I'm sorry for sending you to a site which took so long to load and had that PDF file - I hadn't checked it out when I forwarded Stephen's mail. Reading through what you have said about not being able to get in to read the document I was thinking that it may be a good idea if those of you who are interested could discuss the situation - through the list - and decide what could be said in mails re modernising the records. I'll try and get to the doc later on tonight or tomorrow morning and see if I can at least summarise it for this list. *But* if those of you who have been to Ireland gave some thought to how you found research here - access in the General Registrar's Office for example, and compared it to access you have to your own records - I remember last year or the year before there was furore on the lists because the canadians were sgoing to shut down or close access to the 1901 census or something like that? If you were to think of what access to Irish records means to you - be it in other countries or here in Ireland. If there is anyone subbed to this list who has ancestors from Tipperary then you can't access the parish registers for Tipp. Think of the financial aspect - how it would affect you if you could not easily access recrds yourself. Then the first point to be made is of course the fact that so many church records were destroyede in the Four Courts Fire in 1922. It's not me or Stephen that limiting access to records would affect but those of you who are out there around the world. We all hear about how great the Diaspora is - there are many of you who would love to have Irish Citizenship just for the sake of having it - This is the one way or the only way in which you can hit the Irish Government so to speak. Tourism is important in this country - genealogy is not. I remember approaching publishers re my gravestone transcriptions in the past and being told that they publish only what the tourist wants. I know that many many people come to Ireland - as plain tourists - having no interest in 'genealogy' per se, but there are also many who come here with the intention of researching their ancestry. So - it's up to you to make the noise on this issue. I'll see what I can do re that document tonight, and some one of you can make the first move and begin to think ot talk about what losing access to Irish records would mean to you - or how you find Irish research in general compared to research in other countries. at least it will liven up the list :-) Plus, there's more than the Govt. to be contacted re this issue - mails can be sent to our most popular chat shows and those presenters usually sit up and take note when they receive a lot on one subject Jane

Thank you Jane, Would it be possible to post e-mail and/or snail mail addresses for the people we should write to - like the ones mentioned in your message. Elaine in Oregon, USA Searching: McCullough, McNally in Monaghan; Glasse, Martin in Tyrone; Mulvaney in Dublin area and Curran "born in Ireland" PS: Does anyone know - is Kennison/Kenison an Irish surname? ----- Original Message ----- From: Jane Lyons <jlyons1@iol.ie> To: <IRL-MONAGHAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 12:07 PM Subject: Civil Registration PDF > I'm sorry for sending you to a site which took so long to load and had that > PDF file - I hadn't checked it out when I forwarded Stephen's mail. > > Reading through what you have said about not being able to get in to read > the document I was thinking that it may be a good idea if those of you who > are interested could discuss the situation - through the list - and decide > what could be said in mails re modernising the records. > > I'll try and get to the doc later on tonight or tomorrow morning and see if > I can at least summarise it for this list. > > *But* if those of you who have been to Ireland gave some thought to how you > found research here - access in the General Registrar's Office for example, > and compared it to access you have to your own records - I remember last > year or the year before there was furore on the lists because the canadians > were sgoing to shut down or close access to the 1901 census or something > like that? > > If you were to think of what access to Irish records means to you - be it in > other countries or here in Ireland. If there is anyone subbed to this list > who has ancestors from Tipperary then you can't access the parish registers > for Tipp. > > Think of the financial aspect - how it would affect you if you could not > easily access recrds yourself. Then the first point to be made is of course > the fact that so many church records were destroyede in the Four Courts Fire > in 1922. > > It's not me or Stephen that limiting access to records would affect but > those of you who are out there around the world. We all hear about how > great the Diaspora is - there are many of you who would love to have Irish > Citizenship just for the sake of having it - This is the one way or the only > way in which you can hit the Irish Government so to speak. Tourism is > important in this country - genealogy is not. I remember approaching > publishers re my gravestone transcriptions in the past and being told that > they publish only what the tourist wants. > > I know that many many people come to Ireland - as plain tourists - having no > interest in 'genealogy' per se, but there are also many who come here with > the intention of researching their ancestry. > > So - it's up to you to make the noise on this issue. > > I'll see what I can do re that document tonight, and some one of you can > make the first move and begin to think ot talk about what losing access to > Irish records would mean to you - or how you find Irish research in general > compared to research in other countries. > > at least it will liven up the list :-) > > Plus, there's more than the Govt. to be contacted re this issue - mails can > be sent to our most popular chat shows and those presenters usually sit up > and take note when they receive a lot on one subject > Jane > >

Yes Evelyn, and not only Americans! We of Irish extraction are far flung over the whole wide world and all feel the same. I agree wholeheartedly with your observations about we elderly family historians, not having enough time left to us, to wait to benefit from the release of the records, that will help us to find the places we long to visit. When we know were to go, we will all be pleased to tred the paths our ancestors trod and to breathe the air they breathed. To see the hills, rivers, streams and the beautiful shades of green has long since been the theme of the songs the exiles sang and which we all sing in our homes and in Irish Associations around the world. No matter how long ago it has been since our ancestors left the shores of their homeland, we, their descendants, still feel a large part of our hearts belong to Ireland. Many of those whose families never left Ireland do not feel the same urge to find their roots, because theirs are there with them. It may be hard for them to understand how we all feel and not surprising. The old Irish saying, "We never miss the water till the well runs dry", is so true. It is such a wonderful way of promoting Irish interests and tourism. The more that so many of we elderly genealogists from all over the world, learn about our ancestors, the more we long to visit the land of their birth. Young people too are members of all the Family History Societies worldwide and they in turn will influence their children and Ireland should have a constant stream of visitors right into the future. We would love to feel welcome. Regards to all family historians, everywhere, who are trying to find their Irish ancestors. I hope everyone will follow Jane's advice and email those who can help us gain our objectives. Therese, in Queensland Australia.

Yes Evelyn, and not only Americans! We of Irish extraction are far flung over the whole wide world and all feel the same. I agree wholeheartedly with your observations about we elderly family historians, not having enough time left to us, to wait to benefit from the release of the records, that will help us to find the places we long to visit. When we know were to go, we will all be pleased to tred the paths our ancestors trod and to breathe the air they breathed. To see the hills, rivers, streams and the beautiful shades of green has long since been the theme of the songs the exiles sang and which we all sing in our homes and in Irish Associations around the world. No matter how long ago it has been since our ancestors left the shores of their homeland, we, their descendants, still feel a large part of our hearts belong to Ireland. Many of those whose families never left Ireland do not feel the same urge to find their roots, because theirs are there with them. It may be hard for them to understand how we all feel and not surprising. The old Irish saying, "We never miss the water till the well runs dry", is so true. It is such a wonderful way of promoting Irish interests and tourism. The more that so many of we elderly genealogists from all over the world, learn about our ancestors, the more we long to visit the land of their birth. Young people too are members of all the Family History Societies worldwide and they in turn will influence their children and Ireland should have a constant stream of visitors right into the future. We would love to feel welcome. Regards to all family historians, everywhere, who are trying to find their Irish ancestors. I hope everyone will follow Jane's advice and email those who can help us gain our objectives. Therese, in Queensland Australia.

Yes Evelyn, and not only Americans! We of Irish extraction are far flung over the whole wide world and all feel the same. I agree wholeheartedly with your observations about we elderly family historians, not having enough time left to us, to wait to benefit from the release of the records, that will help us to find the places we long to visit. When we know were to go, we will all be pleased to tred the paths our ancestors trod and to breathe the air they breathed. To see the hills, rivers, streams and the beautiful shades of green has long since been the theme of the songs the exiles sang and which we all sing in our homes and in Irish Associations around the world. No matter how long ago it has been since our ancestors left the shores of their homeland, we, their descendants, still feel a large part of our hearts belong to Ireland. Many of those whose families never left Ireland do not feel the same urge to find their roots, because theirs are there with them. It may be hard for them to understand how we all feel and not surprising. The old Irish saying, "We never miss the water till the well runs dry", is so true. It is such a wonderful way of promoting Irish interests and tourism. The more that so many of we elderly genealogists from all over the world, learn about our ancestors, the more we long to visit the land of their birth. Young people too are members of all the Family History Societies worldwide and they in turn will influence their children and Ireland should have a constant stream of visitors right into the future. We would love to feel welcome. Regards to all family historians, everywhere, who are trying to find their Irish ancestors. I hope everyone will follow Jane's advice and email those who can help us gain our objectives. Therese, in Queensland Australia.

Yes Evelyn, and not only Americans! We of Irish extraction are far flung over the whole wide world and all feel the same. I agree wholeheartedly with your observations about we elderly family historians, not having enough time left to us, to wait to benefit from the release of the records, that will help us to find the places we long to visit. When we know were to go, we will all be pleased to tred the paths our ancestors trod and to breathe the air they breathed. To see the hills, rivers, streams and the beautiful shades of green has long since been the theme of the songs the exiles sang and which we all sing in our homes and in Irish Associations around the world. No matter how long ago it has been since our ancestors left the shores of their homeland, we, their descendants, still feel a large part of our hearts belong to Ireland. Many of those whose families never left Ireland do not feel the same urge to find their roots, because theirs are there with them. It may be hard for them to understand how we all feel and not surprising. The old Irish saying, "We never miss the water till the well runs dry", is so true. It is such a wonderful way of promoting Irish interests and tourism. The more that so many of we elderly genealogists from all over the world, learn about our ancestors, the more we long to visit the land of their birth. Young people too are members of all the Family History Societies worldwide and they in turn will influence their children and Ireland should have a constant stream of visitors right into the future. We would love to feel welcome. Regards to all family historians, everywhere, who are trying to find their Irish ancestors. I hope everyone will follow Jane's advice and email those who can help us gain our objectives. Therese, in Queensland Australia.

