Hi, friends More material from the ubiquitous, meticulous, wonderful Tenison G. It must have been pretty awesome reading and copying the original copperplate MSS. [#J: This document rounds off all the financial detail relating to the Palatines' landlord, Thomas Southwell, in the territories around Rathkeale up to Midsummer 1714. This is straight text - i.e. no columns of figures. Bliss] ***START HERE*** Certificate of 24 June 1714 of Com of Pal So that by the said Mr Moland's Report dated 18 March 1712 which we refer to as an authoritative Voucher We find that the said Sir Thomas Southwell has lost by the setting the Palatines his land at a less rate than it was worth, and that he might then have had from others, and by what he had delivered them in Timber to the value of £993 15s sterling. We further think it proper to observe That by the said Mr Moland's Report It appears that the said Palatines are naturally industrious and chiefly employ themselves in Husbandry and sowing and dressing of Flax and Hemp in which through their industry and diligent application they have attained to a considerable proficiency, And if well encouraged and supported for some short time may thereby be enabled to get themselves and families very comfortable livings as well as become serviceable to this country especially in the Hempen manufacture. All which we certify this 24th day of June 1714 Will.Dublin Isaac Manley, Tho Quin, John Pearson, Fran.Harrison, Antho Barkey, Saml Walton ***END HERE*** [We might note the contribution of Thomas Quin, Earl of Dunraven, with his seat in Adare - a member of the Commission since its inception in 1709. His interest in securing a stake in the Palatine experiment will become increasingly apparent as our Thomas Southwell is 'obliged' to introduce a hike in the rents levied at a later date. This explains to some degree why our families around Rathkeale saw the benefit of the larger tracts that became available around Adare - and, as family researchers will grasp immediately, was clearly one of the reasons why births, marriages and deaths suddenly came to a halt in the locality of the Trinity church. My own Piper records show a baptismal gap in the Rathkeale registers of over 50 years after 1823; there was a clear 30-year gap in local burials from 1763 and another of 26 years after 1839. Marriages cease after 1838, but the Adare extracts provided by Barb Milburn et al., show the family spreading outwards from 1826. All very interesting. For my next trick, I shall go back to basics: all the extant official documents dating from August 1709] Bye bye Terry

Hello [#I: This is the wages bill intended to silence the complaints of the Paymaster, the Accountant and the Commissary of Muster regarding delays in settlement. In this further financial breakdown, I have simply shifted the figures column with the Tab key a suitable number of spaces. Inevitably, Web formatting will throw that all out, so you will need to re-align it to suit yourselves (if, as I imagine, you appreciate a neat layout).] ***START HERE*** Entry Book of King's & Queen's Letters & of Reports &c Vol 21 for 1715-1716 1E-2-13 in Record Office Dublin page 162 The Rt Hon Sir Tho Southwell's Account in relation to the Palatines settled on his Estate, for & until 25 March 1714 1712 Sir Tho Southwell Dr £ s d April 16 John Smales 200 0 0 " 28 John Smales (Mr Clement's Bank Bill) 400 0 0 May 2 John Smales (Acquittance on Collector of Limerick) 300 0 0 " 2 John Smales 129 0 0 Nov 8 Francis Leicester, to buy Stock, 200 0 0 Feb 17 Francis Leicester 176 0 0 Feb 20 Francis Leicester 25 0 0 March 18 Captain John Pratt, Warrant for £130 1713 less £3 18s Treasury Fees 126 2 0 May 5 Foliot Sherigley, Warrant for £128 less £3 16s 9 3/4d Treasury Fees 124 3. 2¼ Sep 19 Foliot Sherigley 50 0 0 Jan 8 Foliot Sherigley, Warrant for £128 less £3 16s 9 ¾d Treasury Fees being the full allowance to said 128 families due 25 March 1714 124 3. 2¼ CHARGE £1978 11 6¾ Balance due to Sir Tho Southwell 557 16 4¼ £2536 7 11 ***END HERE*** [Just a final Certificate of approval of Thomas Southwell's claims for reimbursement to come - next #J] Bye Bye Terry

Hi The beat goes on [#H: This is the Certificate issued by the Palatine Commissioners by way of acceptance of the accounts of Thomas Southwell, in support of his claim for funds from the Queen's Bounty - which has now run out. And Queen Anne has been succeeded on the throne by George of Hanover, a German-speaking Protestant who knew no English. This King was much maligned by historians and commentators over the centuries, but he achieved a great deal of positive benefit in his lifetime - I am told.] ***START HERE*** Entry Book of King's & Queen's Letters & of Reports &c 1E-2-13 in Rec Off Dublin Vol 21 pages 162-5 Certificate dated 24 June 1714 by the Commissioners of Palatines in Ireland That they have vouched the account of Sir Thomas Southwell set out at page 162 of the same volume with the Palatines settled on his estate for & until 25 March last 1714 and found it correct and they go on as follows And Whereas Mr Joseph Moland, the sworn Surveyor, of the city of Dublin, was ordered by Us to go down to Rathkeale and other lands in the county of Limerick belonging to the said Sir Thomas Southwell, and there to view and inspect into the state of the Palatine families settled thereon &c As also to make a true Return of the several species and value of the lands set out to them by the said Sir Thomas Southwell as the same are really worth, and might be set for to others, without the houses being built thereon, with the value of the Timber given by the said Sir Thomas Southwell towards building the said houses, which he returns as following, viz 280 Acres All Meadow and Arable land worth 10s p.annum per acre but is now let to the Palatines for 3 lives at 6s p.an p.acre whereby is lost to Sir Thomas Southwell £56 p.ann. which at 10 years purchase amounts to £560 Real value yearly £140 Set to Palatines at yearly £84 Loss yearly £56 Loss for three lives at 10 years purchase £560 200 Acres Arable Meadow & Pasture worth 7s p.an. per acre but is let to the Palatines for 3 lives at 6s p.an per acre Real value yearly £70 Set to the Palatines at yearly £60 Loss yearly £10 Loss for 3 lives at 10 years purchase £100 427 Acres Arable Meadow & Pasture at 6s p.an per acre and the same set to the Palatines for 3 lives at 6s p.an p.acre Real value yearly £128. 2s Total Loss yearly £66 Total loss for 3 lives at 10 years purchase £660 Timber delivered to the said Palatines by Sir Tho Southwell for 55 houses as per said Report worth £275 Timber delivered to same for 50 small cabins as per said Report worth £58 15s Total £993 15s ***END HERE*** [The superb analysis of the Palatine experiment, "People Make Places" by Patrick O'Connor, guesses that the term "three lives" meant 31 years (p.36)] Bye bye Terry

Dear Mary I have lost track. Is there another Lois on this list? If not, what was the question? Which web site? Lois Sparling Calgary, Alberta Jack & Mary wrote: > > First of all my grateful thanks to those who passed on information, I thought I had emailed everyone. Sorry Lois, you help was wonderful..do you happen to have the address for web site, or what site I would be looking for..thanks >

