Sharon, Really interesting posts of the church and those that were there in earlier years. The restaurant looks lovely. What is the round staircase next to it? Thanks for sharing all your work! Ann

I have recently completed a couple of linked posts. In the first, I describe a visit to St. Mary's Church of Ireland <http://www.thechurch.ie/history.aspx> in Dublin, the parish church just north of the Liffey where lots of Jacksons from the mid-1700s attended. It is now the Church Bar & Restaurant <http://www.thechurch.ie/>. SEE: http://sharonoddiebrown.blogspot.ca/2013/07/stones-can-talk-part-i.html and http://sharonoddiebrown.blogspot.ca/2013/07/stones-can-talk-part-ii.html In the first post, I have also included a transcription of a memorial to various WHITEHEADs, including Rev. John Thomas WHITESTONE, Rector of Killeven, Co. Monaghan (since he died in the church itself). In the second, a number of stones are transcribed, including one for Gorges Edmund HOWARD, a grandson of Capt. William JACKSON. It is worth bearing in mind that this church included parishioners that are more commonly associated with other Counties, even as far north as Derry. It also included parishioners whose ancestors would be included in the Scotch-Irish emigrants to America. In this context, it is worth noting that John Wesley, the founder of the Methodist Church, delivered his first Irish sermon here in 1747. As always, I am always curious to learn more, and if I have made errors, I do appreciate the chance to correct them. Please, just let me know, and I will get on to it. Sharon -- Sharon Oddie Brown, Roberts Creek, BC, Canada. History Project: www.thesilverbowl.com

My latest post on my blog is about the family of JACKSONs who started in Kirby Lonsdale, Westmorland, and then emigrated to post-Cromwellian Coleraine, as well as to Armagh, Down, Antrim, Meath, Cavan, Dublin, Fermanagh, Monaghan, Leitrim and elsewhere in Ireland http://sharonoddiebrown.blogspot.ca/2013/06/woof-part-one.html This is the earliest known start of a line of JACKSONs that subsequently emigrated not only to Ireland, but also to America in the pre-Civil War days. My hope was to give the flavour of their lives in the mid-1600s. At the end, are links to their family tree, the timeline of their time in Colerane, as well as some of the resources that were helpful to me in putting their story together. One of the costs of working solo, as I do, is that I often miss mistakes that I have made, some of which are obvious. I always appreciate a heads up and the chance to correct my errors. Thanks, and enjoy, Sharon -- Sharon Oddie Brown, Roberts Creek, BC, Canada. History Project: www.thesilverbowl.com

