and the Mariner rootsweb >Mailing list archives and find a few people also researching this family if >you have not been contacted alreday > >There is a book which could you help you, regarding the main shipbuilding >branch of the White >family which is David L Williams' book 'White's of Cowes - White's Built, >Well Built' publ Silver Link Publishing 1993 ISBN 0 85794 011 3 > >Some info below found by googling! >Good luck >Suzannah > > >Reference to the Culmer family is found in the pages of a Thanet history >book, Mockett's Journal (1836) by John Mockett (1775~1848). Mention is made >by Mockett of the will of a Richard Culmer, a carpenter in 1434. Shortly >thereafter, in 1440, an archway was built by George Culmer across a track >leading down to the sea, where the first wooden pier or jetty was built in >1460. A more enduring structure was to replace this in 1538. >The Culmers nestled their boatyard on these protected sands. It was in 1538 >that the road leading to the seafront, known as Harbour Street, was cut into >the rough chalk ground Broadstairs is built upon. This was accomplished by >the local shipwright George Culmer. Going further in defence of the town, he >built the York Gate in 1540, a portal that still spans Harbour Street, and >which then held two heavy wooden doors that could be closed in times of >threat from the sea. By 1795, York Gate needed repair to repel any threat >from the French Revolutionary Wars; the subsequent renovation was undertaken >by Lord Hanniker in the same year as the first lightship was placed on the >Goodwin Sands. >A brief outline of the history of Broadstairs Pier is given in Broadstairs, >past and present, which mentions a storm in 1767, during which Culmer's work >was all but destroyed. At this time it was of considerable importance to the >fishing trade with catches as far afield as Yarmouth, Hastings, Folkestone, >Dover and Torbay and elsewhere being landed. It had become so indispensable >that the Corporations of Yarmouth, Dover, Hythe and Canterbury with >assistance from the East India Company and Trinity House subscribed to its >restoration with a payment of £2,000/~ in 1774. >Maritime history > > >With the closure of the Culmer-White boatyard at Broadstairs in 1824, >boatbuilding operations were transferred to the Isle of Wight where the firm >of J. Samuel White became established. >It has been suggested that news of the loss of the Irish Packet Royal >Adelaide with 250 lives, on the sands off Margate on April 6, 1850, prompted >old Thomas White to present one of his lifeboats to his home town of >Broadstairs that summer. A ballad was written to celebrate the occasion, >Song of the Mary White. The lifeboat saw its first use on March 6, 1851 when >the brig Mary White became trapped on the Goodwin Sands during a severe gale >blowing from the north. >In 1841, 44 mariners were recorded as resident in Broadstairs, nine of these >being specified as fishermen, and of course the residual boat-building >activity that remained after the Culmer~White yard closed still continued, >though there were only four shipwrights recorded in the census: Solomon >Holbourn and Joseph Jarman among them. > > >Richard Culmer >Sir Richard Culmer ( 1612- 1633) was the eldest son of Sir Henry Culmer >(~1574- 1633), the first Baron Culmer . Sir Henry, himself a son of a Henry >Culmer, had married Mary Baldwyn in 1602, and was created a Baron by King >Charles I in 1630. >Richard Culmer was the son of Sir Richard Culmer by his first wife and was >born in 1640/1. Richard was buried in the parish church of Monkton, on the >Isle of Thanet. Of his legacies was the endowment on Broadstairs of an area >of six acres of ground for the poor of the parish. The name survives to this >day as 'Culmer's Allotment.' > >Richard Culmer had been educated at Oxford and established himself as a >Puritan Minister of some note. > >In 1643 Culmer obtained the living of the parish of Chartham , where he soon >became unpopular. As a General serving under Oliver Cromwell he became quite >notorious, so disliked that the parishioners of Harbledown objected, that so >long as it was not Culmer they cared not who ministed unto them. > >He had been known to have despised William Laud, who had him committed to >the Fleet for refusing to read 'the Book of Sports' after his services in >Church. > >Already disliked he delighted in his promotion as a Commissioner to oversee >the demolition of superstitious ( Catholic) monuments, and set about his >task at Canterbury with enthusiasm, so much so that his parishioners would >openly flock to attack him, to the extent that soon he had to carry out his >task with Cromwell's Soldier's to protect him. > >For his services to Parliament he was offered the living of the parish of >Minster in Thanet in 1644, where his parishioners had locked the church >against