Hello Some buttock-clenching detail here. It took ages to type and seems to have slid all over the place. It's dull, but in some way illuminating about the kind of things we don't usually hear about. [#G: This is the first of 3 documents setting out the accounts of Sir Thomas Southwell, the Palatine's landlord at Rathkeale, Co. Limerick: the Certificate of his claim for £993 15s for loss of land revenues and gifts of timber, etc., for housing; the Debit account (Dr.) for salaries and so forth paid out, leaving £557 16s 4 3/4d due to him; and the Credit account (Cr.) offsetting income for rents ("gales"), subsistence and loans paid out to the families in his care. I will explain the monetary niceties in due course - not out of deference to our cousins in the 'Colonies' but largely because few people under 30 in Britain today have the vaguest idea what it all means…..Scary. ] ***START HERE*** Entry Book of King's & Queen's letters & of Reports &c Vol 21 for 1715-1716 1E-2-13 in Rc Off Dublin page 163 The Rt Hon Sir Tho Southwell's Account in relation to the Palatines settled on his estate, for & until 25 March 1714 Sir Tho Southwell Cr 1 £ s d 1 March 26 One month's subsistence of Palatines 5 7 0 2 April 16 Mr Daniel Hintz, for a horse, April 21 and earnest money to carriers 30 0 0 4 April 21 Mr Daniel Hintz, for 95 cars to carry Palatines to the country 95 0 0 3 April 18 Palatines subsistence 15 7 0 5 Nov 13 Mr Smales, Cash paid at several times 173 11 2 6 May 15 Palatine's subsistence, including £5 8s to a poor woman 20 15 0 7 June 12 Palatines' subsistence for one month 15 10 0 8 July 10 do 5 10 0 9 July 12 Mr Daniel Hintz, by Mr Robinson 50 0 0 10 Aug 7 Mr Daniel Hintz in 3 payments 150 0 0 11 Aug 7 Palatines' subsistence 1 month 15 10 0 12 Sep 4 do 15 19 0 13 Sep 26 Mr Daniel Hintz by Mr Robinson 26 18 0 15 Oct 11 do 50 0 0 14 Oct 2 Palatines subsistence 1 month 15 19 0 16 Oct 30 do 15 19 0 17 Nov 5 85 families of Palatines by Mr Robinson 87 16 0 18 Nov 16 Mr Daniel Hintz by Mr Elliott For Paper & Printing the Palatines Leases 5 0 0 A man & horse with said Leases to Rathkel 1 10 0 19 Jan 5 Paid to the Palatines by Mr Samuel Robinson 87 16 0 20 Nov 28 Mr John Shaw, for the interest of his Lease of Ballingarane 200 0 0 21 Feb 12 Palatines, to buy stock 183 15 0 23 March 5 6 Palatine families for Stock money 24 3 0 32 Aug 6 Stock money for 4 families 7 0 0 22 Mar 5 Palatines, 8 weeks subsistence 175 12 0 28 Apr 9 Palatines 2 weeks subsistence 85 families 43 18 0 25 Apr 17 Abraham Berghman his arrear 3 18 0 A messenger to Cork to look for Hempseed 0 12 0 26 Mar 26 6 Hogsheads of Flaxseed of Mr Verdon 24 0 0 27 May 8 Carriage of same to Limerick 23 cwt 2 qrs 11 lbs at 5s 1d per cwt 5 1710½ Carriage of same to Rathkeale 0 19 0 28 May 8 8 Hogsheads of Hempseed from Mr Verdon 18 6 6 29 May 8 Carriage of same to Rathkeale 25 cwt 2 qrs 14 lbs at 5s per cwt 6 8 1½ Town Custom for Hempseed & Flaxseed 0 6 6 30 May 20 Palatines a fortnight's subsistence 43 18 0 31 July 29 do 43 18 0 in 1713 Dr Egan, the Physician, in part 4 12 0 the Apothecary, in part of his Bill 5 0 0 Charges in sending for thier money to Limerick Loss in Paying it by driblets, Postage of Letters and Defending some of them from Lawsuits 10 0 0 The Rt Hon Sir Tho Southwell's Account in relation to the Palatines settled on his estate, for & until 25 March 1714 Sir Tho Southwell Cr 2 £ s d 33 July 22 Cash lent to the Palatines 46 3 3 34 Aug 12 Cash lent to the Palatines by Mr Sam Robinson 43 18 0 35 Oct 28 Cash paid 15 families that have no land 30 0 0 36 Nov 16 Palatines of Ballingarrane 5 19 2 38 Nov 17 Palatines of Ballingarrane to pay their debts 33 12 8 37 Nov 17 Palatines of Killiheen 48 1 9 41 Feb 29 Cash lent Palatines of Courtmatress and Killiheen to build their houses 21 16. 11½ 1712/13 39 Feb 16 Rent due at Michaelmass 1712 from Palatines of Killiheen 300 0 0 1713 40 Dec 25 Rent & Cash due by the Palatines of Courtmatress 30 families 153 19. 11½ May 1st 1711 The 30 families entered on 200 acres of Courtmatrass & 31 acres of Castlematrass at 6s p.acre p.ann In all 240 acres Michaelmass 1711 These 3 gales are March 1712 discounted for in Michaelmass 1712 Voucher no 40 Michaelmass 1713 One years rent then due of said 30 families 72 0 0 March 1714 1/2 years rent then due of said 30 families 36 0 0 April 1712 The 25 families entered on the lands of Killiheen containing 202 acres at 6s p.acre p.annum Michaelmass 1712 this gales rent discounted For in Voucher No 39 Michaelmass 1713 One years rent then due of said 25 families 60 12 0 March 1714 1/2 years rent then due of said 25 families 30 6 0 Michaelmass 1713 By one years rent then due out of Ballingarrane containing 423 acres set to 50 families at 6s p.acre 126 18 0 March 1714 1/2 years rent then due out of Ballingarrane 68 9 0 Total 2536 7 11 ***END HERE*** [Right. In principle, accounts are extremely boring. But if you keep these figures to hand, you will see how they are challenged at the highest level in a document that can be found in the IRL-Palatine Index (7 Dec. 2000). If you can't get it that way, I will post it again. In any case, the details here do give some flavour of life in the Palatine encampments in the Rathkeale constituency. All part of the service...nothing if not thorough.] Notes: A 'gale' is rent due on land. A 'cwt' is a hundredweight - about a waist-high sackful. A 'hogshead' is a large cask that could hold the equivalent of about 50 gallons. If you hadn't guessed, the use of 'do.' means ditto (the same). Likewise, '&c' means etcetera. A pound sterling (£) was 20 shillings (about 4 dollars, once upon a time). 1/2 d. is a halfpenny. 1/4d. is a farthing (quarter of a penny). Bye bye Terry

Hi, Terry - ><<It was simply LDS data. >> I see. Thanks. ><< I think we should not be too sceptical about the LDS info. I would say >that 98% of the details they give (on Pipers, at least) are exactly as I >recorded them in the Rathkeale Rectory some 20 years ago. >> Well, there are two kinds of LDS data online in that search-able file at www.familysearch.org... One type is IGI, and the other kind consists of family files submitted by church members. For many years church members could submit their family pedigrees without much in the way of a source citation. All those files were simply added to the mix - unverified and often totally undocumented. Even though the IGI information is more reliable than the family files, it is advisable to use it/them only as a starting point from whence to verify the findings... Thanks. Susan

First of all my grateful thanks to those who passed on information, I thought I had emailed everyone. Sorry Lois, you help was wonderful..do you happen to have the address for web site, or what site I would be looking for..thanks - A family named Stark, live in Fort St. John, B.C. Canada, you may be able to get the address for the telephone site. I also have two books from Manitoba Canada,for the Blanshard area, spelled different than the Ont. one.. I will do look up for anyone if you like,I know that there were a lot of Sheirs, Sparlings,Doupe, and Empery,plus others that lived in Ont, and moved to Manitoba in the 1870, also Millers, the one I am searching out. I will have the following microfilm in a couple of day "M" crown Land Records.Mas-Miller John -ms691-46 and MS691--47, if I can be of help. take care Mary McD

Susan It was simply LDS data. I typed Empey - Ireland (any event/any time). It came back with 25 possibilities. The one I mentioned seemed the closest. He would have been about 17 in 1786. I think we should not be too sceptical about the LDS info. I would say that 98% of the details they give (on Pipers, at least) are exactly as I recorded them in the Rathkeale Rectory some 20 years ago. One or two dubious ones, but that's all. Terry PS If you (or anyone) should wonder where I get the time to spend here with the List, it's because I've taken a week off work, just for the heck of it. I needed a break. <g> (Is this right?)

Walter Whoa. Please don't misunderstand me. Under no circumstances do I mean to blacken the name of Thomas Southwell, whom I sometimes mistakenly call 'Lord'. He was a mere baronet, i.e. Sir Tho., not "ennobled" until rather later (if ever...). I occasionally get him confused with Thomas Wyndham-Quin, Lord Dunraven of Adare, who comes on the scene sometime later. No. Quite simply, if it weren't for the general good Thomas brought to the whole colonial experiment, well, me Daddy for one would not have gone to Rathkeale No 2 school. Nor would I be typing this. The Southwell accounts might have been fudged at times, as we shall see. He might also have had a keen eye to his own interests. But by and large he was a benign force. I think. That Thomas was a very beneficial influence in respect of the Palatines, is my opinion. And that is exactly the point. It's my opinion. My interpretation. Which brings me to the matter of my focus when posting these Transcripts. I believe we are very privileged to have access to this material: it is first-hand, man-on-the-spot information. We don't have to study the background of the Palatines through the (sometimes biased or simply mistaken) interpretations of historians. We make up our own minds what is going on. We are using the information the historians and analysts might also have used. But we know it's TRUE. No-one could invent this kind of documentation. Much of it is official Parliamentary proceedings and Treasury data, too. It's authentic and verifiable. And we can interpret it as we choose. I started in 1713 to set the stage, as it were. To give a flavour of the foot-dragging, sometimes toadying attitudes of British and Irish officialdom. These guys, whilst ostensibly well-meaning and generally loyal to the cause, nevertheless jockeyed for some status and profit to themselves. This is the reason the Palatines were kept hanging around from the Spring of 1709, when they left their native villages, drifting down the Rhine (with 24 tollbooths and customs posts to manipulate) for between 4 and 6 weeks, a further 6 weeks or so in Rotterdam, 7 days across the North Sea, up to 2 months at Blackheath/Camberwell and then the journey overland to Chester, followed by the crossing to Ireland and many more months on end in Dublin. God almighty - the journey would have killed most of us. But the havering didn't stop there. OK, Walter. Maybe I was a bit too flippant with my little comments, but I mean them to help in understanding the purpose of these texts. It's fine if you see a parallel between Mayor Daley and Thomas Southwell. That's your interpretation. Affectionately Terry

I have long suspected the Hindman family who emigrated to Canada from Ireland circa 1840 to be of German origin. Anyone out there know anything re this notion of mine ? [email protected]

Susan What about John Empey, b. 14 Sep. 1769 in Eyrecourt, Galway, Ireland; spouse Hannah Hunt (b. 9 Jan 1769, in Greenwich, Sussex, NJ), m. 5 Dec. 1793, in Ashgrove, Albany NY. Both died in "Empey Hill", Richmond, Ontario - he abt. 1850, she 15 Mar. 1851? Or is my source defective? If it seems OK, there is also an Elijah and a Francis, but they may just be residuals, living in Strokestown, Roscommon in the 1800s. Food for thought. Terry

Hi More of the same. [#F: The following is a desperate appeal by Thomas Southwell, landlord to the Palatine families in Limerick County, addressed to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, later in 1714 (with reference to the Midsummer reckonings). Thomas is looking for support for his claim to a fair dividend from the Treasury towards the upkeep of the German immigrants. A breakdown of his accounts is set out in the next consignment (#G) and brings us a bit closer to home, in terms of the movements of our - by now, near prostrate - Palatines.] ***START HERE*** Entry Book of King's & Queen's Letters & of Reports &c Vol 21 for 1715-16 1E-2-13 in Record Office Dublin p 156 To His Excellency Henry Earl Of Galway The Humble petition of Sir Thomas Southwell baronet SHEWETH THAT the said Sir Thomas Southwell having sent down 130 German Protestant Families in his estate in the county Limeric in or about Michaelmass 1712. And for their encouragement to settle and be a security to the Protestant interest in that country, He the said Sir Thomas, set them his land at almost half what it was worth, and gave them timber also to build their houses to a very great value. And for their further encouragement did from time to time supply them with cash and other necessaries, as certified by the Trustees for settling the poor Palatines, who having also viewed the accounts and vouchers allowed the sum of £557 16s 4d to be due to the said Sir Thos being by him lent to those poor Protestants when the Fund in the late Queen's time fell short, or they must otherwise have inevitably perished, and the last 90 families would have left the Kingdom, if the said Sir Thos had not then advanced that money. That all those families are since well settled and follow the raising of Hemp and Flax, and have a good stock, which the said Sir Thos tho' very unwillingly, must sieze upon to reimburse him for his great expenses which he has been 3 or 4 years out of, to his excessive loss, Besides the loss of almost £200 sterling per annum for 3 lives to his family, Unless his Majesty will be graciously pleased to repay the said Sir Thos his principal and interest of the said money by him so disbursed, and a consideration for the timber &c by him advanced to the said Palatines according to accounts audited and stated by the said Trustees on the 24 June 1714. ***END HERE*** [I know, I know - what is Michaelmass? This is one of the Quarter Days of the year, when accounts are usually reckoned, bills are paid and dues collected. Lady Day is 25 March, Midsummer is 24 June (look at the date of the audit in the next batch), Michaelmas is 29 September and Christmas is 25 December, of course. For the genealogists that we are, it is perhaps useful to know that the Rectors in their parishes also got all the certificates, registers and so forth together from the previous 3 months, for submission to the higher church authorities at about these same times (Epiphany 6 January; Easter 31 March, etc). As we also know, this was the time when those goodlie clerics picked up the bundles of papers and shuffled them around, put teacups, cream buns and goblets of mead on the important bits in the page and tore corners off to light their candles at the altar. Which is one of the main reasons we trawlers of the truth spend so many fruitless hours making sense of recorded drivel, falsity and outright obfuscation - yes, I too had to check that last one in the dictionary, to be sure I wasn't misleading you. We have enough problems.] Bye bye Terry

