John, regarding your post about no records being found for your relatives, it maybe worth considering the possibility that your relatives first emigrated to America and then made the return journey and settled in South Wales. I know of a similar scenario, where the person concerned found that his ancestors had first left Ireland for South Wales, then emigrated soon after to Brooklyn,America and then returned to South Wales some years later. Regards Rich Ryan My kin names in County Tipperary were PATRICK MORRIS and CATHERINE MURPHY My first discovery after paid research was no marriage could be found for the couple circa 1871-2,in Ireland or UK. In 1881 census the couple are shown ages PATRICK 32 and CATHERINE 28 making thier births 1849 and 1852 THe children from this couple were baptised in st marys in Merthyr Tydfil GLAMORGAN wales MARY 1873 CATHERINE 1874 PATRICK 1876 JOHN 1877 ELLEN 1882 MARGARET 1884 It could be that from the naming pattern Patricks parents were PATRICK and MARY Catherines would be JOHN and CATHERINE. no evidence on 1871 census could be found shing this couple in IRELAND or UK thankyou for any assistance with this regards JOHN MORRISS in Deal Kent ________________________________________________________________________ AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Agnes McFarlane" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:00 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-TIP] From the Nenagh Guardian I believe it's a derivative of the Irish word "baile" which means "home." baile beag (beag means small) = village baile mor (mor means big) = town baile duchais = native town, homeland Thank you for this Agnes I am finding the articles from the Nenagh Guardian are prompting me to learn more about the Traditions of Ireland. I googled "shrovetide" and have pasted it here just in case there are others like me who didn't know it's meaning. I found some very interesting sites, the definition coming from the answer.com website and the joke from a joke website. (funny that!) Shrovetide In the Christian calendar, the three days before Lent were known as Shrovetide, taking their name from 'shrive' or confess. Lent being the longest and strictest fast, however, has given to Shrovetide the character of being the last chance for good food and unrestricted fun before the long period of austerity starting with Ash Wednesday and leading up to Easter. Shrovetide thus became second only to Christmas for its frivolity, or, as William Kethe commented in 1571 'Great gluttony, surfeiting and drunkenness' (A Sermon Made at Blandford Forum, quoted by Hutton, 1996: 152). The three days were generally known as Shrove Sunday, Collop Monday, and Shrove Tuesday. Collop Monday took its name from the habit of eating collops, or cuts of meat fried or boiled. It made sense to eat up any meat still remaining in the house, as it would be banned from the Wednesday. Similarly, on Shrove Tuesday, other perishable foodstuffs were used up, and although there were regional variations, these were usually eaten in the form of pancakes. While Shrovetide now passes unnoticed by any but a dwindling number of religious families, Pancake Day still means something to millions of English people, and to lemon growers and importers. The first known mention of pancakes is by William Warner in Albions England (1586), as 'Fast-even pan-puffs' (quoted by Hutton, 1996: 152). The term 'Fast-even' (meaning the evening before the fast) long survived in the north of England as a synonym for Shrove Tuesday. The pancake-making was not left to chance, but in many areas was signalled by a church bell being rung, at eleven o'clock or twelve o'clock, which obviously became known as the pancake bell. This was the signal for families to start cooking. If John Taylor (1621) is to be believed, some sextons rang the bell as early as nine o'clock. Modern pancake races are said, completely without foundation, to date from a custom whereby housewives would vie with each other to make the first pancake and race to the sexton to prove it. The pancake bell survived in many places till late in the 19th century (Wright and Lones, 1936: i. 13-15). Playing God? It was Shrove Tuesday and Mrs Williams was making pancakes for her sons, Justin 5, and Freddy 7. As usual, the brothers began to argue over who should get the first pancake. Their mother saw a wonderful opportunity for a moral lesson. 'If Jesus were sitting at the table, He would say, "Let my brother have the first pancake".' Quick as a flash Freddy turned to Justin and said, 'Justin, today you can be Jesus!' Kind Regards Chris in NZ

My kin names in County Tipperary were PATRICK MORRIS and CATHERINE MURPHY My first discovery after paid research was no marriage could be found for the couple circa 1871-2,in Ireland or UK. In 1881 census the couple are shown ages PATRICK 32 and CATHERINE 28 making thier births 1849 and 1852 THe children from this couple were baptised in st marys in Merthyr Tydfil GLAMORGAN wales MARY 1873 CATHERINE 1874 PATRICK 1876 JOHN 1877 ELLEN 1882 MARGARET 1884 It could be that from the naming pattern Patricks parents were PATRICK and MARY Catherines would be JOHN and CATHERINE. no evidence on 1871 census could be found shing this couple in IRELAND or UK thankyou for any assistance with this regards JOHN MORRISS in Deal Kent

Griffith Valuations Patrick Morris Tipp. North - none " " " South - 4 Catherine Murphy Tipp. North - 4 " " " Souyh - 8

HI could the list give thier ideas why both my greatgrandmother,and greatgrandfather were born in 1947-50 in county Tipperary. They later married and moved to Wales in 1970. The famine was still causing death and starvation ,but both my ancestors Catholic families decided to have children.Iam unable to find the births recorded or the marriage. I secured the information from ages on the Welsh 81 census and later ones also the births records and baptisms of the children giving the first child in Merthyr tydfil 1872. Theres no record of the Greatgrandparents on any census,before 81,i have had paid for research but still nothing.but iam confused as to the both of them being born in famine years . Could you give your opinions Why? .The family were employed in coalmines in Wales and do not appear to be very wealthy at the onset . Thankyou john in DEAL KENT

Good to read snippets from the guardian would not want that nephew either. Victoria has good rain today thank heavens. Reserching kinnally, Kenelley, Mahers, all Tipperary. Butlers Co Clare Val in Aus

In the Griffith Valuations there are 5 Kent family names in Tipp. South and 136 Kent families in Tipp. North. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "L Morriss" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 10:23 AM Subject: [IRL-TIP] Births during FAMINE > HI could the list give thier ideas why both my greatgrandmother,and > greatgrandfather were born in 1947-50 in county Tipperary. > They later married and moved to Wales in 1970. > The famine was still causing death and starvation ,but both my ancestors > Catholic families decided to have children.Iam unable to find the births > recorded or the marriage. > I secured the information from ages on the Welsh 81 census and later ones > also the births records and baptisms of the children giving the first > child > in Merthyr tydfil 1872. > Theres no record of the Greatgrandparents on any census,before 81,i have > had > paid for research but still nothing.but iam confused as to the both of > them > being born in famine years . > Could you give your opinions Why? .The family were employed in coalmines > in > Wales and do not appear to be very wealthy at the onset . > Thankyou john in DEAL KENT > _______________________________________________________ > Griffith's Valuation: http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths.php > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks, Mick - I look forward to hearing when you get the chance. Current plan is to get on with writing my book and probably visit Ireland later in the year - hopefully various irons I've put in the fire now will have produced some good leads by then (am also doing some research connected to Wicklow). -- Cheers Andrew www.groupphoto.co.uk

Hi Folks I can only hope that my research does not uncover any connection to the below mentioned nephew who beat up his elderly Uncle. ;-) The word "Bally" or "Ball" is part of many Irish place names. Does it mean something in particular? Thanks Chris in NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Heaphy" <[email protected]> >From the Nenagh Guardian 26th March 1894. One of the assault cases for the next Thurles Quarter Sessions is one where a nephew beat his uncle severely on the eve of his intended marriage. The old man, who lives near Templeharry, is over 70 years of age, had but buried his wife five or six weeks before Shrovetide, when he took the fancy to form a new alliance. His people who offered to take care of him for the remainder of his life, if he gave up his little farm and house, were against this new marriage. On the eve of Shrovetide, the old man got in whiskey, meat and bread, for the expected event, barred the door, and barricaded the windows, fearing an onslaught. But a nephew of his got down the chimney, unbarred the door, and admitted a confederate named Molloy. They beat the old man to such a degree as to spoil the marriage, and confine him to bed for three weeks. They then carried away the provisions. For this outrage the Templemore magistrates held both to bail in two sureties of £50, and themselves each in £100 to stand trial at Thurles. .. _______________________________________________________ Griffith's Valuation: http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths.php ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.0/2065 - Release Date: 04/17/09 17:52:00

I believe it's a derivative of the Irish word "baile" which means "home." baile beag (beag means small) = village baile mor (mor means big) = town baile duchais = native town, homeland -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of fabiochris Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 3:29 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRL-TIP] From the Nenagh Guardian Hi Folks I can only hope that my research does not uncover any connection to the below mentioned nephew who beat up his elderly Uncle. ;-) The word "Bally" or "Ball" is part of many Irish place names. Does it mean something in particular? Thanks Chris in NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Heaphy" <[email protected]> >From the Nenagh Guardian 26th March 1894. One of the assault cases for the next Thurles Quarter Sessions is one where a nephew beat his uncle severely on the eve of his intended marriage. The old man, who lives near Templeharry, is over 70 years of age, had but buried his wife five or six weeks before Shrovetide, when he took the fancy to form a new alliance. His people who offered to take care of him for the remainder of his life, if he gave up his little farm and house, were against this new marriage. On the eve of Shrovetide, the old man got in whiskey, meat and bread, for the expected event, barred the door, and barricaded the windows, fearing an onslaught. But a nephew of his got down the chimney, unbarred the door, and admitted a confederate named Molloy. They beat the old man to such a degree as to spoil the marriage, and confine him to bed for three weeks. They then carried away the provisions. For this outrage the Templemore magistrates held both to bail in two sureties of £50, and themselves each in £100 to stand trial at Thurles. ... _______________________________________________________ Griffith's Valuation: http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths.php ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.0/2065 - Release Date: 04/17/09 17:52:00 _______________________________________________________ Griffith's Valuation: http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths.php ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>From the Nenagh Guardian 26th March 1894. Died on March 15th at Rossaguile, Winifred Walthow, aged 68 years. The funeral cortege was large and representative which accompanied the remains to Killoscully cemetery. March 16th died at the Silvermines, Margaret Scully, aged 28 years. March 17th at Clenculloo, Mrs Mary Clifford, aged 95 years. The deceased was interred in Killoscully graveyard. March 18th at Ballywilliam, Patrick Kennedy, aged 78 years. The deceased was interred on Monday. At Nenagh Town Commissioners Court today, before Doctor Quigley. Acting Sergeant Collins had Kate Slattery summoned for riotous behaviour on the public street on the 17th March. The same complainant had a second charge of indecent behaviour against her. For each offence defendant was fine 40/., or a month in prison. Sergeant Devere summoned John Carroll, for drunkenness and obscene language. Complainant said the language used on the occasion was not fit to be used in court. He wrote it down and showed it to his Worship. For being drunk the defendant was fined 2/6, and costs, and for the obscene language he was fined 5/. John Flannery was also fined 2/6 for being drunk. A similar fine was inflicted on Patrick Waters and Michael Bourke for a like offence. At the instance of Sergeant Mullin, Martin Toohey was up for being drunk also. He was fined 2/6, plus costs. One of the assault cases for the next Thurles Quarter Sessions is one where a nephew beat his uncle severely on the eve of his intended marriage. The old man, who lives near Templeharry, is over 70 years of age, had but buried his wife five or six weeks before Shrovetide, when he took the fancy to form a new alliance. His people who offered to take care of him for the remainder of his life, if he gave up his little farm and house, were against this new marriage. On the eve of Shrovetide, the old man got in whiskey, meat and bread, for the expected event, barred the door, and barricaded the windows, fearing an onslaught. But a nephew of his got down the chimney, unbarred the door, and admitted a confederate named Molloy. They beat the old man to such a degree as to spoil the marriage, and confine him to bed for three weeks. They then carried away the provisions. For this outrage the Templemore magistrates held both to bail in two sureties of £50, and themselves each in £100 to stand trial at Thurles. This evening, the house of Mr. James Baker, harness maker, 22 Queen Street, Nenagh was burned to the ground. It was with difficulty that the adjoining houses were saved from the same fate. The accident occurred on account of a child treading on a match which ignited the garret flooring. At Newport Petty sessions, John Hayes from Rock, summoned Hugh Flannery for assaulting him with a shovel. Fined 10/., and costs. Died at Bruff, Mrs D'Huig, sister of Mrs Moloney, Imperial Bakery, Nenagh. Died at Kilcommon, Shinrone, Sarah Johanna Roundthwaite. 29th March 1875 A man named James Cormack was returned to trial to the Nenagh Quarter Sessions, by the Newport Magistrates yesterday, charged with pocket picking. Died at Derraleigh, Newport, Adelaide Temperance, aged 10 years, fourth daughter of James Powell, Esq. Felix House, Templederry. Died at Templemore, David Ring, Esq., aged 57 years. Died at Castle Street, Nenagh, Michael, infant son of W.H.Hastings, Esq. National Bank, Nenagh. At Templemore Petty sessions, Philip Kelly and Thomas Ryan, were fined 40/., each or two months in Nenagh gaol for taking the bounty from other militia regiments, while still enrolled as members of the Tipperey.? Constable O'Brien of Coolbawn, summoned Edward Hogan (bonesetter) of Coolbawn, for keeping a shebeen, and produced at Borrisokane Petty Sessions on Wednesday, a jar containing one gallon and one pint of whiskey. The court imposed a fine of 10/- and costs and ordered the full seizure to be destroyed. Denis O'Dwyer who was on the premises at the time was fined 1/-. The charge against Mary Bryan, a little girl was dismissed. The court did not think she had been drinking. Three funerals of persons belonging to this locality passed through Nenagh yesterday at different periods of the day. At noon, Sarah, relic of the late Paul Molloy, Esq., of Rockvalley, and sister of Caleb Going, Esq. Traverstown. Mrs Molloy died in Killiney and her remains were brought to Nenagh by train. The second funeral was that of Eliza, wife of John Harty, T.C. The burial ground was Ballymackey. It was one of the largest funerals in Nenagh for many years. The jaunting cars and cars which attended this funeral were heavily laden and extended over half an Irish mile. The third funeral was that of Mr. James Power. T.C.

Thank you for your reply Maggie. I am at a dead end, and was hoping I may have been able to work backwards with unverified family stories of whom my great grandmother Anne BRYAN worked. Regards Estelle > There were various forms of 'sponsorship' of emigrants to NSW, the one I > am interested in covers the time period of 1853-1900. I stress NSW only. > Not having any ancestors arriving in QLD (that I know of) I haven't _________________________________________________________________ Need a new place to rent, share or buy? Let ninemsn property search for you. http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Edomain%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Fs%5Fcid%3DFDMedia%3ANineMSN%5FHotmail%5FTagline&_t=774152450&_r=Domain_tagline&_m=EXT

hi Estelle There were various forms of 'sponsorship' of emigrants to NSW, the one I am interested in covers the time period of 1853-1900. I stress NSW only. Not having any ancestors arriving in QLD (that I know of) I haven't researched the history of immigration. I suggest that you log on to Qld State library there is sure to be information there and if not Qld State Archives. Regards Maggie in not as wet Port Macquarie (we had over 13 inches of rain in 48 hours to 9a.m today - 1 inch equals 25 mls.)

Ok, Andrew - I do have graveyard information for Grangemockler but unfortunately all in storage since January. Should be back 4/6 weeks hopefully. I will check what Lawrence info there is and let you know. Regards  Mick Kearns ________________________________ From: Andrew Tatham <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, 20 April, 2009 9:25:29 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-TIP] LAWRENCE family in Grange Mockler area Thanks, Mick - I obviously didn't pay close enough attention - this is what I got: Name:Honora LawrenceDate of Baptism / Birth:25/11/1860 Address:Not RecordedParish / District:BALLYNEALE PARISH Gender: FemaleCountyCo. Tipperary Denomination:Roman Catholic Father:Thomas LawrenceMother:Honora Maghan Occupation: Sponsor 1 /Informant 1:Edmond PhelanSponsor 2 /Informant 2:Alice Sullivn Notes:Priest J Hanahan Church Baptism Record Name:John LawrenceDate of Baptism / Birth:23/05/1858 Address:Not RecordedParish / District:BALLYNEALE PARISH Gender: MaleCountyCo. Tipperary Denomination:Roman Catholic Father:Thomas LawrenceMother:Honora Maguire Occupation: Sponsor 1 /Informant 1:Richard LaurenceSponsor 2 /Informant 2:Johanna Comerford Notes: THE MOTHERS NAME IN THE REGISTER IS MC GUIRE.THE STANDARD IS MAGUIRE.PRIEST J'TRACY So nothing definitive there.  Pity one can't see the originals as there must be a high likelihood of transcription errors.  I think maybe I'll wait to do further research until I can get my hands on the microfilms - and also hopefully there'll be a few gravestones to see. -- Cheers Andrew www.groupphoto.co.uk _______________________________________________________ Griffith's Valuation: http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths.php ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good morning Listers Am Researching Corbett /Daniels. Know Mary Corbett married Patrick Daniels in 1904 in Waterford. They went on to have 10 children, only 6 surviving infancy. I know Patrick was born in Carrick on Suir, of father John Daniels, and mother Alice Roache on 18 February 1880, and Mary's father was John Corbett, and I THINK her mother was Ellen Sullivan. Possible she was born in Islandtarnsy, Tramore, February or March, 1885.I believe they lived in Barrack Street, Waterford, also in a Barns lane I believe. Patrick was in the Irish Guards during WW!, and they moved to London at end of WW!. IS there anyone that can help me with any direction pointers, as I am REALLY stuck in this 1880 time warp, and would like to move on . Fingers crossed Marion Melbourne -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 30 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

I have read with interest the postings on the Lawrence family.   My wife's mother's family come from near Grange and are Lawrences also. I have only recently started on looking into them but wonder if they are related to some of the people already mentioned.   Her line goes back to Thomas Lawrence of Synone, born about 1857, who married Annie Shea at Boherlahan in 1878. Thomas's parents were Thomas Lawrence and Catherine Phillips.   Thomas (b.1857) and Annie had a large family, including a son William who married Catherine Lacey - the Laceys originally were from Grange.   Would be interested in making some connections, if anyone is looking into the same line.   Thanks   Denis

Hi all, just a funny question. I have often wondered at the origine of the name Laurence which falls in to my Comerford line from Grange mockler and Ballyneale it a long shot. But I have a James Lawrence {Laurence} Comerford from that exact part of Tipperary. I have been back there, the name Laurence or Lawrence is still there in the Comerford line. Can any one tell me where the name Lawrence is derived from, I did not think it was Irish. Laraine in Oz

Laraine, Thank you, I will have a look, and let you know what I find. Elizabeth LARAINE DILLON wrote: > Elizabeth, > maybe its a long shot and you can work backwards. I have a Mary Hogan who married a Comerford in Young and lived in Cowra all the Comerfords married folk from Tipperary. > Laraine > >

Elizabeth, maybe its a long shot and you can work backwards. I have a Mary Hogan who married a Comerford in Young and lived in Cowra all the Comerfords married folk from Tipperary. Laraine [email protected]

Thanks, Mick - I obviously didn't pay close enough attention - this is what I got: Name:Honora LawrenceDate of Baptism / Birth:25/11/1860 Address:Not RecordedParish / District:BALLYNEALE PARISH Gender: FemaleCountyCo. Tipperary Denomination:Roman Catholic Father:Thomas LawrenceMother:Honora Maghan Occupation: Sponsor 1 /Informant 1:Edmond PhelanSponsor 2 /Informant 2:Alice Sullivn Notes:Priest J Hanahan Church Baptism Record Name:John LawrenceDate of Baptism / Birth:23/05/1858 Address:Not RecordedParish / District:BALLYNEALE PARISH Gender: MaleCountyCo. Tipperary Denomination:Roman Catholic Father:Thomas LawrenceMother:Honora Maguire Occupation: Sponsor 1 /Informant 1:Richard LaurenceSponsor 2 /Informant 2:Johanna Comerford Notes: THE MOTHERS NAME IN THE REGISTER IS MC GUIRE.THE STANDARD IS MAGUIRE.PRIEST J'TRACY So nothing definitive there. Pity one can't see the originals as there must be a high likelihood of transcription errors. I think maybe I'll wait to do further research until I can get my hands on the microfilms - and also hopefully there'll be a few gravestones to see. -- Cheers Andrew www.groupphoto.co.uk