CRAMPTON At his residence, St. Valerie, Bray_ County Wicklow, on the 29th ult., the Right Hon. Philip Cecil Crampton, late one of Her Majesty's Justices of the Queen's Bench, Ireland. ( Coleraine Chronicles 3rd January 1863)

BROWNE Died, last week, General Robert Browne Clayton, of Adlington Hall, Lancashire, and of Carrickbourne~ County Wexford, Ireland, in his 74th year. 29th March 1845 (Coleraine Chronicles)

Hi Cara Humour me please cos Im still mulling over MARRIAGE SULLIVAN-BYRNE Jospeh Sullivan married Mary Byrne witnessed by Revd T Halpin and Mary Toole 29th August 1829 Im still wonderng if those Sullivans were movng around Wicklow and if Joseph could be the one baptised Bray RC 1805. Im thinking not a large Sullivan family in Avoca to be witnesses. What do you know about Mary Toole- was she often a witness, apologies if Ive got it wrong and she isnt one of your lot. Im also thinking they moved about as you havent given a marriage for Patrick Sullivan in Avoca and there was at least one having kds baptsed in Avoca 1825 onwards- 1825 Eleanor, 1830 Honour etc. Im thinking he could have arrived there with Joseph?? Wonder if that early marriage you gave below produced kids somewhere else to Avoca and they came back at some point??? James Sullivan married Eleanor Murphy ( Elenor) Witnesses were Mary Murphy and Sara Whilson ( wilson) 5th August 1792 Parish of Avoca Co Wicklow Ireland child 1-11/5/1795 Edward baptised of James and Eleanor Sullivan Sponsors are Ter. Sullivan and Mary Murry Thanks again, Im gong into overdrive again. Carol

Thanks Cara, I love names to play with and you keep me well provided. If only a Susannah, Patrick and Bridget would crop up somewhere, anywhere. Carol

Hi Joseph... Just my yearly vacation. I'll never leave New York! Peggy **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://www.dell.com/co ntent/products/features.aspx/laptops_great_deals?c=us%26cs=19%26l=en%26s=d hs%26~ck=anavml)

Hi Oh so many familar names, inc my Niles and Julia Cowan and family- she was Julia Donnelly daughter of James. A good prompt to take another look incase I spot someone new. It really was little Ireland wasnt it! Just an extra comment, many of these will be in 1871 and some 1861 englsh census- the spellings vary and Coy Wcklow isnt always used on those census returns. Carol On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Cara_Links <[email protected]> wrote: > Census Place: Arlecdon, Cumberland, England >

Dear Listers, Some of you are posting data to the list, which is brilliant, but you will need to be aware of some things, the mails you write will not show on the list, immediately if they do not fit the size the list is set at, right now it is 100kb fairly big, BUT I am having to release mails to the list that are huge, so May I suggest that you simply make several postings with the same subject line and simply number them for example - Wicklow 1, Wicklow 2 etc. The next thing I need to tell anyone that is new to the list is that NO attachment can be forwarded through the rootsweb medium to the list. Always observe the curtesy of erasing from the body of the mail what is not relevant to your answer or request. As there is one Peggy on the list who refuses to assist anyone now that has not abided by this rule and I might add she has plenty of data to share. Change the subject line to fit with the topic in the body of your mail, and if you use an old email to do this, please please change the subject line as I myself do not always open all mails to see what is in them so I assume there is others that dont open all mails. The list is yours to use in regard to Co Wicklow research, history etc, so go ahead and make full use of it and enjoy the other listers input. I remain as usual the cheerful happy Cara ( she tells fibbers also)

