On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 8:55 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Marie, > 1891 Harry is lodging with the WINTON family at 70, Foord Rd, Folkstone. > He is listed as SYKES Hy Stevon > see 1891 census RG12 piece 749 folio 72 page 48 > > Cant find Harry in 1901 yet tho. > > Hope this helps > > Regards DaveL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "A PIPER" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 11:07 PM > Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] sykes > > > hello. i am back again for your help. i am now looking into my great > grandmothers family. the surname is sykes still. i am looking for harry > streven sykes. he has disappeared from the 1891, 1901 census. i cant find a > death record. in 1881 he lived at 26 sussex street in ramsgate with wife > rachel and 2 daughters edith mary ann and jessie louisa. > > i think i might have found a travel document of a h s sykes in 1894 coming > from new york to liverpool. in 1891 and 1901 census rachel is down as > married still. i am also unable to find a definate death record. i have > found a few harry sykes in a few places but not kent or where his family > are > from which is barnsley yorkshire ( i know you cant help with this place). > if you can help i would be gratful again. i have looked on ancestry but not > sure where else to look. > > marie > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

hello. i am back again for your help. i am now looking into my great grandmothers family. the surname is sykes still. i  am looking for harry streven sykes. he has disappeared from the 1891, 1901 census. i cant find a death record. in 1881 he lived at 26 sussex street in ramsgate with wife rachel and 2 daughters edith mary ann and jessie louisa.   i think i might have found a travel document of a h s sykes in 1894 coming from new york to liverpool. in 1891 and 1901 census rachel is down as married still. i am also unable to find a definate death record. i have found a few harry sykes in a few places but not kent or where his family are from which is barnsley yorkshire ( i know you cant help with this place). if you can help i would be gratful again. i have looked on ancestry but not sure where else to look.   marie

hello

Kentish Gazette 19th January 1832 Margate – Smuggling – An extraordinary discovery has been made here in the last week by officers of this Custom-house, which shows the persevering and enterprising spirit of the smugglers.  The officers went to search a house in the occupation of a man of the name of Cook, at the back of Zion-place, near the Fort, in Margate, and discovered in a room below a secret entrance, just large enough to admit a man crawling upon his knees.  The officers proceeded downwards upon an inclined plane towards the sea shore, to the distance of about 200 yards, passing under several hoses, at a depth of many feet below the surface of the ground, until they reached the lower entrance, which opens on the north west side of the Clifton Baths.  The mouth of the entrance was boarded over and covered with chalk and earth, rammed down in such a manner as completely to conceal it.  There were found, in the interior of the cliff, several trucks on wheels, and implements for the conveying of smuggled goods through the tunnel to Cook’s house.  The work, which it is calculated must have cost in labour from 100l. to 200l., was just finished, and is reported to have been paid for by a great silk-mercer and riband-seller in London.  It is fortunate for the revenue as well as for the silk-trade that such a discovery has been made, as the whole plan of operation was so well projected, that whilst the hide remained known only to the smugglers, they might at any time, in dark nights, in the short space of an hour, have smuggled many thousand pounds’ worth of property, and carried it off in safety.  It is whispered amongst the sailors on the pier, that if the officers had not been a little too eager in their pursuit, they might within a week, when the dark nights come on again, have made an immense seizure; but now that they have entirely defeated their own object, because not a vestige of any contraband article was yet to be found upon the premises.  This is the second subterraneous tunnel which has been dug under the same property within two years, and the second time the officers being defeated by their eagerness to grasp so large a prize.  It is justice to the lease of this singularly constructed property to say, that not the least suspicion is entertained but the revenue officers of any connivance on his part, he having given them duplicate keys of the subterraneous excavations and baths during the winter months, when the property lies unoccupied, and cautioned them that unless some of the revenue officers were stationed on the premises throughout the night, it was impossible to prevent smuggling.

Hi Terry What do you know of your Edward Maxted? Would this be him? Still cannot find a Edward marriage with a father William. Suzannah Name Edward Maxted Father's Name William Maxted Mother's Name Hannah Maxted Date of Baptism 11 January 1818   Abode Ramsgate   Parish Church St Lawrence   Ceremony Performed By G Abbot   Siblings Maxted  Henry  17 April 1814         Maxted  James Samuel  18 June 1820 Maxted  William  3 March 1811 ________________________________ From: Terry Taylor <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, 7 August, 2009 2:46:18 PM Subject: Re: [Isle-of-Thanet] MAXTED Edward in 1851 - Thanks I spoke too soon!  Neither of the marriages is mine.  William was the father of the Edward I'm looking for - James was a different generation.  I'm still very grateful to you Suzannah because these marriages can now be eliminated from my search. Best wishes, Terry in beautiful sunny Oakville >The marriage details are a real bonus Suzannah.  The first is mine, but the second may be connected in some way. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I spoke too soon! Neither of the marriages is mine. William was the father of the Edward I'm looking for - James was a different generation. I'm still very grateful to you Suzannah because these marriages can now be eliminated from my search. Best wishes, Terry in beautiful sunny Oakville >The marriage details are a real bonus Suzannah. The first is mine, but the second may be connected in some way.

