Possibly but am looking at 1837 map. Will be there in a few hours so can check it then. I think it may be the McKennas of Truagh and there's so many of them but they have been quite well researched. I wouldn't even know where to start sorting them! On 19:59, Sean 0'Corr wrote: > Hi Dave, > > Not sure that's correct about the townland being in both counties. According to the Griffiths maps, 1911 census as well as the current Monaghan County Council interactive planning map the townland of Mullanderg is wholly in Co. Monaghan. I think the County Council mapping tool is most useful for locating townlands as it outlines their exact boundaries which many other maps do not. Here is the link: http://193.178.1.178/Monaghan_gPlan/ > > Regards, > Seán > > Dave Hall wrote: > > >> Well Mullanderg townland consists of 146 acres, it is not in Monaghan, >> neither is it in Tyrone but it in both. The county border runs through >> it. About 130 acres of it are in Monaghan, the rest in Tyrone....It is >> approx 1mile from Aughnacloy towards Monaghan and located beteen the N2 >> and the A28 roads. >> > > > > > > >

apparently that video number should open the program but it seems you get a list. It's called Death or Canada

http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1070197

I photographed some church records direct from the parish registers in Co Monaghan and have a George Gilliland, son of Joseph amd Mary, Crieve, born 1916. Any use to you? Am just entering records into my database when the Gilliland name rang a bell. Dave. On 19:59, George Gilliland wrote: > Hello listers, and especially Dave Hall, > > I am researching WILLIAMSON and GILLILAND from the Rockcorry area and have been stymied by an excess of data in the early 1800 timeframe. I am attempting to use geography to try to associate families. Church records have early Williamsons born in Donaghanard in Ematris Parish. I have been unable to locate this townland (I think!) in Ordnance maps, early Townland directories and, even, Google. I've had an equal lack of success locating Drumhillagh and Liscomisky which, I believe, are in the same general locale. > > Would it be possible that Donaghanard became Derrykinard which is where the Williamson and Gilliland families resided later on? > > Thanking you all in advance for your thoughts. > > George Gilliland > Bonita Springs, Florida, USA >

Well I can only go by the map I have. The Church of Ireland would not have kept records in 1800's as the Church of Ireland didn't exist then. Am well aware of the various denomination buried in g/yards incl Methodists. Anyway, I'll be there tomorrow and can easily check! Moy townland is not in Monaghan. Any maps of this era were hand drawn and very inaccurate anyway so you'll find it hard to get two matching maps. I actually have a photo of this townland with the border line running through it. Have no idea of where you got your "information" and resent the clear innuendo that I'm a liar! Thank you and have a nice day. On 07/04/2010 15:49, [email protected] wrote: > Dave writes: > > === Well Mullanderg townland consists of 146 acres, it is not in > Monaghan, > neither is it in Tyrone but it in both. The county border runs through it. > About 130 acres of it are in Monaghan, the rest in Tyrone....It is approx > 1mile from Aughnacloy towards Monaghan and located beteen the N2 and the A28 > roads. === > > Dave, > > I have no idea where you could have gotten this "information". Mullanderg > is officially 141 acres, and every one of those acres is in a single body - > well-inside the Monaghan border. Mullanderg is surrounded by other Monaghan > townlands, and the nearest any part of Mullanderg is to the Tyrone border, > is about a half-mile, going north through Moy or Mullynure townlands. Going > ENE is only slightly farther, through Mullaghnahegny townland. You can > verify this from the OS Townland Index maps, the Archaeological Inventory of > County Monaghan maps and from the Monaghan County Council planning maps (chose > the six-inch map option), at: == > http://193.178.1.178/Monaghan_gPlan/default.aspx?fn=04319 ==. > > Regarding "what's across the border" into Tyrone, the Discovery and > Discoverer maps seem to show only the townland of Mulnahorn.....but I don't have > any good maps or information on Tyrone or the other of the Six Counties as I > have no interest in them. But the Townland Listings do not show a Mullanderg > or any such townland name in Co. Tyrone. > > === or course their religion would be helpful! There's no point in > looking for them in a C of I g/yard/church if they were RC and vice versa. === > > I think this depends on the years desired. This is a section of the > Introduction to Brian Mitchell's "A Guide to Irish Churches and Graveyards": > "Generally, Church of Ireland graveyards should be examined irrespective of an > ancestor's religion. It was October 1829 before a Catholic cemetery opened > in Dublin at Goldenbridge. Prior to the 1820's, owing to the operation of > the Penal Laws, both Catholics and Protestants shared the same graveyards. > And prior to the Burial Act of 1868, which permitted dissenting ministers to > conduct burial services, the Church of Ireland held jurisdiction over funeral > services for all Protestants. Right up to the mid-nineteenth century it is > not uncommon to find Presbyterian ministers and Methodist preachers buried > in a Church of Ireland cemetery." > > > Pete > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Pete Schermerhorn, in the glorious Berkshire hills of western Massachusetts > </HTML> > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. > Virus Database (VPS): 100407-0, 07/04/2010 > Tested on: 07/04/2010 18:29:46 > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > > >

Pete was saying you were mistaken, not lying. You're also mistaken when you say the Church of Ireland didn't exist in the 1800s. The Church of Ireland (also known as the Established Church) traces its origins to the 1500s, when Henry VIII broke with Rome and most Irish bishops, but not lay people, supported him, forming the Church of Ireland to correspond with the Church of England. diane

The townland of Mullanderg consists of 141 acres, 2 roods and 17 perches. It lies within the Civil Parish of Errigal Trough, Barony of Trough, Poor Law Union of Monaghan, County Monaghan. There is no other listing of that spelling of the townland of Mullanderg in all of Ireland. As to the dates of the records of the Church of Ireland, many of them begin in the 1790's. My sources: 1. "General Alpha Index to the Townlands and Towns, Parishes and Baronies of Ireland" 2. "Irish Records Sources for Family & Local History" by James G. Ryan, PHD The townland of Moy is located in two different places in Co. Monaghan: Moy, Parish of Muckno, Barony of Cremorne, Poor Law Union of Castleblayney, Co. Monaghan Moy, Parish of Errigal Trough, Barony of Trough, Poor Law Union of Clogher, Co. Monaghan

George writes: === Church records have early Williamsons born in Donaghanard in Ematris Parish. I have been unable to locate this townland (I think!) in Ordnance maps, early Townland directories and, even, Google. I've had an equal lack of success locating Drumhillagh and Liscomisky which, I believe, are in the same general locale. === George, I'll have to do some more searching for the Donaghanard problem.....but I have some suggestions for you for the other two. Lisacumasky townland is in Aghabog civil parish, just 4 miles north of Rockcorry. There are two "nearby" Drumhillagh townlands - one is in Ballybay civil parish, 4 miles E of Rockcorry, and another is in Aghnamullen CP, about 3 - 1/2 miles ESE of Rockcorry. I'll look further for Donaghanard. Pete - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Pete Schermerhorn, in the glorious Berkshire hills of western Massachusetts </HTML>

Dave writes: === Well Mullanderg townland consists of 146 acres, it is not in Monaghan, neither is it in Tyrone but it in both. The county border runs through it. About 130 acres of it are in Monaghan, the rest in Tyrone....It is approx 1mile from Aughnacloy towards Monaghan and located beteen the N2 and the A28 roads. === Dave, I have no idea where you could have gotten this "information". Mullanderg is officially 141 acres, and every one of those acres is in a single body - well-inside the Monaghan border. Mullanderg is surrounded by other Monaghan townlands, and the nearest any part of Mullanderg is to the Tyrone border, is about a half-mile, going north through Moy or Mullynure townlands. Going ENE is only slightly farther, through Mullaghnahegny townland. You can verify this from the OS Townland Index maps, the Archaeological Inventory of County Monaghan maps and from the Monaghan County Council planning maps (chose the six-inch map option), at: == http://193.178.1.178/Monaghan_gPlan/default.aspx?fn=04319 ==. Regarding "what's across the border" into Tyrone, the Discovery and Discoverer maps seem to show only the townland of Mulnahorn.....but I don't have any good maps or information on Tyrone or the other of the Six Counties as I have no interest in them. But the Townland Listings do not show a Mullanderg or any such townland name in Co. Tyrone. === or course their religion would be helpful! There's no point in looking for them in a C of I g/yard/church if they were RC and vice versa. === I think this depends on the years desired. This is a section of the Introduction to Brian Mitchell's "A Guide to Irish Churches and Graveyards": "Generally, Church of Ireland graveyards should be examined irrespective of an ancestor's religion. It was October 1829 before a Catholic cemetery opened in Dublin at Goldenbridge. Prior to the 1820's, owing to the operation of the Penal Laws, both Catholics and Protestants shared the same graveyards. And prior to the Burial Act of 1868, which permitted dissenting ministers to conduct burial services, the Church of Ireland held jurisdiction over funeral services for all Protestants. Right up to the mid-nineteenth century it is not uncommon to find Presbyterian ministers and Methodist preachers buried in a Church of Ireland cemetery." Pete - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Pete Schermerhorn, in the glorious Berkshire hills of western Massachusetts </HTML>

Hi Dave, Not sure that's correct about the townland being in both counties. According to the Griffiths maps, 1911 census as well as the current Monaghan County Council interactive planning map the townland of Mullanderg is wholly in Co. Monaghan. I think the County Council mapping tool is most useful for locating townlands as it outlines their exact boundaries which many other maps do not. Here is the link: http://193.178.1.178/Monaghan_gPlan/ Regards, Seán Dave Hall wrote: > Well Mullanderg townland consists of 146 acres, it is not in Monaghan, > neither is it in Tyrone but it in both. The county border runs through > it. About 130 acres of it are in Monaghan, the rest in Tyrone....It is > approx 1mile from Aughnacloy towards Monaghan and located beteen the N2 > and the A28 roads.

Well a townland is basically an abstract idea, with no definition often decided by natural features or named after people who claimed that bit of land! I've seen a one acre townland in the middle of a big field. The townland name is useful for tracing people down. http://www.geograph.ie/map/tolJ5oOXXJ0oOXJLo-NJFoOXXJfolhXJqoOuOJL5405oM8Mba8tjwubjwMta shows pictures of townlands and if you click on the thumbnails you can see what they look like. Someone was asking about Mullanderg... the thumbnail of it is 6 rows down and 7 across. Just click on thumbnail... You can start also from http://www.geograph.ie/ and then click on the relevant part of Ireland from the interactive Overview Map. Zoom it etc.. On 19:59, Pat & Derek Phillips wrote: > Hello Listers > I am hoping that via this list I can get some explanations of places > etc in County Monaghan as i am as green as the proverbial grass about > Ireland > I have done English research for a long time but only recently has > some information given that has prompted more searching > Could anyone advise how far Killanny is from Carrickmacross and is > Killanny in County Louth or Monaghan > Also what is a Townland ,is it a town or village or parish within a > county ? > Sean your Rooney site is lovely and obviously has been a labor of love > -well done > Cheers Pat Phillips > >

Haven't seen Barber but there are g/stones for Barbour. E.G. "Samuel Barbour, d. 1936, age 81, wife Mgt Elizabeth, d.1949, age 76" Protestant. On 19:59, MARILYN NALLEY wrote: > Can someone give me good websites to trace some Irish relatives. My husbands ancestors are:Henry Francis(sp) Barber, b. 1809, Monaghan, Ireland; Samuel Barber b. 1811, Monaghan, James, b. 1813, Monaghan, Nathaniel, b. 1817 Monaghan, William Barber(hubbys ancestor) b. 1827 Monaghan, Ireland. William died in 1875 is first found in Ontario. All 5 boys left Monaghan and moved to Ontario, Canada. > > >

Well Mullanderg townland consists of 146 acres, it is not in Monaghan, neither is it in Tyrone but it in both. The county border runs through it. About 130 acres of it are in Monaghan, the rest in Tyrone....It is approx 1mile from Aughnacloy towards Monaghan and located beteen the N2 and the A28 roads. or course their religion would be helpful! There's no point in looking for them in a C of I g/yard/church if they were RC and vice versa. On 06/04/2010 08:00, [email protected] wrote: > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Mullanderg/Mullinderg (Dave Hall) > 2. Re: Mullanderg/Mullinderg ([email protected]) > 3. Re: Mullanderg/Mullinderg (Mike Carragher) > > > > To contact the IRL-MONAGHAN list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the IRL-MONAGHAN mailing list, send an email to [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. > Virus Database (VPS): 100405-1, 05/04/2010 > Tested on: 06/04/2010 09:15:35 > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > > >

Hello listers, and especially Dave Hall, I am researching WILLIAMSON and GILLILAND from the Rockcorry area and have been stymied by an excess of data in the early 1800 timeframe. I am attempting to use geography to try to associate families. Church records have early Williamsons born in Donaghanard in Ematris Parish. I have been unable to locate this townland (I think!) in Ordnance maps, early Townland directories and, even, Google. I've had an equal lack of success locating Drumhillagh and Liscomisky which, I believe, are in the same general locale. Would it be possible that Donaghanard became Derrykinard which is where the Williamson and Gilliland families resided later on? Thanking you all in advance for your thoughts. George Gilliland Bonita Springs, Florida, USA

Hi Nancy, Couldn't resist looking. I can't see a "Mullinderg" but there is a "Mullanderg" in the Griffiths Valuation. Go to this website and search for surname "McKenna", first name "Ardel" and county "Monaghan": http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml I chose to look for "Ardel" McKenna so that it was easy to find the records. Once you see the results, you can see the "Original Page" that shows Mullanderg and all the listed residents - no Owen McKenna there, but may be listed under his father. You can also click to see map from that time period (1840s-1860s). Good luck. Mike Carragher Flushing, NY The Carragher World Family Tree http://carragherfamily.org [email protected] A Carragher-Carraher-Caraher One-Name Study [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Nancy Lyons [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [IRL-MONAGHAN] Mullanderg/Mullinderg Hello, I am researching a Monaghan family, Owen McKenna and his wife Mary Kelly. They had a daughter Catherine in 1866. On the Irish civil registration of birth record it gives the registration district as Glaslough, the townland as Mullinderg. Checking in the 1851 Townlands book I only see a Mullanderg in the Civil Parish of Errigal Trough. Before that I looked on Google and came up with a Mullinderg/Emmyvale. I believe Emyvale is a Town. I don't understand the association of the name Emyvale with the "placename" Mullinderg. The civil parish for Emmyvale Town and townland is Donagh. There is a reference to the close proximity of the civil parish of Donagh to the Errigal Trough civil parish in the Northern part of Monaghan. Any help is appreciated to clarify this. Many thanks Nancy Lyons

They are all the one and same place! The Registration district varies from Civil parish etc..Glaslough and Emyvale are villages. Mullinderg isjust a townland, this could be a few fields etc but nothing else. Electoral areas, Poor Law Unions, Civil Parishes, Registration Districts all differ from each other as to where they marked out their boundaries on a map. County boundaries have been altered too over the years too. Parish maps altered to take in townlands from another parish. So, are your related to the Lyons' from Emyvale/Tedavnet/Donagh/Glaslough?? Basically, you are looking for the McKennas of Mullinderg! Of course the religion would be helpful as the where to start... Dave. On 19:59, Nancy Lyons wrote: > Hello, > I am researching a Monaghan family, Owen McKenna and his wife Mary Kelly. They had a daughter Catherine in 1866. On the Irish civil registration of birth record it gives the registration district as Glaslough, the townland as Mullinderg. Checking in the 1851 Townlands book I only see a Mullanderg in the Civil Parish of Errigal Trough. Before that I looked on Google and came up with a Mullinderg/Emmyvale. I believe Emyvale is a Town. I don't understand the association of the name Emyvale with the "placename" Mullinderg. > The civil parish for Emmyvale Town and townland is Donagh. There is a reference to the close proximity of the civil parish of Donagh to the Errigal Trough civil parish in the Northern part of Monaghan. > Any help is appreciated to clarify this. Many thanks > Nancy Lyons > >