Hi All I receved the marriage cert for my gg grandparents as follows, I have some queries re the content and hope to get some thoughts. Im hopng some of you have experence with parish records from this church. 4th March 1847 Wicklow Church John NILE bachelor a labourer residence Castle McAdam Coy Wicklow- father John Nile labourer Bridget SULAVAN spinster residence Wicklow- father Patrick Sulavan labourer both of full age. Wtnesses Wlliam McPhail John Milar/Nilan???(dare I even think a bad version of Niles) Curate John Eccles married by licence John Niles signed hs name, Bridget made a mark. This has certainly made my day and got me thinking. Does anyone know whether the witnesses are regulars to save me wondering if they are related/connected to John and Bridget? I have found a Wlliam McPhail knocking about Wcklow Town in Trade Directories and am dubious as to whether he would be a labourers friend, I also found a McPhail listed as beng a church organist there suggestng links with the church rather than my rellies. Does anyone know whether Johns residence- Castle McAdam will have been specific to the village or the area in general? Would Johns beng able to write his name suggest he may have been the non catholic, Im thinking he may have had the chance to go to school etc etc. John and Bridget baptised all kids catholic Avoca Parish from 1847. All thoughts as ever welcome. carol

Hi Peggy You said you may be leaving N Y.Tell us more ! J P Kenna

Mary, Like you I am using witnesses now as a back way to find my ancestors. I think they are connected. The question is How. The records I have for my Irish in the US show sisters and brothers being commonly used. I have scanned pages where I have pages, to see if people were being asked to stand in I do not see that. I believe I have run into that in English records where the same couple witnessed other marriages. I have also run into the fact that it is as hard to find out much about the witnesses as it has been about the actual ancestors. :( I manage a list for Tipperary and one of my listmembers told me if I hadn't found the clue in the witnesses yet, it was because I hadn't looked at enough of them. So, she is a big proponent of following the trail of names. I have started to track those names in my genealogy program so I can pull them up at will. One other place I am using is probate. Whose probate did the male ancestor sign surety on. I am assuming they would not have done that unless there was a relationship. I don't know how common it is but the index for Wayne County, Michigan, lists them if they administered the probate. Good luck, Christina | I noticed that Carol came up with the same question that has been | on my mind lately. As I try to break down the bricks, I have now | started looking at marriage witnesses, out of desperation .....I | would love to know what experience others have had in connecting | witnesses with the marriage couple? Is it fairly normal for the | Irish to have brought their own to the wedding... or is that a more | recent custom? m | | Mary Villalba |

In a message dated 1/31/2009 10:30:09 A.M. Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes l As I try to break down the bricks, I have now started looking at marriage witnesses, out of desperation .....I would love to know what experience others have had in connecting witnesses with the marriage couple? I have gone back 6 generations in my family tree, and used witness's to help piece together who's who. Some have had brothers and sisters as witness's others have had parents. Our Hepenstall's also, from generation to generation have spelt the name differently, even as recent as my Grandfather, he and his brothers all spelt the surname differently, or was it the clerk or clergy spelling it as it sounded. But we are one family, all 4 different families in Co Wicklow Still breaking down brick walls also, but it will come together one day. Cheers, Pam (in the sunny panhandle of Florida) **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62)

I noticed that Carol came up with the same question that has been on my mind lately. As I try to break down the bricks, I have now started looking at marriage witnesses, out of desperation .....I would love to know what experience others have had in connecting witnesses with the marriage couple? Is it fairly normal for the Irish to have brought their own to the wedding... or is that a more recent custom? m Mary Villalba AZTEC Communications, LLC (303) 290-8415 Tele Distinguished Past Governor, Rocky Mountain District Kiwanis International "A global organization of volunteers, dedicated to changing the world, one child and one community at a time." -------------------------------------------------- > > This has certainly made my day and got me thinking. > > Does anyone know whether the witnesses are regulars to save me > wondering if they are related/connected to John and Bridget? I have >