People might be interested in my song about the Irish ' from Armagh & Louth & Cavan... from Tyrone & County Monaghan' coming to Co Durham in England in the 1847s, fleeing the famine to work in the iron industry. It's called 'Back in 1847' and you can find it at the link below. _____________ Michael Burns To listen to my songs and tunes, go to http://michaelburns1.com/ >________________________________ > From: "irl-monaghan-request@rootsweb.com" <irl-monaghan-request@rootsweb.com> >To: irl-monaghan@rootsweb.com >Sent: Tuesday, 25 December 2012, 8:00 >Subject: IRL-MONAGHAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 200 > > > > >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >Put SURNAMES in CAPS > >Today's Topics: > >  1. Clogher Record on JSTOR.ORG (Nick Cimino) >  2. Monaghan to Durham (teresa callan) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 11:35:06 +0000 >From: Nick Cimino <ncimino@hotmail.com> >Subject: [IRL-MONAGHAN] Clogher Record on JSTOR.ORG >To: "irl-monaghan@rootsweb.com" <irl-monaghan@rootsweb.com> >Message-ID: <BLU002-W1889780602AFD48EA046E01AE3B0@phx.gbl> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Many college and university libraries have a program called jstor.org that gives online access to journal articles including the Clogher Record.  You can preview the first page of the Clogher Record articles by going to jstor.org. > >All the best, > >Nick Cimino >Member, APG >www.apgen.org >My Blog >http://ancestorpuzzles.blogspot.com/ > > >                        > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:26:12 -0000 >From: "teresa callan" <teresacallan@btinternet.com> >Subject: [IRL-MONAGHAN] Monaghan to Durham >To: <IRL-MONAGHAN@rootsweb.com> >Message-ID: <6BC17058C6A54B45AABAD3B2D996E16C@your5mjafe1hd3> >Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii" > >I have been interested in migration between Ulster and north east England >for some time because that was the route some of my ancestors took.  I did >wonder whether anyone had undertaken a deeper study on the subject.  I also >wondered whether the link between the north east and Ulster went back before >the steel and coal industries and that Ulstermen came across to take in the >harvest (and as the museum at Stalling Busk shows to shear the sheep).  > > > >My great grandfather Patrick Callan from Drumgoose in County Monaghan >appears in Middlesbrough in 1870 when he marries.  The census and >certificates for him indicate he is a labourer in the steel works.  However, >my father understood that this job had been combined with the job of >recruiting agent going into pubs, railway stations and other places Irish >might congregate and persuading people not to go home after the harvest but >to go into the steelworks. Whether this job was specific to him or whether >in fact the steelworks paid a bounty for recruits I do not know.  However it >is possible that Ulstermen doing the recruiting might bring in more >Ulstermen. My limited reading of the census for South Bank shows a number of >Monaghan and Armagh men.  > > > >Whilst Patrick Callan may have been coming to an area he knew - I understand >that, at least immediately after the famine the family came to England to >work - I have no suggestion that my Connelly ancestors from Tyrone ever did. >Joseph Patrick Connelly reputedly ran away from Pomeroy on his way to school >and turned up at his sister's in Newcastle.  Looking at the facts his >brother marries a County Tyrone girl in Leadgate in 1866.  At least one >sister arrives in Newcastle in 1866 or 7.  By 1871 Joseph Patrick is in >Gateshead, three of his sisters are in Newcastle and his brother is still in >Leadgate.  Again in looking through the records there are a lot of Tyrone >names.  > > > >Incidentally for anyone whose ancestors passed through the north east Brooms >is not the only church recording place of origin on marriage entries. >Stockton (which covers most of Teesside at that date) does so around 1850. >It names the parents and if they are living says where.  I think the entries >are townlands rather than parishes but I have not checked this.  > > > >Teresa > > > >------------------------------ > >To contact the IRL-MONAGHAN list administrator, send an email to >IRL-MONAGHAN-admin@rootsweb.com. > >To post a message to the IRL-MONAGHAN mailing list, send an email to IRL-MONAGHAN@rootsweb.com. > >__________________________________________________________ >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-MONAGHAN-request@rootsweb.com >with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >email with no additional text. > > >End of IRL-MONAGHAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 200 >******************************************** > > >  

Diane, Thanks for your suggestions regarding research in Monaghan and Cavan. I searched for both 2X great grandparents on rootsireland.ie. I found a John James Connell, b in 1832, who could very well be my ancestor. I know the O' was sometimes omitted. He was the only hit that came up in that search. I didn't find anything for McGinnis/Magennis for Mary or two of her sisters using just the parent's surnames and +/- 5 on the birth year in Monaghan. Denise -----Original Message----- From: irl-monaghan-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-monaghan-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dlculhane@cs.com Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 4:13 PM To: irl-monaghan@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MONAGHAN] McGinnis in Monaghan You might try for baptisms on rootsireland.ie. Be sure to insert the parents' names to avoid getting a lot of false hits. Diane -----Original Message----- From: Denise Ney <dnsny@me.com> To: IRL-MONAGHAN <IRL-MONAGHAN@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 12:41 pm Subject: [MONAGHAN] McGinnis in Monaghan Hi, Everyone! I am new to the list and this is my first posting. I have been researching my various family lines for over 15 years, but am just beginning my Irish research now. I welcome any advice and suggestions you may have. Mary McGinnis was born about 1838 in Co. Monaghan. She was the daughter of John William or William John McGinnis and Ann Kearns. She had three known siblings – Bridget Elizabeth (or vice versa) b abt 1841 in Ireland, Ellen b abt 1843 in Ireland, and Rose b abt 1848 in Louisiana (LA). These women got younger as the years passed, so the birth years are the best I can work out. Records are consistent that Rose was born in LA, but who knows. I do not know for certain when they immigrated or where. Dates in census records vary between 1850 and 1858. I believe immigration was to New Orleans, Louisiana. My first record in the USA is a marriage license for Mary in New Orleans in August 1859. She married John James O’Connell, b abt 1830 in Co. Cavan. The surety on the license was Patrick Gillon and Terrence Smith was the other witness. Their first child was Susan Ann, b 1860 in New Orleans. Her godparents were Ellen McGinnis and Patrick Gillon. Their other children were John James, b 1863 in Mobile, Alabama (AL); William McGinnis, b 1868 in Mobile; and Hugh Joseph, b 1870 in Mobile. John died in 1872 in Mobile and in 1876, Mary married Anthony Arthur Flynn. She had one more child, Mary Ellen, in 1879. Anthony died in 1883. Bridget married William Mullhall and had children Michael P., Annie (V., B., or F.), Phillip Joseph, Margaret Josephine, and Mary. Mullhall disappears and Bridget married Martin D. Kenny; it appears they had no children. Ellen married Christopher Foley and had children William J., Kate, John T., Matthew, Ambrose, Annie A., and Ella. Rose married William R. Ward and had children William and Mary. I believe these marriages took place in Mobile, AL. All the children were born in (Mobile) AL. Mary died in 1914, Bridget in 1929, Ellen in 1919, and Rose in 1935, all in Mobile. The only US record I have found so far with information beyond Ireland as the place of origin was Susan Ann’s baptism certificate. I have a few more details of the family in the US, but my real interest, at this point, is finding both Mary and John’s home in Ireland. Thanks for reading to this point! Regards, Denise ================================= Message Boards: http://www.igp-web.com/boards.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-MONAGHAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message , ================================= Message Boards: http://www.igp-web.com/boards.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-MONAGHAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The Tithe Applotments were done a few years before Mary was born and can be found on nationalarchives.ie. They show Kearnses and McGinnisses in civil parishes not far from an O'Connell entry in Cavan. If you go to the Irish Times site, you can convert the civil parishes to Catholic and then check on the status of the parish records. Unfortunately, in several cases the records don't begin until after Mary's reported birth. Diane -----Original Message----- From: Ney, Denise <Ney.Denise@epa.gov> To: irl-monaghan <irl-monaghan@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tue, Jun 25, 2013 12:01 pm Subject: Re: [MONAGHAN] McGinnis in Monaghan Diane, Thanks for your suggestions regarding research in Monaghan and Cavan. I searched for both 2X great grandparents on rootsireland.ie. I found a John James Connell, b in 1832, who could very well be my ancestor. I know the O' was sometimes omitted. He was the only hit that came up in that search. I didn't find anything for McGinnis/Magennis for Mary or two of her sisters using just the parent's surnames and +/- 5 on the birth year in Monaghan. Denise -----Original Message----- From: irl-monaghan-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-monaghan-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dlculhane@cs.com Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 4:13 PM To: irl-monaghan@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MONAGHAN] McGinnis in Monaghan You might try for baptisms on rootsireland.ie. Be sure to insert the parents' names to avoid getting a lot of false hits. Diane -----Original Message----- From: Denise Ney <dnsny@me.com> To: IRL-MONAGHAN <IRL-MONAGHAN@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 12:41 pm Subject: [MONAGHAN] McGinnis in Monaghan Hi, Everyone! I am new to the list and this is my first posting. I have been researching my various family lines for over 15 years, but am just beginning my Irish research now. I welcome any advice and suggestions you may have. Mary McGinnis was born about 1838 in Co. Monaghan. She was the daughter of John William or William John McGinnis and Ann Kearns. She had three known siblings – Bridget Elizabeth (or vice versa) b abt 1841 in Ireland, Ellen b abt 1843 in Ireland, and Rose b abt 1848 in Louisiana (LA). These women got younger as the years passed, so the birth years are the best I can work out. Records are consistent that Rose was born in LA, but who knows. I do not know for certain when they immigrated or where. Dates in census records vary between 1850 and 1858. I believe immigration was to New Orleans, Louisiana. My first record in the USA is a marriage license for Mary in New Orleans in August 1859. She married John James O’Connell, b abt 1830 in Co. Cavan. The surety on the license was Patrick Gillon and Terrence Smith was the other witness. Their first child was Susan Ann, b 1860 in New Orleans. Her godparents were Ellen McGinnis and Patrick Gillon. Their other children were John James, b 1863 in Mobile, Alabama (AL); William McGinnis, b 1868 in Mobile; and Hugh Joseph, b 1870 in Mobile. John died in 1872 in Mobile and in 1876, Mary married Anthony Arthur Flynn. She had one more child, Mary Ellen, in 1879. Anthony died in 1883. Bridget married William Mullhall and had children Michael P., Annie (V., B., or F.), Phillip Joseph, Margaret Josephine, and Mary. Mullhall disappears and Bridget married Martin D. Kenny; it appears they had no children. Ellen married Christopher Foley and had children William J., Kate, John T., Matthew, Ambrose, Annie A., and Ella. Rose married William R. Ward and had children William and Mary. I believe these marriages took place in Mobile, AL. All the children were born in (Mobile) AL. Mary died in 1914, Bridget in 1929, Ellen in 1919, and Rose in 1935, all in Mobile. The only US record I have found so far with information beyond Ireland as the place of origin was Susan Ann’s baptism certificate. I have a few more details of the family in the US, but my real interest, at this point, is finding both Mary and John’s home in Ireland. Thanks for reading to this point! Regards, Denise ================================= Message Boards: http://www.igp-web.com/boards.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-MONAGHAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message , ================================= Message Boards: http://www.igp-web.com/boards.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-MONAGHAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================= Message Boards: http://www.igp-web.com/boards.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-MONAGHAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

