Hello Listers Thanks to all who answered my query. I should have mentioned that my 2xgreatgrandmother was only 25yrs old when she died and on the dc it was written 'serous apoplexy 3 days'. There is another word in small letters above 'serous' but I am unable to read this as the border line around the writing runs through it. She had given birth 6 months previously. Once again Thank You all for your help. Regards Mary Australia

Hi Mary Just Google it and all will be revealed Daryl from Oz -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mary Hart Sent: Friday, 16 October 2009 9:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] Cause of death Hello Listers Could anyone tell me what 'Serous Apoplexy' was. It is the cause of death for my 2x great grandmother in 1874. Kind Regards Mary Australia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Listers Could anyone tell me what 'Serous Apoplexy' was. It is the cause of death for my 2x great grandmother in 1874. Kind Regards Mary Australia

Suzannah: Thank you so very much for searching out the excellent information. This fills in so many gaps and opens up a few more questions but does solve most the mystery with Ivy. Very much appreciate contacting the two on Genesrunited, and for the extra leads that I will follow up on. If you are able to take a photo of the building today, it would be a treat to see what it now looks like, it must be near a 100 or more years old. Your Lewis wedding account is remarkable in it's length and it the type of gifts given for a society wedding. These Rootsweb lists always come through with the tough ones. If you need any help with research up in Angus, Scotland or out here in British Columbia, feel free to ask. Arlene and Thank you to Joan of this list for the suggestions regarding the local golf club, I have sent off an email and anxiously awaiting a reply. Arlene Victoria BC

In loving memory of William DENNE of Sarre Who passed peacefully away November 29th 1922 Aged 74 years The steps of a good man Are ordered by the Lord Also of Frances DENNE of Sarre beloved wife of the above Who was called to her rest October 31st 1905 Aged 70 years and 11 months. (Have Photo)

In loving memory of Mary Wootton BIRCH Who died April 22nd 1907 Aged 84 years At Rest Also of Annie WISEMAN Daughter of the above Who died February 14th 1920 Aged 74 years At Rest (Have Photo)

In loving memory of our death Mother Caroline JEZZARD Who died May 11th 1904 Aged 82 years Also Henry JEZZARD Our dear father Who died November 18th 1895 Aged 76 years Who was interred in the Churchyard beside his two daughters Esther Ann and Emma His son in Law Thomas YOUNG and three granddaughters Thy will be done (Have Photo)

In loving memory of Dear father and mother John GAMBRILL 21 years Sexton of St Nicholas Who fell aleep April 28th 1906 Aged 77 years Also Fanny Maria GAMBRILL Beloved wife of the above Who departed this life September 18th 1908 Aged 77 years and 3 months (Have Photo)