Nancy writes: === The civil parish for Emmyvale Town and townland is Donagh. There is a reference to the close proximity of the civil parish of Donagh to the Errigal Trough civil parish in the Northern part of Monaghan. === That's right. Errigal Trough is at the tippie-top of the county, and Donagh is the next civil parish to the south and southeast - with at least a ten-mile-long common border. === Checking in the 1851 Townlands book I only see a Mullanderg in the Civil Parish of Errigal Trough. Before that I looked on Google and came up with a Mullinderg/Emmyvale. I believe Emyvale is a Town. I don't understand the association of the name Emyvale with the "placename" Mullinderg. === Emyvale town is located in Donagh civil parish, but "right on" the border with Errigal Trough, to the north. Mullanderg townland is located in Errigal Trough, a bit more than 3 miles north of Emyvale, along the N 2 national road. It's actually quite close to the County Tyrone border. === On the Irish civil registration of birth record it gives the registration district as Glaslough, the townland as Mullinderg. === I don't really know much about Registration Districts (I don't do any genealogy), but the town of Glaslough is located in Donagh civil parish, about 3 miles SE of Emyvale town. Mullanderg is 6 miles from Glaslough, but I don't see any other suitable candidates for "Mullinderg". Pete .................................................... Pete Schermerhorn, in the glorious Berkshire hills of western Massachusetts </HTML>

Hello, I am researching a Monaghan family, Owen McKenna and his wife Mary Kelly. They had a daughter Catherine in 1866. On the Irish civil registration of birth record it gives the registration district as Glaslough, the townland as Mullinderg. Checking in the 1851 Townlands book I only see a Mullanderg in the Civil Parish of Errigal Trough. Before that I looked on Google and came up with a Mullinderg/Emmyvale. I believe Emyvale is a Town. I don't understand the association of the name Emyvale with the "placename" Mullinderg. The civil parish for Emmyvale Town and townland is Donagh. There is a reference to the close proximity of the civil parish of Donagh to the Errigal Trough civil parish in the Northern part of Monaghan. Any help is appreciated to clarify this. Many thanks Nancy Lyons

Thanks. It's the 1821 lot I'm after. Might go to Dublin and get them. On 04/04/2010 15:54, [email protected] wrote: > That book is available at Abe Books for $104.00 > http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Masterson%2C+Josephine&sts=t&tn=Ireland%3A+1841%2F1851+Census+Abstracts+%28Republic+of&x=67&y=12 > <http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Masterson%2C+Josephine&sts=t&tn=Ireland%3A+1841%2F1851+Census+Abstracts+%28Republic+of&x=67&y=12> > > John Henry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Hall <[email protected]> > To: MONAGHAN <[email protected]> > Sent: Sun, Apr 4, 2010 6:06 am > Subject: Re: [IRL-MONAGHAN] 1821 Census Abstracts > > Hope that includes taxes! > > > > > On 31/03/2010 13:31, AHarney wrote: > > Do not think they are available online. Little from Monaghan is online! > > > > I did read this book some many moons age: > > Masterson, Josephine Ireland: 1841/1851 Census Abstracts (Republic of > > Ireland) published 1999. > > > > You might find this in the library there... Used editions on Amazon are > > 241.00 USD!! > > > > Regards, > > Ann > > > > <Does anyone know if the full transcriptions of Monaghan's 1821 Census > > abstracts are on line anywhere? I know Clogher Record has some of them but > > they are far from complete. Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > --- > > avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 100331-0, 31/03/2010 > > Tested on: 31/03/2010 18:43:57 > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. > > http://www.avast.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > the message

Hope that includes taxes! On 31/03/2010 13:31, AHarney wrote: > Do not think they are available online. Little from Monaghan is online! > > I did read this book some many moons age: > Masterson, Josephine Ireland: 1841/1851 Census Abstracts (Republic of > Ireland) published 1999. > > You might find this in the library there... Used editions on Amazon are > 241.00 USD!! > > Regards, > Ann > > <Does anyone know if the full transcriptions of Monaghan's 1821 Census > abstracts are on line anywhere? I know Clogher Record has some of them but > they are far from complete. Thanks. > > > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. > Virus Database (VPS): 100331-0, 31/03/2010 > Tested on: 31/03/2010 18:43:57 > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > > >