Hi Rachel That makes perfect sense! Thanks so much. We are now discussng how good it would be to have St Patricks celebrations in Dublin again and the valuation office is now on our siteseeing list, along with Jonny Foxes pub to keep hubby happy. I know its a while away yet but half the fun is in imagining what will be discovered. Im aware of Caras notes re not all people being on Griffiths val, perhaps there were other Donnellys knocking about that were not listed but Im havng a good feeling about this- very scentific approach! Thanks for the offer re research details but as long as circumstances mean we can visit Ireland then here we come !- eventually. CAROL On Sep 10, 2009 4:05pm, Rachel Murphy <[email protected]> wrote: > Regarding Carol's query, my understanding from her note is that Michael > Donnelly does appear in Griffith's Valuation. Now, I am not sure whether > the property/land you say Lawrence owned in 1911 is the same as that > which Michael was occupying in 1853, but if it is then you can figure out > exactly what happened between then and 1911 by looking at the Land Books > in the Valuation Office in Dublin.

Regarding Carol's query, my understanding from her note is that Michael Donnelly does appear in Griffith's Valuation.  Now, I am not sure whether the property/land you say Lawrence owned in 1911 is the same as that which Michael was occupying in 1853,  but if it is then you can figure out exactly what happened between then and 1911 by looking at the Land Books in the Valuation Office in Dublin. These basically show any updates that occurred in land-ownership and occupation from a few years after Griffith's Valuation right up to well into the 20th century - any of the items mentioned in the original Valuation are updated as the information changes - names, values and sizes of landholdings etc. - along with the dates for when these changes occurred.  So, Carol, assuming the book for your parish has survived (most are there but some are missing), you would be able to see if / when the land transferred from Michael to Lawrence, and when Lawrence bought the land out himself (if it was the subject of a land act purchase this information will be given along with a date).  Even if Lawrence was in a different property from the one Michael was living in at the time of Griffith's Valuation, you can still get some information that might help.  If you know the details of where Lawrence was living in the 1911 census then you can look at the land book for that area and figure out when he moved into the property by working backwards through the information - this at least would give you a date for when he moved there, and the name of the person who was living there before him, any lessors etc. I hope this explanation makes sense!  Unfortunately the land books have not been microfilmed yet, so you would have to make a trip to Dublin to view them or else get a researcher to review the documents for you (the research company I work for offers this service so send me a private message if you would like to know more about this). Hope this helps, Rachel Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Thanks Cara for the info re deeds and how miners lived. ive been thnking about the homes dotted about on old maps and indeed still today when you wander about the countrysde. How different it must have been for the Wicklow folk when they moved to England to work in the mines- terraces of houses all huddled together near (and sometimes not so near) the pits. The life will certainly have been no harder than the one they left behind but much different from a dwelling in a field and the nearest neighbour in the next field. Will the miners have farmed for themselves or to sell their produce? Or even did they live as tenants (as shown often on griffths val)and get paid to farm the land from the landowner and then work in the mines to supplement that living rather than use the farming to supplement the income from the mine? As usual my mind is certainly not in the here and now. carol