Yes Evelyn, and not only Americans! We of Irish extraction are far flung over the whole wide world and all feel the same. I agree wholeheartedly with your observations about we elderly family historians, not having enough time left to us, to wait to benefit from the release of the records, that will help us to find the places we long to visit. When we know were to go, we will all be pleased to tred the paths our ancestors trod and to breathe the air they breathed. To see the hills, rivers, streams and the beautiful shades of green has long since been the theme of the songs the exiles sang and which we all sing in our homes and in Irish Associations around the world. No matter how long ago it has been since our ancestors left the shores of their homeland, we, their descendants, still feel a large part of our hearts belong to Ireland. Many of those whose families never left Ireland do not feel the same urge to find their roots, because theirs are there with them. It may be hard for them to understand how we all feel and not surprising. The old Irish saying, "We never miss the water till the well runs dry", is so true. It is such a wonderful way of promoting Irish interests and tourism. The more that so many of we elderly genealogists from all over the world, learn about our ancestors, the more we long to visit the land of their birth. Young people too are members of all the Family History Societies worldwide and they in turn will influence their children and Ireland should have a constant stream of visitors right into the future. We would love to feel welcome. Regards to all family historians, everywhere, who are trying to find their Irish ancestors. I hope everyone will follow Jane's advice and email those who can help us gain our objectives. Therese, in Queensland Australia.

Yes Evelyn, and not only Americans! We of Irish extraction are far flung over the whole wide world and all feel the same. I agree wholeheartedly with your observations about we elderly family historians, not having enough time left to us, to wait to benefit from the release of the records, that will help us to find the places we long to visit. When we know were to go, we will all be pleased to tred the paths our ancestors trod and to breathe the air they breathed. To see the hills, rivers, streams and the beautiful shades of green has long since been the theme of the songs the exiles sang and which we all sing in our homes and in Irish Associations around the world. No matter how long ago it has been since our ancestors left the shores of their homeland, we, their descendants, still feel a large part of our hearts belong to Ireland. Many of those whose families never left Ireland do not feel the same urge to find their roots, because theirs are there with them. It may be hard for them to understand how we all feel and not surprising. The old Irish saying, "We never miss the water till the well runs dry", is so true. It is such a wonderful way of promoting Irish interests and tourism. The more that so many of we elderly genealogists from all over the world, learn about our ancestors, the more we long to visit the land of their birth. Young people too are members of all the Family History Societies worldwide and they in turn will influence their children and Ireland should have a constant stream of visitors right into the future. We would love to feel welcome. Regards to all family historians, everywhere, who are trying to find their Irish ancestors. I hope everyone will follow Jane's advice and email those who can help us gain our objectives. Therese, in Queensland Australia.

Yes Evelyn, and not only Americans! We of Irish extraction are far flung over the whole wide world and all feel the same. I agree wholeheartedly with your observations about we elderly family historians, not having enough time left to us, to wait to benefit from the release of the records, that will help us to find the places we long to visit. When we know were to go, we will all be pleased to tred the paths our ancestors trod and to breathe the air they breathed. To see the hills, rivers, streams and the beautiful shades of green has long since been the theme of the songs the exiles sang and which we all sing in our homes and in Irish Associations around the world. No matter how long ago it has been since our ancestors left the shores of their homeland, we, their descendants, still feel a large part of our hearts belong to Ireland. Many of those whose families never left Ireland do not feel the same urge to find their roots, because theirs are there with them. It may be hard for them to understand how we all feel and not surprising. The old Irish saying, "We never miss the water till the well runs dry", is so true. It is such a wonderful way of promoting Irish interests and tourism. The more that so many of we elderly genealogists from all over the world, learn about our ancestors, the more we long to visit the land of their birth. Young people too are members of all the Family History Societies worldwide and they in turn will influence their children and Ireland should have a constant stream of visitors right into the future. We would love to feel welcome. Regards to all family historians, everywhere, who are trying to find their Irish ancestors. I hope everyone will follow Jane's advice and email those who can help us gain our objectives. Therese, in Queensland Australia.

Yes Evelyn, and not only Americans! We of Irish extraction are far flung over the whole wide world and all feel the same. I agree wholeheartedly with your observations about we elderly family historians, not having enough time left to us, to wait to benefit from the release of the records, that will help us to find the places we long to visit. When we know were to go, we will all be pleased to tred the paths our ancestors trod and to breathe the air they breathed. To see the rivers and streams and the beautiful shades of green has long since been the theme of the songs the exiles sang and which we all sing in our homes and in Irish Clubs around the world. No matter how long ago it has been since our ancestors left the shores of their homeland, we their descendants, still feel a large part of our hearts belong to Ireland.

Here are some Marriages ~"KEY: GU = Glen Urquhart; [M] Married ; {W} witnesses All marriage were performed by Angus Macrae, Minister; - (unless noted)" Date Name of Male Profession Place of Residence [M] Name of Female Residence Where {W}Names of Witnesses <A HREF="http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/bryanfkeddy/marriages.html">Glen Urquhart Marriage Register</A> <-Aol Users http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/bryanfkeddy/marriages.html Examples: 14/09/1866 Malcolm Fraser - Farmer Kiltarlity [M] Margaret McLean Glen Urquhart at "GU, Balbeg" 07/12/1866 John McCallum Labourer Kilmorack [M] Mary Grant GU at "GU, Milton" 21/12/1866 John McFie Merchant "GU, Milton" [M] Ann Kennedy GU at "GU, Coilty side" 08/03/1867 John McDonald Farmer "GU, Balbeg" [M] Ann Fraser GU at "GU, Balnaglaic" 03/05/1867 Donald Tulloch Labourer "GU, Kirkhill" [M] Christy McDonald GU at "GU, Mill of Tore" 06/06/1867 Donald MacKenzie Farmer "GU, Achtemarrach?" [M] Eliza McMillan GU at "GU, Achnababan" 21/06/1867 Alexander McDonald Labourer Glenmoriston [M] Jane McLean GU at "GU, Drumnadrochit" 26/07/1867 Hugh McDonald Farmer "GU, Gartalie" [M] Catherine Fraser GU at "GU, Gartalie" 10/12/1867 John Amos Farmer "Gairloch, Sheildaig" [M] Mary McDonald GU at "GU, Kerrowgear" 26/12/1867 John Shaw Shepherd "Kiltarlity, Cudrach" [M] Catherine McIntosh GU at "Kiltarlity, Buntait" 31/12/1867 Donald McLean Farmer "GU, Upperton" [M] Janet McMillan GU at "GU, Strathnacro" 16/01/1868 Alexander MacKenzie Shoemaker "GU, Achtemarrach" [M] Ann McDonald GU at "GU, Drumnadrochit" 20/02/1868 Donald Fraser Farmer "GU, Garbeg" [M] Catherine Fraser GU at "GU, Balnain" 12/06/1868 Peter Grant Labourer "GU, Badcaul" [M] Mary McMillan GU at "GU, Balmacaan" 08/09/1868 Donald Grant Labourer Kiltarlity [M] Mary McPherson GU at Kiltarlity 30/12/1868 James Johnstone Labourer Petty [M] Margaret Ross GU at "GU, Balnain" 30/12/1868 Malcom McLaren Labourer Stratherrick [M] Mary McDonald GU at "GU, Milton" 21/01/1869 Alexander McMillan Labourer Achanababan [M] Mary Fraser GU at "GU, Rhichraggan" 29/01/1869 John McDougall Tenant Upper Bunloit [M] Isabella McDonald GU "GU, Upper Bunloit" 29/01/1869 Alexander Cameron Labourer Balmacaan [M] Janet McIntosh GU at "GU, Balmacaan" 01/06/1869 Duncan Fraser Tenant "Dibaig, Gairloch" [M] Catherine McDonald Applecross at "Dibaig, Gairloch" 25/06/1869 Donald McIntosh Gamekeeper Lochrosque [M] Rebecca Thomson "Conon, Ross-shire" at Conon 31/12/1869 John McDonald Farm Servant "Leick, Fort Augustus" [M] Janet Fraser Fort Augustus at Leick 21/01/1870 Alexander Munro Labourer Inverness [M]Helen Grant GU at "Strone, GU" 20/01/1870 William MacKenzie Mason Achtemarach [M] Margaret Chisholm GU at Upper Bunloit 16/12/1870 James Campbell "Grieve, Borlum" GU [M] Mary McDougall GU at Borlum Bridge 23/12/1870 Donald McDonald Shoemaker "Lenie, GU" [M] Catherine McIntosh GU at Upper Bunloit 23/12/1870 Donald Fraser Tenant Upper Gartalie [M] Ann McMillan GU at Gartalie 29/12/1870 John Urquhart Labourer Bunloit [M] Mary McLennan GU at Lenie 19/01/1871 Donald McIntosh Farmer Upper Bunloit [M] Margaret McDonald GU at Upper Bunloit 09/02/1871 William Cumming Mason Balnaglaic [M] Margaret McLean GU at Upperton 24/02/1871 James MacKenzie Labourer "Fearn, Ross-shire" [M] Alexandrina Grant GU at Achnasheen? 18/05/1871 John Fraser Labourer Upper Drumbuie [M] Margaret Cumming GU at Achtuie 26/05/1871 David MacKay Labourer Foderty [M] Ann McLean GU at GU 17/08/1871 Ewen Kennedy Shepherd Kilmonivaig [M] Betsy Fraser GU at GU 01/09/1871 James Gordon Smith GU [M] Eliza McDonald GU at "GU, Balbeg" (Marr. by Rev. Donald MacDonald) 07/12/1871 Alexander McDonald Labourer Kiltarlity [M] Christina Fouler GU at "GU, Balnain" 14/12/1871 John McIntosh Farmer GU [M] Janet Fraser GU at "GU, Lenie" ............. ~J.McComb-S.California-Researching Clan MacKintosh and Clan Chattan~Clan MacThomas Society of Scotland~

Here are some Baptisms ! (KEY: MR= Marriage Records ; MS= Maiden Surname; KSA= Kirk Session Appearance; GU= Glen Urquhart; FA = Fort Augustus; AM = Angus MacRae NOTES: Some Dates of Birth are given as e.g. 1/1/86 - but no day or month was given in register- original programme would not accept '?' or '0' so first day of month or year are given - notes on right state when this is the case .No Name of Child Father Mother Father's Occ. Born Place Baptised Min. Notes Other Refs) . <A HREF="http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/bryanfkeddy/baptisms.html">glenbaptisms </A> <-Aol Users http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/bryanfkeddy/baptisms.html (Examples:) 1 Catherine Fraser F Hugh Fraser Ann Fraser Farmer 06/05/1866 "GU, Upper Gartalie" 23/09/1866 AM 2 Marjory MacDonald F Kenneth MacDonald Mary MacMillan Labourer 15/01/1866 "GU, Balnain" 30/09/1866 AM 3 Alexander Fraser M Alexander Fraser Margaret Labourer 09/06/1866 "GU, Drumnadrochit" 01/10/1866 AM 4 Ann McIntosh F Duncan McIntosh Elizabeth McMillan Labourer 12/06/1866 "GU, 'Castle' Strone" 10/10/1866 AM 5 Catherine Cumming F Duncan Cumming Margaret Labourer 12/07/1866 "GU, Balnacraig" 10/10/1866 AM 6 James Fraser M James Fraser Rebekah* Farmer 23/09/1866 "GU, Lakefield" 23/10/1866 AM Sp.'Rebecca' in later records 7 John Ross M John Ross Joiner "GU, Lewiston" 26/10/1866 AM Details missing 8 Alexander MacMillan M John MacMillan Catherine Labourer 03/02/1866 "GU, Strathnacro" 27/10/1866 AM 9 May McIntosh F Andrew McIntosh Isabella Urquhart Labourer "GU, Bunloit" 29/10/1866 AM Details missing 10 Alexander McMillan M Dougald McMillan Ann Farmer "GU, Grantown" 05/11/1866 AM Details missing 11 Margaret McDonald F Donald McDonald Marjory McDonald Labourer 27/11/1865 GU 16/11/1866 AM KSA 12 Margaret Anderson F George Anderson Ann Smith 09/11/1866 "GU, Marchfield" 18/11/1866 AM 13 Duncan Cumming M Alexander Cumming Helen Labourer 08/08/1866 "GU, Milton" 21/11/1866 AM 14 Donald McDougall M Alexander McDougall Ann McDonald Farmer 26/10/1866 "GU, Lenie" 22/11/1866 AM 15 Margaret McDougall F Alexander McDougall Mary Black Farmer 09/06/1864 "GU, Lenie" 22/11/1866 AM ............................... ~J.McComb-S.California-Researching Clan MacKintosh and Clan Chattan~Clan MacThomas Society of Scotland~

I just got to the page. You must have the Acrobat Reader software installed on your machine to access the document. Go to http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/acrrdistribute.html It is free, but you must register.. Cheers, Ann > I tried to go to the website and it took quite a while - when it

mid 1830'ties He was in Armagh Town on April 29th, Aughnacloy, County Tyrone on April 30th, and Emyvale in County Monaghan on May 1st and Saturday, May 2nd, and Monaghan Town on May 4th, 1835 See: http://www.qub.ac.uk/iis/publications/OrdnanceSurveyMemoirs/OSMhomepage.htm Cheers, Ann

I agree also, I think there must be some sort of genetic memory or something. My ancestors left Monaghan in 1849, others left Tyrone in 1867 and another left Dublin for Lancashire where he married and started a family and then they emigrated in 1885 & 1887. I have one other - Benjamin Curran, a gg grandfather. Notes say he was from Ireland and born in either Ireland or Canada (how is that for searching for a needle in a haystack!!!) The only real record we have for him is that of his marriage to Sarah Kennison in the St. Paul d'Abbotsford Anglican Church in 1827 in Quebec. (Is Kennison an Irish surname??) I am sitting here right now listening to my third CD by the Irish Tenors - the music makes my blood "sing" and some of the words bring tears. Finbar is singing "Forty Shades of Green" right now from my brand new "Ellis Island" CD. Elaine Searching: Irish: McCullough, McNally, Glasse, Martin, Mulvaney, Curran and English: Phethean and Mansfield Scotland: Giffen ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom & Therese Hoare <thoard@aceconnect.com.au> To: <IRL-MONAGHAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 1:29 PM Subject: Re: BRINGING IRISH CIVIL REGISTRATION INTO THE 21st CENTURY > Yes Evelyn, and not only Americans! We of Irish extraction are far flung > over the whole wide world and all feel the same. I agree wholeheartedly > with your observations about we elderly family historians, not having > enough time left to us, to wait to benefit from the release of the records, > that will help us to find the places we long to visit. When we know were to > go, we will all be pleased to tred the paths our ancestors trod and to > breathe the air they breathed. To see the rivers and streams and the > beautiful shades of green has long since been the theme of the songs the > exiles sang and which we all sing in our homes and in Irish Clubs around the > world. > > No matter how long ago it has been since our ancestors left the shores of > their homeland, we their descendants, still feel a large part of our hearts > belong to Ireland. > >

I tried to go to the website and it took quite a while - when it said "done" all I had was a blank page and an acrobat reader box which also was blank. I tried it twice more and the same thing happened. Elaine in Oregon, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: Jane Lyons <jlyons1@iol.ie> To: <IRL-MONAGHAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 9:24 PM Subject: Fw: BRINGING IRISH CIVIL REGISTRATION INTO THE 21st CENTURY > Here in Ireland genealogy and family history is not looked on in the same > vein as it is by those of you who research your Irish Ancestry. Our older > graveyards are just left there to rot in the majority of counties, local > history societies are few and far between, people for the most part do not > have any interest in researching their ancestry. > > For the last few years the Government is supposed to have had a programme to > computerise our Birth, Marriage and Death records - but that is scorned by > our genealogists, it's been in dis-array or worked in a dis-organised > fashion and they doubt that it will ever finish. > > So, this particular document and consultation exercise will only be looked > at and commented on by a relative few here - that will be seen as the > 'amount of interest' in the subject and then little notice will be taken of > what the genealogists have to say about the matter more than likely because > there are statistically so few compared to the rest of the population. > > Therefore it is very important that those of you who do have an interest in > genealogy take the time to read this document and pass your comments on to > those who Stephen lists here. > > Jane > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "steven smyrl" <smyrl@indigo.ie> > Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.ireland > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 10:09 AM > Subject: BRINGING IRISH CIVIL REGISTRATION INTO THE 21st CENTURY > > > > > > > > COUNCIL OF IRISH GENEALOGICAL ORGANISATIONS > > > > On Tuesday, 1 May, CIGO was invited to a press launch in Dublin. The > Ministers for Health & Children and Social, Community & Family Affairs, > Micheál Martin TD and Dermot Ahern TD, were launching the consultative stage > of the 'GRO PROJECT' in the form of a document entitled Bringing Civil > Registration into the 21st Century - A Consultation Document on the > Modernisation of the Civil Registration Service. This document can be found > on the web at: www.groireland.ie/images/consultation.pdf . The consultation > exercise is open to all, but unfortunately is quite short, it ends on the > 31 May. CIGO encourages all organisations and individuals involved in Irish > genealogical research to have their say. E-mail submissions may be sent to > grodoc@welfare.ie , however CIGO suggests that lengthy and/or detailed > submissions should be made in writing and sent to: > > > > Civil Registration Modernisation Programme > > Department of Social, Community and Family Affairs > > Goldsmith House > > Pearse Street > > Dublin 2 > > Republic of Ireland > > > > Appendix 6 of Bringing Civil Registration... lists a number of questions > designed to assist those who wish to submit their views. Of particular > interest is the section headed 'Public Access to Registration Records'. > This section needs to be addressed thoroughly or genealogists may find that > the new legislation (which is to be enacted later in the year) will, for the > first time since 1845, severely restrict their access to certain sections of > the Public Record ! Don't forget that this is also your opportunity to let > the two Departments know that it is high time that permission was given by > the Registrar General to allow genealogical groups to purchase copies of the > Irish civil registration films held by the LDS church. > > > > Given the number of times over the years that the problem of the Irish > General Register Office has raised its ugly head, some readers might 'think > why bother ?'. DON'T ! This is the opportunity that we have all waited so > long for. The next few months are crucial. We must all work hard to make > sure that the new legislation proposed by the Irish Government fairly > reflects the interests of Irish genealogists - both in Ireland and overseas. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Steven Smyrl > > Executive Liaison Officer > > > >

I can't begin to tell you how frustrating it was trying to deal with local "genealogical" societies when we visited Monaghan, Tyrone and Armagh in 1993. Whatever little information they had was hoarded and kept to themselves in an attempt to extract exorbitant sums of money to perform "research" based on information supplied to them. And even when you gave in to their extortionary techniques, the information provided was useless !!! I wish the government and the bureaucrats well and God speed in their efforts to indeed bring Civil Registration into the 21st Century. The success of this initiative will indeed be a boon not only to genealogists but to the economy of all of Ireland. Regards, John Patrick Hagan

Where do I go to sigh up! I am breathing on 78 years old. My greatest comfort each day is to try and find where my Irish relatives lived and died and what their lives were like. I have been at this for nearly 30 years and my Mother tried to find information on her Gibson's and Graham's in the 1940s. It hasn't gotten any easier but someday I will find a list of Coldstream Guards that will have my great great great grandfather listed. I fight daily to be able to get to my computer and try and find Glenns, Hemphills, Doaks, Ankroms, Mc Sheas, and Starrs. I am writing a family history about all the people I can connect to, my final effort will not just be a list of names and where they were born but what was happening in the world at the time. Here, I thought some of these people lived under a rock, is it just that the material I am searching so hard for is being held back because of a few people who want to keep it secret! I would have been there several times over if I knew where in the world to go. My sons are interested but live busy lives and want a place to go rather than just wander into Ireland. Think what it would do for the country to have interested Americans enjoying walking on the same streets as their great great grandfathers walked on!. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jane Lyons <jlyons1@iol.ie> To: <IRL-MONAGHAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 9:24 PM Subject: Fw: BRINGING IRISH CIVIL REGISTRATION INTO THE 21st CENTURY > Here in Ireland genealogy and family history is not looked on in the same > vein as it is by those of you who research your Irish Ancestry. Our older > graveyards are just left there to rot in the majority of counties, local > history societies are few and far between, people for the most part do not > have any interest in researching their ancestry. > > For the last few years the Government is supposed to have had a programme to > computerise our Birth, Marriage and Death records - but that is scorned by > our genealogists, it's been in dis-array or worked in a dis-organised > fashion and they doubt that it will ever finish. > > So, this particular document and consultation exercise will only be looked > at and commented on by a relative few here - that will be seen as the > 'amount of interest' in the subject and then little notice will be taken of > what the genealogists have to say about the matter more than likely because > there are statistically so few compared to the rest of the population. > > Therefore it is very important that those of you who do have an interest in > genealogy take the time to read this document and pass your comments on to > those who Stephen lists here. > > Jane > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "steven smyrl" <smyrl@indigo.ie> > Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.ireland > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 10:09 AM > Subject: BRINGING IRISH CIVIL REGISTRATION INTO THE 21st CENTURY > > > > > > > > COUNCIL OF IRISH GENEALOGICAL ORGANISATIONS > > > > On Tuesday, 1 May, CIGO was invited to a press launch in Dublin. The > Ministers for Health & Children and Social, Community & Family Affairs, > Micheál Martin TD and Dermot Ahern TD, were launching the consultative stage > of the 'GRO PROJECT' in the form of a document entitled Bringing Civil > Registration into the 21st Century - A Consultation Document on the > Modernisation of the Civil Registration Service. This document can be found > on the web at: www.groireland.ie/images/consultation.pdf . The consultation > exercise is open to all, but unfortunately is quite short, it ends on the > 31 May. CIGO encourages all organisations and individuals involved in Irish > genealogical research to have their say. E-mail submissions may be sent to > grodoc@welfare.ie , however CIGO suggests that lengthy and/or detailed > submissions should be made in writing and sent to: > > > > Civil Registration Modernisation Programme > > Department of Social, Community and Family Affairs > > Goldsmith House > > Pearse Street > > Dublin 2 > > Republic of Ireland > > > > Appendix 6 of Bringing Civil Registration... lists a number of questions > designed to assist those who wish to submit their views. Of particular > interest is the section headed 'Public Access to Registration Records'. > This section needs to be addressed thoroughly or genealogists may find that > the new legislation (which is to be enacted later in the year) will, for the > first time since 1845, severely restrict their access to certain sections of > the Public Record ! Don't forget that this is also your opportunity to let > the two Departments know that it is high time that permission was given by > the Registrar General to allow genealogical groups to purchase copies of the > Irish civil registration films held by the LDS church. > > > > Given the number of times over the years that the problem of the Irish > General Register Office has raised its ugly head, some readers might 'think > why bother ?'. DON'T ! This is the opportunity that we have all waited so > long for. The next few months are crucial. We must all work hard to make > sure that the new legislation proposed by the Irish Government fairly > reflects the interests of Irish genealogists - both in Ireland and overseas. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Steven Smyrl > > Executive Liaison Officer > > >

Here in Ireland genealogy and family history is not looked on in the same vein as it is by those of you who research your Irish Ancestry. Our older graveyards are just left there to rot in the majority of counties, local history societies are few and far between, people for the most part do not have any interest in researching their ancestry. For the last few years the Government is supposed to have had a programme to computerise our Birth, Marriage and Death records - but that is scorned by our genealogists, it's been in dis-array or worked in a dis-organised fashion and they doubt that it will ever finish. So, this particular document and consultation exercise will only be looked at and commented on by a relative few here - that will be seen as the 'amount of interest' in the subject and then little notice will be taken of what the genealogists have to say about the matter more than likely because there are statistically so few compared to the rest of the population. Therefore it is very important that those of you who do have an interest in genealogy take the time to read this document and pass your comments on to those who Stephen lists here. Jane ----- Original Message ----- From: "steven smyrl" <smyrl@indigo.ie> Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.ireland Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 10:09 AM Subject: BRINGING IRISH CIVIL REGISTRATION INTO THE 21st CENTURY > > > COUNCIL OF IRISH GENEALOGICAL ORGANISATIONS > > On Tuesday, 1 May, CIGO was invited to a press launch in Dublin. The Ministers for Health & Children and Social, Community & Family Affairs, Micheál Martin TD and Dermot Ahern TD, were launching the consultative stage of the 'GRO PROJECT' in the form of a document entitled Bringing Civil Registration into the 21st Century - A Consultation Document on the Modernisation of the Civil Registration Service. This document can be found on the web at: www.groireland.ie/images/consultation.pdf . The consultation exercise is open to all, but unfortunately is quite short, it ends on the 31 May. CIGO encourages all organisations and individuals involved in Irish genealogical research to have their say. E-mail submissions may be sent to grodoc@welfare.ie , however CIGO suggests that lengthy and/or detailed submissions should be made in writing and sent to: > > Civil Registration Modernisation Programme > Department of Social, Community and Family Affairs > Goldsmith House > Pearse Street > Dublin 2 > Republic of Ireland > > Appendix 6 of Bringing Civil Registration... lists a number of questions designed to assist those who wish to submit their views. Of particular interest is the section headed 'Public Access to Registration Records'. This section needs to be addressed thoroughly or genealogists may find that the new legislation (which is to be enacted later in the year) will, for the first time since 1845, severely restrict their access to certain sections of the Public Record ! Don't forget that this is also your opportunity to let the two Departments know that it is high time that permission was given by the Registrar General to allow genealogical groups to purchase copies of the Irish civil registration films held by the LDS church. > > Given the number of times over the years that the problem of the Irish General Register Office has raised its ugly head, some readers might 'think why bother ?'. DON'T ! This is the opportunity that we have all waited so long for. The next few months are crucial. We must all work hard to make sure that the new legislation proposed by the Irish Government fairly reflects the interests of Irish genealogists - both in Ireland and overseas. > > Kind regards, > > Steven Smyrl > Executive Liaison Officer >

----- Original Message ----- From: Mary George To: IRL-MAYO-L@ROOTSWEB.COM Cc: MAYO-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 10:53 PM Subject: Irish census statistics Here are some interesting statistics from census of 1841 1861 1871 for England and Scotland regarding Irish immigrants. The population of Ireland rose from over 4 million in 1781 to over 8 million in 1841. By the end of 19th century, the population had decreased to approx 50% of 1851 levels. Long before the famine years of the late 1840's Irish men and women emigrated to England and south Wales, and to a lesser extent to Scotland, in search of work. There were often seen as seasonal harvesters in rural areas. They formed a significant proportion of those who constructed railways and canals. Emigration increased rapidly after 1801. 1841 census lists 289,404 Irish born residents in England and Wales, and Scotland had 126,321. This does not include any of their children who were not born in Ireland. 1861 census lists 601, 634 Irish born residents in England and Wales, in Scotland, 218,745. Again, these do not include the children born to those immigrants. The favourite destinations were London, Liverpool and other Lancashire towns, and parts of Lowland Scotland. By 1851, many Lancashire towns had large numbers of Irish e.g. 22% of Liverpool population, 13% of Manchester population. Ulster families tended to head further north. About 1000 immigrants a week arrive in Glasgow Scotland in 1848. Because of the low population in Scotland, the proportion of Irish immigrants was higher, although 3 times as many went to England. In 1851, 7.9 % of the whole population of Scotland was Irish, and 2.9 % of whole population in England was Irish. In each case, there were concentrations in particular areas. For example, 18% of the population of Dundee was Irish. In 1871 82% of Irish immigrants were labourers. There was another wave of immigration to England during the farming depression in late 1870's and 80's. During 1950's and 1960's there was another wave of immigration to United Kingdom, with an estimate of 750,000 Irish born immigrants living there in 1969. This time, the main concentrations in England were London (especially Kilburn) Bristol and Birmingham. By 1870, the Irish formed about one third of the foreign-born population of the USA. No wonder we all have such difficulty finding them. Mary G