Right, where to start Firstly. There wasn't an announcement for Ivy Keene nee Falconer. 1971-1975 Electoral Rolls Ivy is living on her own at Flat 4, 18 Queen Elizabeth Avenue. I would think none of her family were local so nothing put in the paper. This is a nice area overlooking Northdown Park. Good news on Herbert though. Isle of Thanet Gazette 4th August 1961 KEENE, on 27th July 1961 at Margate Hospital Herbert Charles aged 76. Beloved husband of Ivy and dear father of Kathleen, Queenie and Charles. At Rest   I checked the earlier directories and electoral rolls. 1920 Kelly's Directory Herbert Keene, The Gables, Westcliff Gardens 1926 and 1929 Electoral Roll Herbert C Keene, Sandhurst, West cliff Gardens Westbrook 1932-1938 Electoral Rolls Herbert Charles Keene and wife Mabel Gertrude at West Wing, Royal Esplanade By 1939 he is alone in the house with son Herbert Charles Keene Junior. 1933-1939 Kelly's Herbert is at a house named West Wing on Royal Esplanade, Westbrook 1948 Electoral Roll Herbert and Ivy appear at West Wing, by 1958 this is numbered 64 Royal Esplanade. I googled it and currently, the Secretary of Margate Amatuer Boxing Club lives here! Next time I am passing Sea Road and this house (I don't drive but have use of a car) I shall photograph the buildings for you. Herbert married Marriages Jun 1907    KEENE  Herbert Charles    Edmonton  3a 839 PRATT  Mabel Gertrude    Edmonton  3a 839 Births Jun 1908   Keene  Queenie Winifred    Edmonton  3a 573 Births Sep 1909   KEENE  Herbert Charles    Edmonton  3a 509 Births Dec 1919   Keene  Kathleen M  Pratt  Edmonton  3a 1278 Mabel Gertrude Keene died Q Dec 1939 Thanet Vol 2a Page 1685 aged 56 years. Born Births Dec 1883    PRATT  Mabel Gertrude    Islington  1b 398 Daughter Queenie married Marriages Jun 1931   Keene  Queenie W  Edgley  Edmonton  3a 1516 EDGLEY  Leslie C  Keene  Edmonton  3a 1516 Children Births Dec 1932   Edgley  David C L  Keene  Edmonton  3a 1033   Births Mar 1935   Edgley  Peter H  Keene  Croydon  2a 808 I have contacted two people for you on Genesreunited who have both Mabel G Pratt and Kathleen M Keene 1919 in their family tree. I shall let you know what I find and put you in touch. Going back to Glenthorne and Helen Leonard 1936-7 Electoral Roll Ivy Mary Falconer, Helen Mary Leonard and Maud Constance Harlow are listed. 1938 same as above by minus Maud C Harlow. By 1939 the hotel has been numbered as 51 Sea Road. Helen M Leonard does not appear at Glenthorne until the 1927 Kelly's Directory. In 1920 a William Henry Wickham was proprietor and the hotel named the same, Glenthorne from 1921-1926 the hotel isn't listed. You could contact the Land Registry, see if they hold anything. I would suggest it was requisitioned around 1941 and a contract of sorts would have had to been drawn up. Not the best picture as just a sketch, but 51 Sea Road (Glenthorne) is now the London School of English http://www.london-house.co.uk/ Kind Regards Suzannah ________________________________ From: Suzannah Foad <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, 14 October, 2009 10:34:55 PM Subject: Re: [Isle-of-Thanet] Ivy FALCONER 1912-1975 - Herbert KEENE 1940 Thanet Herbert Charles KEENE died Q Sep 1961 Thanet Vol 5a Page 714 aged 76 years. Thus making him born c.1885. Herbert was roughly 27 years older than Ivy. I can look for an obituary for both of the above hopefully after the weekend. You mention UK death certificates do not give you much information but sadly neither do our 'obituaries' over here for the 1950's onwards. What you get is more of an announcement. Sometimes you might be lucky to get a mention of family members or a funeral date, but unless the person was of local 'note', a Mayor, long term family business, churchgoers, corporation workers and so on, most 'normal' folk would just have a few lines. Its a shame as 100 years ago you would have had full reports on anything to fill the paper. Just have a look at this wedding announcement from 1901 I posted in 2006. http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/isle-of-thanet/2006-02/1140038856 I shall certainly see what I can find for you.  I have a 1934  and 1938 Electoral Roll for Westgate on Sea which lists Helen Mary Leonard, Glenthorne Sea Road Ivy Mary Falconer, Glenthorne, Sea Road Just in  case a relation Albert Edward and Marguerite Leonard, Hurlingham Lodge, Sea Road Herbert is living at Royal Esplanade in my 1948 Kelly's Directory. No Leonard. Will send what I find as soon as I can get to the library Kid Regards Suzannah ________________________________ From: Arlene Halme <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, 13 October, 2009 3:45:30 AM Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] new to list looking for Ivy FALCONER married to Herbert KEENE Mar 1940 died 1975 Looking for assistance in tracing Ivy Mary Kirby FALCONER born Perth,  Scotland 1912 , died in Thanet 1975.  Married Herbert C KEENE 1940  Thanet.  Have just ordered their marriage cert in hopes of  determining which of 2 Herbert C KEENE's she married in 1940. Ivy was born to parents Margaret LEONARD born Panbride, Angus,  Scotland and William FALCONER born  Dundee, Angus, Scotland.  They  also had a son Alexander born in Edinburgh.  William was a Lance  Serjeant with the 2nd Royal Scots when he was killed in action in  August 1914 in France.  Margaret later married John HAY and had 2 more  children. When Ivy was about 12 she went to live with Margaret's  sister, Helen LEONARD in Margate (Glenthorne Private Hotel in Sea  Road, Westgate), Kent. Helen had been in the employ of Lord and Lady  Cayzer of Kilperinie, Angus, Scotland and somehow ended up running a  guesthouse.  She had the guesthouse until the Royal Navy appropriated  it during WW2. The family tale was that Ivy married a much older man against the  advice of Helen and Margaret and had a falling out with the family.  When I started into genealogy in 1970 no one had heard of Ivy since  the marriage.  Each Leonard I found had the same response, that no one  had heard from Ivy after her marriage. With the recent addition of the GRO indexes online and the assistance  of some kind listers from the Angus Rootsweb list I have been able to  determine Ivy's marriage in 1940.  I have ordered the cert online in  hopes of obtaining a bit more information such as address in Thanet  and the age of Herbert.  I found 2 Herbert C's one born in 1885 and  the other born in 1909.  If the tale has some truth then the 1885  Herbert is the husband but it could easily be the 1909 Herbert. Wondering if anyone on the list might have access to an obituary in  mid 1975 for Ivy (Died  A M J  1975 Dist Thanet Vol 16 Page 1901) as I  understand an English death cert does not contain very much  information.  The younger Herbert C. died in May 1990 in Barnet,  London (died A M J 1990 Vol 11, page 180, Reg 590) but could not find  an appropriate death for the older Herbert C. I believe Ivy and Helen could have been members of the Westgate and  Birchington Golf Club is it possible this Herbert C. Keene was also a  member. I was able to obtain some information from British Phone books and it  appears H.C. Keene lived at West Wing, Royal Esplanade Margate Thanet  for the 1951, 1952, 1953, 1961  issues then the 1963, 64,70, 71,, 73,  73 and 75 show I. M. Keene at 4 Park Clo, Queen Elizabeth Ave,  Cliftonville, Thanet. Might there  be someone on the list familiar with these two people.  OR where I might search next to confirm I have the right people.  From  a quick search of the birth indexes it does not appear this couple had  children. Thank you for any assistance or leads in this mystery. Arlene Canada ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