him at his ordination, when he attempted to break in to the church >he was mobbed and beaten. So despised was he that the parish refused to pay >tithes to support him, but then offered his arrears if he would but go away! > >He later found himself under arrest in London, and asked why he had >destroyed the figure of Christ in the Cathedral windows, and not that of the >Devil, he merely replied that Parliament's orders were for the removal of >the same and made no reference to Satan. > >Described as 'odious for his zeal and fury' he survived in his position >until shortly before the Restoration of Charles II. > >He had married in 1639 to Miss Beeson, and again twenty years later to a >Dutch woman, the widow Mrs. Bocher of Haarlem in Holland, the country in >which he died in 1669. > > > >From: "Barbara Callcott" <barbara_callcott@yahoo.com.au> >To:ISLE-OF-THANET@rootsweb.com >Subject:[Isle-of-Thanet] WHITE, CULMER, FENNER, Broadstairs > > >I am new to the list. I am trying to trace my ancestors who were >shipbuilders at Broadstairs. >Susannah FENNER (abt 1736 to 1822) married in 1754 to John(3) WHITE (1732 - >1801) . >John (3) was the son of Mary CULMER (abt 1692 to 1768) married in 1714 to >John (2) WHITE (1693 - 1781). > >I have been told that Susannah FENNER was also descended from CULMERs. >I am hoping that someone may be able to help with information about these >families and how they are related. > >Thanks >Barbara Callcott > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ISLE-OF-THANET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

I am new to the list. I am trying to trace my ancestors who were shipbuilders at Broadstairs. Susannah FENNER (abt 1736 to 1822) married in 1754 to John(3) WHITE (1732 - 1801) . John (3) was the son of Mary CULMER (abt 1692 to 1768) married in 1714 to John (2) WHITE (1693 - 1781). I have been told that Susannah FENNER was also descended from CULMERs. I am hoping that someone may be able to help with information about these families and how they are related. Thanks Barbara Callcott Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

Thank you to everybody who has helped me with the questions I had reagrding U.S.D on a birth certificate and the age kids were married. Kind regards Julie Thompson (Australia)

Dear Suzanne I would love some photos of the homes today, if it is not too much trouble. Kind Regards Julie Thompson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzannah Foad" <suzannah.foad@btopenworld.com> To: <isle-of-thanet-l@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 6:31 AM Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] Harrison - Alexandra Homes > Dear Julie, > > I can help with Alexandra Homes. > > The Prince of Wales, later Edward VII, was to marry Princess Alexandra of > Denmark and the Nation was following the progress of the Royal Yacht > Victoria and Albert, accompanied by the war ships Warrior and Revenge, > bringing the young Princess to England. > The ships were unexpectedly obliged to anchor off Margate on the evening > of > 5th March 1963. > > Mayor of Margate- Councillor John Berry Flint instantly seized the chance > it > gave him of presenting her Royal Highness the first address of welcome to > the shores of England. > A public meeting was held in the town and first it was decided to erect a > clock tower near Margate Marine Terrace, but finally it was decided to > build > Alexandra Homes as a more fitting commemoration. > > The foundation stone was laid by Mrs Taddy Friend, whose family provided > the > land, on 17th May 1866. It was mainly for the "aged and decayed > inhabitants > of Margate". > Members of the Margate Cobb family subscribed funds to cover the building > of > 20 houses and 6 other people each donated a home. Bells were rung, a Royal > Salute fired and around 2000 people attended the ceremony. > > The homes are still in use today, though private, and I can send a few > pictures off list. > > I would guess that Dorothy may have used a few names, Found this marriage > you see > > Marriages Jun 1879 > Harrison Harry Walter Lambeth 1d 580 > > Marriages Jun 1879 > CHRISTMAS Frances Ethel Lambeth 1d 580 > > Good luck > Suzannah > > > > > > Hi my name is Julie Thompson and I reside in Melbourne , Australia. I have > just recently ordered a birth certificate of a Dorothy Frances Winifred > Harrison, born in 1881. The place of birth is given as 3 Alexndra Retreat > , > Margate, registrationd District Thanet. the Letter U.S.D are listed after > the address. I am interested if anybody knows of this place, and what the > letters u.S.D stand for? The place of her birth may have been somebody's > house, but it doesn't sound like it to me. I am also concerned as the > Mothers name is given as Dorothy Harrison , Formerly Christmas. This lady > was only 15 at the time of birth. Did somebody