I have extensive experience with research in the Shirley Estate records, which for Monaghan townlands are at PRONI (Public Record Office of Northern Ireland) in Belfast, not the NA in Dublin (the story goes descendants of the English Lord Shirley didn't want them placed for safekeeping in the Republic). Other Shirley records, mainly of non-Monaghan interest are, I believe, in London. Note: there is a difference between working on the to-this-day, high-walled site where the descendants' Monaghan mansion, Lough Fea, is situated near Carrickmacross (which today we would call "an estate"), and working and/or living on "The Shirley Estate" which earlier also encompassed the many townlands the Shirleys owned, not just their personal summer residence and its immense grounds. A linen worker might have been employed at an estate's mansion, but was more probably just living/working in a townland owned by, in these cases, the Bath or Shirley family. I am sure that what is in estate records, such as Shirley's, varies widely as noted. For the Shirley Estate, for instance, I found no ancestor birth/death/marriage notes, although there were some sketchy (and unorganized) emigration-assistance papers. For me, the rental books contained the most info of interest (I already knew the ancestral townlands). In only one case a change of tenant from a 2X great-grandfather to his wife contained a rare notation "from Nov 1850" which gave a rough date of his death -- invaluable, as it is the only record anywhere (she lived to 1909). The English aristocrats who then owned these many thousands of acres in Ireland were mainly interested in the rental income and seldom personal details on who was providing it. The Bath or other "Estate" records probably do not contain personal or worker details, either. Those, if existing, will be found in religious records, depending on the denomination and what has survived where. While estate records may have been roughly indexed (as Shirley's has -- see it online at the PRONI site), looking through the records themselves is very time-consuming and sorrowful, not only for content but, when I went through them over several visits a few years back, many were crumbling and fragile and there were not funds to copy or otherwise preserve them. Best wishes in your research journeys, Sally in Washington State, USA

Many thanks Sally for your very comprehensive account of the Estate records. I very much appreciate your reply and will search the records you suggest. Johanna -----Original Message----- From: irl-monaghan-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-monaghan-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sally Sent: Thursday, 30 May 2013 5:51 AM To: irl-monaghan@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MONAGHAN] Estate Records I have extensive experience with research in the Shirley Estate records, which for Monaghan townlands are at PRONI (Public Record Office of Northern Ireland) in Belfast, not the NA in Dublin (the story goes descendants of the English Lord Shirley didn't want them placed for safekeeping in the Republic). Other Shirley records, mainly of non-Monaghan interest are, I believe, in London. Note: there is a difference between working on the to-this-day, high-walled site where the descendants' Monaghan mansion, Lough Fea, is situated near Carrickmacross (which today we would call "an estate"), and working and/or living on "The Shirley Estate" which earlier also encompassed the many townlands the Shirleys owned, not just their personal summer residence and its immense grounds. A linen worker might have been employed at an estate's mansion, but was more probably just living/working in a townland owned by, in these cases, the Bath or Shirley family. I am sure that what is in estate records, such as Shirley's, varies widely as noted. For the Shirley Estate, for instance, I found no ancestor birth/death/marriage notes, although there were some sketchy (and unorganized) emigration-assistance papers. For me, the rental books contained the most info of interest (I already knew the ancestral townlands). In only one case a change of tenant from a 2X great-grandfather to his wife contained a rare notation "from Nov 1850" which gave a rough date of his death -- invaluable, as it is the only record anywhere (she lived to 1909). The English aristocrats who then owned these many thousands of acres in Ireland were mainly interested in the rental income and seldom personal details on who was providing it. The Bath or other "Estate" records probably do not contain personal or worker details, either. Those, if existing, will be found in religious records, depending on the denomination and what has survived where. While estate records may have been roughly indexed (as Shirley's has -- see it online at the PRONI site), looking through the records themselves is very time-consuming and sorrowful, not only for content but, when I went through them over several visits a few years back, many were crumbling and fragile and there were not funds to copy or otherwise preserve them. Best wishes in your research journeys, Sally in Washington State, USA ================================= Message Boards: http://www.igp-web.com/boards.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-MONAGHAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message