Hello, Can someone help to clear up some confusion I have regarding Irish naming patterns? I've just recently started my Irish research and am not very knowledgeable. Ann Harney has listed Irish naming patterns as shown directly below. 1. First son: father's father 2. Second son: mother's father 3. Third son: father 4. Fourth son: father's oldest brother 5. Fifth son: father's second oldest brother or mother's oldest brother 6. First daughter: mother's mother. 7. Second daughter: father's mother. 8. Third daughter: mother 9. Fourth daughter: mother's oldest sister 10. Fifth daughter: mother's second oldest sister or father's oldest sister. On a recent trip to the LDS Family History Library in Salt Lake City, Utah, an employee told me that the list as shown above is a Scotish naming pattern and not necessarily true for the Irish. She said that Irish naming patterns were more likely to be that the first daughter was named after the father's mother, and the 2nd daughter was named after the mother's mother. This information is key to me being able to determine which one of two Denis McGoughs from Donaghmoyne parish was my g g grandfather. I appreciate any information you can offer. Thank very much. Judy

There are two ways to search the archives to this list and read posts made by others in the past. Go to www.rootsweb.com Scroll down the page to 'Mailing Lists' 1. Highlight 'Interactive Search' Key in IRL-MONAGHAN-L to box provided, submit search and you can search the archives of this list for the word/s you are interested in by year. The archives for the Monaghan list begin in 1999 Only those messages with those words will appear on your screen. You can use this method to search for posts made by other people so long as you know their email address. 2. Highlight 'Threaded Archives Search' Key in IRL-MONAGHAN and submit query. Using this method you can read every post which was made to the Monaghan list since August 1999, by month.

http://members.tripod.com/~janelyons/Where http://members.tripod.com/~janelyons/RC_Parishes_1836 http://members.tripod.com/~janelyons/Clogher

I've been neglecting the Monaghan list of late - my apologies, but I've been a bit busy. I'm going to post some URL's - the links on the pages do not work for the most part yet - but they will on the final product. The pages are incomplete, colours and finalising not decided on yet..........but, the information is there, although there is some editing to be done. So - I would appreciate it if the information on the pages was not posted to anywhere else, by anyone and that it not be used on any other web page until all corrections are made. If anyone has any comments - I'd appreciate hearing them. No questions or queries for the moment please - I'm way behind as it is and I have to finish a project. Thanks Jane

There's also a book on this particular subject: Flight From Famine, The Coming of the Irish to Canada by Donald MacKay (McClelland & Stewart, Toronto, Ontario, 1990. Also, here are some extracts from papers relative to Emigration of Irish to British provinces in North America: http://www.ist.uwaterloo.ca/~marj/genealogy/reports/report1846.html Mlouferg@aol.com wrote: > Would someone please share why so many people from County Monaghan immigrated > to the Ontario area? I'm sure there is a simple reason, but I'm still > working on getting multiple lines back to the time they arrived in the U.S. > Mary Lou Ferguson

Hi - so as to Ports of Immigration like my g grandmother who came from Monaghan in ca.1880 then, and i was lead on a 'wild goose chase' being told she came from Belfast, and yet i found she was from Monaghan..... So maybe that is what my mother took as she meant her home in Ireland, yet she was telling story of her trip across coming from Belfast and she had to be in steerage and how horrible it was yet she remembered the singing they would all do aboard ship and her learning songs in other languages. So as to a person going to Belfast and you say they still were coming from Liverpool or Glasgow, did they usuallly take a different ship to the larger port from say Belfast then? How did that work? Thanks, Joan in rural MT Also, visit my 4 personal home pages on spirituality and genealogy: http://www.geocities.com/crystalwoman_2000/ crystalwoman@in-tch.com

Thank you, Allen. I know a lot more than I did (which wasn't very much!). And I'm sure you have helped others, too. Mary Lou