OF THE APOPLEXY. THE apoplexy is a sudden loss of sense and motion, wherein the patient is to all appearance dead; the heart and lungs however still continue to move. Though this disease proves often fatal, yet it may sometimes be removed by proper care. It chiefly attacks sedentary persons of a gross habit, who use a rich and plentiful diet, and indulge in strong liquors. People in the decline of life are most subject to the apoplexy. It prevails most in winter, especially in rainy seasons, and very low states of the barometer. CAUSES. -The immediate cause of an apoplexy is a compression of the brain, occasioned by an excess of blood, or a collection of watery humours. The former is called a sanguine, and the latter a serous apoplexy. It may be occasioned by any thing that increases the circulation towards the brain, or prevents the return of the blood from the head; as intense study; violent passions; viewing objects for a long time obliquely; wearing any thing too tight about the neck, a rich and luxurious diet; suppression of urine; suffering the body to cool suddenly after having been greatly heated; continuing long in a warm bath; the excessive use of spiceries, or high-seasoned food; excess of venery; the sudden striking in of any eruption; suffering issues, setons, &c. suddenly to dry up, or the stoppage of any customary evacuation; a mercurial salivation pushed too far, or suddenly checked by cold; wounds or bruises on the head; long exposure to excessive cold; poisonous exhalations, &c. I knew a woman who in a violent fit of anger was seized with a sanguine apoplexy. She at first complained of extreme pain, as if daggers had been thrust through her head, as she expressed it. Afterwards she became comatose, her pulse sunk very low, and was exceeding slow. By bleeding, blistering, and other evacuations, she was kept alive for about a fortnight. When her head was opened, a large quantity of extravasated blood was found in the left ventricle of the brain. SYMPTOMS, and method of cure. - The usual forerunners of an apoplexy are giddiness, pain and swimming of the head; loss of memory; drowsiness; noise in the ears; the night-mare; a spontaneous flux of tears, and laborious respiration. When persons of an apoplectic make observe these symptoms, they have reason to fear the approach of a fit, and should endeavour to prevent it by bleeding, a slender diet, and opening medicines. IN the sanguine apoplexy, if the patient does not die suddenly, the countenance appears florid, the face is swelled or puffed up, and the blood-vessels, especially about the neck and temples, are turgid; the pulse beats strong; the eyes are prominent and fixed, and the breathing is difficult, and performed with a snorting noise. The excrements and urine are often voided spontaneously, and the patient is sometimes seized with vomiting. IN this species of apoplexy every method must be taken to lessen the force of the circulation towards the head. The patient should be kept perfectly easy and cool. His head should be raised pretty high, and his feet suffered to hang down. His clothes ought to be loosened, especially about the neck, and fresh air admitted into his chamber. His garters should be tied pretty tight, by which means the motion of the blood from the lower extremities will be retarded. As soon as the patient is placed in a proper posture, he should be bled freely in the neck or arm, and, if there be occasion, the operation may be repeated in two or three hours. A laxative clyster, with plenty of sweet oil, or fresh butter, and a spoonful or two of common salt in it, may be administered every two hours; and blistering-plasters applied betwixt the shoulders, and to the calves of the legs. AS soon as the symptoms are a little abated, and the patient is able to swallow, he ought to drink freely of some diluting opening liquor, as a decoction of tamarinds and liquorice, cream-tartar-whey, or common whey with cream of tartar dissolved in it. Or he may take any cooling purge, as Glauber's salts, manna dissolved in an infusion of senna, or the like. All spirits and other strong liquors are to be avoided. Even volatile salts held to the nose do mischief. Vomits, for the same reason, ought not to be given, nor any thing that may increase the motion of the blood towards the head. IN the serous apoplexy, the symptoms are nearly the same, only the pulse is not so strong, the countenance is less florid, and the breathing less difficult. Bleeding is not so necessary here, as in the former case. It may, however, generally be performed once with safety and advantage, but should not be repeated. The patient should be placed in the same posture as directed above, and should have blistering-plasters applied, and receive opening clysters in the same manner. Purges here are likewise necessary, and the patient may drink strong balm-tea. If he be inclined to sweat, it ought to be promoted by drinking small wine-whey, or an infusion of carduus benedictus. A plentiful sweat kept up for a considerable time, has often carried off a serous apoplexy. WHEN apoplectic symptoms proceed from opium, or other narcotic substances taken into the stomach, vomits are necessary. The patient is generally relieved as soon as he has discharged the poison in this way. PERSONS of an apoplectic make, or those who have been attacked by it, ought to use a very spare and slender diet, avoiding all strong liquors, spiceries, and high-seasoned food. They ought likewise to guard against all violent passions, and to avoid the extremes of heat and cold. The head should be shaved, and daily washed with cold water. The feet ought to be kept warm, and never suffered to continue long wet. The body must be kept open either by food or medicine, and a little blood may be let every spring and fall. Exercise should by no means be neglected; but it ought to be taken in moderation. Nothing has a more happy effect in preventing an apoplexy than perpetual issues or setons; great care however must be taken not to suffer them to dry up, without opening others in their stead. Apoplectic persons ought never to go to rest with a full stomach, or to lie with their heads low, or wear any thing too tight about their necks. ________________________________ From: Mary Hart <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, 16 October, 2009 11:50:36 Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] Cause of death Hello Listers Could anyone tell me what 'Serous Apoplexy' was. It is the cause of death for my 2x great grandmother in 1874. Kind Regards Mary Australia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all, my interests in Thanet are mainly in Ramsgate and Walmer, from c1884 to c1912. Alfred John MILLER, b1861 in Sry, married Annie Emily Jane PEARSON bc1861 at Walmer, and had 11 children born in Lower Walmer and Ramsgate, between 1885 and 1907. The family emigrated to Ontario, Canada c1912. Most of the children married in Ontario, but other associated families from the Thanet area are Cross and Ashby. I am specifically seeking connections with the PEARSONS. Annie's parents were George (Augustus?) PEARSON , b1822 in Walmer, and Sarah WANSTALL? Cheers, Robyn of Oz.

Its quite an out dated term by todays standards but.....   ap·o·plex·y   1. Sudden impairment of neurological function, especially that resulting from a cerebral hemorrhage; a stroke. 2. A sudden effusion of blood into an organ or tissue. ________________________________ From: Mary Hart <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, 16 October, 2009 11:50:36 AM Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] Cause of death Hello Listers Could anyone tell me what 'Serous Apoplexy' was. It is the cause of death for my 2x great grandmother in 1874. Kind Regards Mary Australia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Suzannah, Thank you for the mass of infomation. It has given me some clues to pursue the link between the subject couple and the Minster Workhouse. Regards Pete Martin.   

Edward Budd Esq married Antoinette Sandeman 30th August 1849. He being of full age, Antoinette a minor, daughter of Hugh Fraser Sandeman Esq 1799-1882. Edward was son of another Edward Budd Esq. They married at St Peter's Broadstairs in front of  Mary Southay and Eliza Carey Sandeman     Edward was born Truro 24 April 1815 to Edward and Isabella Palmer. Baptised 3 May 1815 (Age 9 days) St Marys Wesleyan, Truro. Looking at Google, his father may have started a Cornwall newspaper but I cannot see why Edward came to Thanet. I cannot find them on the 1851 census, but there isn't any baptisms for children in Thanet.   I believe Edward to be in Swansea in 1844 West Briton and Cornwall Advertiser - Friday 2nd February, 1844. NEW PATENTS - Among the new patents for January, we find the following:- EDWARD BUDD, Swansea, copper merchant, and W. MORGAN, Swansea, retailer of copper, for improvements in treating or reducing of copper ores, and in the construction of furnaces for treating such part of which improvements are applicable to other ores. W. LONGMAID, Plymouth, accountant, for an improvement in the manufacture of copper, tin, zinc, and peroxide of iron.   It would seem that Edward and Antoinette are buried in Leatherhead Surrey. I have requested a picture of the grave for you.   St Mary and St Nicholas Parish Church Leatherhead, Surrey full name, age, birth year, burial year, relationship Edward Budd 71 1815 1886   Edward Fraser Budd 41 1853 1894 son of Edward Budd Antoinette Budd 94 1828 1922 wife of Edward Budd Mabel Edith Budd 54 1861 1915 daughter of Edward Budd   1861       Budd, Edward 45, Head Copper, Silver and Zinc Merchant, Truro Cornwall, 104 Westbourne Terrace, Paddington, Middlesex       Budd  Antoinette  31 Wife Wife Of Silver Merchant Marylebone, Middlesex  104 Westbourne Terrace, Paddington, Middlesex Budd  Julia  9 Daur Scholar Paddington, Middlesex  104 Westbourne Terrace, Paddington, Middlesex       Budd  Palmer  8 Son Scholar Brighton, Sussex  104 Westbourne Terrace, Paddington, Middlesex    Budd  Edward H  7 Son  Paddington, Middlesex  104 Westbourne Terrace, Paddington, Middlesex Budd  John C  9M Son  Fetcham, Surrey  104 Westbourne Terrace, Paddington, Middlesex       Budd  Ellen M  2 Daur  Paddington, Middlesex  104 Westbourne Terrace, Paddington, Middlesex           Budd  Isabel  3 Daur  Paddington, Middlesex  104 Westbourne Terrace, Paddington, Middlesex       Budd  Hugh S  4 Son  Paddington, Middlesex  104 Westbourne Terrace, Paddington, Middlesex  Frairs  Jane  17 Serv Under Housemaid -, Surrey  104 Westbourne Terrace, Paddington, Middlesex            Haleshp  Mary  24 Serv Housemaid St Johnswood, Middlesex  104 Westbourne Terrace, Paddington, Middlesex     Stevents  Elizabeth  33 Serv Ladys Maid Bishop Storford, Hertfordshire  104 Westbourne Terrace, Paddington, Middlesex          Isles Frances  29 Serv Cook Southwark, Middlesex  104 Westbourne Terrace, Paddington, Middlesex          Ellis  William H  29 Serv Butler Hawkesbury, Gloucester  104 Westbourne Terrace, Paddington, Middlesex             Hervell  Eleanor  18 Serv Nursemaid St Stand, Middlesex  104 Westbourne Terrace, Paddington, Middlesex               Simpson  Sarah A  37 Serv Nurse Bloxham, Oxford  104 Westbourne Terrace, Paddington, Middlesex     ________________________________ From: Peter Martin <[email protected]> To: Thanet <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, 15 October, 2009 4:14:12 PM Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] Edward Budd/Antoinette Sandeman Dear Listers, Please can anyone inform me if Edward Budd (b.1816), who married in 1849 to Antoinette Sandeman (b.1830) in Thanet, was a local benefactor, or what links they both may have had with Thanet. His widow in later life accepted at least 3 girls into her service from the Minster Workhouse, to her house at Frensham in Surrey. Quite a journey. It may be a long shot, but I would like to establish a link if possible. Thank you for any help. Pete Martin.