You might try for baptisms on rootsireland.ie. Be sure to insert the parents' names to avoid getting a lot of false hits. Diane -----Original Message----- From: Denise Ney <dnsny@me.com> To: IRL-MONAGHAN <IRL-MONAGHAN@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 12:41 pm Subject: [MONAGHAN] McGinnis in Monaghan Hi, Everyone! I am new to the list and this is my first posting. I have been researching my various family lines for over 15 years, but am just beginning my Irish research now. I welcome any advice and suggestions you may have. Mary McGinnis was born about 1838 in Co. Monaghan. She was the daughter of John William or William John McGinnis and Ann Kearns. She had three known siblings – Bridget Elizabeth (or vice versa) b abt 1841 in Ireland, Ellen b abt 1843 in Ireland, and Rose b abt 1848 in Louisiana (LA). These women got younger as the years passed, so the birth years are the best I can work out. Records are consistent that Rose was born in LA, but who knows. I do not know for certain when they immigrated or where. Dates in census records vary between 1850 and 1858. I believe immigration was to New Orleans, Louisiana. My first record in the USA is a marriage license for Mary in New Orleans in August 1859. She married John James O’Connell, b abt 1830 in Co. Cavan. The surety on the license was Patrick Gillon and Terrence Smith was the other witness. Their first child was Susan Ann, b 1860 in New Orleans. Her godparents were Ellen McGinnis and Patrick Gillon. Their other children were John James, b 1863 in Mobile, Alabama (AL); William McGinnis, b 1868 in Mobile; and Hugh Joseph, b 1870 in Mobile. John died in 1872 in Mobile and in 1876, Mary married Anthony Arthur Flynn. She had one more child, Mary Ellen, in 1879. Anthony died in 1883. Bridget married William Mullhall and had children Michael P., Annie (V., B., or F.), Phillip Joseph, Margaret Josephine, and Mary. Mullhall disappears and Bridget married Martin D. Kenny; it appears they had no children. Ellen married Christopher Foley and had children William J., Kate, John T., Matthew, Ambrose, Annie A., and Ella. Rose married William R. Ward and had children William and Mary. I believe these marriages took place in Mobile, AL. All the children were born in (Mobile) AL. Mary died in 1914, Bridget in 1929, Ellen in 1919, and Rose in 1935, all in Mobile. The only US record I have found so far with information beyond Ireland as the place of origin was Susan Ann’s baptism certificate. I have a few more details of the family in the US, but my real interest, at this point, is finding both Mary and John’s home in Ireland. Thanks for reading to this point! Regards, Denise ================================= Message Boards: http://www.igp-web.com/boards.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-MONAGHAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ,