I think there are people on the list that have offered look-ups in the past on "The Monaghan Story". It is in every large library in the states. Derry, Dundalk, Sligo and Belfast were some of the ports. At some points in time there could be no direct immigration from Ireland itself and they would have to first go to Liverpool or Glasgow and such. Estate Records and Application books are often available on film from the British Lib. ,which can be ordered at any large Genealogy Lib. I note the Ordnance Survey 1834-38 of Monaghan lists most of the landlords or agents for some of the Parishes in Monaghan. Usually you can see them in the Tithes records and later in Griffiths Valuation Allen Temple Beagan http://members.tripod.com/~Al_Beagan/start.htm researching Beagan and McCabe in Cavan Beagan and Trainor in Monaghan Chevallier and Knight in Jersey Beagan, Knight, Brace, Chancey in NFLD Beagan, Power and Trainor in PEI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elaine" <elaine@cyberhouse.org> To: "Allen Temple Beagan" <beagan@capecod.net> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 10:22 PM Subject: Re: immigration from Monaghan into the US > Hi, > Where do you locate this book. My McCullough/McNally relatives came from > Monaghan about 1849. Someone just located those names on a ship list > today - but it said they came from Derry. Would that be the place they left > from? Also how do I find estate records and applications books? > Thank you, > Elaine > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Allen Temple Beagan <beagan@capecod.net> > To: <IRL-MONAGHAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 7:06 PM > Subject: immigration from Monaghan into the US > > > > Hi, > > I may be wrong but I believe some to the states is outlined in "The > Monaghan > > Story" by Livingston > > > > The best source if you know the landlord in Monaghan is to ck the estates > > records, they often list who is being assisted and to where. > > > > > > There are also Application Books. This below is a Cavan landlord but is > > about a tennant in Monaghan; > > > > Jan. 26, 1835 "page 82 #6 "Application; Ja's Reilly of Aghabog wishes to > go > > to America and to give up his lease to his uncle Peter Boylan" Answer > "none" > > Applications and replies on the Farnham Estates, Ms 3117, National Lib. of > > Ireland > > > > > > Allen Temple Beagan > > http://members.tripod.com/~Al_Beagan/start.htm > > researching Beagan and McCabe in Cavan > > Beagan and Trainor in Monaghan > > Chevallier and Knight in Jersey > > Beagan, Knight, Brace, Chancey in NFLD > > Beagan, Power and Trainor in PEI > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Frank Gebhart" <frankge@sprintmail.com> > > To: "Allen Temple Beagan" <beagan@capecod.net> > > Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 9:21 PM > > Subject: Re: Ontario immigration > > > > > > > Hi, Allen! Frank Gebhart here! > > > > > > Do you know of any assisted immigration from Monaghan into the US? To > > > Pittsburgh, perhaps? > > > > > > Thanks for your thoughts. > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > Allen Temple Beagan wrote: > > > > > > > Depending on the time period and province almost all the large > Monaghan > > > > settlements in Canada were the result of assisted immigration and land > > > > schemes. Look at the ads in the Irish newspapers for the time your > > > > interested in. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

An example you can find in Newspapers of immigration Oct.27, 1840 "The Monaghan immigrants who came to this Island May 1839 in the Agitator and Consbrook who are entitled to their deposits paid to Hiram Shaw of Belfast known as head money and was as expected would be demanded by the Board of Health are required to attend a meeting at Davenport Lodge 4th of Nov. next for disbursment of 57 £ forwarded by Shaw to Hon Donald McDonald. By Francis Kelly agent. Oct.20,1840".RG Reel 4 AN3 .C2R674 Boston Public Lib The above is re the efforts of a proprietor (Hon Donald McDonald) in Prince Edward Island to fill his 10,000 acres. If he doesn't fill the 10,000 he is at risk of losing the Crown Grant so he will often pay for passage and lease 100 acres minimum to a immigrant at reasonable rates. The newspaper is the Royal Gazette of Charlottetown, PEI Allen Temple Beagan http://members.tripod.com/~Al_Beagan/start.htm researching Beagan and McCabe in Cavan Beagan and Trainor in Monaghan Chevallier and Knight in Jersey Beagan, Knight, Brace, Chancey in NFLD Beagan, Power and Trainor in PEI

Hi, I may be wrong but I believe some to the states is outlined in "The Monaghan Story" by Livingston The best source if you know the landlord in Monaghan is to ck the estates records, they often list who is being assisted and to where. There are also Application Books. This below is a Cavan landlord but is about a tennant in Monaghan; Jan. 26, 1835 "page 82 #6 "Application; Ja's Reilly of Aghabog wishes to go to America and to give up his lease to his uncle Peter Boylan" Answer "none" Applications and replies on the Farnham Estates, Ms 3117, National Lib. of Ireland Allen Temple Beagan http://members.tripod.com/~Al_Beagan/start.htm researching Beagan and McCabe in Cavan Beagan and Trainor in Monaghan Chevallier and Knight in Jersey Beagan, Knight, Brace, Chancey in NFLD Beagan, Power and Trainor in PEI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Gebhart" <frankge@sprintmail.com> To: "Allen Temple Beagan" <beagan@capecod.net> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 9:21 PM Subject: Re: Ontario immigration > Hi, Allen! Frank Gebhart here! > > Do you know of any assisted immigration from Monaghan into the US? To > Pittsburgh, perhaps? > > Thanks for your thoughts. > > Frank > > Allen Temple Beagan wrote: > > > Depending on the time period and province almost all the large Monaghan > > settlements in Canada were the result of assisted immigration and land > > schemes. Look at the ads in the Irish newspapers for the time your > > interested in. > > > > > >

Are there County Monaghan estate documents available on microfilm (without coming to Ireland) or available on the internet ??? I am interested in locating the records of Sir Thomas Lennard, who owned most of Drumsnat, Kilmore and Clones parishes in the 1700's and 1800's... I think I could find several of my ancestors renting land from him ??? Thanks Dick Kiernan

Thank you for your insight. I thought there must be some type of historical reason. I, for one, certainly need to do more research. Mary Lou

Depending on the time period and province almost all the large Monaghan settlements in Canada were the result of assisted immigration and land schemes. Look at the ads in the Irish newspapers for the time your interested in. Allen Temple Beagan http://members.tripod.com/~Al_Beagan/start.htm researching Beagan and McCabe in Cavan Beagan and Trainor in Monaghan Chevallier and Knight in Jersey Beagan, Knight, Brace, Chancey in NFLD Beagan, Power and Trainor in PEI ----- Original Message ----- From: "psmyth" <psmyth@lindsaycomp.on.ca> To: <IRL-MONAGHAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 6:59 PM Subject: Re: Burns marriage > In answer to the question of why so many people emigrated from Monaghan to Ontario, I can suggest one simple and obvious reason. This suggestion is based on my reading of several recent books on Irish immigration patterns in Ontario. Often, following the successful emigration of Irish settlers to a particular area, letters home would result in others (family or friends) following. > Pat > >

Thanks, Pat, I guess I was hoping for a specific reason for the initial pattern. Perhaps it was just a random choice of a successful location which, as you say, would, of course, bring others later. Mary Lou

In answer to the question of why so many people emigrated from Monaghan to Ontario, I can suggest one simple and obvious reason. This suggestion is based on my reading of several recent books on Irish immigration patterns in Ontario. Often, following the successful emigration of Irish settlers to a particular area, letters home would result in others (family or friends) following. Pat

Hi Listers, I live in Cardiff,Wales and I am looking for any help regarding a FARRELL family from Killeevan. James Farrel married Mary McArdle and their first child was born,I believe,in 1867. one or more of their children went to Scotland in about 1904. Their children;s names(from a family bible) were: Margaret/John/Edward/Thomas/Harry/Bridget/Maria/Rose/Jane. If this family is familiar to you,or anyone can help,I would really appreciate it. If anyone has any Welsh connections,I would be pleased to help, Regards, Lynn

I have research my Hill's right back to the town of Corragarry / Monaghan / Ematris / Cootehill . Were i found a match to David HILL and Robert Hill in the Griffith index. I would like to find a marrage cert. so i can trace the Moore side also. What do I do from here? No Certs. David Hill (abt.1823-Dec271877)and (married?) Margaret Moore(abt.1822-?) lift Corragrray Ireland with all of their kids(9) and settled in (1858-1860) Ontario Canada. Kids:( Dates are bang on; but no Cert.) 1. Hill Robert (IRE June 17/1843-unknown). USA PA 2. Hill Jane (IRE June 28 1844-unknown) .May 15 1867. Chambers Moses (unknown-unknown) Ont ,Canada 3. Hill David (IRE Jan 19 1844-unknown) .Apr 27 1869. McDonald Sarah(unknown-unknown) Ont, Canada 4. Hill Mary M (IRE Jan 19 1845-unknown) .Dec 25 1873. Gordon James(unknown-unknown) Ont Canada 5. Hill Samuel (IRE Jan 24 1849- unknown). Married. Caroline (unknown-unknown)[widow of James Johnson] Pa, USA 6. Hill Joseph (IRE May 10 1850-unknown). Married. Unknown Phoebe(unknown-unknown) Ont Canada & PA. USA 7. Hill Susan (IRE Nov 30 1850-unknown) .Nov 15 1871. Falls John(unknown-unknown) Ont, Canada 8. Hill James (IRE Sept 10 1853-Nov 13 1899) .Dec 26 1877. Coutts Isabelle (June2 1856-Nov 6 1949) Ont Canada 9. Hill Margaret Jane (Can. May 26 1863-unknown) .Oct 10 1888. Winters John (unknown-unknown) Ont, Canada An advice would be welcome.( I have little experience researching Ireland records) Andy (The greatest amount of data " I found " in Canada was the Land records.)

Elizabeth Mae McKENNA is my g grandmother and one of 7=(6 girls and 1 boy) She was b.ca.1865 Monaghan Ireland, came to US in steerage ca.1885+ and sisters already in US met her at NYC port. She m.ca.1895 in NYC(?) to Pierre Frederic THOUROT. They mainly lived in Brooklyn, NY and had their family. She d.ca.1952 in a hospital in Brooklyn, NY and became ward of state....so they probably put her in pauper's grave--(I cannot find any data on this yet, but was told this by her granddtr).... Strange enough, her name was on a deed for a plot in St. John's Cem and had buried her husband there who had died about 30 yrs before her....but there is another person in that plot who died a few years after and he still is a mystery to me- a John O'CONNOR. ***So i am having trouble proving all about her for years and years now, as i cannot find any b/m/d cert for her.*** Her Parents were: James McKENNA, b.1833/35 (of the 'Brianies' McKENNA's of Monaghan Ireland) and Bridget McKENNA, b.ca.1835 (of the "Ross" McKENNA's of Monaghan Ireland) James McKENNA's mother was Mary McMEEL of Monaghan Ireland......and do not know his father's first name yet. ******* *_*I am formerly a Suffolk Co Long Island girl and had been married to a HS guy, and we had 2 sons, and my husband passed on early in life at age 39, so a few years after had passed, i drove WEST and began a new pioneer life in MT in mid-1989, and met my soulmate here in Oct '91.....and we run a small ranch since, but it is up for sale now as we want to get us some land on a lake somewhere and build a cabin and have more time for him to fish, and me to write, read, and do genealogy.........(never too rustic though as i love my computer)-haha! Happy Trails, Joan in rural MT(i love to read, write, work on my computer and genealogy, but we do just a little bit of everything here)*_* Also, visit my 4 personal home pages on spirituality and genealogy: http://www.geocities.com/crystalwoman_2000/ crystalwoman@in-tch.com

Yes, in person; previous message posted several months ago on this board re. cost, etc. Search is £10 IRE (about $11.50 US, check current exchange, search fee was posted on the wall last September), and copies are £1 each. Add postage, etc. Don't be surprised if you received a strip of paper with only the entry you requested, so ask for a copy of the top-of-column identifications, too. They are supposed to give you only the entry, not the whole page, for privacy reasons, although what it matters after 100-plus years eludes me. People there were very helpful. If you know the exact month/year, probably won't be charged a search fee, but if it is more than, say, a year's search, a fee might be charged. Each book is indexed and each book appears to be one year or so. The NE Health Board covers all of Monaghan, at least. You are better off contacting the NE Board rather than Dublin, if you are sure that your ancestor came from Monaghan -- small office, fewer requests, more focused. They do lookups, copying, and it surely is cheaper!

Would someone please share why so many people from County Monaghan immigrated to the Ontario area? I'm sure there is a simple reason, but I'm still working on getting multiple lines back to the time they arrived in the U.S. Mary Lou Ferguson