Hi, Di - ><<(Did I once hear there was a connection between Palatine IL and Palatine >Bridge, in New York State?) I get muddled up, is this Irish Palatines or >New York Palatines? From Di Mitchell>> Don't know about a connection between the IL city and the NYS city, but the latter is definitely related to Palatines, although more German Palatine than our IPs. When the first migration wave came over to the New World, many Palatine families settled along the Hudson and Mohawk Rivers. Those were the practical places to set up housekeeping, as travel was accomplished largely on the waterways. Also, the Crown was delighted to have the Palatines establish settlements between the older more heavily populated areas such as Albany, and the wild frontier of western NY and on. The Indians were a constant threat out that way, and the Palatines were a convenient "buffer". Another threat in the eyes of the Crown were the French, who very much wanted to claim upstate NY. Later on in that century, the French and English had a major disagreement (aka the Seven Years' War or French & Indian War) over ownership of the area. ><<I LOVE this site, but it's beginning to confuse me!>> About what are you confused, Di? ><< I've been thinking for a long time that we need two lists - one for >straight genealogy, and one for general Irish Palatine history interest.>> This list is open to discussion of all things pertaining to IP history and genealogy and assorted tangential topics as well, so one list does the job very nicely. Anything IP (well, okay, within reason <g>) is welcome here. We're a right tolerant group... All the best, Susan SLWillig [email protected] List Tender for: NY-WarWashSar; Sullivan Co., NH; Addison Co., VT; IRL-Palatine and surnames lists; L.aursen, G.arfield, E.mpey

Greetings to you too, Chris, I have some Glaziers too. Henry Glazier married Anne Ruckle, daughter of George of Adare, 14 Aug 1827 in Adare. She is the sister of my g-g-g-grandfather, Michael. Henry Glazier and their offspring appear in the 1860 census for Allison twp, Lapeer Co., Michigan thus: Henry Glazier, 60, farmer, b. Ireland Elna, 25, b. Ireland Catharine, 18, b. Ireland Sarah, 15, b. Ireland George Glazier 26, farmer, b. Ireland John, 24, farmer, b. Ireland Adam, 20, farmer, b. Ireland James E., 5, b. Canada By 1870 it seems that Henry had died and his sons were enumerated in Burnside twp.: Glasier, Adam, 32, farmer, b. Ireland Mary, 30, b. Ireland Henry, 4, b. Michigan David, 2, b. Michigan Glasier, George, 36, farmer, b. Ireland Ursula(?), 30, b. Canada John, 34, works on farm, b. Ireland James E. 15, b. Canada Temple, Caroline, 18, domestic servant, b. Canada We know from family letters of the time that there was another son, Henry, who settled in Missouri. It doesn't seem to me that the John in these records is your ancestor since he remained in Michigan, apparently unmarried (or the widowed father of James E.) in 1870. However, he could well be a first cousin of your John. By the way, in 1870 there was also Anna Glazier, 80 years old, b. England. She was living in Ann Arbor, Michigan with William Taylor, 43, his wife, Jane, 40, their five children and two farm hands. If any of this rings bells with you I'd like to know.......Karen Opgenorth

Hello I too was having trouble opening this particular record but, thanks to Terry, I now have it in Word. He tells me this is available because of the work put in by Ken and Janice and I can only say a big thank you to them for that. It has opened up another set of posers - as FH often does - I see another family name lurking in there besides Cornelius, now I have to go chasing them as well (Bowen) In the meantime, if anyone DOES need any look-ups in the Midlands pse let me know. Someone asked recently if we could greet newcomers with a 'HI' to let them know we're here, but I would love to see everyone come in with where (in the world )they are - me, I'm in the Cotswolds, UK. Something tells me Terry is in Lincolnshire, anywhere near the Boston stump Terry? Sorry this is a long one, but something else is puzzling me. I can understand the attraction of emigrating to US but why would anyone from Ireland want to go to Scotland? I love the country, don't get me wrong, but what was the attraction, it couldn't surely have been work in those days? The poverty I have been reading of (and have heard about first hand from Scottish Grannys) was dreadful, and I wondered if anyone knew what could have sent them over the water to Scotland? Hazel

Good morning List: I have been enjoying your humorous banter for some time now. A really interesting & informative list. The reunion is a marvelous idea, but too far off for me. I can dream can't I? At the rate you folks work, I bet you could move it up a few years. I think I may qualify as an IP, having three, & maybe more g. g. gr' parents from the Mohawk Valley, who came to Canada as Loyalists. Terry thanks for your interpretations of Liz's m'script. Another hot day in Ontario. Norma ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 11:02 AM Subject: [IP] A Sw*tzer in my tree

--0-1931683259-998475771=:77134 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Having been on the Back to the Heartland - Irish Palatine Homecoming - and the wonderful Back To The Ancestral Homeland to the Palatinate in Germany and the several other re-Unions of Palatines in Ireland in which Ken McDonald was a leading light, I am sure Austin Bovenizer, Chairman of The Irish Palatine Association and Committee would agree he is the best experienced person to organise any future trips or re-Unions. P/S/ Do you all subscribe to the Irish Palatine Association Membership (£12 a year) and receive the interesting Irish Palatine Association Journal? NO! Shame on you! Berta. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie --0-1931683259-998475771=:77134--

Hello Friends ***START HERE*** The Switzer family being, to all intents, the most eminent of the Palatine families to settle in Limerick (with an abundance of documentation, more than obvious wealth and what the French call 'piston' - i.e. contacts), I have been swanning along in the mistaken belief that my family was untainted with such seigneurial froth. Middle-name smug, me. Unpalatinely. Recently, however, a very kind Lyn Vincent from down-under (N.S. Wales) did me some look-ups in Griffith's Valuation and amongst the finds was a "Rola Piper" with a holding in Tuogh, Adare. Now, whilst I accept that some pretty scatty forenames were preferred by our ancestors (Absalom, Aeneas and such - God, I've probably offended somebody else now), Rola was clearly not the short version of Savonarola (a novel written by Benjamin Disraeli - the Harold Robbins of the 19th C.). So - misprint? A familysearch hit brought me Joseph Piper m. Rhoda Switzer in Adare on 12 Oct 1830. Since I can find nothing on his birth or death, nor any apparent issue, I was led to assume that G (to the power 3) Uncle Joe died and his widow took over the property. Has anyone anything on Joseph - he just might be a nephew of my GGF Richard Piper, you see? ***END HERE*** Right, that's the business side over - just to show I'm serious. Now to the usual daily parcel of drivel. (Sorry, Susan: perhaps when Liz gets our Pally site up and running, we could have a Small-Ads tab for back-office trivia such as mine). Anyway, we're all on first-name terms as of birthright and gossip does foster closer affinities. I'm told. Hazel - I AM the Boston Stump. The world's software clearing-house. The download catchment area for the Western hemisphere. WAS in Lincolnshire, Hazel. Nuff said, I think. Liz - about how Java works. You get some beans and mash them up (look, this boy's been around, OK), then you get a pot....do I have to spell it out for a fellow night-owl? Jacqui (when you get up): I have a bone to pick. I did not FIB. Did not. I said the CORNEIL file was 62 pages, you claimed I'd said 64, although it was actually 78. Got news for you, sister. I first read it in February, then again yesterday morning. You got there later - get my drift? You may recall that the Palatines were very devoted to the "federbett" culture; when they were not ploughing, they were propagating. Since my look-up and your download, the FAMILY had GROWN. OK? Anyway, we'll talk more later - I'm in Bombay now on a stopover. The flight to Talbot has been delayed, but the tea here is first-class and will do for the time being. (The historian Farrar observed in his History of Limerick (1780) that the Palatines 'sleep between two beds' - I think he was trying to tell us something.) On another tack: I like to test the temperature of our Listers from time to time and, frankly, I am a little concerned about good ol' Walt's 'rellies' and Carole's 'ruckles'. Have they seen someone about this, do you think? Are they up to the rigours of a reunion? Keep an eye peeled, friends. Now we've got all of these fine people back to the fireside (even spilling out to the kitchen - did Admin. say over 150 subscribers now?), we have to keep them here. Lost Jacqui, though, I fear. Ho-hum. Big mouth. Alberta, hello. I do have some rather more charitable things to say about the superb IPA, but I have some 'liberation' chores to deal with for the moment and will return to my Java-stained keyboard a bit later this (British) evening. Do stay. I will have a more sober face then. Switzer - hna. Oh, god. Terry (now boarding for Victoria). PS When I get back I propose to pop round to my good friend Cyndi's for a prowl. This Mailing List is glorious fun. And we've got pull now. Hi, hunkess - Going Live, I presume...we're all with you. And hi the benevolent Chairman in Arizona (or does ChairMAN rank with 'colonies' in the PC department?) Bye bye

If this comes through twice I apologies to all, sent out the first one via the web site and don't think that will be accepted as it is not me. (Well is, but it's the secret identity for getting out of making cups of tea) Terry and all our friends, The kettle is always on, and the swag is available to put out the back paddock under the gums!! > [Jacqui: gi'the'kittle on, mate. You've no idea what happened to me last > night when you were safely hunkered down in that Victorian bed (23.57). Had a > stalker. One of the nicest people you could wish to meet. But I was afraid to > get up this morning. I checked the street for news teams from ABC and > cancelled my subscription to Time magazine (they were sure to pan me). > Did you give the stalker a cuppa? Someone from the list found you!! (LOL) You did tell a fib, the CORNEILLE info is 72 pages not 64. Jacqui

> Another thought. You seemed a bit piqued by the name SMITH being in your > tree. There is, of course, a strong possibility that this too is of Palatine > origin. There were stacks of them queuing for tickets in Rotterdam in 1709 > (Schmidt, Smit, etc). No, I wouldn't say piqued, just bleary eyed from trying to pick up that tiny clue that a SMITH may be mine. > As you will see, your Corneils pre-date the famous '09 emigration, since they > were already tending their plots in Killeheen 30 years before our laggards > turned up. This gives weight to the widely-held belief that CORNEIL was of > Huguenot extraction. From oral family history, which is oh so frustrating, good ol' John Corneille SMITH, told the story that the family was Huguenot and went first to Germany then to Ireland, becoming Palatines in the process. So for him to say that, the SMITH connection may well be Palatine as well. I just haven't tied that in yet!!!! BUT then again he was in local Government, so who would believe him!!! Thanks so much for the thoughts, they keep the brain ticking over into new lines. Also keep up the wonderful mails. Cheers Jacqui

Terry, Thankyou for the site, I will have a look ASAP. It will be terrible not to have huge gaps in the tree. (vbg) I will just have to look with my eyes shut so that I can still have something to do!!!! You are right, it was 23.57 Aussie time when your mail came in. Do you have the old International clocks stuck on the wall. Afraid I'd have to go surfing on the dam and not Bondi, I live in Central Victoria. Near a tiny town called Talbot. If you find that on a map I'd be surprised. (LOL) Many thanks again for the site, I don't get much time to "surf" the net. I keep falling off my chair while laughing reading your mails!! Cheers Jacqui

Hi, let me introduce myself. Yes, I admit I've been a "lurker" for about a week! I'm researching my g-g-grandparents, John GLAZIER and Ann BOVANIZER (BOVENIZER). Since the family Bible has turned up missing since my grandmother died, all I have for them is their wedding date, 25 Sept. 1860. Family history says they came from Ireland; this is backed up by census records in Orleans County, New York, where they eventually settled. Their first child (my g-grandfather) was born in US in 1868. A year ago, I'd never heard of Irish Palatines; now I might be descended from them. Anyways, I've enjoyed the conversation on this list so far! Chris

Confession . . It's all my fault. In my web design innocence, I submitted the School data for the IPA website as an Excel spreadsheet and appear not to have sized it correctly to get it to appear correctly on the screen. As Susan suggests, you can save the file, and thereafter play with it, but you will need MS Excel for this. Alternatively, you should be able to print it, but will probably need to select printing as landscape, rather than portrait. I have asked for a re-sized version to go on the website, but the site developer has not yet found time. My apologies. Ken McDonald > Hello to all.... Need some advise....I am having trouble opening Irl.Pal. ...Rathkeale #2 School site. ..when I try and open in note pad.. will not work.. am confused as to how I should be downloading page on desk top.Unable to read any information. Help will be appreciated. > Thank-you > Mary... (searching the Miller line) > > > ==== IRL-PALATINE Mailing List ==== > The greatest influence in your life, stronger even than your will power, > Is your environment. Change that, if necessary. Paramahansa Yogananda >

><<P/S/ Do you all subscribe to the Irish Palatine Association Membership >(£12 a year) and receive the interesting Irish Palatine Association >Journal? NO! Shame on you! Berta.>> Hello, Berta - Similar to the experience mentioned by another subscriber, I, too, joined the Assn. A brief acknowledgement of my check and letter of interest/intent was sent to me some time later along with a copy of the journal which was 2+ years old at that time. Since that communication there has been nary a word. Said membership has been a disappointment. Susan

Hi Mary Some time back Ken kindly sent me the R/k No 2 school registers in MS Word format - because, as you may know - my fingers turn into flapjacks at the keyboard. I am a lo-tech relic. If you're not afraid of opening attachments from friends, I will email you the file, which will also open in Notepad, I think. I only have the alphabetical name order version. The one in chronological date order is still drifting out there in cybernimity - or maybe it has landed in someone else's computer. I can work miracles that outshine any biblical feat. Call me off-list - I take up too much space. Terry PS It is 35 delicious pages long and presents a fine study of the changing nature of the West Limerick Palatine community in its dying years. It also gives you information that spans the gap between census information and b-m-d events. If you know anyone there, you and I are even closer family than could be imagined.

Connie, I'm sorry for the way my message came out. I didn't say I didn't care about the Dulmages...I said I didn't know much about the Dulmages...But then again, I probably have a lot of information about the Dulmages in the books that I have...so I apologize for the way my message came across...I will write you at the email address you gave me to discuss the Ruckles and Dulmages further.... Margrath had three known brothers, Philip, Sebastian and Paul... . I have a few Dulmages on my family tree...One of Sebastian's daughters, Ann, also married a Dulmage---Philip Dulmage.. "The Embury Family History and Partial Genealogy", by Edith Berry Embury doesn't have much on The Embury Sister, Mrs. Jacob Dulmage, Sr. or Jr. The following is written about The Embury Sister pages 50 & 51 quote: "No attempt has been made in this work to delineate the Dulmages and separate the Embury-Dulmage descendants. The Dulmages are numerous and scattered and would require a single-minded project by an interested descendant. The following are a few notes gathered mainly from Methodist works and presented here for anyone wishing to use them. We believe that both Jacob Dulmage Sr. and Jr. came with the four Embury brothers from Ireland in 1760. Both father and son signed the 1763 petition for land which states the petitioners had been in America for 2 1/2 years. The signatures are written "Dulmidge." The Embury sister's name may have been Margaret. In "Pioneer Life on the Bay of Quinte" we find this: "Amy Allison, a descendant (of Margaret Dulmage) says her grandmother suggested she be called Barbara Heck after their celebrated relative." Whether the grandmother referred to was actually the sister of the Emburys or a descendant of that sister is not clear. Atkinson and Sanderson refer to the sister as Mrs. Dulmage, an indication that neither author discovered her given name. From them we learn that Mrs. Dulmage died during the winter of 1809-10, "after sending messages to all her absent children." One daughter, Ann Dulmage, married the Rev. Samuel Coate, Methodist minister, and they were known as "the handsome couple." Bishop Asbury, in his Journal, August 7, 1812, wrote: "The wife of our brother, Samuel Coate, had a daughter born to her, whom I baptized, naming her Sophie." Samuel Coate was then preaching in Baltimore, Md. Sanderson, p. 52, records" "Samuel Cochran, son of Samuel and Ann Coate, born in Edwardsburgh, Jan. 29, 1808, and baptized by the Rev. Joseph Sawyer, March 13, 1808." And on p. 60: "It was in one of these Saturday night prayer meetings (Methodist) that Mrs. Coate in her girlhood was converted; and in the old circuit register are recorded the births and baptisms of all the nine children." One is prompted to ask: whose nine children? Coates children, or Ann's brothers and sisters? The circuit register referred to may be for Oswegotchie, later divided into Augusta and Cornwall. Samuel Coate's flowing oratory was said to have been quite an innovation in the early settlements. He resigned the ministry about 1810, visited England for a time and died later after surgery. Ann Dulmage Coate afterward married a Mr. McLean. A brother of Ann Dulmage married a Sarah---------?, mentioned in Atkinson p. 69. Some of the Dulmages settled at Augusta and Edwardsburgh. Others, with the Switzers, Masons, and "other German-Irish Methodists settled in the fertile region to the west" of Toronto. There were Coates at Trafalgar." There is a whole lot of information out there on your family lines just waiting to be discovered and a whole lot of information that is available that people are willing to share with you.. Welcome to the group, if you want to email me directly my address is: [email protected] Carole

Dear List, My Palatine line is through Peter Sparling and his wife Margaret Fissell who migrated to Nova Scotia at the end of the American Revolution ( with the Loyalists) going first to Port Roseway ( Shelburne) and later moving on to North Sydney Cape Breton Nova Scotia. According to Eula Lapp, they came on the "Pery" to New York in 1760. Peter's parents were George Sparling and Dora Shier and his grandparent possibly Stuffle von Sperling. I know that Fissell (Fitzelle), Shier ( Shire, Schyer) and Sparling are all Palatine names from the Limerick area of Ireland. I do not yet know the parents,etc. of Margaret Fissell or Dora Shier. These are my interests. Thanks. Karen

Thank you very much for your advise, but I guess I should have added a bit more. I click onto the first two icons re the student page...but nothing comes up, if I try to open it goes to note pad, but there is just the hex language.. I can not open it.. I can get the picture of school but the two above will not appear. Thanks again for your help. cheers Mary

The Palatines that we are interested in (generally) were the five groups that came out in 1709, brought by the British Government and given British citizenship. These people were intended for New York and North Carolina. It was for political/economic reasons that some of them were diverted to Ireland. The rest went on to their original intended destinations in the main. However, over the next few decades Palatines continued to leave the area and make their own way to America. Most of them not enjoying the sponsorship of the Government as "our" original group did and they suffered greatly with hundreds, perhaps thousands, never reaching their destinations. They settled all over the US but mostly in the Mid West. Many of the Pennsylvania "Dutch" were from the Palatine (Dutch = Deutsch). Maryland, Illinois and Michigan were other favoured settling points. Here endeth the lesson. Chris _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

reposting my surnames BALL / PYPHER,PIPHER William Ball married Mary Pypher/Pipher about 1812. I thought I noticed someone on the list researching same surnames awhile ago Brenda

Terry, thanks for the pointer to the Corneil Family Record Site. I believe I have found where my Armstrong ancestor and his brother married into that family through two daughters who married Switzer and Sparling, and have now emailed the site offering further information on descendents. This list is incredibly helpful as well as truly exciting !! All the interconnections are amazing. Margot Courtenay B. C. Canada

PALATINE, ILLINOIS Walter, how did PALATINE, the town near Chicago, get it's name? I seem to have heard of a few Irish Palatine keenies who live around that fascinating City. Is there a connection? (Did I once hear there was a connection between Palatine IL and Palatine Bridge, in New York State?) I get muddled up, is this Irish Palatines or New York Palatines? From Di Mitchell in Warrington, England - in the County Palatine of Chester (bet that fools y'all - but it's true!!)* GENEALOGY Jacob Shier Sr, b. 1767, i. 12 Feb 1827 and his wife Elizabeth lived at Rineroe, near Adare. His son Jacob William b. 11.8.1806 was my grandmother's grandfather. And Jacob Sr's daughter Rebecca b. c. 1787 was, I believe, my grandfather's grandmother. But my grandfather's mother was a LE GEAR, and my mother was a BARKMAN. She left Ireland about 1920. Confused? So am I sometimes! And - to add to the confusion - there were several men in Co. Limerick called Jacob Shier around the year 1800. My "Jacobs" (father and son) stayed in Ireland - they didn't emigrate. Any relatives out there? If anyone finds any info on IRISH Barkman's who left Ireland before 1880 PLEEEEEEEEEASE let me know. (I've seen Hank Jones book and I know my relatives in New Zealand but there must be more! There are lots of Barkman's in N. America who are NOT Irish Palatine) FRIENDLY CHAT (NO GENEALOGY HEREON - DELETE IF YOU WISH) I LOVE this site, but it's beginning to confuse me! I've been thinking for a long time that we need two lists - one for straight genealogy, and one for general Irish Palatine history interest. I promise I'd EAGERLY join both of them. What do you think? Cindi - so glad you made it to Lincolnshire - it was where I was born (in the City of Lincoln). I see you visited Grantham. Lovely, but if you come again, do see Lincoln. I'll meet you there. To friends of Terry Pyper (who think's he can't be found). I've been there already - tough luck folks! Terry makes great coffee, and I hope he'll brew up for all of us while we're sailing down the Rhine in a raft. I'm selling location maps for Lincolnshire at $100 a go, if you're interested. (Only kidding, Terry.) ** Some Counties in England do indeed hold the title "County Palatine", but it's nothing directly connected with our 1709ers - it relates to powers these counties had in lieu of the monarch in medieval times, long before 1709. The name PALATINE originally comes from the "Palatine Hill" - one of the 7 hills of Rome. Walter - I love Lake Michigan, my daughter learned to swim there (at South Haven). But I wouldn't go far out on it in a small boat any more than I'd go out on the Rhine at Speyer or thereabouts (in a small boat). The Rhine there is a beautiful but BIG FIERCE river. I wonder if our 1709 travellers really called themselves "Palatines", or if it was a generic label stuck on them? It must have been a bit difficult for them to explain their origins. Who would have understood, "Ich bin Abraham Berghmann und Ich komme aus Iggelheim in der nahe von Mannheim ................... ". I suspect that in Rotterdam and London they were all labelled "Palatines", and it became easier to accept the name in general than argue about it? Whilst we all get keen about meeting up I can't help thinking of our friends in AUSTRALIA and NEW ZEALAND. I hope that, by 2009, we have Palatine groups the world over - all with links to Rathkeale (and - don't forget WEXFORD!) - and that we all have the best parties possible since we were all together in 1709. ----- Original Message ----- From: Walter X McElligott <[email protected]> > IP Buddies, > > If you think it's bad getting weird looks (via email?) when "PALATINE" > comes up, think how I feel when somebody responds to local research > saying, "Oh sure that's just north of Chicago." > > Or, even worse, "Your rellies came down Lake Michigan in wooden boats, > when?" > > Walt > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > ==== IRL-PALATINE Mailing List ==== > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the following: > [email protected] > Put either the word, subscribe, or unsubscribe in the subject line and body of the message. > >