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Ken, I'll keep you updated on anything I uncover with regard to the 1709 route! Whilst I agree with you that the 300th anniversary ought to be marked I would suggest that the proposed event retracing the steps of our ancestors across Europe, whilst laudable, might well be restrictive due to the time and travelling distances inviolved for many people. Perhaps some sort of local event to Rathkeale ought to be considered over a period of say, a few weeks, that might well attract visits from IPs from all over the world. The Palatine museum would prove an excellent focal point!! What do others think.....would this sort of thing prove of interest???? Chris >From: "Ken McDonald" <Teskey@btinternet.com> >Reply-To: IRL-PALATINE-L@rootsweb.com >To: IRL-PALATINE-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [IP] London - Dublin in 1709!! >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 10:27:08 -0000 > >Chris, > >An idea that's at a very early embryo stage, but which has generated >plenty of interest, is an Irish Palatine Association event in 2009 >following the route of our ancestors from the Pfalz to Ireland. > >If you do ever find an answer to the London - Chester question it could >be useful in 2009. > >Ken McDonald >England >Teskey@BTinternet.com >Do check out www.teskey.org and www.irishpalatines.org > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Christopher Le Gear" <chrislegear@hotmail.com> >To: <IRL-PALATINE-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 2:13 PM >Subject: [IP] London - Dublin in 1709!! > > >Dear All > >In 1709 our forefathers travelled from London to Chester where they took >ship for Dublin. Does anyone know the route they took through England >to >get to Chester??? > >Chris > >_________________________________________________________________ >Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone >http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile > > >==== IRL-PALATINE Mailing List ==== >List Administrator: >Susan Laursen Willig >IRL-PALATINE-admin@rootsweb.com > > > >==== IRL-PALATINE Mailing List ==== >My folks didn't come over on the Mayflower, but >they were there to meet the boat. Will Rogers > _________________________________________________________________ Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband

Judy, I couldn't follow your Lawrence family very well as I have some of the people under different parents. Plus some of the same names but different dates etc. In short, I'm confused. I have a George Lawrence s/o ? wed Mary ? with a daughter born in Rathkeale, Limerick, Ireland named Catherine born Feb 1769. Another one with no parents listed is Abraham Lawrence wed Elizabeth ? with children all born in Rath. Lim. Ireland named Elizabeth Jul 1755, John Nov 1756, Barclay Apr 1759, Edward Jan 1762. Another with no parents names was Nicholas Lawrence wed Catherine with son born in Rath. Lim. Ireland named Philip born Dec 1745. Another Nicholas Lawrence, no parents wed Mary Barbara and their children listed as Aneene Aug 1743, John Aug 1747, Peter Mar 1749, Mary Aug 1751 so as you see names fit but dates are too far out. One more that is close to yours is John Lawrence no parents named wed Catherine ? and their children all born in Rath. Lim. Ireland named Philip Apr 1743, Eve Nov 1744, Nicholas Dec 1749, George Jul 1747, John Feb 1753, Catherine Oct 1755, Adam Feb 1759. Can you clear any of this up or make sense of it???? ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Lyn <judylyn@gosympatico.ca> To: <IRL-PALATINE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 7:39 AM Subject: Re: [IP] Lawrence page done > > Just to let you all know, I have finished the Lawrence page in the web site I am doing. > > http://www.geocities.com/keepsakebook > > click on Lawrence > > If anyone has any more to add to the little I have, I welcome any input into these pages. > > and if any one has the Mick heritage, please let me know, as I do not have that family in my records. > thanks. > Judy > > > ==== IRL-PALATINE Mailing List ==== > Oh, man! There is no planet, sun, or star could HOLD you, > If you but knew what you are! -- Ralph Waldo Emerson > >

Just to let you all know, I have finished the Lawrence page in the web site I am doing. http://www.geocities.com/keepsakebook click on Lawrence If anyone has any more to add to the little I have, I welcome any input into these pages. and if any one has the Mick heritage, please let me know, as I do not have that family in my records. thanks. Judy

Thank you, Terry. Chris >From: "Terry" <tajackson@freenet.co.uk> >Reply-To: IRL-PALATINE-L@rootsweb.com >To: IRL-PALATINE-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [IP] London - Dublin in 1709!! >Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:10:28 +0100 > >Not specifically but you could make an educated guess if you had an old >map. >Here are some old map sites: >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~genmaps >http://www.old-maps.co.uk/ >http://www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/ >http://www.rallymap.demon.co.uk/ >http://med441.bham.ac.uk/maps/index.html >http://www.rsl.ox.ac.uk/nnj/maproom.htm >I hope at least one of these is of assistance to you. >Terry Jackson in Oxfordshire >Researching: >Lancs - SMITH, MCDONNELL, HAYES >Ches.- MCDONNELL, GARNER, HOOLEY >Staffs.- GARNER >Surrey - WILKINSON, CHANDLER, FRY, PARRATT, PUNTER, LITTLE, >ARNOLD, BINFIELD >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Christopher Le Gear" <chrislegear@hotmail.com> >To: <IRL-PALATINE-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 3:13 PM >Subject: [IP] London - Dublin in 1709!! > > > > Dear All > > > > In 1709 our forefathers travelled from London to Chester where they took > > ship for Dublin. Does anyone know the route they took through England >to > > get to Chester??? > > > > Chris > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone >http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile > > > > > > ==== IRL-PALATINE Mailing List ==== > > List Administrator: > > Susan Laursen Willig > > IRL-PALATINE-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > >==== IRL-PALATINE Mailing List ==== >Be the best you can be right where you are. > _________________________________________________________________ Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband

Watling Street? Just a thought. This originally Roman road, later to become the A5, was an important route I believe. Further along, perhaps the route of what's now the A51 from the Lichfield area to Chester? Sorry, I'm only guessing. CHESTER - I live not far from there, and have tried with limited success to find out about its port around 1709. Although Chester was considered a very important English 'gateway' to Ireland and North Wales, the river Dee was already silting up then. A weir had been built across the Dee at Chester, just upstream of the port, quite some time before. This wall across the river impounded it upstream, allowing a head of water to provide power for a mill. But this meant that the tides which raced up the river twice daily were (and still are) brought to an abrupt halt at the weir. They no longer had the power to scour out the river bed downstream of the weir. The river silted up and became shallow. The seagoing vessels had great difficulty getting upstream all the way to Chester. Our forefathers were probably taken a few miles downstream on the River Dee, and boarded their boats at one of the smaller places there. Even before 1709, an area of land in the loop of the river at Chester dried out and became known as the "Roodee". Horseracing there had made Chester a fashionable venue for those with disposable income by 1709. I doubt our forebears had cash spare for that! The annual races still run today. There are great archives available through Chester Museum, and I'll bet they contain information about the Palatines passing through the City - I just - well - haven't found the time to go searching. Has anybody else? We had "Turnpikes" - toll roads - in those days in England. The term hasn't been used here in England for a long time, but survives in the U.S (e.g. New Jersey Turnpike). Our forefathers would have seen the famous St Paul's Cathedral being built whilst they were in London, where much reconstruction was still taking place after the Great Fire in 1666. They'll have heard all about the Plague there in 1665 but that will have been old news to them. The plague had struck far and wide through Europe, including the Palatinate. For those of you (most of you) who don't live in England - the Dee Estuary is just a little south of the Mersey Estuary on the northwest coast of England. Go on - get out your atlases and have a look!. Many of us have relatives who sailed out of Liverpool on the Mersey (which gained promenance as Chester declined) on their way to new lands. So both places should be of interest to you. (I sailed from Liverpool myself in 1968, to Montreal. Terrific country. Worked hard. Came back after 4 years - but heck - Canada don't be offended - maybe I did you a favour!). After many years of hard times and NO ocean-going passenger traffic, the Port of Liverpool is reviving! It's planned that cruiseliners will be sailing from there before too long. If you ever have a chance to visit Liverpool, go to its Maritime Museum, which records emigrant history, with a good reconstruction of the living quarters below deck (and I mean BEFORE the era of the 'Titanic' movie). If you disagree with any of my history "ramblings" please do write and say so - I'm just a learner myself. IF some of us manage to 'reconstruct' parts of the journey in 2009, we could sail from Liverpool to Dublin quite easily. And we COULD I'm sure follow a lot of the original England & Irish route without having to zip down motorways at 70 mph. On the whole, the motorways don't follow the old routes. And thinking of Ireland, I've found that through Rathkeale to Courtmatrix and east of Adare it's quite a pleasure to walk the old roads now, because new bypasses have taken the traffic away from them. You know, the possibilities for commemorations in 2009, large or small, at home or abroad, are endless !! Everybody equally important, whoever or wherever they are. Let's get planning and all keep in touch! Sorry I've been out of touch for a while again myself. Have had awful computer problems and lost my inbox. (Could anything worse happen to a lady?) If anybody has written to me in the last couple of months, I'm sorry it's been wiped out. Could you write again? To all my 'Palatine' friends (and you all are) - my heartiest greetings. End of waffle. Regards Di Mitchell (Descended from Barkman, Shier, Shire, Legear etc etc) ----- Original Message ----- From: Christopher Le Gear <chrislegear@hotmail.com> To: <IRL-PALATINE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 2:13 PM Subject: [IP] London - Dublin in 1709!! > Dear All > > In 1709 our forefathers travelled from London to Chester where they took > ship for Dublin. Does anyone know the route they took through England to > get to Chester??? > > Chris > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile > > > ==== IRL-PALATINE Mailing List ==== > List Administrator: > Susan Laursen Willig > IRL-PALATINE-admin@rootsweb.com > >

Chris, An idea that's at a very early embryo stage, but which has generated plenty of interest, is an Irish Palatine Association event in 2009 following the route of our ancestors from the Pfalz to Ireland. If you do ever find an answer to the London - Chester question it could be useful in 2009. Ken McDonald England Teskey@BTinternet.com Do check out www.teskey.org and www.irishpalatines.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Le Gear" <chrislegear@hotmail.com> To: <IRL-PALATINE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 2:13 PM Subject: [IP] London - Dublin in 1709!! Dear All In 1709 our forefathers travelled from London to Chester where they took ship for Dublin. Does anyone know the route they took through England to get to Chester??? Chris _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ==== IRL-PALATINE Mailing List ==== List Administrator: Susan Laursen Willig IRL-PALATINE-admin@rootsweb.com

Not specifically but you could make an educated guess if you had an old map. Here are some old map sites: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~genmaps http://www.old-maps.co.uk/ http://www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/ http://www.rallymap.demon.co.uk/ http://med441.bham.ac.uk/maps/index.html http://www.rsl.ox.ac.uk/nnj/maproom.htm I hope at least one of these is of assistance to you. Terry Jackson in Oxfordshire Researching: Lancs - SMITH, MCDONNELL, HAYES Ches.- MCDONNELL, GARNER, HOOLEY Staffs.- GARNER Surrey - WILKINSON, CHANDLER, FRY, PARRATT, PUNTER, LITTLE, ARNOLD, BINFIELD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Le Gear" <chrislegear@hotmail.com> To: <IRL-PALATINE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 3:13 PM Subject: [IP] London - Dublin in 1709!! > Dear All > > In 1709 our forefathers travelled from London to Chester where they took > ship for Dublin. Does anyone know the route they took through England to > get to Chester??? > > Chris > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile > > > ==== IRL-PALATINE Mailing List ==== > List Administrator: > Susan Laursen Willig > IRL-PALATINE-admin@rootsweb.com > >

Chris, Maps of England in the 18th century are fairly well documented - any library in a large city should be able to produce some for you. If memory serves me right there is a set of maps known as the "Britannia Depicta" dating from around then that covers most of the UK. (A Google Search just confirmed this for me and will give you lots of hits to investigate!) Many of the roads in England run along the same routes that the Romans built them on (the first real road-builders - rather than rut makers). An example is the A5 from London to Holyhead - you can still see the remains of at least one old Roman bridge along its route. Since Chester was a major Roman fort - and later a strategic walled city - and London of course is London - you can bet that the Palatines took the main road between the two. I suppose you could call it an Italian connection! Patrick Millar (Researching Millers!) P.S. Have been dormant on the list for some time, have just found some time to do a little extra genealogy for a few weeks though. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Le Gear" <chrislegear@hotmail.com> To: <IRL-PALATINE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 10:13 AM Subject: [IP] London - Dublin in 1709!! > Dear All > > In 1709 our forefathers travelled from London to Chester where they took > ship for Dublin. Does anyone know the route they took through England to > get to Chester??? > > Chris > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile > > ______________________________

Looking for information about John Miller son of Robert Miller and Mary (maiden name unknown) born in Ireland married firstly to Louisa Doupe, and secondly to Matilda Shier, John and Matilda's daughter Elizabeth was my grandmother. Dale Edmonstone _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

Just a note Mary Was it Catherine Poff you ment or Poll? Kimberly ----- Original Message ----- From: <Switzerdolmage@aol.com> To: <IRL-PALATINE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [IP] Poff and Mick Families > This isn't much Kimberley, but it might help > > Catherine Poll married William Young. Their son William was married 29 Jun > 1869 in Renfrew County when of Stafford Township, Renfrew County, 26 years, > born Stafford Township, to Ann Jane Plummer, 25 years of Wilberforce Township, > Renfrew County, born Ireland, daughter of Richard Plummer and Elizabeth > Jackson. > > From Renfrew County Marriage Register > > Good luck > > Mary > > > ==== IRL-PALATINE Mailing List ==== > Try to do little things in an extraordinary way. > >

Mary, I am curious as to where this William Young was from, the William that married Catherine Poll. I am researching the Young's from Kilcooley Tipperary, and thus far managed to connect 3 maybe 4 so far as brothers that came to Canada between 1829 and 1830. Do you have any other information on Young's?? Sharon (Young) Smith >From: Switzerdolmage@aol.com >Reply-To: IRL-PALATINE-L@rootsweb.com >To: IRL-PALATINE-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [IP] Poff and Mick Families >Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:16:38 EDT > >This isn't much Kimberley, but it might help > >Catherine Poll married William Young. Their son William was married 29 Jun >1869 in Renfrew County when of Stafford Township, Renfrew County, 26 years, >born Stafford Township, to Ann Jane Plummer, 25 years of Wilberforce >Township, >Renfrew County, born Ireland, daughter of Richard Plummer and Elizabeth >Jackson. > >From Renfrew County Marriage Register > >Good luck > >Mary > > >==== IRL-PALATINE Mailing List ==== >Try to do little things in an extraordinary way. > _________________________________________________________________ Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/byoa

Thank you Mary for this information, Every little bit helps Regards Kimberly ----- Original Message ----- From: <Switzerdolmage@aol.com> To: <IRL-PALATINE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [IP] Poff and Mick Families > This isn't much Kimberley, but it might help > > Catherine Poll married William Young. Their son William was married 29 Jun > 1869 in Renfrew County when of Stafford Township, Renfrew County, 26 years, > born Stafford Township, to Ann Jane Plummer, 25 years of Wilberforce Township, > Renfrew County, born Ireland, daughter of Richard Plummer and Elizabeth > Jackson. > > From Renfrew County Marriage Register > > Good luck > > Mary > > > ==== IRL-PALATINE Mailing List ==== > Try to do little things in an extraordinary way. > >

This isn't much Kimberley, but it might help Catherine Poll married William Young. Their son William was married 29 Jun 1869 in Renfrew County when of Stafford Township, Renfrew County, 26 years, born Stafford Township, to Ann Jane Plummer, 25 years of Wilberforce Township, Renfrew County, born Ireland, daughter of Richard Plummer and Elizabeth Jackson. From Renfrew County Marriage Register Good luck Mary

Dear All In 1709 our forefathers travelled from London to Chester where they took ship for Dublin. Does anyone know the route they took through England to get to Chester??? Chris _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile

Looking for information on this family. Sarah MICK was born about 1784 in Ireland married John POFF from Tarlee Ireland. He was born about 1775 this family had 10 children born in Ireland. The family emmigrated to Canada about 1830 and lived mainly in Renfrew Canada. Any information that can be offered on this family would be great Thank you Kimberly

Hi Chris! Gee whiz..........didn't they take the M40 out of London and head northwest......getting off at the Chester Exit? (giggle giggle!) Well, who knows....that may not be so far off the truth! Many of the early wagon ruts later became major roads!! I did read somewhere that it took nearly 100 wagons to haul them all up there! That's pretty interesting too! Aren't there any early maps from that era that might show you their route?? How 'ya been Chris?? Still digging around in the 'old stuff' eh! Me too, although I get side-tracked now and then. Nothing new on our mysterious James, however I recently got the film of the original 1709 Rotterdam emigration lists to see if I could find Johan Adam's name. VERY difficult to look at....poor writing and some of those pages had microfilmed almost black. I never found Johan Adam......but I did find a Johan Ludwig who was probably our early Ludwig fellow! Somehow it's satisfying to see their names written in an old document like that. Well, carry on my friend! Phyllis -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Le Gear [mailto:chrislegear@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 10:14 AM To: IRL-PALATINE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [IP] London - Dublin in 1709!! Dear All In 1709 our forefathers travelled from London to Chester where they took ship for Dublin. Does anyone know the route they took through England to get to Chester??? Chris _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ==== IRL-PALATINE Mailing List ==== List Administrator: Susan Laursen Willig IRL-PALATINE-admin@rootsweb.com

Hi Howard - I descend from John Lawrence-Margaret Switzer. I don't have much info on those before John Lawrence (his parents, his siblings, etc. - basically those in the period pre-1760 in the Ballingrane region). Would you have info on them? I see that you refer to John Lawrence as George Lawrence's half brother - would you have anything more on this? Thanks - Denis Jones, Mississauga, Ontario At 08:04 AM 10/15/03 -0700, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: Howard Ray Lawrence >To: carrol mick >Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 8:05 AM >Subject: Re: [IP] boy.... > > >It was mentioned below by Carol Mick that, ". . .My Mick ancestors were German Palatines who emigrated to England, then Ireland and settled in the Rathkeale/Ballangrane area of County Limerick." > >I wanted to follow up on this idea. > >My LORENTZ family is from The Palatinate. My first known LORENTZ is found in Kaiserslautern, The Palatinate in 1670. The family fled from there to Limerick during the attacks of the Catholic army of Louis XIV, The Sun King, against the Protestants. This was the second wave of attacks against Protestants, since the first one was against the Huguenots in France. > >I believe my family may have been forced to leave Alsace-Lorraine either during the Thirty Years War, or during the first wave attacks. They may have relocated to Kaiserslautern during that period. > >The family name of LORENTZ was Anglicized to LAWRENCE while the family was in Limerick. The family was also proselytized by John Wesley. They became Methodists, and brought that faith both to The American Colonies in the early 1700s, and to Upper CANADA around the time of The American Revolution: They were United Empire Loyalists, owing their lives to The Crown, and especially Queen Anne. During that time they resettled in Upper CANADA. > >Loyalist Captain George LAWRENCE, fought with Butler's Rangers, Fort Niagara, and later in The War of 1812. He had come via Philadelphia, then Vermont. > >His half-brother, John LAWRENCE, married Margaret SWITZER, the widow of Philip EMBURY. They came via the port of NYC, then Vermont, and finally resettled in Augusta, Upper CANADA. > >Just as a footnote, I have at least one earlier Palatine immigrant, a HOUS/HOUSE, from England to the Livingston Patent, The Great Nine Partners, N.Y. around 1710. > >I hope this history of some of my family helps you on your journey into the past. > >Howard > > > Limerick >----- Original Message ----- >From: "carrol mick" <carrolmick@yahoo.com> >To: <IRL-PALATINE-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 1:16 PM >Subject: Re: [IP] boy.... > > > > I recently visited my husband's grandfather E. Raymond Mick in Knoxville, Iowa and he told me that the Mick's he knows of came from Pennsylvania and Germany also. I will be glad to share any information that I come across with you in my journey. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Carrol > > > > "Armand (Jas) Haley" <haley@igs.net> wrote: > > Carrol...My Mick ancestors were German Palatines who emigrated to England, > > then Ireland and settled in the Rathkeale/Ballangrane area of County > > Limerick. In 1848 my 3rd grt grand parents emigrated to Canada and settled > > in a village that became known as Micksburg, Ontario, south west of > > Pembroke, Renfrew Co. Their descendants have > > re-settled throughout Canada and the USA. > > > > Armand Haley > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "carrol mick" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 2:15 PM > > Subject: Re: [IP] boy.... > > > > > > > I am new to the list and thought it was down also. I am looking for MICK, > > PAUL, LINSCOTT, LYMAN, THOMAS, LAUGHINGHOUSE, OLSON, RADER, ROEDER, RODER, > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Carrol > > > > > > > > > ==== IRL-PALATINE Mailing List ==== > > List Administrator: > > Susan Laursen Willig > > IRL-PALATINE-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > > > - ------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > > > > >==== IRL-PALATINE Mailing List ==== >Be the best you can be right where you are.

Hi Howard, Just wanted to tell you I have a web site on the Palatines, My family is mainly from the Doupe's and Shier's, but have switzer's, Miller's, etc. intertwined through out. Also making one just for the palatines on. www.geocities.com/keepsakebook www.geocities.com/judydrysdale Lots of history, genealogy and pictures on the site. Judy From Ontario. I think John Lawrence and Margaret Switzer is buried in the Blue church Cemetary, I have pictures of that too, as I live about 15 minutes west of it.