Listers...... I think it only fair to make a proposal. Let's all meet, next April, in Dunn's Store in Wexford town.....of course in the knickers department. No need to worry about sizes.....Cyril is also helpful in converting Euro sizing to U.S. sizing. I am flabbergasted by Daz' wonderful poem, and can understand the "scant" mention of my name, Cyril, as the knickers were a bit scanty, if memory serves me. I'll have a good laugh tonight. Cheers, Peggy

http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/australia/1825-1832.htm Now you couldnt find a better searchable site for passengers simply go to the site click on passenger lists and place your name search in the middle box and you will amazed at who went where And I know for sure there are Wicklow passengers there I have seen them but along with that there is other ports of entry other than Australia Cheers Cara

I did get my Degree in Liverpool Daz! A Class 1 in Car theft!...Lol. We only did the Agricultural thing here in Ireland as a kid. slan Cyril... ----- Original Message ----- From: <DAZBT@aol.com> To: <IRL-WICKLOW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [Wicklow] Cyril Newsome > Thank goodness for that acceptance Cyril, the Gorman fitted the "blue" (Gorm > = blue) was near enough to Garman as a pun and the blue was as a small dig at > your Liverpudlian rearing. > Cheers and thanks. > > > ==== IRL-WICKLOW Mailing List ==== > Stick to the lists Golden Rule and you will never go wrong, Co Wicklow genealogy~history~news~ and be nice to one another. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > >

Daz, you have made my day with that, and the "Queer One" says nice one! Sorry Peggy, mention of yourself is scant! It would seem our encounter in Dunne's Stores is to live on forever! Just one point Daz, the mention of the Blue Knight? I'm a Liverpool Supporter (Reds). After Wexford's Hurling Team of course, The "Purple and Gold". Mind you, it took Peggy a long time to figure out that Loch Garman was in fact Co. Wexford! Yella Bellies to the last! slan Cyril.. ----- Original Message ----- From: <DAZBT@aol.com> To: <IRL-WICKLOW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [Wicklow] Cyril Newsome > It is often too easy to misunderstand the written words posted in this cyber > world, which I am sure that Cyril would agree with. I would like to "third" > the support of Cyril but as one who knows only too well it can be all too easy > to grasp the wrong conclusion about someone. I hope that no-one gets the wrong > idea about this; > > A KNIGHT OUT IN WEXFORD > > Sir Cyril, Blue Knight of Gorman > Lady Cara's chosen corpsman > Jousting master of gentle mirth > This man of spirit and easy girth > A virtual icon so sober of soul > To assist and encourage his only goal > As he guides along the Wicklow Way > The cyber pilgrims of our today > If help you need in ancestral quests > You'll find him at Dunnes in knickers and vests. > > Regards Daz..........forgive me Cyril. > > > ==== IRL-WICKLOW Mailing List ==== > Stick to the lists Golden Rule and you will never go wrong, Co Wicklow genealogy~history~news~ and be nice to one another. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > >

I must say a BIG THANK YOU, to you John! I have been inundated with responses to your mail "off list", now, if I may respond through the list? I can only assume your comments are geared to my response to the following: 1) "It is claimed if you cannot find them in the Tithes then don't look at Griffiths" This is a statement I don't subscribe to Cara as there was some twenty years between the Tithe Applotments and Griffiths'. "This is, in reality, A FACT! Maybe even 20-30yrs in some cases depending on the areas concerned. In fact, the Arklow Tithes were done in 1825 Griffiths' Valuations for Arklow were carried out in 1852, a difference of some 27yrs. This is A FACT!" Another example is this: In the Griffiths' Valuations for Co. Wexford I was researching the Dennison Family, they show up a James DENNISON in Griffiths' Valuation for the area of Tomhaggard, yet there is no mention of any Dennison family in the whole of County Wexford in the Tithe Applotments! This is a FACT"!. 2) I know what you are saying and would like to re-enforce it. Twenty odd years is a lot of time in someone's life so staying put in one area wasn't always the norm, I wouldn't depend on one without checking out the other just in case. " Indeed, I myself have lived in 3 different Countries covering the same timespan of 27yrs! I had lived in Ireland (back home) for over 10yrs. before I registered to vote! This will show on records that I have only lived here in Ireland for some 5yrs. when in fact I was home here some 10yrs. previous! THIS IS FACT! Yes John, I can give the impression of always being right if you don't know me. History from the Rootsweb lists will prove I can be wrong and I do openly admit it and apologise for such when proved wrong! My admiration for Cara, Paul Gorry and other listers goes without question! My main source of research is more one name, being NEWSOME and it's variants, here in Ireland, the UK, Australia, S. Africa and other far flung corners of the Globe. I am only human and as such try to play my part as best I can. Like other listers, I post as, and when, I need to. Even if this is only to clear a point! If I have a point to raise, I will, even if it upsets some folk! Everyone is entitled to their opinion! I never believe one person or their opinion BUT they are entitled to it!". The object of our Genealogy research is to find the answers to our questions. I never believe the comments made in any particular book or record without cross-referencing it first. This is how I work! Can we now call this matter finished on the list? Further comments can be sent to me direct: cnews@eircom.net Thank you Cara, those who have offered me support, and the list for the time and space. slan Cyril Newsome Loch Garman ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Murphy" <olive_tree29@yahoo.com> To: <IRL-WICKLOW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 11:31 AM Subject: [Wicklow] EVERYTIME > Whats with this man Cyril everytime Cara posts a mail, > Cyril has a comment to make,and it seems to me,it is always in the negative,and it seems to me its always like he's got to be correct,and my point is ,WHY dont you post some details dates and data Cyril, instead of being so negative to the girl > John Murphy > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ==== IRL-WICKLOW Mailing List ==== > *Folk lore* is a wonderful additive to family research, but one must not base their whole search around it. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > >

Hello again, I have a letter dated,March 15, 1876 from Mary Earls 20 Radcliffe St, Everton, Liverpool to her son Thomas Rufus, Living with her are her daughters, Lizzie who worked at Frisby Dyke's, and Emma. I have not found any reference to them in a census(or have struck a pay to view site) and know they were back in Arklow by 1883 living at Glenbrook House. The Liverpool site allowed me to put in the address but without result! The address was clear to read in the letter so I know I haven't made a mistake. Any hints as to where I can go from here please? Anona anarob@paradise.net.nz

Thank goodness for that acceptance Cyril, the Gorman fitted the "blue" (Gorm = blue) was near enough to Garman as a pun and the blue was as a small dig at your Liverpudlian rearing. Cheers and thanks.

Hello Listers, I have information from a letter dated 1909, written in Arklow, that a Thomas EARL kept the Fountain House Hotel in Fredon New Jersey at that time, Thomas was born in Arklow, date unknown. I have tried the US census but no joy. Also various Fredon and NJ websites without any luck. Can anyone please suggest any more outlets i may try? Anona. anarob@paradise.net.nz

It is often too easy to misunderstand the written words posted in this cyber world, which I am sure that Cyril would agree with. I would like to "third" the support of Cyril but as one who knows only too well it can be all too easy to grasp the wrong conclusion about someone. I hope that no-one gets the wrong idea about this; A KNIGHT OUT IN WEXFORD Sir Cyril, Blue Knight of Gorman Lady Cara's chosen corpsman Jousting master of gentle mirth This man of spirit and easy girth A virtual icon so sober of soul To assist and encourage his only goal As he guides along the Wicklow Way The cyber pilgrims of our today If help you need in ancestral quests You'll find him at Dunnes in knickers and vests. Regards Daz..........forgive me Cyril.

Cyril I guess John has not seen all the great help that Cyril has shown to us all Lighten up John Margaret >-----Original Message----- >From: waseely@aol.com [mailto:waseely@aol.com] >Sent: July 11, 2005 7:49 AM >To: IRL-WICKLOW-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [Wicklow] EVERYTIME > >John and the followers, > >Cyril has helped me with my geneology several times and I >assume many others over his lifetime and therefore I >personally do not consider his negative comments as such, but >rather part of the confab between two very helpful >individuals ribbing each other on the air waves. >Incidentially, much better than PRO or other such sources! > >One should not be overly sensitive on the Internet, since to >delete is everyone's precriptive choice. > >Lighten up and enjoy the earth that you've been placed upon to enjoy. > >Bill > >-----Original Message----- >From: John Murphy <olive_tree29@yahoo.com> >To: IRL-WICKLOW-L@rootsweb.com >Sent: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 03:31:31 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: [Wicklow] EVERYTIME > > >Whats with this man Cyril everytime Cara posts a mail, Cyril >has a comment to make,and it seems to me,it is always in the >negative,and it seems to me its always like he's got to be >correct,and my point is ,WHY dont you post some details dates >and data Cyril, instead of being so negative to the girl John Murphy > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection >around http://mail.yahoo.com > > >==== IRL-WICKLOW Mailing List ==== >*Folk lore* is a wonderful additive to family research, but >one must not base >their whole search around it. > >============================== >Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > >==== IRL-WICKLOW Mailing List ==== >Stick to the lists Golden Rule and you will never go wrong, >Co Wicklow genealogy~history~news~ and be nice to one another. > >============================== >Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn >more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

I will second that. Thanks Cyril Cara and Keith Taylor You all have beenthere for us Margaret >-----Original Message----- >From: Shirley Parker [mailto:shirley@ipconnect.com.au] >Sent: July 11, 2005 8:02 AM >To: IRL-WICKLOW-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [Wicklow] Cyril Newsome > >I can only say that both Cara and Cyril Newsome always seems >to be trying to help one person or another on this list. > > > >The kindness and help shown to me by Cyril Newsome when I >first joined the list was simply great > >and I have never known him to refuse his help to others on the list. >Thanks go to Cyril Newsome, Keith Taylor and Cara, and many >others too, who have always done what they could to help with >researching my ancestors. > > > >Shirley P > > > >==== IRL-WICKLOW Mailing List ==== >Have you put something down the list lately that would make >someones day, like a link to a good site, a headstone, a snip >of information, you found but didnt need? > >============================== >Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records >added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the >world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

John and the followers, Cyril has helped me with my geneology several times and I assume many others over his lifetime and therefore I personally do not consider his negative comments as such, but rather part of the confab between two very helpful individuals ribbing each other on the air waves. Incidentially, much better than PRO or other such sources! One should not be overly sensitive on the Internet, since to delete is everyone's precriptive choice. Lighten up and enjoy the earth that you've been placed upon to enjoy. Bill -----Original Message----- From: John Murphy <olive_tree29@yahoo.com> To: IRL-WICKLOW-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 03:31:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Wicklow] EVERYTIME Whats with this man Cyril everytime Cara posts a mail, Cyril has a comment to make,and it seems to me,it is always in the negative,and it seems to me its always like he's got to be correct,and my point is ,WHY dont you post some details dates and data Cyril, instead of being so negative to the girl John Murphy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ==== IRL-WICKLOW Mailing List ==== *Folk lore* is a wonderful additive to family research, but one must not base their whole search around it. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Whats with this man Cyril everytime Cara posts a mail, Cyril has a comment to make,and it seems to me,it is always in the negative,and it seems to me its always like he's got to be correct,and my point is ,WHY dont you post some details dates and data Cyril, instead of being so negative to the girl John Murphy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

The registers he quotes the name RAYMOND in begin unfortunately in 1840 But as I have pointed out before Debby they did not have to own land or a farm to make a will they may have simply had a few pounds to leave for someone .............but they no doubt did have some property but as you are looking 1747-1777 for land records you may have to hire someone to search the land deeds at Henrietta street for you for proof of where they were. Do they appear in any Tithes registers for the area It is claimed if you cannot find them in the Tithes then dont look at Griffiths for the name I cannot prove for or against this assumption, I havent applied that formulae in my research yet, but I will no doubt in the future be trying it to see what happens. Did they arrive from England and take up land at his will? is this how your name arrived in Wicklow because its sounding like you do indeed have the earlier contenders for the Title of Raymnonds in your search. I hope each day the mortar in your brick wall is growing weary with you knocking on it and it will soon come tumbling down. I keep on looking for you CAra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Debby Raymond" <debbyraymond@hotmail.com> To: <IRL-WICKLOW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 10:15 PM Subject: [Wicklow] RAYMOND of Wicklow > Thanks very much for all that, Cara. What time frame is Grenham looking > at? > > > > I suspect that Edward RAYMOND of Tinnode, Wicklow who died in 1747 was > related to William RAYMOND of Kemptstown/Hempstown whose will was proved > in 1777, but only because they both died in Wicklow 30 years apart. I > don't have burial records for them. Since they made wills, they must have > owned land or farms in Wicklow so I don't think they were servicemen, or > just passing through. > > > > I'd love to know where these Raymonds came from to settle in Wicklow, and > if any descendant moved on from there to settle in Kildare. > > > > Debby, Queensland > > > > > ==== IRL-WICKLOW Mailing List ==== > If you have a problem, question, need direction or to report a virus, > please contact IRL-WICKLOW-admin@rootsweb.com. off-list at Admin Thanks > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > >

"It is claimed if you cannot find them in the Tithes then don't look at Griffiths" This is a statement I don't subscribe to Cara as there was some twenty years between the Tithe Applotments and Griffiths'. I know what you are saying and would like to re-enforce it. Twenty odd years is a lot of time in someone's life so staying put in one area wasn't always the norm, I wouldn't depend on one without checking out the other just in case. Debbie, have you tried a search of the site: http://www.freebmd.org.uk/ It gives a good indication of the whereabouts of the name RAYMOND throughout England and Wales from the records which start from 1837. I know you are way back before then but a little bit of historical research might identify where your origins might have come from if indeed it was the UK, especially if you can find some sort of naming patterns emerging from over there. You're last date of 1777 is, after all, only some 60yrs before the start of their Civil registrations in the UK. slan Cyril Newsome Loch Garman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cara_Links" <cracker@hotkey.net.au> To: <IRL-WICKLOW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 6:23 AM Subject: Re: [Wicklow] RAYMOND of Wicklow > The registers he quotes the name RAYMOND in begin unfortunately in 1840 > But as I have pointed out before Debby they did not have to own land or a > farm to make a will they may have simply had a few pounds to leave for > someone .............but they no doubt did have some property but as you > are looking 1747-1777 for land records you may have to hire someone to > search the land deeds at Henrietta street for you for proof of where they > were. > Do they appear in any Tithes registers for the area > It is claimed if you cannot find them in the Tithes then dont look at > Griffiths for the name I cannot prove for or against this assumption, I > havent applied that formulae in my research yet, but I will no doubt in the > future be trying it to see what happens. > Did they arrive from England and take up land at his will? > is this how your name arrived in Wicklow because its sounding like you do > indeed have the earlier contenders for the Title of Raymnonds in your > search. > > I hope each day the mortar in your brick wall is growing weary with you > knocking on it and it will soon come tumbling down. > > I keep on looking for you > CAra > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Debby Raymond" <debbyraymond@hotmail.com> > To: <IRL-WICKLOW-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 10:15 PM > Subject: [Wicklow] RAYMOND of Wicklow > > > > Thanks very much for all that, Cara. What time frame is Grenham looking > > at? > > > > > > > > I suspect that Edward RAYMOND of Tinnode, Wicklow who died in 1747 was > > related to William RAYMOND of Kemptstown/Hempstown whose will was proved > > in 1777, but only because they both died in Wicklow 30 years apart. I > > don't have burial records for them. Since they made wills, they must have > > owned land or farms in Wicklow so I don't think they were servicemen, or > > just passing through. > > > > > > > > I'd love to know where these Raymonds came from to settle in Wicklow, and > > if any descendant moved on from there to settle in Kildare. > > > > > > > > Debby, Queensland > > > > > > > > > > ==== IRL-WICKLOW Mailing List ==== > > If you have a problem, question, need direction or to report a virus, > > please contact IRL-WICKLOW-admin@rootsweb.com. off-list at Admin Thanks > > > > ============================== > > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > > > > > > > > > ==== IRL-WICKLOW Mailing List ==== > Never feel you shouldnt ask about your ancestors~ for if the first ask doesnt receive a reply then ask and ask again, for your family ancestors in Co Wicklow. > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > >

Thanks very much for all that, Cara. What time frame is Grenham looking at? I suspect that Edward RAYMOND of Tinnode, Wicklow who died in 1747 was related to William RAYMOND of Kemptstown/Hempstown whose will was proved in 1777, but only because they both died in Wicklow 30 years apart. I don't have burial records for them. Since they made wills, they must have owned land or farms in Wicklow so I don't think they were servicemen, or just passing through. I'd love to know where these Raymonds came from to settle in Wicklow, and if any descendant moved on from there to settle in Kildare. Debby, Queensland

Roman Catholic--ONLY Location -National Library of Ireland M/F- 6474/75 Place name Arklow Marriage dates of registers Jan 7 1818 - Nov 27 1843 Jan 7 1844 - Oct 27 1856 Jan 12 1857 - Nov 26 1880 Baptism dates of registers May 25 1809 - June 4 1809 Dec 21 1817 - Dec 31 1843 Jan 2 1844 - Oct 27 1856 Jan 1 1857 - Oct 2 1868 Oct 4 1868 - Dec 29 1880 Location -National Library of Ireland M/F 6476 Place name Ballykine -Rathdrum Baptism Jan 6 1795 - Jan 29 1799 Oct 1 1816 - July 29 1835 Aug 2 1835 - Oct 3 1854 Sept 27 1854 - June 12 1875 June 12 1875 - Dec 21 1880 Marriage Nov 7 1816 - Aug 5 1835 Aug 3 1835 - Sept 22 1854 Nov 14 1854 - Nov 3 1880 Location -National Library of Ireland M/F4192 Place name Baltinglass Baptism May 31 1807 - Feb 18 1810 July 8 1810 - Apr 4 1811 Oct 4 1813 - Jan 19 1830 Mar 7 1830 - July12 1857 May 12 1857 - Nov 5 1865 Nov 12 1865 - Dec 19 1880 Marriage Feb 2 1810 - Apr 16 1811 Nov 20 1813 - Sept 12 1815 Apr (?) 25 1816 - Apr 25 1831 Jan 28 1830 - May 19 1857 July 23 1857 - Feb 12 1866 May 3 1866 - Dec 18 1880 Burials Aug. 12, 1824 - Sept. 11, 1830 More to come Cheers Cara

John Grenham actually lists 43 Households for the name Raymond Armagh-1 Cork-1 Down -2 Kerry -22 Kildare-3 Limerick -3 Limerick City-2 Longford -2 Meath-1 Roscommon -2 Tyrone -1 Westmeath -1 and he doesnt list them anywhere else but that doesnt mean they were not there but they came from somewhere to Wicklow .............. I cannot find them as yet Debby Cara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Debby Raymond" <debbyraymond@hotmail.com> To: <IRL-WICKLOW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 7:06 PM Subject: [Wicklow] Raymond or Redmond? > Is there a chance that my elusive Wicklow Raymonds from the 1700s were > perhaps called Redmond in an earlier era? Does McLysaght suggest this > change of name was possible? I ask because the English forename Edmond > becomes Eamonn in Irish. Redmond might therefore have become Reamonn or > Raymond later, in some areas. Anyone got any ideas? I'd especially like to > hear from anyone researching the Redmond name to see what they think. > > > > Debby Raymond in Queensland, Australia. > > > > > ==== IRL-WICKLOW Mailing List ==== > Families are like fudge...mostly sweet, with a few nuts > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

Well Debby Have you considered that your family just may have been the only Raymond family in Co Wicklow at the time ........... as it does show clearly spelt for other counties as RAYMOND and as late as 1876 it appears as RAYMOND in Co Kerry Was your man a service man was he just a passing man in the County? Maclysaght says Raymond a variant of Redmond mainly found in Co Cork and Kerry taken from Maclysaght page 176 Cheers CARA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Debby Raymond" <debbyraymond@hotmail.com> To: <IRL-WICKLOW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 7:06 PM Subject: [Wicklow] Raymond or Redmond? > Is there a chance that my elusive Wicklow Raymonds from the 1700s were > perhaps called Redmond in an earlier era? Does McLysaght suggest this > change of name was possible? I ask because the English forename Edmond > becomes Eamonn in Irish. Redmond might therefore have become Reamonn or > Raymond later, in some areas. Anyone got any ideas? I'd especially like to > hear from anyone researching the Redmond name to see what they think. > > > > Debby Raymond in Queensland, Australia. > > > > > ==== IRL-WICKLOW Mailing List ==== > Families are like fudge...mostly sweet, with a few nuts > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

Is there a chance that my elusive Wicklow Raymonds from the 1700s were perhaps called Redmond in an earlier era? Does McLysaght suggest this change of name was possible? I ask because the English forename Edmond becomes Eamonn in Irish. Redmond might therefore have become Reamonn or Raymond later, in some areas. Anyone got any ideas? I'd especially like to hear from anyone researching the Redmond name to see what they think. Debby Raymond in Queensland, Australia.