Hi, Everyone! I am new to the list and this is my first posting. I have been researching my various family lines for over 15 years, but am just beginning my Irish research now. I welcome any advice and suggestions you may have. Mary McGinnis was born about 1838 in Co. Monaghan. She was the daughter of John William or William John McGinnis and Ann Kearns. She had three known siblings – Bridget Elizabeth (or vice versa) b abt 1841 in Ireland, Ellen b abt 1843 in Ireland, and Rose b abt 1848 in Louisiana (LA). These women got younger as the years passed, so the birth years are the best I can work out. Records are consistent that Rose was born in LA, but who knows. I do not know for certain when they immigrated or where. Dates in census records vary between 1850 and 1858. I believe immigration was to New Orleans, Louisiana. My first record in the USA is a marriage license for Mary in New Orleans in August 1859. She married John James O’Connell, b abt 1830 in Co. Cavan. The surety on the license was Patrick Gillon and Terrence Smith was the other witness. Their first child was Susan Ann, b 1860 in New Orleans. Her godparents were Ellen McGinnis and Patrick Gillon. Their other children were John James, b 1863 in Mobile, Alabama (AL); William McGinnis, b 1868 in Mobile; and Hugh Joseph, b 1870 in Mobile. John died in 1872 in Mobile and in 1876, Mary married Anthony Arthur Flynn. She had one more child, Mary Ellen, in 1879. Anthony died in 1883. Bridget married William Mullhall and had children Michael P., Annie (V., B., or F.), Phillip Joseph, Margaret Josephine, and Mary. Mullhall disappears and Bridget married Martin D. Kenny; it appears they had no children. Ellen married Christopher Foley and had children William J., Kate, John T., Matthew, Ambrose, Annie A., and Ella. Rose married William R. Ward and had children William and Mary. I believe these marriages took place in Mobile, AL. All the children were born in (Mobile) AL. Mary died in 1914, Bridget in 1929, Ellen in 1919, and Rose in 1935, all in Mobile. The only US record I have found so far with information beyond Ireland as the place of origin was Susan Ann’s baptism certificate. I have a few more details of the family in the US, but my real interest, at this point, is finding both Mary and John’s home in Ireland. Thanks for reading to this point! Regards, Denise

hi, Are there any plans to document the names and locations of headstones in Urbleshanny graveyard ?? Regards, SEAN----- Researchers may not be aware that the inscriptions for the cemetery at St Marys (RC Muckno parish) is now online, each stone has been photographed, numbered and transcribed, there is even a map showing the location of each. its a wonderful source and can be accessed either by scrolling through each burial or by the surname of any person sought. Well done to all involved and many thanks. Roisin

Hi Roisin, This is great news -- thank you for sharing. Can you provide a link to the online source, please? I've searched through the parish website, mucknoparish.ie, and tried some google searches, but I have not found this information. What am I missing? Thank you, Karen Skelton -----Original Message----- From: irl-monaghan-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-monaghan-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Roisin Lafferty Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 4:50 AM To: MONAGHAN LISTSERVE Subject: [MONAGHAN] St Marys Castleblayney, muckno parish Researchers may not be aware that the inscriptions for the cemetery at St Marys (RC Muckno parish) is now online, each stone has been photographed, numbered and transcribed, there is even a map showing the location of each. its a wonderful source and can be accessed either by scrolling through each burial or by the surname of any person sought. Well done to all involved and many thanks. Roisin ================================= Message Boards: http://www.igp-web.com/boards.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-MONAGHAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi! Did you happen to come across any windrums in the gravetard? Thanks Ralph Wyndrum -----Original Message----- From: irl-monaghan-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-monaghan-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Michael Carragher Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 11:06 AM To: irl-monaghan@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MONAGHAN] St Marys Castleblayney, muckno parish Thanks Roisin! Here are the links: Search graves - select Monaghan, St Marys Castleblayney - enter surname or leave blank to browse: http://www.irishgraveyards.ie/search_page.php Parish website: http://www.mucknoparish.ie/our-churches/st-marys-castleblayney I already have my families photographed from here but nice to something online for others. Will be visiting soon :) Regards, Mike Carragher New York ================================= Message Boards: http://www.igp-web.com/boards.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-MONAGHAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Roisin! Here are the links: Search graves - select Monaghan, St Marys Castleblayney - enter surname or leave blank to browse: http://www.irishgraveyards.ie/search_page.php Parish website: http://www.mucknoparish.ie/our-churches/st-marys-castleblayney I already have my families photographed from here but nice to something online for others. Will be visiting soon :) Regards, Mike Carragher New York

