Not so much, Les. When Christianity was first introduced into Ireland, the church piggy-backed Christianity onto some of the old pagan rituals in order to make it "acceptable", but most gradually died out. I imagine there might have been a hanger on ritual or two through the medieval period.. What is interesting is that the Celi Dei priests were allowed one wife and one child [oh, sure! one child and we believe that] and that persisted right through to modern times. Some things I run across amaze me. The High Crosses were vividly painted like advertising signs. It seems some of the crosses had moving parts to convince the worshippers that a miracle was occuring. Digging into the history of religion in Ireland is fascinating and can put one right off religion. Janet On 1/22/06, les wright <olgeta@bigpond.net.au> wrote: > > I was reading the article from Trinity research & they say that Medieval > Irish were christian but they still used the customs of the pre-christian > times. > Robyn > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janet Crawford" <reojan@gmail.com> > To: <IRL-TIPPERARY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 7:15 PM > Subject: Re: [TIP] DNA -Niall > > > > Hi Les, And in the 1700's and 1800's, the illegitimate children were > given > > the surname of the mother. I can't tell how far back that goes. One may > > just > > think one is a Ryan or a Dwyer. > > > > Janet > > > > > > > > > > On 1/22/06, les wright <olgeta@bigpond.net.au> wrote: > >> > >> That is right Janet. I am one of the people who find themselves > >> descended > >> from Niall through my McHenry family coming from the O'Cathain clan, > this > >> has been found through DNA & using a number of males & was not done > >> looking > >> for the 'pot of gold'. I have the book "Clans of Ulster" & most of > these > >> names are in this book as being from Niall & names do change around a > bit > >> over time. In Medieval times & prior to this time it is written that > >> illigitimate children were given their fathers name, it was powerful to > >> have > >> children especially males! > >> I have now used DNA on 4 of my male lines & I am finding it a most > >> interesting tool with my research, it certainly keeps me very busy & > can > >> change that paper trail believe you me! > >> Robyn > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Janet Crawford" <reojan@gmail.com> > >> To: <IRL-TIPPERARY-L@rootsweb.com> > >> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 6:18 AM > >> Subject: Re: [TIP] DNA -Niall > >> > >> > >> > > > >> >> Hi Squire, Generally I agree with you. Niall's brothers would carry > >> >> the > >> >> same DNA and on down their lines. However, the statement below needs > >> some > >> >> clarification: > >> >> > >> >> "What is socially interesting is that so many people with different > >> >> surnames seem to be descended from the Nialls. Hmmmm." > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > In the old days, the eventual surnames were derived, simplyfying it, > >> from > >> > the names given to the sons. "They" say the surnames started about > >> 1000AD > >> > but I think it may have really begun in a limited way in the 800's. > So > >> in > >> > the 800's a son was named Flaithbertach, which eventually became > >> > O'Flaherty, > >> > and he was in the direct O'Neill line. Tons of new surnames came > about > >> in > >> > the same line in that way. > >> > > >> > But your postman theory is meaningful too :) Lots of illegitimate > >> > births > >> > over the centuries. > >> > > >> > Janet > >> > > >> > ==== IRL-TIPPERARY Mailing List ==== > >> >> Join us for a chat about researching families in Tipperary (and > >> >> everything else!). 'Open House Sessions' every Thursday/Friday > >> (depending > >> >> on your location). Starting at 11pm Thursday Tipperary Time. This > >> >> means > >> >> the > >> >> time will be 11pm in England; 6 pm in New York and Montreal; 3pm in > >> >> California and Vancouver; 7am (Friday) in Perth; 10am (Friday) in > >> Sydney; > >> >> 12 > >> >> noon (Friday) in Wellington. > >> >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~irltip2/chat/index.htm > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > ==== IRL-TIPPERARY Mailing List ==== > >> > Reminder! Remove (<snip>) as much of the Original Message as > >> > possible when replying to a List Posting. Include just the part of > >> > the original message important to your reply. > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> ==== IRL-TIPPERARY Mailing List ==== > >> Online Tipperary Census: > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~irltip2/census_ndx.htm > >> > >> > > > > > > ==== IRL-TIPPERARY Mailing List ==== > >>>Watch those SUBJECT headings! When the topic changes - change the > >>>subject<< > > > > > > > > ==== IRL-TIPPERARY Mailing List ==== > Join us for a chat about researching families in Tipperary (and > everything else!). 'Open House Sessions' every Thursday/Friday (depending > on your location). Starting at 11pm Thursday Tipperary Time. This means the > time will be 11pm in England; 6 pm in New York and Montreal; 3pm in > California and Vancouver; 7am (Friday) in Perth; 10am (Friday) in Sydney; 12 > noon (Friday) in Wellington. > http://www.rootsweb.com/~irltip2/chat/index.htm > >

Hello Janet, I'm not sure whether to take your post seriously or with a bright flashing smile. You mentioned in part ... The High Crosses were vividly painted like advertising signs. It seems some of the crosses had moving parts to convince the worshippers that a miracle was occuring. ----- I always thought that 'by making the sign of the cross', it was a blessing not a miracle in disguise. Nigel Pennick mentions the colouring of Celtic Crosses on page 96 of his book titled, "The Celtic Cross an Illustrated History and Celebration". (ISBN 0-7137-2758-6) Quoting ... Forensic studies of ancient crosses have shown that, sometimes, the stone surface was prepared with an undercoat of lime whitewash or gesso, upon which the colours were painted. Like traditional fabric dyes and inks for tattooing, the colours for stone-painting were prepared from natural materials. Black and white were made from lead, red from haematite, and green from verdigris. On the subject of DNA, I'm about to finish reading Prof Bryan Sykes' book titled, "The Seven Daughters of Eve" (ISBN 0-552-15218-8). Stephen Oppenheimer's book titled, "Out of Eden the peopling of the world" (ISBN 1-84119-894-3) is on the bookshelf ready & waiting. Regards, Peter Mayberry Tuggeranong ACT Australia