Hi Yvonne, Think they refer to free access but if you want to view the details/image you have to use credits which you pay for before you start searching. Then if you think you have found something you think might be the right person you have to decide whether to use part of your credits to view the image sometimes it is Bingo sometimes you have wasted your credit. So you can't just go around looking at anything. Soon use your credits that way. They usually check if you wish to use a credit to view and give you a chance to change your mind and they always give a balance of credits when you start. The credits usually carry over if you don't use them in that session. That is the way it is usually done, but beware, can run into cash if you get carried away. regards Paddy PS My son lives in Edgewater Estate and he said it was 45.1C and we had a call a couple of hours ago and they had just lost all electricity. He has a telstra phone that comes in on cable so at least he has one landline phone available. They rang to find out and were told that the fires were causing the terminals on the poles to burn and they had to cut the power for safety reasons. Looks like a very hot night without air conditioning and hope he hasn't done his weeks shopping already. Has to keep the fridge shut and hope the power comes back soon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Y Pratt" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-WICKLOW] Byrne, James Myles - seeking advice re buyng certs > Hi all, I have just come in on this thread. Pardon my ignorance, but > what is the "pay as you go site" that is mentioned? > > Cheers, > > Yvonne, in a sweltering 45 degree C ( or 113 degree F) Melbourne > > > 2009/1/30 carol griffiths <[email protected]>: >> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 6:20 AM, Whillans <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Dear Ire-Wicklow Listers, I would like to continue along the List's >>> Byrne >>> threads, in the hope of getting some advice. >>> >>> Unless a Lister has a better suggestion, I fear my only course of action >>> is >>> to pay the 3 x 5 Euro to get the three birth certificates indicated in >>> my >>> 2nd para. What information might I get which I don't already have? I >>> reckon any reader who has got this far might be sensing my frustration - >>> I >>> haven't got anywhere in Wicklow over two decades. Maybe you might be >>> able >>> to offer me some advice, eg: give up, pay up, or ... ? >>> >>> Hi there, I havent paid for any Wcklow baptisms yet but have bought lots >>> of >>> Co Down ones around the 1800 mark. On some I got mams maden name and on >>> all >>> I got the townland which helped in deciding whether I was lookng at one >>> or >>> more families, nothing conclusve re this though where mams maiden name >>> was >>> missing. I also always got witnesses and religion >> >> >> I realise this doesnt help but thought would throw in my two penneth. >> AND >> DO KEEP A RECORD OF THE SEARCHES YOU HAVE DONE ON THE PAY AS YOU GO SITE >> AS >> HAVE BEEN SUSPENDED FOR OVER USE WITHOUT PAYNG:). >> >> Carol >> *************************************** >> 1- Only leave in the body of the mail what is relevant to your answer >> >> 2- Change the SUBJECT LINE to suit the body of your own Mail to List. >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > *************************************** > 1- Only leave in the body of the mail what is relevant to your answer > > 2- Change the SUBJECT LINE to suit the body of your own Mail to List. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.15/1924 - Release Date: 01/29/09 17:57:00

Hi all, I have just come in on this thread. Pardon my ignorance, but what is the "pay as you go site" that is mentioned? Cheers, Yvonne, in a sweltering 45 degree C ( or 113 degree F) Melbourne 2009/1/30 carol griffiths <[email protected]>: > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 6:20 AM, Whillans <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Dear Ire-Wicklow Listers, I would like to continue along the List's Byrne >> threads, in the hope of getting some advice. >> >> Unless a Lister has a better suggestion, I fear my only course of action is >> to pay the 3 x 5 Euro to get the three birth certificates indicated in my >> 2nd para. What information might I get which I don't already have? I >> reckon any reader who has got this far might be sensing my frustration - I >> haven't got anywhere in Wicklow over two decades. Maybe you might be able >> to offer me some advice, eg: give up, pay up, or ... ? >> >> Hi there, I havent paid for any Wcklow baptisms yet but have bought lots of >> Co Down ones around the 1800 mark. On some I got mams maden name and on all >> I got the townland which helped in deciding whether I was lookng at one or >> more families, nothing conclusve re this though where mams maiden name was >> missing. I also always got witnesses and religion > > > I realise this doesnt help but thought would throw in my two penneth. AND > DO KEEP A RECORD OF THE SEARCHES YOU HAVE DONE ON THE PAY AS YOU GO SITE AS > HAVE BEEN SUSPENDED FOR OVER USE WITHOUT PAYNG:). > > Carol > *************************************** > 1- Only leave in the body of the mail what is relevant to your answer > > 2- Change the SUBJECT LINE to suit the body of your own Mail to List. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Carol and Arlene, Unfortunately, the microfilm of Arklow Marriages stopped around 1875-80. The 1891 Marriage is one I've transcribed from the Church Index, Which I have up to about 1895. I will ask around in Arklow, if you remind me before March 30th. I don't give out "illigitmate" information. Just the other facts. I do record them, but don't forward them, unless asked. English is a name of interest to me, so if you want my English information, tell me who? Best I can do.... Peggy Arlene wrote: ......I'm really interested in knowing who Mary Byrne parents and siblings were. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62)