Allowing that they married in the Females Parish would that then make her Wicklow born and he returned to Kildare as his home parish? I have Smullen and Morgan but not an Edward Smullen married to an Ellen Morgan Sorry Cara ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 1:37 PM Subject: [IRL-WICKLOW] Smullen > Searching for an Edward Smullen who was born in 1800. It is possible his > name was John Edward. > > Somewhere between 1820-1826 Edward married Ellen Morgan born in 1802. By > 1826 they were living in Cowpasture, Co Kildare and had their child Mary > Ann > baptized in the RC Monasterevin Parish. They lived in Pass(land) by 1828 > when their son Patrick was baptized and by 1830 were in Ballagh when > daughter Catherine was baptized. Daughter Eliza may have been born in > 1832 before > their departure for the US. The family had emigrated to the US where they > settle in Orange Co NY at first recording in 1850. > > Edward & Ellen's children were as follows: > > Mary Ann born ? baptised 18 Jun 1826 Cowpasture > Kildare > Patrick born 5 July 1828 baptized 10 Aug 1828 Passland > Kildare married Sarah Yarrington > Catherine born 12 July 1830 baptized 18 Jul 1830 Ballagh > Kildare married Patrick Finn > Eliza 1832-1833 > ??? married Thomas Doran > Jane 1841 > ??? married Thomas looney > Ester/Easter 1844 > ??? > Theresa 1845 twin > New York married William Moran > Ellen 1845 twin > New York married John Krone > John Edward born Jun 1848 New > York married Anna C Hayes > William H born 1850 > New York may have married an Ellen Nichol > > Edward worked as a hostler and as farmer labor. It was rumored that Mary > Ann returned to Ireland to become a Nun. > > If you have any information or suggestions as to where else I may look for > this family please email me. > > Melissa in PA at [email protected] > *************************************** > 1- Only leave in the body of the mail what is relevant to your answer > > 2- Change the SUBJECT LINE to suit the body of your own Mail to List. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.82/2351 - Release Date: 09/07/09 06:40:00

Carol This would mean a closer look at deeds for the ownership of a home, which would of course mean a return trip to Ireland ( God give your husband strength for the return trip) and looking at deeds ascertaining when the home was bought. So that means a return trip for you to Co Wicklow - I also at the risk of getting in hot water again must point out that Griffiths although used often, did not always have every name in his valuation, you had to own land to be recorded to begin with. And although he must have worked hard to own a cottage or even some land, you will find that 90% of the miners turned to the land as their second job, so whilst mining they were also mine labourers, saving their pennies, and in turn actually turning fully to farming. So if he had land when he died and the Irish laws had not arrived where farms were taken ( now I know that is not quite the correct wording ) his would have passed to his first born, and if no son, it would have went to a brother, or sold and divided. So you also need to be looking for wills as well. Hope this gives you more food for thought because my word you certainly keep us all bouncing with your in depth questions. Keep it up, nothing like an active mind to get one thinking. Cara ----- Original Message ----- From: "carol griffiths" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 10:35 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-WICKLOW] Landowners info needed > Thanks Christina and Mimi for the list of landowners. > > Does anyone know how to get info about someone who owned his home 1911 > census and didnt seem to 1870 and certainly didnt circa 1853 Griffths > val > > I refer to Lawrence Donnelly a miner living in Cronebane, born 1840, > on Griffiths val his dad Michael Donnelly is bracketed together with > John Donnelly in Cronebane. they are tenants. i understand this to > mean they had seperate dwellngs and were each responsble for their own > rent but if one defaulted then the other was equally responsible for > the entire rent? (im thinking they were related to be in this > situation?) > By 1911 Lawrence is shown on census to own his property. > > Im hoping to find out when/how he bought his home and what happened to > it when he died, he was unmarried and living alone on census. Im > thinking he must have worked hard to do this and maybe there is > another family member knocking about who he left his home to. > > Any thoughts no matter how fanciful always welcome. > > > carol > *************************************** > 1- Only leave in the body of the mail what is relevant to your answer > > 2- Change the SUBJECT LINE to suit the body of your own Mail to List. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.82/2351 - Release Date: 09/07/09 06:40:00

When I first recorded Aris 's details I showed him as female. My mistake he is MALE. He was born 13th Dec 1854 he died 21 Apr 1934 His grave stone shows his residence Wentworth House Wicklow His father was Samuel Manning MD Sorry if I have lead you astray Regards Dave

Aris farther was he was born 13 Dec 1854 and died 21 Apr 1934 living in Wentworth House Wicklow Orginally I had shown Ariss

hi all, i'm clutching at straws but i'm hoping for a lead on a possible dead end on my family tree. i can't get anywhere on tracing my great grandmother Ada Mabel Hickson. She lists her parents as William Hickson and ann Grant but I have no idea where they come from or any other information. I can't find births deaths or marriages for them here in australia. I have ada's death as she died in australia. She had a sister called sarah hickson. Any help greatly appreciated. Kerry Murray Australia.