marry that young in 1881? > Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. > Many thanks > Julie Thompson (Australia) > Julie, > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ISLE-OF-THANET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Suzaannah Many thanks for your email. You have I think just solved a huge mystery for me. I am very appreciative. I am awaiting some certificates that should arrive today, and hopefully they too will complete this puzzle. Dorothy Merry Christmas married in 1908 Harry Walter Harrison. Now what I didn't understand was that they had their first hild in 1881 in Alexandra Retreat. Why would Dorothy wait until 1908 to marry Harry, one asks? What I think has happened here is that in 1879 Harry Harrison married Dorothy's sister Frances, and unfortunately I believe Frances died as when Harry marries Dorothy he is declared a widow oin his marriage certificate. The qustion I still need to answer is when did Frances die? Hopefully it was before Dorothy started having his chilldren. For some reason I can't find Harry in the 1881 census, but the interesting thing about him is that he was born in Sydney, Australia, or so the 1891, and 1901 census says. I am working on this problem at the moment. I will order the certificate that you have given the indexes for. I will let you know what I have found. Thank you so much for your help. Kindest Regards Julie Thompson o me----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzannah Foad" <suzannah.foad@btopenworld.com> To: <isle-of-thanet-l@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 6:31 AM Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] Harrison - Alexandra Homes > Dear Julie, > > I can help with Alexandra Homes. > > The Prince of Wales, later Edward VII, was to marry Princess Alexandra of > Denmark and the Nation was following the progress of the Royal Yacht > Victoria and Albert, accompanied by the war ships Warrior and Revenge, > bringing the young Princess to England. > The ships were unexpectedly obliged to anchor off Margate on the evening > of > 5th March 1963. > > Mayor of Margate- Councillor John Berry Flint instantly seized the chance > it > gave him of presenting her Royal Highness the first address of welcome to > the shores of England. > A public meeting was held in the town and first it was decided to erect a > clock tower near Margate Marine Terrace, but finally it was decided to > build > Alexandra Homes as a more fitting commemoration. > > The foundation stone was laid by Mrs Taddy Friend, whose family provided > the > land, on 17th May 1866. It was mainly for the "aged and decayed > inhabitants > of Margate". > Members of the Margate Cobb family subscribed funds to cover the building > of > 20 houses and 6 other people each donated a home. Bells were rung, a Royal > Salute fired and around 2000 people attended the ceremony. > > The homes are still in use today, though private, and I can send a few > pictures off list. > > I would guess that Dorothy may have used a few names, Found this marriage > you see > > Marriages Jun 1879 > Harrison Harry Walter Lambeth 1d 580 > > Marriages Jun 1879 > CHRISTMAS Frances Ethel Lambeth 1d 580 > > Good luck > Suzannah > > > > > > Hi my name is Julie Thompson and I reside in Melbourne , Australia. I have > just recently ordered a birth certificate of a Dorothy Frances Winifred > Harrison, born in 1881. The place of birth is given as 3 Alexndra Retreat > , > Margate, registrationd District Thanet. the Letter U.S.D are listed after > the address. I am interested if anybody knows of this place, and what the > letters u.S.D stand for? The place of her birth may have been somebody's > house, but it doesn't sound like it to me. I am also concerned as the > Mothers name is given as Dorothy Harrison , Formerly Christmas. This lady > was only 15 at the time of birth. Did somebody marry that young in 1881? > Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. > Many thanks > Julie Thompson (Australia) > Julie, > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ISLE-OF-THANET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Julie, have you found the Christmas family with both Frances and Dorothy in censuses before 1881? Are you sure theyre not the same person? 