Dear Ire-Wicklow Listers, I would like to continue along the List's Byrne threads, in the hope of getting some advice. My wife's greatgrandfather was James Myles Byrne born 1828-29 (from marriage cert) in Aghavannagh (from his gravestone, which suggests b1821-22) near Glendalough along an old military road constructed by the English in their attempt to contain the Irish rebels in the Wicklow hills; his parents were farmer Mathew Burnes(!) & Anne (from his death cert). Searching the recently available BMD indices, there are two matches for James Byrne (plus variants) b1821-1829 Wicklow pa Mathew; these are b1828 & 1829. There is one match for Mathew Byrne (plus variants) b1796-1804 Wicklow, namely b1801. James Myles Byrne migrated to Victoria Australia, while reputably (from family lore) his one sister Mary and seven brothers (unknown given names) migrated to America, all moving because of the potato famine. James married Mary Jane Barry on 17jun1862 at Port Belfast (Port Fairy) Victoria Australia shortly after his arrival. They sheep-farmed during 1866-78 at Wickliffe & Glenthompson near the Grampians in Victoria, later moving to Dunkeld where he succeeded financially, then they moved to Moyhu just S of Wangaratta where they ran a general store; he was buried a little N of this at Milawa during 1909. My attempts to find more about James Myles and his parents Mathew & Anne have been quite futile. A visit to Aghavannagh and its truly delightful nearby Roshana cemetery, searching the Griffiths Valuation, keeping my eyes open in the Byrne Rootsweb List, foolishly (in hindsight) paying good money in 1993 to the County Wicklow Heritage Society at the Courthouse Wicklow for a continuing search, have all come to nought. Unless a Lister has a better suggestion, I fear my only course of action is to pay the 3 x 5 Euro to get the three birth certificates indicated in my 2nd para. What information might I get which I don't already have? I reckon any reader who has got this far might be sensing my frustration - I haven't got anywhere in Wicklow over two decades. Maybe you might be able to offer me some advice, eg: give up, pay up, or ... ? Frank Whillans Skype whillans42 Melbourne Australia 3084

On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Y Pratt <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi all, I have just come in on this thread. Pardon my ignorance, but > what is the "pay as you go site" that is mentioned? > > Hi Sorry Yvonne I should have said www.irish-roots.ie Carol

On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 6:20 AM, Whillans <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Ire-Wicklow Listers, I would like to continue along the List's Byrne > threads, in the hope of getting some advice. > > Unless a Lister has a better suggestion, I fear my only course of action is > to pay the 3 x 5 Euro to get the three birth certificates indicated in my > 2nd para. What information might I get which I don't already have? I > reckon any reader who has got this far might be sensing my frustration - I > haven't got anywhere in Wicklow over two decades. Maybe you might be able > to offer me some advice, eg: give up, pay up, or ... ? > > Hi there, I havent paid for any Wcklow baptisms yet but have bought lots of > Co Down ones around the 1800 mark. On some I got mams maden name and on all > I got the townland which helped in deciding whether I was lookng at one or > more families, nothing conclusve re this though where mams maiden name was > missing. I also always got witnesses and religion I realise this doesnt help but thought would throw in my two penneth. AND DO KEEP A RECORD OF THE SEARCHES YOU HAVE DONE ON THE PAY AS YOU GO SITE AS HAVE BEEN SUSPENDED FOR OVER USE WITHOUT PAYNG:). Carol

Hi Paddy, Not sure if we have corresponded previously, I am also researching James Byrne and Sarah Franklin; I am descended from their daughter Mary Therese who married James Worthington. James Byrne was born in Wicklow in 1769. He may have had a brother, Thomas born in 1772. I have James' father as John William Byrne, and his mother as Nancy Byrne (yes a Byrne married a Byrne that's unusual :). This is one of my brick walls, as I have not been able to confirm this. John William Byrne's father may have been Thomas Byrne, mother unknown. Nancy Byrne's father may have been James Byrne and her mother may have been Matilda. Again, have not been able to confirm this. I have considerable information on the Byrne family descendents in NSW, and am happy to swap. Kind regards, Penny Message: 5 Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:06:36 +1100 From: "Paddy" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [IRL-WICKLOW] Byrne For Maggie & Arlene To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I have a lot on James Byrne and Sarah Franklin(Franklington. They married in Sydney. Both Convicts who became pioneers NSW outback. I have the story on Sarah, and a sad one it its. Have her gaol to ship documents and trial in England. What I am after is to prove James's parents. Not sure Sarah would have known her father and believe that could be a dead end. Have their whole descendens which is now on paper until I find the energy to re-enter it all again. There are a couple of good websites been put up by the researchers of Byrne but again, data is mostly on the NSW Australia time from their arrival to modern day. Not sure if I have given you enough to decide whether that line could be yours. The Campbelltown Family History site is an excellent source of information about both lines of Byrne. I could give you the websites of the Byrnes (mainly James & Sarah. regards Paddy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maggie Weidinger" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-WICKLOW] Byrne For Maggie & Arlene > I've a few James with no info.. If I find a Franklin connection I'll let > you know. > > Paddy wrote: >> Maggie, >> Will keep a lookout for those names. The James line was from Annanoe. >> He married Sarah Franklin in Sydney. Think James's father may have been >> William or John >> and mother Nancy. This off the top of my head. >> On my way out, lunch on water at Botany Bay. Husband shouting! >> I will have a look in the paper records for the names you want but most >> of >> it will be the Australian >> end. It is the Annamoe end I am having trouble with. >> Paddy

I have a lot on James Byrne and Sarah Franklin(Franklington. They married in Sydney. Both Convicts who became pioneers NSW outback. I have the story on Sarah, and a sad one it its. Have her gaol to ship documents and trial in England. What I am after is to prove James's parents. Not sure Sarah would have known her father and believe that could be a dead end. Have their whole descendens which is now on paper until I find the energy to re-enter it all again. There are a couple of good websites been put up by the researchers of Byrne but again, data is mostly on the NSW Australia time from their arrival to modern day. Not sure if I have given you enough to decide whether that line could be yours. The Campbelltown Family History site is an excellent source of information about both lines of Byrne. I could give you the websites of the Byrnes (mainly James & Sarah. regards Paddy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maggie Weidinger" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-WICKLOW] Byrne For Maggie & Arlene > I've a few James with no info.. If I find a Franklin connection I'll let > you know. > > Paddy wrote: >> Maggie, >> Will keep a lookout for those names. The James line was from Annanoe. >> He married Sarah Franklin in Sydney. Think James's father may have been >> William or John >> and mother Nancy. This off the top of my head. >> On my way out, lunch on water at Botany Bay. Husband shouting! >> I will have a look in the paper records for the names you want but most >> of >> it will be the Australian >> end. It is the Annamoe end I am having trouble with. >> Paddy >> >> > > *************************************** > 1- Only leave in the body of the mail what is relevant to your answer > > 2- Change the SUBJECT LINE to suit the body of your own Mail to List. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.15/1921 - Release Date: 01/28/09 06:37:00