Hi Frank Thanks so much for that- im jumpng for joy here. I had the ref of Griffths val but always thought Cronebane was at the bottom of the bank from the Mottee stone, looking at the map on ask about Ireland the Donnelly homes were at the top just before you get to the car park by the Mottee Stone coming from the methodist church Conary direction(my directions so liable to be wrong). This sounds really corny but me and Mick sheltered under a hedge there June 08 during the heaviest ran we have experienced. We must have been pretty much on the exact spot!!!!! We then dried out on the Motte Stone in lovely sunshine before going down to The Meetings for a Guinness or 3. I cant believe my luck at having this experience and am literally shaking. CARA If you are reading this and dispute my map reading then put me right cos i know how good you are at it- ha ha. It sounds to me as if I need to go to Dublin to visit the office for myself. No guarantee that lawrence Donnelly always lived in the same house as Mchael- his dad, but it sounds lke its worth a look into. Again many thanks Frank for pointing me in this whole new direction- and for initiating a trip to Dublin. Carol

Carol,get the Lot Number, obtained from the first column of Griffith's http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/gv_place_search_form.php then ,,from the townland map you can establish the exact location and address of the property, this will enable you to obtain a Property Number - the VO map is not yet online, the very helpful staff will do it for you if you can visit the office, handily located near the General Records Office in the 'Irish Life' building - from the property number a list of occupier's names can be obtained back to 1850s, with dates of registration. Be aware, not everyone registered when they inherited, so a person can still be on the list long after they are dead. ---- Original Message ----- From: "carol griffiths" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-WICKLOW] Landowners info needed > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 4:02 AM, Frank Kehoe<[email protected]> wrote: >> Carol, go to http://www.valoff.ie/index.html > > > Many thanks to Frank for that great link - I feel as though Im snoopng > at current householders- sorry folks but seeing familiar names still > living in the area is great. > > the archive service looks very interesting, I will certanly be having > a think about that and it wll be on my christmas pressie list- beats > perfume etc anyday. > > Im thinking that combined with lawrence Donnellys death cert will give > me more info on his life and even if he isnt connected to me(which im > sure he is), he's grown on me now and feels like one of mine. > > HAS ANYONE USED THE ARCHIVE SERVICE AND IF SO WHAT INFO DD YOU GET FOR > RESIDENTIAL PROPERTES? > > thanks again > > carol > *************************************** > 1- Only leave in the body of the mail what is relevant to your answer > > 2- Change the SUBJECT LINE to suit the body of your own Mail to List. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Peter I have seen the name of Moules, Moles, Mowlds and Moulds and I suspect they are a derivative of your name, but I do not have the necessary people you need in my data base. But I did locate these from data not yet put in the data base. With your spelling I have not looked at my other parish registers John Moules died 15/8/1856 aged 47 Wife Sarah died 5/10/1898 aged 76 Who had children 1-3 -Three died young 4 Cathereine married ? Meegan she resided at Upper Aughrim 1a- Edward Meegan died 28/7/1896 aged 18 2a-James Meegan died 9/3/1803 aged 33 3a-Katie Meegan died 28/5/1908 aged 20 Her husband Edward Meegan died 30/3/1914 aged 82 and Catherien hersellf died 1/9/1926 aged 80 5-John died 29/8/1877 aged 34 6-Robert died 27/6/1881 aged 38 years. Associate names to these people are Margaret Sexton died 1/4/1966 Marcella Lindley died 24/6/1969 May be children of Catherine Meegan All are interred in Macreddin Upper Co Wicklow Ireland I would be happy to establish any contact with any names i have gathered over the years in my data base, but like all that take up this Irish family history search, find it just as hard as the next to scramble over the brick walls that are created by missing registers etc.............but the secret is ----------- to be like, a good jam, spread the known facts on thick and keep on looking, and asking, a perfect researcher is Carol, she asks she delves she makes you think and by goodness I do so hope we hear the yodel from UK to Tasmania the day she gets the missing link to join all her dots. So keep on asking Peter, nothing ventured nothing gained. Cara

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 4:02 AM, Frank Kehoe<[email protected]> wrote: > Carol, go to http://www.valoff.ie/index.html Many thanks to Frank for that great link - I feel as though Im snoopng at current householders- sorry folks but seeing familiar names still living in the area is great. the archive service looks very interesting, I will certanly be having a think about that and it wll be on my christmas pressie list- beats perfume etc anyday. Im thinking that combined with lawrence Donnellys death cert will give me more info on his life and even if he isnt connected to me(which im sure he is), he's grown on me now and feels like one of mine. HAS ANYONE USED THE ARCHIVE SERVICE AND IF SO WHAT INFO DD YOU GET FOR RESIDENTIAL PROPERTES? thanks again carol

Carol, go to http://www.valoff.ie/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "carol griffiths" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-WICKLOW] Landowners info needed > Thanks Christina and Mimi for the list of landowners. > > Does anyone know how to get info about someone who owned his home 1911 >

Searching for an Edward Smullen who was born in 1800. It is possible his name was John Edward. Somewhere between 1820-1826 Edward married Ellen Morgan born in 1802. By 1826 they were living in Cowpasture, Co Kildare and had their child Mary Ann baptized in the RC Monasterevin Parish. They lived in Pass(land) by 1828 when their son Patrick was baptized and by 1830 were in Ballagh when daughter Catherine was baptized. Daughter Eliza may have been born in 1832 before their departure for the US. The family had emigrated to the US where they settle in Orange Co NY at first recording in 1850. Edward & Ellen's children were as follows: Mary Ann born ? baptised 18 Jun 1826 Cowpasture Kildare Patrick born 5 July 1828 baptized 10 Aug 1828 Passland Kildare married Sarah Yarrington Catherine born 12 July 1830 baptized 18 Jul 1830 Ballagh Kildare married Patrick Finn Eliza 1832-1833 ??? married Thomas Doran Jane 1841 ??? married Thomas looney Ester/Easter 1844 ??? Theresa 1845 twin New York married William Moran Ellen 1845 twin New York married John Krone John Edward born Jun 1848 New York married Anna C Hayes William H born 1850 New York may have married an Ellen Nichol Edward worked as a hostler and as farmer labor. It was rumored that Mary Ann returned to Ireland to become a Nun. If you have any information or suggestions as to where else I may look for this family please email me. Melissa in PA at [email protected]

Thanks Christina and Mimi for the list of landowners. Does anyone know how to get info about someone who owned his home 1911 census and didnt seem to 1870 and certainly didnt circa 1853 Griffths val I refer to Lawrence Donnelly a miner living in Cronebane, born 1840, on Griffiths val his dad Michael Donnelly is bracketed together with John Donnelly in Cronebane. they are tenants. i understand this to mean they had seperate dwellngs and were each responsble for their own rent but if one defaulted then the other was equally responsible for the entire rent? (im thinking they were related to be in this situation?) By 1911 Lawrence is shown on census to own his property. Im hoping to find out when/how he bought his home and what happened to it when he died, he was unmarried and living alone on census. Im thinking he must have worked hard to do this and maybe there is another family member knocking about who he left his home to. Any thoughts no matter how fanciful always welcome. carol

Hi all I'm unfamiliar with Wicklow records. I'm trying to find out more about Ellen McEVOY, aka Ellen Byrne Hughes. Known facts ... 1. Ellen was sent from Wicklow to Australia aboard the Asia in 1829, as a convict, sentenced for 7 years. Her crime was stealing butter. Ellen's Certificate of Freedom, dated 10 October 1836, states that her trial took place in Wicklow in 1829. 2. Ellen had a child named James who accompanied her to Australia. James was born in the UK in about 1828. 3. Ellen and Henry ADAMS applied to marry in Australia, however the marriage application was rejected in April 1832, with the reason being due to “Not allowed - female being already married”. 4. All records indicate Ellen was born in 1802 in Wicklow, though give or take a year. Questions ... i. Does anyone have access to Wicklow marriage records, and if so, is there any record of an Ellen, with maiden name of BYRNE, HUGHES, BYRNE- HUGHES, or McEVOY, having married a HUGHES, BYRNE or McEVOY? ii. Is there a record of a James McEVOY (or BYRNE or HUGHES) having been born or baptised in Wicklow around 1828, with mother's name Ellen ? iii. Is there a record of an Ellen McEVOY or BYRNE or HUGHES having been born in Wicklow in 1802, or would this be too long a list? Regards, Steven

This update was in my drafts folder so evidently I never sent it out. Sorry. NEW! Under the heading Headstones - Wicklow Parish Church, Wicklow. This comprises additional photos and transcription from Yvonne Russell. Again very old stones. Under the heading Church - Wicklow CoI Burials - ATKINSON, BESTIL, BRYAN, HAYES, VICERS/VICARS (Yvonne) Powerscourt Church of Ireland, Burials - BOOTH/BOOTHE Powerscourt Church of Ireland, Baptisms - BOOTH/BOOTHE These two from Joyce Tunstead. All the best, Christina

Hi, I have just uploaded the 1870's Landowners for Wicklow to the IGP Archives. This was transcribed by Mimi Taylor. To view go to http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ Click on WICKLOW & Census Substitutes. Thanks, Christina

A few months ago I put together for myself a finding aid listing nineteenth century Irish Registration Districts (aka Superintendent Registrar's Districts, originally Poor Law Unions), the sub-districts (aka Registrar's Districts, originally Dispensary Districts) they contain, and the Registration Districts adjacent to them, for use in researching civil registration records. In case this is useful to others, I have put it online at my site http://genealogyresearch.org.uk . It can be downloaded as a searchable PDF file. The contents were researched from publicly available sources, backed up by the excellent "A New Genealogical Atlas of Ireland" by Brian Mitchell. The finding aid does not list townlands, but note that these are searchable via the excellent website http://www.seanruad.com . I hope this is helpful to someone. Michael Thompson [email protected] http://www.one-name.org/profiles/condran.html http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~condran http://condran.blogspot.com

Michael, Thank you so much for sharing this information! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Thompson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 10:08 AM Subject: [IRL-WICKLOW] Irish registration districts and sub-districts >A few months ago I put together for myself a finding aid listing > nineteenth century Irish Registration Districts (aka Superintendent > Registrar's Districts, originally Poor Law Unions), the sub-districts > (aka Registrar's Districts, originally Dispensary Districts) they > contain, and the Registration Districts adjacent to them, for use in > researching civil registration records. > > In case this is useful to others, I have put it online at my site > http://genealogyresearch.org.uk . It can be downloaded as a > searchable PDF file. > > The contents were researched from publicly available sources, backed > up by the excellent "A New Genealogical Atlas of Ireland" by Brian > Mitchell. The finding aid does not list townlands, but note that > these are searchable via the excellent website http://www.seanruad.com . > > I hope this is helpful to someone. > > Michael Thompson > [email protected] > > http://www.one-name.org/profiles/condran.html > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~condran > http://condran.blogspot.com > > > > *************************************** > 1- Only leave in the body of the mail what is relevant to your answer > > 2- Change the SUBJECT LINE to suit the body of your own Mail to List. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >