Go raibh maith agat, a Phroinsias. / Thank you, Frank. Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, Jerry Treibheanna Éireannach awww.irishtribes.com --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Frank Kehoe <f784@btinternet.com> wrote: > From: Frank Kehoe <f784@btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [IRL-WICKLOW] (no subject) > To: irl-wicklow@rootsweb.com > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 12:01 PM > What a great piece Jerry, clearly put > and easy to understand. > The pity is we have to look to the Anglo-Norman feudal > system of the last > three or four hundred years (there seems to have been some > coexistence > before the Tudor era) to access the records to get started > and then you get > stuck because the Irish element has been air-brushed. > All good stuff but probably too political for this forum! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry Kelly > Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 4:46 AM > To: irl-wicklow@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-WICKLOW] (no subject) > > Ré:  Tábhacht Ghinealais / Importance of Genealogy > > > > *************************************** > 1- Only leave in the body of the mail what is relevant to > your answer > > 2- Change the SUBJECT LINE to suit the body of your own > Mail to List. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-WICKLOW-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >

It's about fifty-five years since I was addressed as "Phroinsias" and made me feel good and strange at the same time, as it was to see the use of Irish on this List. So I thought I would add one observation in return re. researching. The "Mac" prefix to surnames has been debated here before but I don't recall it being mentioned that in Gaelic it refers to the male! As I am equally interested in maternal lines I would point to the use of the "Nic" prefix to signify the female. Regards, Frank -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Kelly Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 5:08 PM To: irl-wicklow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-WICKLOW] (no subject) Go raibh maith agat, a Phroinsias. / Thank you, Frank. Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, Jerry Treibheanna Éireannach awww.irishtribes.com

Go raibh maith agat, a Phroinsias. Is fíor duit go deimhin. / Thank you, Frank. Absolutely right. As you point out, women in Irish-speaking districts to this day keep their maiden name and add the title 'wife of X'. [I like to kid that fathers-in-law insist that this title is actually 'wife of that amadán X' ;-) ] So, as you point out, we use Mac (son) for boys and Nic (daughter) for girls in the case of Mac surnames like yours - Mac Eochadha for boys and Nic Eochadha for girls. And we use Ó (grandson) for boys and Ní (grand-daughter) for girls in the case of Ó surnames like mine. My daughter is a Ní Cheallaigh / Grand-daughter of Ceallach and my son is an Ó Ceallaigh / Grandson of Ceallach. That's why we still see here in the U.S. phrases like "Nee Kelly" in newspaper wedding announcements. It looks like the French née but it's pronounced as the Irish Ní. Also as you point out, this careful treatment of women's names is found throughout the Irish Language genealogies right back to the taking of surnames about a thousand years ago. Buíochas le Dia go bhful ár dteanga ag teacht ar ais ionas gur féidir linn ár Seanchas a léamh go furasta arís. / Thanks be that our language is coming back so that we can again easily read our own family histories. Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, Jerry Treibheanna Éireannacha www.irishtribes.com --- On Tue, 8/23/11, Frank Kehoe <f784@btinternet.com> wrote: > From: Frank Kehoe <f784@btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [IRL-WICKLOW] (no subject) a titbit > To: irl-wicklow@rootsweb.com > Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2011, 5:26 AM > It's about fifty-five years since I > was addressed as "Phroinsias" and made > me feel good and strange at the same time, as it was to see > the use of Irish > on this List. > So I thought I would add one observation in return re. > researching. > The "Mac" prefix to surnames has been debated here before > but I don't recall > it being mentioned that in Gaelic it refers to the male! As > I am equally > interested in maternal lines I would point to the use of > the  "Nic" prefix > to signify the female. > Regards, > Frank > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry Kelly > Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 5:08 PM > To: irl-wicklow@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-WICKLOW] (no subject) > > Go raibh maith agat, a Phroinsias.  /  Thank you, > Frank. > > Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, > Jerry > > > Treibheanna Éireannach > awww.irishtribes.com > > > > > *************************************** > 1- Only leave in the body of the mail what is relevant to > your answer > > 2- Change the SUBJECT LINE to suit the body of your own > Mail to List. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-WICKLOW-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >