http://www.hiddentipperary.com/ Nice new site for those who haven't heard of it. Mary -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 309 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Your example is very telling with 'Senior' as the witness. As you say, it is not unusual for a witness to also be the sponsor for the first born child as I have many examples of that in other nationalities. Thank you for sharing. In a message dated 8/3/2011 7:13:35 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, janfortado@comcast.net writes: Somewhere along the line I learned that parents were sometimes the marriage witnesses for their children. I asked the question when, in my maternal line, a Darby Daly Sr. was the marriage witness for a Dary Daly who married Ellen Kingston. I wondered if that indicated that it was the father who was the marriage witness since he had "sr" after his name. In this case the name was also on the Baptismal record. I think it is possible that if parents served as marriage witnesses, since marriage witnesses were sometimes the Baptismal sponsors for the firstborn child, that parents could also serve as Baptismal sponsors. I have a case in Kildorrery, Cork, where a Denis Carroll served as marriage witness. That was the groom's father's name, but since more often than not it was a brother rather than the father who was the marriage witness, should I be looking for a brother to my ggrandmother? This becomes the type of question we all ask when we are trying to find ancestors who were born before church records were kept. It will be interesting to see what others have to share on this topic. IGP County Tipperary website: http://www.igp-web.com/tipperary/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-TIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Somewhere along the line I learned that parents were sometimes the marriage witnesses for their children. I asked the question when, in my maternal line, a Darby Daly Sr. was the marriage witness for a Dary Daly who married Ellen Kingston. I wondered if that indicated that it was the father who was the marriage witness since he had "sr" after his name. In this case the name was also on the Baptismal record. I think it is possible that if parents served as marriage witnesses, since marriage witnesses were sometimes the Baptismal sponsors for the firstborn child, that parents could also serve as Baptismal sponsors. I have a case in Kildorrery, Cork, where a Denis Carroll served as marriage witness. That was the groom's father's name, but since more often than not it was a brother rather than the father who was the marriage witness, should I be looking for a brother to my ggrandmother? This becomes the type of question we all ask when we are trying to find ancestors who were born before church records were kept. It will be interesting to see what others have to share on this topic.

I couldn't help but notice in the 1901 census that a great many women are "widow" and / or "head of household". Was life that tough on the men? Or was there a great difference of age because men had to be "established" before they married and women had to be of childbearing age. Thank you Kathy

Christina, Sorry, the parents. One of the many benefits of the GV tenure, rent, and field notes was to see who was living next to whom; I found neighbors as sponsors which made sense. After reading the Poor Law Union Rate of Tax films I saw the same connection in the 1841. Mary In a message dated 8/2/2011 10:58:50 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, chrisnina@gmail.com writes: Do you mean the grandparents be last resort or parents? It would be nice to know if family connections were usually or almost always used. I have some that look like neighbors. Wish I knew if they were related. Christina MMamalakis@aol.com wrote: > As long as I am bringing up sponsors and witnesses, I wrestle with > determining who was selected for the sacrament within the family as I try to match > names within a group; have any of you found that siblings were picked > first generally, then an uncle or aunt? Wouldn't the parents be the last resort > as sponsors/witnesses? IGP County Tipperary website: http://www.igp-web.com/tipperary/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-TIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Do you mean the grandparents be last resort or parents? It would be nice to know if family connections were usually or almost always used. I have some that look like neighbors. Wish I knew if they were related. Christina MMamalakis@aol.com wrote: > As long as I am bringing up sponsors and witnesses, I wrestle with > determining who was selected for the sacrament within the family as I try to match > names within a group; have any of you found that siblings were picked > first generally, then an uncle or aunt? Wouldn't the parents be the last resort > as sponsors/witnesses?

Hello, Though I am aware that in most cases a female sponsor and/or witness would be listed under her maiden name, I wanted to ask any of you if you found a record with a woman under her married name? I know that in special circumstances with say a baptism of an infant who barely survived the birth, the mother may have stepped in to act as the sponsor because time was of the essence and she was listed with her married name. I am also curious if a woman was referred to by her married name as respect towards one's age, or to put it another way, is there ever a point when the priest no longer lists the maiden name but only the married name? As long as I am bringing up sponsors and witnesses, I wrestle with determining who was selected for the sacrament within the family as I try to match names within a group; have any of you found that siblings were picked first generally, then an uncle or aunt? Wouldn't the parents be the last resort as sponsors/witnesses? Thanks in advance, Mary M.

Hi Pat, Thanks for all the recent inputs and the info about the National Library in Dublin planning to digitize the records by year's end. Mary Mamalakis In a message dated 8/1/2011 8:53:57 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, nymets22@gmail.com writes: The accuracy of transcriptions of records are only as good as the transcriber and the condition of the records. One should never take another's transcription as a source document for your own genealogy. One should always check the original records before using the record as a source. Of course, in the case of the RC religious records in Ireland, we cannot get hold of the originals to check on the accuracy of the transcription if we live outside Ireland. However, some RC church records and many other types of records are available through the Family History Library and distributed all over the world. Last year, the Library of Ireland announced that they were digitalizing the church record films they have in their collections and getting them online by the end of this year for free access to the public. Hopefully, this will be happening soon and then we can check all those religious records that we paid the county genealogy organizations in Ireland for. > I've been doing some searching in the Irish Genealogy site and I can't > believe how many, in my opinion, stupid mistakes they have made in the > indexing. > > -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com IGP County Tipperary website: http://www.igp-web.com/tipperary/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-TIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have Duggans in Tipp. Michael, father Patrick, mother Mary. I don't have the parish. -----Original Message----- From: irl-tipperary-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-tipperary-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Colleen G. Kennedy Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:51 PM To: 'JUNE METCALFE'; irl-tipperary@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-TIP] KENNEDY, O'CONNORS, DUGGAN, O'DWYER ROLL CALL June, My g-g-grandfather was Patrick Kennedy, born about 1835 in Ireland. He married Catherine (Kate) McCarthy, also born in Ireland, on Sept. 7, 1856 at St. Patrick's Chapel in Lancaster, Manchester England. Their marriage certificate lists his father as James Kennedy and her father as John McCarthy but their birthplace is only listed as Ireland. They came to Staten Island, NY sometime before 1875 when their youngest child was born. Colleen -----Original Message----- From: irl-tipperary-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-tipperary-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of JUNE METCALFE Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:25 AM To: irl-tipperary@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-TIP] KENNEDY, O'CONNORS, DUGGAN, O'DWYER ROLL CALL Hi, I'm constantly searching for the above names in Co Tip.  Have a KENNEDY family who came over to Rotherham, Yorkshire, England in the early 1850s.  I have lots of information from then onwards.  My Kennedys came from Cahir, Ballinderry and Ballingarry in South Co Tipperary.  Names which married into the line in Ireland are O'Dwyer, O'Connors & Duggan.  'Family' names of the Kennedys are Patrick, John, Sylvester, Michael and Annie.  Other less popular names are Agnes, Catherine, Edward, James, Margaret, Mary and Thomas. Hoping to make connection with other researchers to share/compare  information.   JuneM Researching  Jackson & Kennedy in Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Ireland "May you have always...A sunbeam to warm you, a moonbeam to charm you, a sheltering angel so nothing can harm you.  Laughter to cheer you, and faithful friends near you" IGP County Tipperary website: http://www.igp-web.com/tipperary/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-TIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message IGP County Tipperary website: http://www.igp-web.com/tipperary/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-TIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The accuracy of transcriptions of records are only as good as the transcriber and the condition of the records. One should never take another's transcription as a source document for your own genealogy. One should always check the original records before using the record as a source. Of course, in the case of the RC religious records in Ireland, we cannot get hold of the originals to check on the accuracy of the transcription if we live outside Ireland. However, some RC church records and many other types of records are available through the Family History Library and distributed all over the world. Last year, the Library of Ireland announced that they were digitalizing the church record films they have in their collections and getting them online by the end of this year for free access to the public. Hopefully, this will be happening soon and then we can check all those religious records that we paid the county genealogy organizations in Ireland for. > I've been doing some searching in the Irish Genealogy site and I can't > believe how many, in my opinion, stupid mistakes they have made in the > indexing. > > -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

I have just added the following civil parish tithe applotments to the County Tipperary sections of my website: Erry Civil Parish, South Riding Monsea Civil Parish, North Riding -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

I put out a call on a few Irish lists for Ancestor photos to put in the IGP Archives this month. We got a few. If you have one or more to share (assuming you know the county) you can use our Photo uploader to add them. We are about preserving our ancestors faces as well as their names. http://www.genrecords.org/irfiles/photos.html Example: http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/longford/photos.htm All the best...Christina

Mary I'm puzzled Why are you searching for Tipperary related items on www.irishgenealogy.ie ? I thought (and can only find) it only covered parish records for Dublin Kerry and part Cork but definitely nothing for Tipperary. Have I been missing a major source of information? Clare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Heaphy" <tipwex@eircom.net> To: "Tipperary, Irl" <IRL-TIPPERARY-L@rootsweb.com>; "Tipperary, Co" <cotipperary@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 9:30 AM Subject: [IRL-TIP] Re indexing. > I've been doing some searching in the Irish Genealogy site and I can't > believe how many, in my opinion, stupid mistakes they have made in the > indexing. > http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/ > Maher down as Maker. > Thurles down as Murles. > Holycross down as Holly Crop > Turtulla down as Jertulla. > Borrisokane down as Bernod Kane. > Carrick-on-Suir as Carrick-on-Quin. > Roscrea as Roserea. > Lismacue as Lisinacue. > Lemerak as Limerick. > Tipperary as Jipperary. > And thats only a few. How anyone could index Tipperary as Jipperary is > unbelievable. Surely everybody in Ireland knows or should know how to > spell > it. > >>From the new Kerry Cemeteries site I only looked up two and both were > indexed incorrectly. > My father-in-law is down as Murphy in the index, should be Heaphy. > My mother-in-law is down as Healy in the index, should be Heaphy as well. > > Thats today's rant over. > Cheers > Mary > > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 306 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > IGP County Tipperary website: > http://www.igp-web.com/tipperary/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-TIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 1405 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

I've been doing some searching in the Irish Genealogy site and I can't believe how many, in my opinion, stupid mistakes they have made in the indexing. http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/ Maher down as Maker. Thurles down as Murles. Holycross down as Holly Crop Turtulla down as Jertulla. Borrisokane down as Bernod Kane. Carrick-on-Suir as Carrick-on-Quin. Roscrea as Roserea. Lismacue as Lisinacue. Lemerak as Limerick. Tipperary as Jipperary. And thats only a few. How anyone could index Tipperary as Jipperary is unbelievable. Surely everybody in Ireland knows or should know how to spell it. >From the new Kerry Cemeteries site I only looked up two and both were indexed incorrectly. My father-in-law is down as Murphy in the index, should be Heaphy. My mother-in-law is down as Healy in the index, should be Heaphy as well. Thats today's rant over. Cheers Mary -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 306 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Rosemary I'm assuming you are overseas and can't call to the GRO in Dublin.You can download an application form for a death cert at www.groireland.ie You have the necessary details already - Richard Burke Thurles Registration District Year 1888 Quarter Oct Dec vol 3 page 381 Suggest you ask for a photocopy of the entry as it costs less and you get the same information as on a cert. A word of caution - death records give very little details just name age occupation where died cause of death and informant (sometimes but not always it gives the relationship of the informant to the deceased) Good Luck Clare Tuohy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rosemary Wake" <erwake@btinternet.com> To: <irl-tipperary@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 6:08 PM Subject: [IRL-TIP] Richard Burke death record >I am still trying to track down the date/ place of death of my ancestor >Richard Burke and his wife (?Margaret probably Heffernan). They died aged >about 85 and 92 respectively sometime before the 1901 census, having had >children in the 1840/50s. A relation believed they lived at one time in >Thurles. A couple of years ago I came across the following record which >might be him, on the familysearch pilot (but have not been able to find it >again). Can anyone suggest how I can access the document? > Name: Richard Burke > Registration district: Thurles > Record type: DEATHS > Registration date - quarter and year: Oct - Dec 1888 > Estimated birth year: 1808 > Age: 80 > Mother's surnames: > Film number: 101594 > Volume: 3 > Page: 381 > Digital GS number: 4200676 > Image number: 00465 > Collection: Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes 1845-1958 > The family had six children, two at least of whom (Richard, who was a > Church of Ireland minister (daughter Maggie Bella) and John, who sang and > toured with Sankey and Moody (father of Richard, George, Daisy and Emma) > both of whom emigrated to Chicago, Cook County; as possibly did sister > Mary who in 1864, in Tullamulien, Newcastle, married Michael Thomas Shea, > a schoolmaster from Templemore and of whom I have found no later trace; > reputed to have had a daughter Dorothy or Dottie). Richard Burke, land > steward and school teacher, last appears as witness at his daughters' > weddings in 1864 and 1867. > > All help appreciated. > > IGP County Tipperary website: > http://www.igp-web.com/tipperary/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-TIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 1397 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

I am still trying to track down the date/ place of death of my ancestor Richard Burke and his wife (?Margaret probably Heffernan). They died aged about 85 and 92 respectively sometime before the 1901 census, having had children in the 1840/50s. A relation believed they lived at one time in Thurles. A couple of years ago I came across the following record which might be him, on the familysearch pilot (but have not been able to find it again). Can anyone suggest how I can access the document? Name: Richard Burke Registration district: Thurles Record type: DEATHS Registration date - quarter and year: Oct - Dec 1888 Estimated birth year: 1808 Age: 80 Mother's surnames: Film number: 101594 Volume: 3 Page: 381 Digital GS number: 4200676 Image number: 00465 Collection: Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes 1845-1958 The family had six children, two at least of whom (Richard, who was a Church of Ireland minister (daughter Maggie Bella) and John, who sang and toured with Sankey and Moody (father of Richard, George, Daisy and Emma) both of whom emigrated to Chicago, Cook County; as possibly did sister Mary who in 1864, in Tullamulien, Newcastle, married Michael Thomas Shea, a schoolmaster from Templemore and of whom I have found no later trace; reputed to have had a daughter Dorothy or Dottie). Richard Burke, land steward and school teacher, last appears as witness at his daughters' weddings in 1864 and 1867. All help appreciated.

June, My g-g-grandfather was Patrick Kennedy, born about 1835 in Ireland. He married Catherine (Kate) McCarthy, also born in Ireland, on Sept. 7, 1856 at St. Patrick's Chapel in Lancaster, Manchester England. Their marriage certificate lists his father as James Kennedy and her father as John McCarthy but their birthplace is only listed as Ireland. They came to Staten Island, NY sometime before 1875 when their youngest child was born. Colleen -----Original Message----- From: irl-tipperary-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-tipperary-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of JUNE METCALFE Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:25 AM To: irl-tipperary@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-TIP] KENNEDY, O'CONNORS, DUGGAN, O'DWYER ROLL CALL Hi, I'm constantly searching for the above names in Co Tip.  Have a KENNEDY family who came over to Rotherham, Yorkshire, England in the early 1850s.  I have lots of information from then onwards.  My Kennedys came from Cahir, Ballinderry and Ballingarry in South Co Tipperary.  Names which married into the line in Ireland are O'Dwyer, O'Connors & Duggan.  'Family' names of the Kennedys are Patrick, John, Sylvester, Michael and Annie.  Other less popular names are Agnes, Catherine, Edward, James, Margaret, Mary and Thomas. Hoping to make connection with other researchers to share/compare  information.   JuneM      Researching  Jackson & Kennedy in Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Ireland "May you have always...A sunbeam to warm you, a moonbeam to charm you, a sheltering angel so nothing can harm you.  Laughter to cheer you, and faithful friends near you" IGP County Tipperary website: http://www.igp-web.com/tipperary/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-TIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is the website for FamilySearch.org https://www.familysearch.org/ His record is still there. Nancy