Hiy'all It's so lovely to see business continuing as usual in the List department, despite my continuing interjections. You can - or not - just save them and read at your leisure. Good to hear from Marilyn, "lurking" Hazel, Barb (I WILL write in response to your good offer of copy), Jean (I looked up the David MYE, which Susan pointed out at the 1715 Muster - his name is also included earlier on the Board of Trade List for 3 May 1709, at St Catherine's below London, as David MEY with wife. On both the 1715 and the 1720 lists there is an Apolonia Hebenhorne and by the time of the Religious Census in 1766, there is an Aeneas Heffernan in Rathkeale. My father also spoke of a Heavenor family in that area in his youth). I note too that another "lurker", Margot (Canada) is a Sparling. Two members of my ancestral brood (John & William Piper) were lurking witnesses at Sparling weddings in Adare in 1826. What a fine, cosy world we genealogy trackers inhabit. Granny McD doesn't mention the names she's searching for - perhaps I missed them earlier, Mary? I too am having fun. The comments from Chris on the official language merits some thought. German as the dominant language in the United States would have been very strange, indeed. I suppose, following a not-too-different - if sombre - thread (since painful to contemplate, but why shouldn't we mention these things?) my Palatine Grandfather fighting on the Somme and beyond in the First War could easily have been facing his distant kin at the Front in anger - brother George was killed by Turkish forces in Iraq in 1916. No rumours - I have the War Diary/Intelligence Report. But I mustn't spoil the mellow mood. You see, Admin? I am paying attention. Terry Pyper (Lincs UK)

Terry Pyper (Lincolnshire UK) <[email protected]> Terry, Many Thanx for the highly interesting TG docs. I'm from the midwestern USA, just so. of Chicago, where I spent most my 60 years. For me, these papers are a blueprint for how a staunch Irishman of all Irishman, Richard J. Daley, former mayor of Chicago learned how to run the city w/ a small # of trusted men from back rooms, & w/ an iron fist. Lord Southwell & the IP commissioners remind me of Daley & the Chicago City Council as they twisted arms, stole from the city coffers & funds due the citizens (Poor Palatines). God Bless, Walter (Joan) X. McElligott P.O.B. 161 Peotone, IL 60468-0161 (43 mi S. of Chicago) <[email protected]> ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

The following surnames are included in the Top Five Queries at http://www.germanmigration.com/queries/selected/current.asp CONRAD / COONROD * DUFF / TUFFT / THUFFT * HAEGER * KOCHENBERGER / COPASPARAH / KOAKQUARSPRAGUER / KOCHERSBERGER * MARTIN * MÜLLER * NICHOLSON * OTTERBACK * SCHEURER * SCHINDEL / SHINDLE * WETTER Note: Email Addresses have been added to the Top Five Queries for May 2000 thru June 2001. You may also wish to review Query of the Week, the list of Books and Other Helpful Sites. Diana Church http://www.germanmigration.com

Most interesting, Terry! In the Ash Grove records there are passing references to two John EMPEYS. We know about a John (likely the one you mentioned) EMPEY who immigrated to Ontario with or after other IP's from Ash Grove. (Thomas EMPEY, son of George, was one of them. He married a SWITZER.) The John EMPEY to whom I referred would be older than the one you dug up (pun intended <g>). So, the John EMPEY you found may be the son or nephew of "my" John. Would you please share the source with me? There are some things in LDS family records that allude to the Hunt/Empey marriage, but those sources were questionable... The mention of the marriage taking place in Ash Grove is more than coincidence. Ash Grove is so tiny as to hardly appear on maps... The John EMPEY about whom we know for sure was born somewhere in Ireland in 1723 and his younger brother, George, was born in 1737. They came together with their respective offspring (and maybe with a brother or half-brother) to the colonies in 1786. May I have your permission to share that info. with the EMPEY mailing list, please, Terry? Thanks. Susan At 01:25 PM 7/20/01 -0400, you wrote: >Susan > >What about John Empey, b. 14 Sep. 1769 in Eyrecourt, Galway, Ireland; spouse >Hannah Hunt (b. 9 Jan 1769, in Greenwich, Sussex, NJ), m. 5 Dec. 1793, in >Ashgrove, Albany NY. Both died in "Empey Hill", Richmond, Ontario - he abt. >1850, she 15 Mar. 1851? Or is my source defective? If it seems OK, there is >also an Elijah and a Francis, but they may just be residuals, living in >Strokestown, Roscommon in the 1800s. > >Food for thought. > >Terry > > >==== IRL-PALATINE Mailing List ==== >Oh, man! There is no planet, sun, or star could HOLD you, >If you but knew what you are! -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Hi Jean I was particularly interested to read your family history as it ties in with a bit of a "stone wall" that I have been hitting for a while. In the early part of the 19th century a whole bunch of IPs left the Killeheen/Kilfinnane area with no known record of their destination, amongst them some of my Family Group. Last year I discovered a family group called LEGEER (slightly different spelling)historically centred on Allegany Co, Maryland. Their origin was Ireland in the early 19th century and although I am 99% sure that this is my "missing group" I have been unable to make the final 1% connection. Their descendants still live in the area but I've also been unable to make contact with them. Some of the names you mention are also familiar to my researches as are others common to the IP list. As for English being the language of the US, I understand that the decision for English to become the official language was decided by only ONE vote over German. I'm reminded of the wry humour in the following definition - "The United States and Great Britain are two nations separated by a common language!" Language, of course, is probably one of the most interesting problems that cause us on the IP list some measure of bewilderment in our researches. Our 1709 ancestors were German speakers and landed in a country where the common language was Irish Gaelic, but the official language was English. Many of our IP ancestors would have been illiterate (I notice from the Rathkeale No 2 school register that there are only LeGear girls listed! The boys probably having more important things to do). Small wonder, then, that there are differences in spelling and records that confuse and confound us today!! Chris Le Gear >From: "A.J Corwin" <[email protected]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [IP] Great IP Group >Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 05:15:03 +0000 > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Hi, friends More here for your store, if you want it. But don't neglect the real purpose of the List, which is to build upon a superb relationship of distant kindred souls. You can stash and look this up at any time. The Net vibrates and needs constant attention. [#E: This is a further request for funds from a severely-stressed Royal budget. By this time the initial allocations from the Queen's bounty had trickled away and now, in addition to the very earnest begging letters from Accountant Leicester, Agent Hintz and the Paymaster Mr Smales, there was the Muster Master F. Sherigley (another name that conjures up images of Bleak House, or Oliver Twist) seeking financial satisfaction. The problems faced by the good Thos Southwell - benefactor of our poor Palatines in Rathkeale and environs - will be discussed next (bundle #F), together with a breakdown of his accounts as of June 1714. As you will see, there are just too many neatly-rounded totals to ring true.] ***START HERE*** "Irish Civil Miscellaneous Correspondence" No 6395 Carton 36 in Record Office Dublin PETITION of F. Sherigley in 1714 To their Excellencies the Lords Justices and General Governors of Ireland The humble Petition of Folliott Sherigley Sheweth That By their Excellencies the then Lords Justices' Order dated the 3rd of November 1710 yor Petitioner was commanded to take a Muster of the PALATINES in this City once every Month, and Return an exact account of their Age Sex and Circumstances, and all other necessary observations. Which he did till most of them went into the Country to settle under several Gentlemen, When By another Order from their Excellencies the late Lords Justices dated the 26 August 1712 your Petitioner was directed to appoint proper persons in the several counties where the said Palatines reside, to view and make their Returns of them, with the necessary observations, Which he has constantly done, and made true and exact Returns of the state of those people, to the Commissioners of the Palatines, from time to time. That since the weekly subsistence ceased, Her Majesty was pleased to allow to each Palatine Family Forty Shillings per annum, And as any of the said Families go off their allowances to be saved to the Crown, which your Petitioner takes care to have done pursuant to Her Majestie's Letter, and that no more money is issued, but for so many families as remain in the Kingdom THAT all the former Funds for the said people being long since expended, the said Commissioners could not pay your Petitioner his Salary, or allowance since the 25 March 1713, By which there is fifteen months due to your Petitioner to the 24th of June last, at £50 per annum, which comes to £62 10s besides his Clerk Books Paper &c. He therefore humbly prays your Excellencies will please to take the same into their consideration, and Order him to be paid his salary, and for his Clerk &c. out of such Fund as your Excellencies shall think fit. And your Petitioner will ever Pray &c. F. Sherigley ***END HERE*** [No comment seems necessary here. The 'beneficent' Queen Anne was to die 2 months later, in August 1714, so it is not difficult to imagine the anxieties at the highest level. Jobs were on the line and policies might change dramatically for the worse. Which Sovereign would follow? Would it be a Catholic? Oh, God. Not THAT.]

Hi, Margot, and Everybody - ><<I'd love to know where some of the others moved on to and settled. >Margot Jorgensen, Courtenay B. C. Canada>> That's a great idea. The migration patterns of our IP ancestors are most interesting and they may provide clues to the rest of us. Let's get this new thread kicked off! My own ancestors, the EMPEYS, emigrated from Ireland in June of 1786. (Years-long search for where in Ireland they lived has been fruitless to date...) The family, which consisted of two or maybe even three brothers and their respective families, had been converted by John WESLEY, and they were fervent Methodists. As was true of other Methodists, the EMPEYS traveled with Methodist friends, who all were eager for a new life in the Colonies. The families with whom they traveled that summer included but were not limited to the following: John BAKER, Sr., and Richard SUTLIFF. The party arrived in NYC on 21 Jul 1786, where they sought out Philip EMBURY and his group, all of whom they had known on the Emerald ISLE. Having arranged for the purchase of a large tract of land in upstate NY, the EMPEY family traveled north to Washington County, and to the hamlet of Ash Grove, where they settled with other IP families that had arrived previously. Our brick wall has been the Irish connection. Where in Ireland did the EMPEYS live? What were the women's names? We have some proof of George and John EMPEY, two of the brothers who came over, but what about wives? Anyway... that's the scoop on one IP family. Who else? Thanks again for your postings from the Groves transcripts, Terry. Susan Susan Laursen Willig [email protected] List Tender for: NY-WarWashSar; Sullivan Co., NH; Addison Co., VT; IRL-Palatine

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack & Mary" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 7:44 AM Subject: [IP] Welcome Hazel Hi Hazel... It is nice to see another name on the list, I to do more reading than adding, but have always been most comfortable when I do ask a question.. You have just joined one of the best. Have fun reading. I do and learn so much Just a old granny, having fun Mary Mcd ==== IRL-PALATINE Mailing List ==== You can't plough a field merely by turning it over in your mind.