1901 Dorothy Harrison Age: 34 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867 Relation: Wife Spouse's name: Walter Gender: Female Where born: Camberwell, London, England Civil Parish: Newington Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew Newington County/Island: London Country: England Registration district: St Saviour Southwark Sub-registration district: St Mary, Newington ED, institution, or vessel: 18 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 330 Household Members: Name Age Arthur Harrison 4 Daisy Harrison 7 Dorothy Harrison 34 Edgar Harrison 15 Mabel Harrison 11 Malcolme Harrison 19 Reginald Harrison 1 Walter Harrison 44 Winifred Harrison 19 1891 Dorothy M Harrison Age: 26 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865 Relation: Wife Spouse's name: Harry W Gender: Female Where born: Camberwell, London, England Civil Parish: Margate Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity Town: Margate County/Island: Kent Country: England Registration district: Thanet Sub-registration district: Margate ED, institution, or vessel: 16 Household Members: Name Age Dorothy F W Harrison 9 Dorothy M Harrison 26 Edgar G Harrison 5 Ethel B Harrison 8 Harry M Harrison 7 Harry W Harrison 38 Mabel B Harrison 1 In both of these Dorothy is his wife ( though that doesn't mean they were actually married. But I can't find a Frances Christmas or Harrison in previous censuses. Anne On 14 Nov 2006, at 02:10, Julie Thompson wrote: > Hi Suzaannah > Many thanks for your email. You have I think just solved a huge > mystery for > me. I am very appreciative. > I am awaiting some certificates that should arrive today, and > hopefully they > too will complete this puzzle. > > Dorothy Merry Christmas married in 1908 Harry Walter Harrison. Now > what I > didn't understand was that they had their first hild in 1881 in > Alexandra > Retreat. Why would Dorothy wait until 1908 to marry Harry, one asks? > > What I think has happened here is that in 1879 Harry Harrison married > Dorothy's sister Frances, and unfortunately I believe Frances died as > when > Harry marries Dorothy he is declared a widow oin his marriage > certificate. > The qustion I still need to answer is when did Frances die? Hopefully > it > was before Dorothy started having his chilldren. For some reason I > can't > find Harry in the 1881 census, but the interesting thing about him is > that > he was born in Sydney, Australia, or so the 1891, and 1901 census > says. I > am working on this problem at the moment. > I will order the certificate that you have given the indexes > for. I will let you know what I have found. Thank you so much for > your > help. > Kindest Regards > Julie Thompson > > > > o me----- Original Message ----- > From: "Suzannah Foad" <suzannah.foad@btopenworld.com> > To: <isle-of-thanet-l@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 6:31 AM > Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] Harrison - Alexandra Homes > > >> Dear Julie, >> >> I can help with Alexandra Homes. >> >> The Prince of Wales, later Edward VII, was to marry Princess >> Alexandra of >> Denmark and the Nation was following the progress of the Royal Yacht >> Victoria and Albert, accompanied by the war ships Warrior and Revenge, >> bringing the young Princess to England. >> The ships were unexpectedly obliged to anchor off Margate on the >> evening >> of >> 5th March 1963. >> >> Mayor of Margate- Councillor John Berry Flint instantly seized the >> chance >> it >> gave him of presenting her Royal Highness the first address of >> welcome to >> the shores of England. >> A public meeting was held in the town and first it was decided to >> erect a >> clock tower near Margate Marine Terrace, but finally it was decided to >> build >> Alexandra Homes as a more fitting commemoration. >> >> The foundation stone was laid by Mrs Taddy Friend, whose family >> provided >> the >> land, on 17th May 1866. It was mainly for the "aged and decayed >> inhabitants >> of Margate". >> Members of the Margate Cobb family subscribed funds to cover the >> building >> of >> 20 houses and 6 other people each donated a home. Bells were rung, a >> Royal >> Salute fired and around 2000 people attended the ceremony. >> >> The homes are still in use today, though private, and I can send a few >> pictures off list. >> >> I would guess that Dorothy may have used a few names, Found this >> marriage >> you see >> >> Marriages Jun 1879 >> Harrison Harry Walter Lambeth 1d 580 >> >> Marriages Jun 1879 >> CHRISTMAS Frances Ethel Lambeth 1d 580 >> >> Good luck >> Suzannah >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi my name is Julie Thompson and I reside in Melbourne , Australia. I >> have >> just recently ordered a birth certificate of a Dorothy Frances >> Winifred >> Harrison, born in 1881. The place of birth is given as 3 Alexndra >> Retreat >> , >> Margate, registrationd District Thanet. the Letter U.S.D are listed >> after >> the address. I am interested if anybody knows of this place, and what >> the >> letters u.S.D stand for? The place of her birth may have been >> somebody's >> house, but it doesn't sound like it to me. I am also concerned as the >> Mothers name is given as Dorothy Harrison , Formerly Christmas. This >> lady >> was only 15 at the time of birth. Did somebody marry that young in >> 1881? >> Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. >> Many thanks >> Julie Thompson (Australia) >> Julie, >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ISLE-OF-THANET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ISLE-OF-THANET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Dear Listers I saw some comments about people marrying at young ages. It may have been the case.But I must point out that many of the Registations were Baptism or Christening Registrations and were not actually Birth Registrations. While some children were baptised soon after Birth, many were not. It could be that one was say ten years old at baptism. So to take the 'Birth' Registration as such, when it may have been a Baptism or Christening Registration is to suggest a wrong age. I was once regularly looking at microfiche and sometimes a Christening Registration which was the Registration might also give a birth date in the microfiche but this was not recorded in the Registrations. These dates often varied widely. Often seeming twins were not because sometimes more than one children in a family were christened together if a family had a long walk to a Church. Thus a seeming 12 year old at marriage might actaully be older. Mayeb 16 might be closer. I just suggest that people take care in assuming too much from a Christening Registration which after all is he date recorded by the Church, the date of Christening, not the date of birth. I have been caught on this one. Brian in Australia PS The First Test starts Friday Dec 1.

Hi my name is Julie Thompson and I reside in Melbourne , Australia. I have just recently ordered a birth certificate of a Dorothy Frances Winifred Harrison, born in 1881. The place of birth is given as 3 Alexndra Retreat , Margate, registrationd District Thanet. the Letter U.S.D are listed after the address. I am interested if anybody knows of this place, and what the letters u.S.D stand for? The place of her birth may have been somebody's house, but it doesn't sound like it to me. I am also concerned as the Mothers name is given as Dorothy Harrison , Formerly Christmas. This lady was only 15 at the time of birth. Did somebody marry that young in 1881? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks Julie Thompson (Australia)

Dear Julie, I can help with Alexandra Homes. The Prince of Wales, later Edward VII, was to marry Princess Alexandra of Denmark and the Nation was following the progress of the Royal Yacht Victoria and Albert, accompanied by the war ships Warrior and Revenge, bringing the young Princess to England. The ships were unexpectedly obliged to anchor off Margate on the evening of 5th March 1963. Mayor of Margate- Councillor John Berry Flint instantly seized the chance it gave him of presenting her Royal Highness the first address of welcome to the shores of England. A public meeting was held in the town and first it was decided to erect a clock tower near Margate Marine Terrace, but finally it was decided to build Alexandra Homes as a more fitting commemoration. The foundation stone was laid by Mrs Taddy Friend, whose family provided the land, on 17th May 1866. It was mainly for the "aged and decayed inhabitants of Margate". Members of the Margate Cobb family subscribed funds to cover the building of 20 houses and 6 other people each donated a home. Bells were rung, a Royal Salute fired and around 2000 people attended the ceremony. The homes are still in use today, though private, and I can send a few pictures off list. I would guess that Dorothy may have used a few names, Found this marriage you see Marriages Jun 1879 Harrison Harry Walter Lambeth 1d 580 Marriages Jun 1879 CHRISTMAS Frances Ethel Lambeth 1d 580 Good luck Suzannah Hi my name is Julie Thompson and I reside in Melbourne , Australia. I have just recently ordered a birth certificate of a Dorothy Frances Winifred Harrison, born in 1881. The place of birth is given as 3 Alexndra Retreat , Margate, registrationd District Thanet. the Letter U.S.D are listed after the address. I am interested if anybody knows of this place, and what the letters u.S.D stand for? The place of her birth may have been somebody's house, but it doesn't sound like it to me. I am also concerned as the Mothers name is given as Dorothy Harrison , Formerly Christmas. This lady was only 15 at the time of birth. Did somebody marry that young in 1881? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks Julie Thompson (Australia) Julie,

Hi Julie, Alexandra Retreat was in Tivoli Road. There were some 'Philanthropic Homes" called Alexandra homes in that Road, built before 1881. There was also an Alexandra Orphanage. HTH Anne By the way I can't find a Dorothy Christmas in any census before 1881 not can I find a marriage in Kent for her before 1881. On 13 Nov 2006, at 11:18, Julie Thompson wrote: > Hi my name is Julie Thompson and I reside in Melbourne , Australia. I > have just recently ordered a birth certificate of a Dorothy Frances > Winifred Harrison, born in 1881. The place of birth is given as 3 > Alexndra Retreat , Margate, registrationd District Thanet. the Letter > U.S.D are listed after the address. I am interested if anybody knows > of this place, and what the letters u.S.D stand for? The place of her > birth may have been somebody's house, but it doesn't sound like it to > me. I am also concerned as the Mothers name is given as Dorothy > Harrison , Formerly Christmas. This lady was only 15 at the time of > birth. Did somebody marry that young in 1881? > Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. > Many thanks > Julie Thompson (Australia) >

i think the law changed in 1926 ish that a person could marry at the age of 12 then. it had to be approved by an adult though.don't hold me to that though. marie Julie Thompson <Julie777@bigpond.net.au> wrote: Hi my name is Julie Thompson and I reside in Melbourne , Australia. I have just recently ordered a birth certificate of a Dorothy Frances Winifred Harrison, born in 1881. The place of birth is given as 3 Alexndra Retreat , Margate, registrationd District Thanet. the Letter U.S.D are listed after the address. I am interested if anybody knows of this place, and what the letters u.S.D stand for? The place of her birth may have been somebody's house, but it doesn't sound like it to me. I am also concerned as the Mothers name is given as Dorothy Harrison , Formerly Christmas. This lady was only 15 at the time of birth. Did somebody marry that young in 1881? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks Julie Thompson (Australia) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ISLE-OF-THANET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Julie, Just as a follow up, the 1891 Census has them living at 3 Randolph Square in Margate. Harry W Harrison Head 38 Foreman Plumber, born Sydney, Australia Dorothy M -//- Wife 26, born Camberwell (so her age on her daughter's birth cert is about right) Dorothy FW -//- Daur 9, born Margate Ethel B -//- Daur 8, born Greenwich Harry M -//- Son, 7, born Margate Edgar G -//- Son, 5, born Margate Mabel B -//- Daur, 1, born Margate Ref: RG 12/728 folio 95 page 16. Hope that helps a bit further. Regards Martin -----Original Message----- From: isle-of-thanet-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:isle-of-thanet-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Martin Rowland Sent: 13 November 2006 11:26 To: isle-of-thanet@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Isle-of-Thanet] CHRISTMAS and HARRISON Hi Julie, USD probably stands for Urban Sanitary District, which I expect Margate was at that time. The Sanitary Districts (Urban and Rural) later became just Districts and UD follows addresses. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_sanitary_district . Sorry but can't help you with your other queries, but I expect someone else can. Regards Martin -----Original Message----- From: isle-of-thanet-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:isle-of-thanet-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Julie Thompson Sent: 13 November 2006 11:18 To: ISLE-OF-THANET@rootsweb.com Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] CHRISTMAS and HARRISON Hi my name is Julie Thompson and I reside in Melbourne , Australia. I have just recently ordered a birth certificate of a Dorothy Frances Winifred Harrison, born in 1881. The place of birth is given as 3 Alexndra Retreat , Margate, registrationd District Thanet. the Letter U.S.D are listed after the address. I am interested if anybody knows of this place, and what the letters u.S.D stand for? The place of her birth may have been somebody's house, but it doesn't sound like it to me. I am also concerned as the Mothers name is given as Dorothy Harrison , Formerly Christmas. This lady was only 15 at the time of birth. Did somebody marry that young in 1881? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks Julie Thompson (Australia) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ISLE-OF-THANET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ISLE-OF-THANET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Julie, USD probably stands for Urban Sanitary District, which I expect Margate was at that time. The Sanitary Districts (Urban and Rural) later became just Districts and UD follows addresses. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_sanitary_district . Sorry but can't help you with your other queries, but I expect someone else can. Regards Martin -----Original Message----- From: isle-of-thanet-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:isle-of-thanet-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Julie Thompson Sent: 13 November 2006 11:18 To: ISLE-OF-THANET@rootsweb.com Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] CHRISTMAS and HARRISON Hi my name is Julie Thompson and I reside in Melbourne , Australia. I have just recently ordered a birth certificate of a Dorothy Frances Winifred Harrison, born in 1881. The place of birth is given as 3 Alexndra Retreat , Margate, registrationd District Thanet. the Letter U.S.D are listed after the address. I am interested if anybody knows of this place, and what the letters u.S.D stand for? The place of her birth may have been somebody's house, but it doesn't sound like it to me. I am also concerned as the Mothers name is given as Dorothy Harrison , Formerly Christmas. This lady was only 15 at the time of birth. Did somebody marry that young in 1881? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks Julie Thompson (Australia) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ISLE-OF-THANET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There is a write-up on marriage ages at: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LIN/churchrecs.html#Intro Lou On 13 Nov 2006 at 12:50, A PIPER wrote: > i think the law changed in 1926 ish that a person could marry at > the age of 12 then. it had to be approved by an adult though.don't > hold me to that though. > > marie > > Julie Thompson <Julie777@bigpond.net.au> wrote: > Hi my name is Julie Thompson and I reside in Melbourne , > Australia. I have just recently ordered a birth certificate of a > Dorothy Frances Winifred Harrison, born in 1881. The place of birth > is given as 3 Alexndra Retreat , Margate, registrationd District > Thanet. the Letter U.S.D are listed after the address. I am > interested if anybody knows of this place, and what the letters > u.S.D stand for? The place of her birth may have been somebody's > house, but it doesn't sound like it to me. I am also concerned as > the Mothers name is given as Dorothy Harrison , Formerly Christmas. > This lady was only 15 at the time of birth. Did somebody marry that > young in 1881? > Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. > Many thanks > Julie Thompson (Australia) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ISLE-OF-THANET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ISLE-OF-THANET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I think U.S.D. stands for Urban Sanitary District. Not the "nicest" of terms! Lou On 13 Nov 2006 at 12:50, A PIPER wrote: > i think the law changed in 1926 ish that a person could marry at > the age of 12 then. it had to be approved by an adult though.don't > hold me to that though. > > marie > > Julie Thompson <Julie777@bigpond.net.au> wrote: > Hi my name is Julie Thompson and I reside in Melbourne , > Australia. I have just recently ordered a birth certificate of a > Dorothy Frances Winifred Harrison, born in 1881. The place of birth > is given as 3 Alexndra Retreat , Margate, registrationd District > Thanet. the Letter U.S.D are listed after the address. I am > interested if anybody knows of this place, and what the letters > u.S.D stand for? The place of her birth may have been somebody's > house, but it doesn't sound like it to me. I am also concerned as > the Mothers name is given as Dorothy Harrison , Formerly Christmas. > This lady was only 15 at the time of birth. Did somebody marry that > young in 1881? > Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. > Many thanks > Julie Thompson (Australia) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ISLE-OF-THANET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ISLE-OF-THANET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I think we have to be careful about the term "registrations". I agree with what you say about baptisms often being misinterpreted as births, but a Civil registration of birth, is just that: A registration of that event. A baptism is annointment into the church and can happen at any age. The mother might wait for the father to return from the sea or the military service. And, although done often within 3 weeks of birth, there are, as you point out, many that were done later. A baptism, technically, is not the same as a christening. Although typically done at the same time, a christening is the naming of the child and the presentation to the congregation of this new member. I often find that I have to go over these points with novice researchers because they assume the date in a church register is a birth date. Those are sometimes recorded, but a baptism is a baptism, not a birth. Just as a burial is a burial, not a death. The church, historically, cared about you when you were baptised and buried. The other dates didn't matter to the church. Lou On 14 Nov 2006 at 1:01, Brian and Sue wrote: > Dear Listers > > I saw some comments about people marrying at young ages. It may have > been the case.But I must point out that many of the Registations > were Baptism or Christening Registrations and were not actually > Birth Registrations. >