Hello Dick in my haste to put details on roll call I omitted to give more details of information about the branch of Caswell that I have been tracing. All the people I put on roll call migrated to Australia. Andrew Caswell was born around 1794 he was a Presbyterian and his wife Margaret Carroll was Catholic I don't have the names of the parents or any siblings Andrew may have had. He and his wife and children migrated on the Maitland in 1854 and settled in Tasmania, Australia. I'm sorry I can't be of help but I wish you all the best with your research I will have my fingers crossed that I can find some more about the elusive Andrew and who knows maybe I will find my Andrew and your Mary Ann were related. If I get any information that connects to your Mary Ann I will certainly pass it on to you Kind regards Fay Caswell Hobart. Tasmaia. Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: <irl-tipperary-request@rootsweb.com> To: <irl-tipperary@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 5:01 PM Subject: IRL-TIPPERARY Digest, Vol 6, Issue 101 > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > DELETE all extra text in the Digest > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Caswell (Richard Mccutcheon) > 2. McCutcheon-Caswell-Canada (Andy & Norma McAuliffe) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 22:04:12 -0400 > From: Richard Mccutcheon <annanddick@shaw.ca> > Subject: [IRL-TIP] Caswell > To: irl-tipperary@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <fb2c85154ae65.4e2f39dc@shaw.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Fay <fay42@bigpond.net.au> wrote: > >> Roll Call? Caswell Andrew his wife Margaret nee Caroll >> children Ann, Elizabeth, Samuel and John (around Newport >> Tipperary) also Tynan and Nevill? (Neville) > > Fay: > Do you have a time frame for this? > > My g-g-grandfather, Robert F. McCUTCHIN, b.1806, Killalane Townland (not > far from Newport) > married? 20 Nov 1827 > Mary Ann CASWELL, b. 1804. > Unfortunately, I have absolutely no information about Mary Ann's > birthplace, parents or siblings. > or the place of the Robert/Mary Ann marriage. Also, I have no > documentation - just family lore. > > They had 7 children prior to emigrating to Canada in 1843 and 2 others > after arriving here. > > I have lots of information about descendents and probable information on > Robert's parents. > I'll be interested to see your response. > > Dick McCutcheon > Sault Ste Marie, Ontario > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 22:35:57 -0400 > From: "Andy & Norma McAuliffe" <namac@rogers.com> > Subject: [IRL-TIP] McCutcheon-Caswell-Canada > To: <irl-tipperary@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <3EA065483DB94B4D86A45EF0828F5E40@AndrewPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Dick: I wonder if others of her Caswell family settled in the Durham, > Ontario area, my home town. Incidentally my wife Norma (Becker) was from > "Old Garden River Road". > Andy McAuliffe, Kitchener > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Mccutcheon" <annanddick@shaw.ca> > >> Roll Call Caswell Andrew his wife Margaret nee Caroll > > Dick McCutcheon > Sault Ste Marie, Ontario > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the IRL-TIPPERARY list administrator, send an email to > IRL-TIPPERARY-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the IRL-TIPPERARY mailing list, send an email to > IRL-TIPPERARY@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-TIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of IRL-TIPPERARY Digest, Vol 6, Issue 101 > *********************************************

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