THANK YOU both so much Suzannah and Anne! I've been out most of the day and came home tired enough to consider not even checking my e-mail today. I'm really glad I did! From just a quick look at what you've given me I think I've mixed up at least 2 Edwards, but now I think I can work it out. The marriage details are a real bonus Suzannah. The first is mine, but the second may be connected in some way. Best wishes, Terry

Edward Maxted Elizabeth Ann Cranbrook   Date of Marriage 7 July 1844   Age FULL  FULL   Profession Baker Father James Maxted  William Cranbrook   Fathers Profession Butcher  Cooper   Parish Church St Peter   Parish of Marriage Thanet Witnesses Nathaniel Burdridge & Robert Witherden   1851  Princes Street, Ramsgate. Edward Maxted 34 born at Bishopsbourne, Kent, England; Baker master employing ?-men and boys Elizabeth A Maxted 30, wife born Sandwich George E Maxted 4, son William C Maxted 3, son Thomas C Maxted 1, son Eliza T Maxted 1 month, dau Emma Cranbrook 17, sister-in-law, shopwoman Ann H Sayer 16, general servant Edward Maxted Sarah Brisley   Date of Marriage 24 October 1847   Age FULL AGE  FULL AGE   Profession Labourer    Father Ralph Maxted  James Brisley   Fathers Profession Labourer  Shoe Maker   Parish Church St Lawrence   Parish of Marriage Thanet Witnesses John Goodchild &  Mary Ann Pyatt   1851 Edward Maxted 32 born Barham, Kent, living at 5 Carters Cottages, St John, Margate; labourer Sarah Maxted 29 born Brentford, Middlesex Edmund Maxted 5 months born Margate Elizabeth Brisley 68, mother-in-law; born Warwick, Birmingham Mary Ann Selmes 26, sister born Warwick, Birmingham. ----- Original Message ---- From: Terry Taylor <[email protected]> To: Isle of Thanet-L <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, 5 August, 2009 11:44:41 PM Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] MAXTED Edward in 1851 Hi, I would be very grateful if someone with access to the 1851 census could look for an Edward MAXTED born in Ramsgate in 1818.  I've found marriages in Thanet for Edward in 1844 and 1847 and I'm not sure which is my Edward (although I suppose it's possible that both are).  By 1861 the only Edward of the right age is a widower  living in Margate. Thanks for any help in sorting this one out. Terry, Oakville, Ontario ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Here are some entries from ancestry co.uk's 1851 and 1841 census years for Edward Maxted:- 1851 census:- Edward Maxted 34 born at Bishops Sourna, Kent, England; baker master employing ?-men and boys Elizabeth A Maxted 30, wife born Sandwich? George E Maxted 4, son William C Maxted 3, son Thomas C Maxted 1, son Eliza T Maxted 1 month, dau Emma Cranbrook 17, sister-in-law, shopwoman Ann H Suyer 16, general servant all at Princes Street, Ramsgate. Edward Maxted 32 born Barham, Kent, living at 5 Carters Cottages, St John, Margate; labourer Sarah Maxted 29 born Brentford, Middlesex Edmund Maxted 5 months born Margate Elizabeth Brisley 68, mother-in-law; born Warwick, Birmingham Mary Ann Selmes 26, sister born Warwick, Birmingham. Edward Maxted 31 born Wingham; grazier; living at Sarre, Kent George Court 26; servant Mary Ewett 48; servant Edward Maxted 33 born Swingfield, Kent; living at Chequers Inn, Swingfield, Kent; licensed victualler Sarah A Maxted 23 born Pluckley, Kent Ann Baker 15 wife's sister born Pluckley And these are from the 1841 census:- Edward Maxted 25 George Maxted 20 Both butchers in Ramsgate at Salem Place??, Preston-by-Wingham, Ramsgate Edward Maxted 25 journeyman baker at Princes Street, Ramsgate. There are no other MAXTEDs at this address. Edward Maxted 17 born St Johns, Margate, Kent employed as M/S (male servant) at Thanet House Boarding School, St Johns, Margate. Edward Maxted 25 carpenter, born in Kent Jane Maxted 25 born in Kent Elizabeth Maxted 45 born in Kent all at Wincheap Street, St Mildred, Canterbury, Kent. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Taylor" <[email protected]> To: "Isle of Thanet-L" <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 11:44 PM Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] MAXTED Edward in 1851 > Hi, > > > > I would be very grateful if someone with access to the 1851 census could > look for an Edward MAXTED born in Ramsgate in 1818. I've found marriages > in > Thanet for Edward in 1844 and 1847 and I'm not sure which is my Edward > (although I suppose it's possible that both are). By 1861 the only Edward > of the right age is a widower living in Margate. > > > > Thanks for any help in sorting this one out. > > > > Terry, Oakville, Ontario > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.44/2283 - Release Date: 08/05/09 05:57:00

Hi, I would be very grateful if someone with access to the 1851 census could look for an Edward MAXTED born in Ramsgate in 1818. I've found marriages in Thanet for Edward in 1844 and 1847 and I'm not sure which is my Edward (although I suppose it's possible that both are). By 1861 the only Edward of the right age is a widower living in Margate. Thanks for any help in sorting this one out. Terry, Oakville, Ontario

Thank you Suzannah and Barbara for your extremely useful feed-back on the registers and follow-up sources. Roger Young PS I hope one can reply to a digest! ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 8:00 AM Subject: ISLE-OF-THANET Digest, Vol 4, Issue 180 > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Fw: Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers (Roger Young) > 2. Re: Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers (Suzannah Foad) > 3. Re: Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers (Barbara Callcott) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:43:55 +0100 > From: "Roger Young" <[email protected]> > Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] Fw: Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thank you Ann and Andy for your help and advice on the general parish record keeping during that period. You have both described the problem well. However, I understand that some parishes continued to maintain the registers during the period in question, presumably being more traditional Anglicans, and others copied the facts back into the registers afterwards. I was being lazy in trying to avoid systematically going through each of the seven parish registers to see what happened in Thanet, in the hope that others might already have encountered that problem for one or more of those seven parishes. > Roger Young > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Roger Young > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:21 PM > Subject: Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers > > > Can anyone advise as to whether there any notable gaps in the Parish Registers caused by the 17C Civil War and more importantly the subsequent Commonwealth, or was there a basic continuity during the period 1642 to 1660? > I am writing up my family history at the moment and as background want to assess the extent to which the records reflect the impact of the puritan movement in Thanet. My impression is that there are no notable gaps, or obvious insertions of the missing years after the Restoration. But I do not have copies of all 7 parishes to hand. certainly Lewis writing in the 1720/30s does not make much of an issue of war and Commonwealt affecting Thanet. > Many thanks. > Roger Young > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:33:01 +0000 (GMT) > From: Suzannah Foad <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Isle-of-Thanet] Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Monkton stops in 1639 and does not resume until 1662. > ? > St Nicholas stops in 1639 and resumes in 1653 > ? > The other parishes run through OK. > ? > Alan Everitt's Community of Kent is the best source on the war and its impact on the island. Although there were no battles here, there was a lot of activity. Abell also wrote a book on the war in Kent with particular relation to Colonel Edwin Sandys who invaded and took the island in 1642 for Parliament.? There is?considerable material in the British Library in BM.Add.MSS 27999 - 28005.? Peter Clark's English Provincial Society gives some material on the development of the puritan movement prior to the war. Patrick Collinson, who was my professor at Kent, is obviously the expert on puritanism both locally and nationally and has published widely on the topic. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Roger Young <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, 3 August, 2009 7:21:49 PM > Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers > > Can anyone advise as to whether there any notable gaps in the Parish Registers caused by the 17C Civil War and more importantly the subsequent Commonwealth, or was there a basic continuity during the period 1642 to 1660?? > I am writing up my family history at the moment and as background want to assess the extent to which the records reflect the impact of the puritan movement in Thanet.? My impression is that there are no notable gaps, or obvious insertions of the missing years after the Restoration.? But I do not have copies of all 7 parishes to hand.? certainly Lewis writing in the 1720/30s does not make much of an issue of war and Commonwealt affecting Thanet. > Many thanks. > Roger Young > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 05:49:10 -0700 (PDT) > From: Barbara Callcott <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Isle-of-Thanet] Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > My understanding for St Lawrence and St Peters is that the registers are remarkably intact and remarkably continuous. > > For St Peters, Bishops transcripts and Archdeacons transcripts gaps for whole Commonwealth period & other gaps listed at http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C0%2C0&titleno=461886&disp=Archdeacon%27s+transcripts%2C+1560-181++ > > For St Peters parish registers generally quite good from memory although no details listed http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C0%2C0&titleno=224407&disp=Parish+registers+for+St.+Peter++ > > For St Lawrence see http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C0%2C0&titleno=461735&disp=Archdeacon%27s+tra nscripts%2C+1560-181++ and > > http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C0%2C0&titleno=582141&disp=Parish+registers+for+St.+Lawrence++ > > As I understand it, local churches generally continued to operate and maintain local registers during the Commonwealth period but the reporting mechanisms were dropped hence no Bishops/Archdeacons transcripts for some years. There are some changes in handwriting as personnel changed and spelling usually in english rather than latin. > > Hence IGI Batch C047721 which is transcribed from St Peters parish registers has 909 baptisms for the period 1640 to 1660. > And IGI Batch C036621 which is transcribed from St Lawrence parish registers has 728 baptisms for period 1640-1653. > > The main gaps in the registers are due to nonconformance ie people who married, baptised and were buried at non-Anglican venues but this was more an issue in St Lawrence than at St Peters.. > > The Compton census of 1676 required reports from the clergy see The Compton Census of 1676 By Anne Whiteman, Mary Clapinson for some reports on Thanet. > > Apparently Nicholas Whyte at St Peters was acceptable to most of the community & was prepared to baptise children with & without marking the cross which meant that the congregation included almost the whole community. So even if some people attended a sermon at the Congregational in what is now the bookshop in Broadstairs they would still attend at St Peters. Whyte also took the view that people not at church were probably at sea and thus did not report for recusancy. I don't know of any registers for the Broadstairs congregation in 17th century but the building has a plaque dated 1601 and it is likely that there were some registers which have not survived. > > In St Lawrence the church was well enough attended but almost no-one would take communion - that being regarded as a superstition and the non-attenders were not tolerated & were reported for recusancy and harassed through the assizes. Peter Johnson of Ramsgate was notably harassed. > > http://books.google.com.au/books?id=hvcDAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA510&dq=peter+Johnson+ramsgate&client=firefox-a#v=onepage&q=peter%20Johnson%20ramsgate&f=false gives a bit about Peter Johnson and the foundation of Independent s in Ramsgate. > > One result of the persecution of non anglicans is that many of the nonconformist registers were lost as people needed to destroy evidence which could put them in gaol or worse - for many years it was a crime to attend non-anglican worship (especially in the era of Charles I and from about 1672 to 1688 there was also much persecution). Even after 1688 there were significant restrictions on non anglican > protestant worship and much discrimination against nonanglicans eg > could not go to university. Non anglicans were still required to marry > only in anglican churches for instance. > > Barbara Callcott > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, 4 August, 2009 5:00:45 PM > Subject: ISLE-OF-THANET Digest, Vol 4, Issue 179 > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers (Roger Young) > 2. Re: Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers (Anne Peat) > 3. Re: Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers (Andy Hedgcock) > ) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:21:49 +0100 > From: "Roger Young" <[email protected]> > Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Can anyone advise as to whether there any notable gaps in the Parish Registers caused by the 17C Civil War and more importantly the subsequent Commonwealth, or was there a basic continuity during the period 1642 to 1660? > I am writing up my family history at the moment and as background want to assess the extent to which the records reflect the impact of the puritan movement in Thanet. My impression is that there are no notable gaps, or obvious insertions of the missing years after the Restoration. But I do not have copies of all 7 parishes to hand. certainly Lewis writing in the 1720/30s does not make much of an issue of war and Commonwealt affecting Thanet. > Many thanks. > Roger Young > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:37:09 +0100 > From: Anne Peat <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Isle-of-Thanet] Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > As I understand it, during the Commonwealth the registration of > births, marriages and deaths became a civil matter, and the Justices > of the Peace rather than parishes registered them.. Many of these were > destroyed after the restoration. > But I don't know how that affected Thanet in particular. > > Anne > On 3 Aug 2009, at 19:21, Roger Young wrote: > > > Can anyone advise as to whether there any notable gaps in the Parish > > Registers caused by the 17C Civil War and more importantly the > > subsequent Commonwealth, or was there a basic continuity during the > > period 1642 to 1660? > > I am writing up my family history at the moment and as background > > want to assess the extent to which the records reflect the impact of > > the puritan movement in Thanet.. My impression is that there are no > > notable gaps, or obvious insertions of the missing years after the > > Restoration. But I do not have copies of all 7 parishes to hand. > > certainly Lewis writing in the 1720/30s does not make much of an > > issue of war and Commonwealt affecting Thanet. > > Many thanks. > > Roger Young > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:39:57 +0100 > From: "Andy Hedgcock" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Isle-of-Thanet] Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Roger > > Not good news. > > "Thomas Cromwell first ordered the keeping of parish registers of baptisms, > marriages and burials in 1538, though only a very few registers actually > date so early. Further instructions were issued in 1598 to keep new > parchment registers and copy up the entries from the earlier paper > registers, but many were only copied from 1558, the first year of Queen > Elizabeth?s reign. Many surviving registers only date from the sixteenth or > seventeenth centuries, and where they survive there are often gaps, > sometimes of years, especially during the Civil war and Interregnum from > 1642 to 1660. Gaps in the registers can sometimes be overcome by consulting > copies made from the registers and sent every year (from 1598) to the Bishop > in each diocese, called Bishop?s Transcripts. These are now deposited in > those county record offices that also act as diocesan record offices. There > are, however, gaps in the transcripts as well." > > But if you can give me specific areas I can check in Phillimore's Atlas & > Index of Parish Registers for you. > > HTH > Andy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roger Young" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:21 PM > Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers > > > > Can anyone advise as to whether there any notable gaps in the Parish > > Registers caused by the 17C Civil War and more importantly the subsequent > > Commonwealth, or was there a basic continuity during the period 1642 to > > 1660? > > I am writing up my family history at the moment and as background want to > > assess the extent to which the records reflect the impact of the puritan > > movement in Thanet. My impression is that there are no notable gaps, or > > obvious insertions of the missing years after the Restoration. But I do > > not have copies of all 7 parishes to hand. certainly Lewis writing in the > > 1720/30s does not make much of an issue of war and Commonwealt affecting > > Thanet. > > Many thanks. > > Roger Young > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ > Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime.. Anywhere. > Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the ISLE-OF-THANET list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the ISLE-OF-THANET mailing list, send an email to [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of ISLE-OF-THANET Digest, Vol 4, Issue 180 > ********************************************** > >

Mike I collect Austen families. In case you are interested I have Barman Bourn Austen. His mother may have been Bourn or Barman? Regards ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Langston" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 5:40 AM Subject: Re: [Isle-of-Thanet] BARMAN > > My ancestor Edward Langston married an Elsie Winifred Barman in 1931, she > was the daughter of Richard Barman, the son of Charles Barman, the son of > Richard BArman, the son of William Barman. Not quite your area but similar > family as they came from Woodchurch. > >> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:14:31 +0100 >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] BARMAN >> >> One of the names I am researching is BARMAN and I have lots of >> information about them when they lived in Woodchurch and afterwards in >> New Romney, but the earliest I can find in Woodchurch is William who >> was married in 1749. >> >> I have have no idea from where they came before that. >> >> However, I see that there are many earlier BARMANs in St Lawrence >> Thanet, and some in St Peter Thanet, and wonder if these are my >> earlier ancestors. >> >> Sadly KFHS do not have these records on CD and they are not covered by >> Barry White's site. >> Does anyone know of any other sources I can access please? >> >> I am too far away, and too old, to be able to get to Kent easily but >> am very happy to buy anything that will help me in my research and >> would be grateful for any suggestions (I have the IGI microfiches for >> Kent). >> Joan. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live Messenger: Celebrate 10 amazing years with free winks and > emoticons. > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Monkton stops in 1639 and does not resume until 1662.   St Nicholas stops in 1639 and resumes in 1653   The other parishes run through OK.   Alan Everitt's Community of Kent is the best source on the war and its impact on the island. Although there were no battles here, there was a lot of activity. Abell also wrote a book on the war in Kent with particular relation to Colonel Edwin Sandys who invaded and took the island in 1642 for Parliament.  There is considerable material in the British Library in BM.Add.MSS 27999 - 28005.  Peter Clark's English Provincial Society gives some material on the development of the puritan movement prior to the war. Patrick Collinson, who was my professor at Kent, is obviously the expert on puritanism both locally and nationally and has published widely on the topic. ________________________________ From: Roger Young <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, 3 August, 2009 7:21:49 PM Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers Can anyone advise as to whether there any notable gaps in the Parish Registers caused by the 17C Civil War and more importantly the subsequent Commonwealth, or was there a basic continuity during the period 1642 to 1660?  I am writing up my family history at the moment and as background want to assess the extent to which the records reflect the impact of the puritan movement in Thanet.  My impression is that there are no notable gaps, or obvious insertions of the missing years after the Restoration.  But I do not have copies of all 7 parishes to hand.  certainly Lewis writing in the 1720/30s does not make much of an issue of war and Commonwealt affecting Thanet. Many thanks. Roger Young ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Ann and Andy for your help and advice on the general parish record keeping during that period. You have both described the problem well. However, I understand that some parishes continued to maintain the registers during the period in question, presumably being more traditional Anglicans, and others copied the facts back into the registers afterwards. I was being lazy in trying to avoid systematically going through each of the seven parish registers to see what happened in Thanet, in the hope that others might already have encountered that problem for one or more of those seven parishes. Roger Young ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Young To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:21 PM Subject: Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers Can anyone advise as to whether there any notable gaps in the Parish Registers caused by the 17C Civil War and more importantly the subsequent Commonwealth, or was there a basic continuity during the period 1642 to 1660? I am writing up my family history at the moment and as background want to assess the extent to which the records reflect the impact of the puritan movement in Thanet. My impression is that there are no notable gaps, or obvious insertions of the missing years after the Restoration. But I do not have copies of all 7 parishes to hand. certainly Lewis writing in the 1720/30s does not make much of an issue of war and Commonwealt affecting Thanet. Many thanks. Roger Young

My understanding for St Lawrence and St Peters is that the registers are remarkably intact and remarkably continuous. For St Peters, Bishops transcripts and Archdeacons transcripts gaps for whole Commonwealth period & other gaps listed at http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C0%2C0&titleno=461886&disp=Archdeacon%27s+transcripts%2C+1560-181++ For St Peters parish registers generally quite good from memory although no details listed http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C0%2C0&titleno=224407&disp=Parish+registers+for+St.+Peter++ For St Lawrence see http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C0%2C0&titleno=461735&disp=Archdeacon%27s+transcripts%2C+1560-181++ and http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C0%2C0&titleno=582141&disp=Parish+registers+for+St.+Lawrence++ As I understand it, local churches generally continued to operate and maintain local registers during the Commonwealth period but the reporting mechanisms were dropped hence no Bishops/Archdeacons transcripts for some years. There are some changes in handwriting as personnel changed and spelling usually in english rather than latin. Hence IGI Batch C047721 which is transcribed from St Peters parish registers has 909 baptisms for the period 1640 to 1660. And IGI Batch C036621 which is transcribed from St Lawrence parish registers has 728 baptisms for period 1640-1653. The main gaps in the registers are due to nonconformance ie people who married, baptised and were buried at non-Anglican venues but this was more an issue in St Lawrence than at St Peters.. The Compton census of 1676 required reports from the clergy see The Compton Census of 1676 By Anne Whiteman, Mary Clapinson for some reports on Thanet. Apparently Nicholas Whyte at St Peters was acceptable to most of the community & was prepared to baptise children with & without marking the cross which meant that the congregation included almost the whole community. So even if some people attended a sermon at the Congregational in what is now the bookshop in Broadstairs they would still attend at St Peters. Whyte also took the view that people not at church were probably at sea and thus did not report for recusancy. I don't know of any registers for the Broadstairs congregation in 17th century but the building has a plaque dated 1601 and it is likely that there were some registers which have not survived. In St Lawrence the church was well enough attended but almost no-one would take communion - that being regarded as a superstition and the non-attenders were not tolerated & were reported for recusancy and harassed through the assizes. Peter Johnson of Ramsgate was notably harassed. http://books.google.com.au/books?id=hvcDAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA510&dq=peter+Johnson+ramsgate&client=firefox-a#v=onepage&q=peter%20Johnson%20ramsgate&f=false gives a bit about Peter Johnson and the foundation of Independent s in Ramsgate. One result of the persecution of non anglicans is that many of the nonconformist registers were lost as people needed to destroy evidence which could put them in gaol or worse - for many years it was a crime to attend non-anglican worship (especially in the era of Charles I and from about 1672 to 1688 there was also much persecution). Even after 1688 there were significant restrictions on non anglican protestant worship and much discrimination against nonanglicans eg could not go to university. Non anglicans were still required to marry only in anglican churches for instance. Barbara Callcott ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, 4 August, 2009 5:00:45 PM Subject: ISLE-OF-THANET Digest, Vol 4, Issue 179 Today's Topics: 1. Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers (Roger Young) 2. Re: Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers (Anne Peat) 3. Re: Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers (Andy Hedgcock) ) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:21:49 +0100 From: "Roger Young" <[email protected]> Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Can anyone advise as to whether there any notable gaps in the Parish Registers caused by the 17C Civil War and more importantly the subsequent Commonwealth, or was there a basic continuity during the period 1642 to 1660? I am writing up my family history at the moment and as background want to assess the extent to which the records reflect the impact of the puritan movement in Thanet. My impression is that there are no notable gaps, or obvious insertions of the missing years after the Restoration. But I do not have copies of all 7 parishes to hand. certainly Lewis writing in the 1720/30s does not make much of an issue of war and Commonwealt affecting Thanet. Many thanks. Roger Young ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:37:09 +0100 From: Anne Peat <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Isle-of-Thanet] Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes As I understand it, during the Commonwealth the registration of births, marriages and deaths became a civil matter, and the Justices of the Peace rather than parishes registered them.. Many of these were destroyed after the restoration. But I don't know how that affected Thanet in particular. Anne On 3 Aug 2009, at 19:21, Roger Young wrote: > Can anyone advise as to whether there any notable gaps in the Parish > Registers caused by the 17C Civil War and more importantly the > subsequent Commonwealth, or was there a basic continuity during the > period 1642 to 1660? > I am writing up my family history at the moment and as background > want to assess the extent to which the records reflect the impact of > the puritan movement in Thanet.. My impression is that there are no > notable gaps, or obvious insertions of the missing years after the > Restoration. But I do not have copies of all 7 parishes to hand. > certainly Lewis writing in the 1720/30s does not make much of an > issue of war and Commonwealt affecting Thanet. > Many thanks. > Roger Young > > ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:39:57 +0100 From: "Andy Hedgcock" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Isle-of-Thanet] Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi Roger Not good news. "Thomas Cromwell first ordered the keeping of parish registers of baptisms, marriages and burials in 1538, though only a very few registers actually date so early. Further instructions were issued in 1598 to keep new parchment registers and copy up the entries from the earlier paper registers, but many were only copied from 1558, the first year of Queen Elizabeth?s reign. Many surviving registers only date from the sixteenth or seventeenth centuries, and where they survive there are often gaps, sometimes of years, especially during the Civil war and Interregnum from 1642 to 1660. Gaps in the registers can sometimes be overcome by consulting copies made from the registers and sent every year (from 1598) to the Bishop in each diocese, called Bishop?s Transcripts. These are now deposited in those county record offices that also act as diocesan record offices. There are, however, gaps in the transcripts as well." But if you can give me specific areas I can check in Phillimore's Atlas & Index of Parish Registers for you. HTH Andy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Young" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:21 PM Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers > Can anyone advise as to whether there any notable gaps in the Parish > Registers caused by the 17C Civil War and more importantly the subsequent > Commonwealth, or was there a basic continuity during the period 1642 to > 1660? > I am writing up my family history at the moment and as background want to > assess the extent to which the records reflect the impact of the puritan > movement in Thanet. My impression is that there are no notable gaps, or > obvious insertions of the missing years after the Restoration. But I do > not have copies of all 7 parishes to hand. certainly Lewis writing in the > 1720/30s does not make much of an issue of war and Commonwealt affecting > Thanet. > Many thanks. > Roger Young > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime.. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail

Hi Roger Not good news. "Thomas Cromwell first ordered the keeping of parish registers of baptisms, marriages and burials in 1538, though only a very few registers actually date so early. Further instructions were issued in 1598 to keep new parchment registers and copy up the entries from the earlier paper registers, but many were only copied from 1558, the first year of Queen Elizabeth´s reign. Many surviving registers only date from the sixteenth or seventeenth centuries, and where they survive there are often gaps, sometimes of years, especially during the Civil war and Interregnum from 1642 to 1660. Gaps in the registers can sometimes be overcome by consulting copies made from the registers and sent every year (from 1598) to the Bishop in each diocese, called Bishop´s Transcripts. These are now deposited in those county record offices that also act as diocesan record offices. There are, however, gaps in the transcripts as well." But if you can give me specific areas I can check in Phillimore's Atlas & Index of Parish Registers for you. HTH Andy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Young" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:21 PM Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] Continuity of Thanet Parish Registers > Can anyone advise as to whether there any notable gaps in the Parish > Registers caused by the 17C Civil War and more importantly the subsequent > Commonwealth, or was there a basic continuity during the period 1642 to > 1660? > I am writing up my family history at the moment and as background want to > assess the extent to which the records reflect the impact of the puritan > movement in Thanet. My impression is that there are no notable gaps, or > obvious insertions of the missing years after the Restoration. But I do > not have copies of all 7 parishes to hand. certainly Lewis writing in the > 1720/30s does not make much of an issue of war and Commonwealt affecting > Thanet. > Many thanks. > Roger Young > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

As I understand it, during the Commonwealth the registration of births, marriages and deaths became a civil matter, and the Justices of the Peace rather than parishes registered them. Many of these were destroyed after the restoration. But I don't know how that affected Thanet in particular. Anne On 3 Aug 2009, at 19:21, Roger Young wrote: > Can anyone advise as to whether there any notable gaps in the Parish > Registers caused by the 17C Civil War and more importantly the > subsequent Commonwealth, or was there a basic continuity during the > period 1642 to 1660? > I am writing up my family history at the moment and as background > want to assess the extent to which the records reflect the impact of > the puritan movement in Thanet. My impression is that there are no > notable gaps, or obvious insertions of the missing years after the > Restoration. But I do not have copies of all 7 parishes to hand. > certainly Lewis writing in the 1720/30s does not make much of an > issue of war and Commonwealt affecting Thanet. > Many thanks. > Roger Young > > -------------------------------

Can anyone advise as to whether there any notable gaps in the Parish Registers caused by the 17C Civil War and more importantly the subsequent Commonwealth, or was there a basic continuity during the period 1642 to 1660? I am writing up my family history at the moment and as background want to assess the extent to which the records reflect the impact of the puritan movement in Thanet. My impression is that there are no notable gaps, or obvious insertions of the missing years after the Restoration. But I do not have copies of all 7 parishes to hand. certainly Lewis writing in the 1720/30s does not make much of an issue of war and Commonwealt affecting Thanet. Many thanks. Roger Young

So we are distantly related! How nice to find a new (however remote!) cousin. Joan. 2009/7/31 Joan Smith <[email protected]>: > Thank you for replying to my message Mike. > My Woodchurch line is:- > William & Sarah (Marten) >               l > William (b.1761) & Mary (Ramsden) >               l > Stephen (b. 1793) who had a younger brother Richard (b.1804). > > Is it possible that this is your Richard (son of William)? > Joan. > > > > 2009/7/30 Mike Langston <[email protected]>: >> >> My ancestor Edward Langston married an Elsie Winifred Barman in 1931, she was the daughter of Richard Barman, the son of Charles Barman, the son of Richard BArman, the son of William Barman. Not quite your area but similar family as they came from Woodchurch. >> >>> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:14:31 +0100 >>> From: [email protected] >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] BARMAN >>> >>> One of the names I am researching is BARMAN and I have lots of >>> information about them when they lived in Woodchurch and afterwards in >>> New Romney, but the earliest I can find in Woodchurch is William who >>> was married in 1749. >>> >>> I have have no idea from where they came before that. >>> >>> However, I see that there are many earlier BARMANs in St Lawrence >>> Thanet, and some in St Peter Thanet, and wonder if these are my >>> earlier ancestors. >>> >>> Sadly KFHS do not have these records on CD and they are not covered by >>> Barry White's site. >>> Does anyone know of any other sources I can access please? >>> >>> I am too far away, and too old, to be able to get to Kent easily but >>> am very happy to buy anything that will help me in my research and >>> would be grateful for any suggestions (I have the IGI microfiches for >>> Kent). >>> Joan. >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Windows Live Messenger: Celebrate 10 amazing years with free winks and emoticons. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >

Richard was born in abt.1804, Woodchurch and married Maria Pearson Richard's parents were William Barman and Mary Ramsden So it seems these are the same > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:26:14 +0100 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Isle-of-Thanet] BARMAN > > Thank you for replying to my message Mike. > My Woodchurch line is:- > William & Sarah (Marten) > l > William (b.1761) & Mary (Ramsden) > l > Stephen (b. 1793) who had a younger brother Richard (b.1804). > > Is it possible that this is your Richard (son of William)? > Joan. > > > > 2009/7/30 Mike Langston <[email protected]>: > > > > My ancestor Edward Langston married an Elsie Winifred Barman in 1931, she was the daughter of Richard Barman, the son of Charles Barman, the son of Richard BArman, the son of William Barman. Not quite your area but similar family as they came from Woodchurch. > > > >> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:14:31 +0100 > >> From: [email protected] > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] BARMAN > >> > >> One of the names I am researching is BARMAN and I have lots of > >> information about them when they lived in Woodchurch and afterwards in > >> New Romney, but the earliest I can find in Woodchurch is William who > >> was married in 1749. > >> > >> I have have no idea from where they came before that. > >> > >> However, I see that there are many earlier BARMANs in St Lawrence > >> Thanet, and some in St Peter Thanet, and wonder if these are my > >> earlier ancestors. > >> > >> Sadly KFHS do not have these records on CD and they are not covered by > >> Barry White's site. > >> Does anyone know of any other sources I can access please? > >> > >> I am too far away, and too old, to be able to get to Kent easily but > >> am very happy to buy anything that will help me in my research and > >> would be grateful for any suggestions (I have the IGI microfiches for > >> Kent). > >> Joan. > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Windows Live Messenger: Celebrate 10 amazing years with free winks and emoticons. > > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Messenger: Happy 10-Year Anniversary—get free winks and emoticons. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/