Dear Listers, Please can anyone inform me if Edward Budd (b.1816), who married in 1849 to Antoinette Sandeman (b.1830) in Thanet, was a local benefactor, or what links they both may have had with Thanet. His widow in later life accepted at least 3 girls into her service from the Minster Workhouse, to her house at Frensham in Surrey. Quite a journey. It may be a long shot, but I would like to establish a link if possible. Thank you for any help. Pete Martin.

In loving memory of Martha Ann The dearly beloved wife of Thomas OVENDEN Of Charity Farm in this parish Died May 23rd 1917 Aged 54 No chilly winds nor poisonous breath Can reach that healthful shore Sickness and sorrow, pain and death Are feared and felt no more Also of Thomas OVEDEN Husband of the above Died February 3rd 1942 Aged 79 years Sleep thy last sleep Free from care and sorrow Rest where none work Till the eternal morrow At the base of the grave In loving memory of our dear Parents Thomas Francis OVENDEN Died September 12th 1975 aged 76 and Florence May OVENDEN Died September 20th 1975 aged 74 Deep in our hearts they will always stay Loved and remembered everyday In loving memory of our sister Violet Primrose OVENDEN Died July 16th 1990 Loved and remembered always (Have Photo)

Herbert Charles KEENE died Q Sep 1961 Thanet Vol 5a Page 714 aged 76 years. Thus making him born c.1885. Herbert was roughly 27 years older than Ivy. I can look for an obituary for both of the above hopefully after the weekend. You mention UK death certificates do not give you much information but sadly neither do our 'obituaries' over here for the 1950's onwards. What you get is more of an announcement. Sometimes you might be lucky to get a mention of family members or a funeral date, but unless the person was of local 'note', a Mayor, long term family business, churchgoers, corporation workers and so on, most 'normal' folk would just have a few lines. Its a shame as 100 years ago you would have had full reports on anything to fill the paper. Just have a look at this wedding announcement from 1901 I posted in 2006. http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/isle-of-thanet/2006-02/1140038856 I shall certainly see what I can find for you.  I have a 1934  and 1938 Electoral Roll for Westgate on Sea which lists Helen Mary Leonard, Glenthorne Sea Road Ivy Mary Falconer, Glenthorne, Sea Road Just in  case a relation Albert Edward and Marguerite Leonard, Hurlingham Lodge, Sea Road Herbert is living at Royal Esplanade in my 1948 Kelly's Directory. No Leonard. Will send what I find as soon as I can get to the library Kid Regards Suzannah ________________________________ From: Arlene Halme <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, 13 October, 2009 3:45:30 AM Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] new to list looking for Ivy FALCONER married to Herbert KEENE Mar 1940 died 1975 Looking for assistance in tracing Ivy Mary Kirby FALCONER born Perth,  Scotland 1912 , died in Thanet 1975.  Married Herbert C KEENE 1940  Thanet.  Have just ordered their marriage cert in hopes of  determining which of 2 Herbert C KEENE's she married in 1940. Ivy was born to parents Margaret LEONARD born Panbride, Angus,  Scotland and William FALCONER born  Dundee, Angus, Scotland.  They  also had a son Alexander born in Edinburgh.  William was a Lance  Serjeant with the 2nd Royal Scots when he was killed in action in  August 1914 in France.  Margaret later married John HAY and had 2 more  children. When Ivy was about 12 she went to live with Margaret's  sister, Helen LEONARD in Margate (Glenthorne Private Hotel in Sea  Road, Westgate), Kent. Helen had been in the employ of Lord and Lady  Cayzer of Kilperinie, Angus, Scotland and somehow ended up running a  guesthouse.  She had the guesthouse until the Royal Navy appropriated  it during WW2. The family tale was that Ivy married a much older man against the  advice of Helen and Margaret and had a falling out with the family.  When I started into genealogy in 1970 no one had heard of Ivy since  the marriage.  Each Leonard I found had the same response, that no one  had heard from Ivy after her marriage. With the recent addition of the GRO indexes online and the assistance  of some kind listers from the Angus Rootsweb list I have been able to  determine Ivy's marriage in 1940.  I have ordered the cert online in  hopes of obtaining a bit more information such as address in Thanet  and the age of Herbert.  I found 2 Herbert C's one born in 1885 and  the other born in 1909.  If the tale has some truth then the 1885  Herbert is the husband but it could easily be the 1909 Herbert. Wondering if anyone on the list might have access to an obituary in  mid 1975 for Ivy (Died  A M J  1975 Dist Thanet Vol 16 Page 1901) as I  understand an English death cert does not contain very much  information.  The younger Herbert C. died in May 1990 in Barnet,  London (died A M J 1990 Vol 11, page 180, Reg 590) but could not find  an appropriate death for the older Herbert C. I believe Ivy and Helen could have been members of the Westgate and  Birchington Golf Club is it possible this Herbert C. Keene was also a  member. I was able to obtain some information from British Phone books and it  appears H.C. Keene lived at West Wing, Royal Esplanade Margate Thanet  for the 1951, 1952, 1953, 1961  issues then the 1963, 64,70, 71,, 73,  73 and 75 show I. M. Keene at 4 Park Clo, Queen Elizabeth Ave,  Cliftonville, Thanet. Might there  be someone on the list familiar with these two people.  OR where I might search next to confirm I have the right people.  From  a quick search of the birth indexes it does not appear this couple had  children. Thank you for any assistance or leads in this mystery. Arlene Canada ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>From The Pall Mall Gazette ( London, England ), Friday, September 13, 1867; Issue 809. MARRIAGE JARMAN - MARTIN -- At St. Peter's, Eaton-square, Mr. S. JARMAN, R.N.R., of Ramsgate., to Maria F., youngest daughter of the late Captain K. B. MARTIN, Harbour-master of Ramsgate, 12th inst.

In loving memory of Martha Ann The dearly beloved wife of Thomas OVENDEN Of Charity Farm in this parish Died May 23rd 1917 Aged 54 No chilly winds nor poisonous breath Can reach that healthful shore Sickness and sorrow, pain and death Are feared and felt no more Also of Thomas OVEDEN Husband of the above Died February 3rd 1942 Aged 79 years Sleep thy last sleep Free from care and sorrow Rest where none work Till the eternal morrow (Have Photo)

Hi Elizabeth There 'were' three sides to this grave. The other side, which I assume would have John's inscription had completely worn away. I have just got back from St Nicholas Cemetery. I popped into the Churchyard yesterday where Hester's Grave was located, got home then found out that there was a small cemetery up the road from the Church so made the other half go back again today!! I'm quite pleased as found four Foad's which I have never come across in all the other Churchyards and cemeteries In Thanet I have been photographing! Will send through now. Regards Suzannah ----- Original Message ---- From: Elizabeth Brooker <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, 14 October, 2009 12:25:07 AM Subject: Re: [Isle-of-Thanet] RAMMELL Grave St Nicholas Churchyard, Thanet Hi Suzannah, This one is one of mine !! and I would truly appreciate a photo of the gravestone whenever you can find the time. This Henrietta Hester Collard was John Wootton Rammell's first wife and to my knowledge they did not have any children.  She was born 1828 Hoath the daughter of James Collard and Hester Lasey.  After Henrietta's death John married Emily Thompson born 1858 Leigh Essex, the widow of Robert Neal Ealdon. The only known child of John W. Rammell and Emily Thompson was John Wootton Rammell 1890-1971, surgeon physician and it would be his initials at the end of the carved inscription. Many thanks for sending the transcription, Suzannah. Sincerely, Elizabeth Brooker, Etobicoke, Ont. Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzannah Foad" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 12:42 PM Subject: [Isle-of-Thanet] RAMMELL Grave St Nicholas Churchyard, Thanet > IN memory of > Henrietta Hester, the beloved wife of John W RAMMELL > Of Shuart in this Parish > Who died at Southsea Hants > The 7th day of February 1877 > Aged 48 years > > In loving memory of my Mother > Emily RAMMELL > Who died on Jan 8th 1918 > JWR > > (Have Photos) > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message