Hi Roisin. What website is that on? Thanks! MJ -----Original Message----- From: Roisin Lafferty <laffertyd@eircom.net> To: MONAGHAN LISTSERVE <IRL-MONAGHAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 4:51 am Subject: [MONAGHAN] St Marys Castleblayney, muckno parish Researchers may not be aware that the inscriptions for the cemetery at St Marys (RC Muckno parish) is now online, each stone has been photographed, numbered and transcribed, there is even a map showing the location of each. its a wonderful source and can be accessed either by scrolling through each burial or by the surname of any person sought. Well done to all involved and many thanks. Roisin ================================= Message Boards: http://www.igp-web.com/boards.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-MONAGHAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Researchers may not be aware that the inscriptions for the cemetery at St Marys (RC Muckno parish) is now online, each stone has been photographed, numbered and transcribed, there is even a map showing the location of each. its a wonderful source and can be accessed either by scrolling through each burial or by the surname of any person sought. Well done to all involved and many thanks. Roisin

Some readers prefer just the raw data, while others prefer context and story, so, I offer both approaches. The story version is on my blog, and includes a link to the new data I have posted. See the blog: http://sharonoddiebrown.blogspot.ca/2013/06/geekdom.html The link in the 2nd paragraph connects to the 300+ pages of notes on deeds that I have just uploaded. The blog post also features a deed from Thomas and Mary JACKSON in 1788, and talks about why these deeds matter for Irish history and genealogical research. For those who prefer just the raw data, here is a link to the recent Deeds research I have posted (Note: this is a site with no ads or fees -- all is free): http://www.thesilverbowl.com/documents/2013%20versions/Links-Deeds-Notes.html You can catch up with other new material that I have posted via the New hyperlink: http://www.thesilverbowl.com/misc/whatsnew.htm My research covers most counties in Ireland, as well as a range of key surnames, so please forgive the cross-postings on various research sites. Unfortunately, Google Site search has stopped indexing my new material properly, and seems to be hit and miss with lots of my older posts. I need to hire a teckie to fix that, so my apologies in the interim. Otherwise - Enjoy, Sharon -- Sharon Oddie Brown, Roberts Creek, BC, Canada. History Project: www.thesilverbowl.com

John Gardiner extracted the names and places from the Aghabog CoI Survey. You can see it by clicking on MONAGHAN and then Census Substitutes. http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ >> Many thanks to our great contributors << :) Christina Ireland Genealogy Projects

Who wants to get together in Castleblayney or nearby between June 28 to July 2? Sunday June 30 probably would be no good - family reunion in the works. Best regards, Mike Carragher

Many thanks Sally for your very comprehensive account of the Estate records. I very much appreciate your reply and will search the records you suggest. Johanna -----Original Message----- From: irl-monaghan-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-monaghan-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sally Sent: Thursday, 30 May 2013 5:51 AM To: irl-monaghan@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MONAGHAN] Estate Records I have extensive experience with research in the Shirley Estate records, which for Monaghan townlands are at PRONI (Public Record Office of Northern Ireland) in Belfast, not the NA in Dublin (the story goes descendants of the English Lord Shirley didn't want them placed for safekeeping in the Republic). Other Shirley records, mainly of non-Monaghan interest are, I believe, in London. Note: there is a difference between working on the to-this-day, high-walled site where the descendants' Monaghan mansion, Lough Fea, is situated near Carrickmacross (which today we would call "an estate"), and working and/or living on "The Shirley Estate" which earlier also encompassed the many townlands the Shirleys owned, not just their personal summer residence and its immense grounds. A linen worker might have been employed at an estate's mansion, but was more probably just living/working in a townland owned by, in these cases, the Bath or Shirley family. I am sure that what is in estate records, such as Shirley's, varies widely as noted. For the Shirley Estate, for instance, I found no ancestor birth/death/marriage notes, although there were some sketchy (and unorganized) emigration-assistance papers. For me, the rental books contained the most info of interest (I already knew the ancestral townlands). In only one case a change of tenant from a 2X great-grandfather to his wife contained a rare notation "from Nov 1850" which gave a rough date of his death -- invaluable, as it is the only record anywhere (she lived to 1909). The English aristocrats who then owned these many thousands of acres in Ireland were mainly interested in the rental income and seldom personal details on who was providing it. The Bath or other "Estate" records probably do not contain personal or worker details, either. Those, if existing, will be found in religious records, depending on the denomination and what has survived where. While estate records may have been roughly indexed (as Shirley's has -- see it online at the PRONI site), looking through the records themselves is very time-consuming and sorrowful, not only for content but, when I went through them over several visits a few years back, many were crumbling and fragile and there were not funds to copy or otherwise preserve them. Best wishes in your research journeys, Sally in Washington State, USA ================================= Message Boards: http://www.igp-web.com/boards.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-MONAGHAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have extensive experience with research in the Shirley Estate records, which for Monaghan townlands are at PRONI (Public Record Office of Northern Ireland) in Belfast, not the NA in Dublin (the story goes descendants of the English Lord Shirley didn't want them placed for safekeeping in the Republic). Other Shirley records, mainly of non-Monaghan interest are, I believe, in London. Note: there is a difference between working on the to-this-day, high-walled site where the descendants' Monaghan mansion, Lough Fea, is situated near Carrickmacross (which today we would call "an estate"), and working and/or living on "The Shirley Estate" which earlier also encompassed the many townlands the Shirleys owned, not just their personal summer residence and its immense grounds. A linen worker might have been employed at an estate's mansion, but was more probably just living/working in a townland owned by, in these cases, the Bath or Shirley family. I am sure that what is in estate records, such as Shirley's, varies widely as noted. For the Shirley Estate, for instance, I found no ancestor birth/death/marriage notes, although there were some sketchy (and unorganized) emigration-assistance papers. For me, the rental books contained the most info of interest (I already knew the ancestral townlands). In only one case a change of tenant from a 2X great-grandfather to his wife contained a rare notation "from Nov 1850" which gave a rough date of his death -- invaluable, as it is the only record anywhere (she lived to 1909). The English aristocrats who then owned these many thousands of acres in Ireland were mainly interested in the rental income and seldom personal details on who was providing it. The Bath or other "Estate" records probably do not contain personal or worker details, either. Those, if existing, will be found in religious records, depending on the denomination and what has survived where. While estate records may have been roughly indexed (as Shirley's has -- see it online at the PRONI site), looking through the records themselves is very time-consuming and sorrowful, not only for content but, when I went through them over several visits a few years back, many were crumbling and fragile and there were not funds to copy or otherwise preserve them. Best wishes in your research journeys, Sally in Washington State, USA

Bob Thanks for the tip. murray On May 27, 2013, at 6:52 PM, Bob Graham wrote: > You won't know till you get there. Some just have rent books listing tenants > and payments, others have details of leases, and some just random letters > from the landlord. > > You need to ask the NA in Dublin if they have an online catalogue like the > PRONI. If not can ask if they can send you details of the catalogue for that > particular estate. > > Hopefully Dublin will follow the PRONI example and put the catalogue where > you can search for potentially interesting items before you get there. > > Bob Graham > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Murray Bell" <murraybel@msn.com> > To: <irl-monaghan@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 11:25 PM > Subject: [MONAGHAN] Estate Records Question > > >> Anybody out there have any experience reviewing Estate Records? I am >> referring specifically to the Bath Estate in County Monaghan. I know from >> the Tithe Applotment books that my ancestor was a tenant on this estate in >> the 1820's. When I am in Dublin this September, I am planning on going >> into the National Library and searching the Bath Estate records. Is this >> worthwhile or am I wasting my time? What might i find? Any feedback >> appreciated. >> >> Murray Bell >> ================================= >> >> Message Boards: >> http://www.igp-web.com/boards.htm >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-MONAGHAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ================================= > > Message Boards: > http://www.igp-web.com/boards.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-MONAGHAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >