Hi I've checked my files and can find no mention of Cramer(or variant) anywhere in association with the Irish Palatines. However, there were at least three Kramer/Kremer families that came out of Rotterdam in 1709 (3rd and 6th parties) but there is no evidence that they went on to Ireland. In fact, there were two Kramer families in the New York Party as well as two Cramer families returned to Holland as Catholics. However, the name CRAMER is not uncommon in Ireland and predates the Palatine influx by at least 100 years. These Irish CRAMERs may vell have originated in Germany though, as I have also seen reference to a variant spelling as VON CRAMER! Hope this helps! Chris Le Gear _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.