If you look back to the messages on the Famine topic you'll see the time period is the nineteenth century, not the eighteenth. Liam Swords wrote "In Their Own Words, the Famine in North Connacht, 1845-49" in 1999. It was one of thousands of books about the Famine published in the run up to the Famine 150th anniversary and after. Research in Ireland shows there wasn't a Famine in 1879, there was a crop failure. I posted information to Mary Ellen Chambers already about that on the list. In synopsis, when the crop failed people panicked and were in terror that it was a recurrence of the 1845-50 Famine. The crop returned in 1880. The British Government response to the 1879 crop failure was substantially better than it was during the Famine. Although there was some hunger in certain areas, there were minimal deaths from it. The period after the Famine (1845-50) was actually a period of increased prosperity in Ireland because there was one fifth less of the population to feed for one thing. In Mayo original newspaper reports for the nineteenth century are available for example at the Mayo County Library in Castlebar. British Government reports and records are also available, death records for the period, etc. Gavin hasn't used any primary sources at all for his statements nor has he even visited Ireland once to do any kind of historical research here. When I say primary sources I'm referring to original documents from the time periods. Gavin's sources are 13 books and 4 videos, hardly a fingernail full of sources available and not the level of in depth historical research to even be credible. Any research done in Ireland has to include the majority of primary, original sources from the time period, not just snippets from other peoples books. Emigration to England (and Scotland) was in the tens of thousands in the mid and late nineteenth century. It didn't start in the 1940s. If you look at the nineteenth century England census records you can see that. It was far cheaper and easier to go to England than anywhere else. British Government statistics from the time period about the number of Irish born in England show it too. Or read England history books. Oceanstrands --- On Thu, 6/12/08, conaught2 <conaught2@charter.net> wrote: > From: conaught2 <conaught2@charter.net> > Subject: Re: [IRL-MAYO] Assisted 19th Century Emigration, Mayo specific, information > To: irl-mayo@rootsweb.com > Date: Thursday, June 12, 2008, 6:14 PM > An Gorta Mora from 1845-1852 is of course the most > devastating famine > Ireland experienced, although the 1739-41 famine was also > quite > significant . The information in my post referred to > information I have > learned over the years as well as information from Liam > Swords excellent > book as well as other Irish historians. I mentioned > Gavin's article as a > link because it mentioned the 1879 potato failure or > famine, whichever > terminology is preferred. He does list sources. I was > addressing the > question about if there were other famines (potato > failures/blights) > besides An Gorta Mor. The Gavin article would certainly > not compare to your > expertise on the subject which is presented in your > thesis.I was not using > Gavin as an authority, only as a source referring to the > 1879 potato > failure/famine. No part of Irish history can be > "capsulated in an online > link", as you accurately stated. The Irish suffered > greatly during the > potato failure/famine of 1879-1880 as you must have > mentioned in your > thesis. The U.S. sent shipments of food and supplies and > money to aid the > Irish during this time. All the major newspapers in the > U.S. covered the > potato failure/famine of 1879-1880, as well as news media > in other parts of > the word. Ireland continued to lose many to immigration > during this period. > Coupled with the food shortage and harsh conditions of the > country, Michael > Davitt started his National Land League in 1879 to put an > end to the > inequaties of land ownership and the injustice to the > Irish tenant. > > As a result of An Gorta Mor and the follow up crop failure > years, Ireland > continued to lose her young to immigration. My > grandparents were part of > this mass exodus. Grandfather Michael Smith from County > Mayo; Grandmother > Catherine Doherty Smith from Ballyhillion, Malin Head, > County Donegal in > 1889; Grandfather Michael Dowdall from Ballygruby, > Moneymore, County Derry > in 1906 and Grandmother Katherine Flanagan Dowdall from > County Down in 1907. > By the 1940s the immigration trend shifted from America to > England. It has > been wonderful to see as a result of the Celtic Tiger the > Irish returning > home and no longer need to immigrate to find employment. > In Brackloon, > Swinford where my paternal Grandfather was born in 1858 > (immigrated in 1890 > at the age of 32 with his two younger brothers) more and > more people are > returning and building homes. Townlands in the area which > had lost a large > part of their population are now being repopulated. Due to > the world > ecomonic situation and the European Union much has changed > in Ireland during > the last few years.. it is far different than the Ireland I > first saw in > 1972. > > Your thesis would be a wealth of information for the > readers on the list. > Is there a website where your thesis can be viewed? > > Beannachtai, > Margaret (Máiread) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Oceanstrands" > <oceanstrands@yahoo.com> > To: <irl-mayo@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 5:28 PM > Subject: Re: [IRL-MAYO] Assisted 19th Century Emigration, > Mayo > specific,information > > > Research by Irish researchers contradicts what Gavin > says. Gavin is US based so I don't know what original > sources he's used here in Ireland for his research or > what original, primary source records he's had access > to. > > While there were crop failures at various times in the > nineteenth century in Ireland, they aren't considered > by most respected Irish historians as "Famines" > because they weren't widespread like the Famine > (1845-50) was. There are literally thousands of > books published by Irish historians on all facets of > emigration (assisted and othewise), evictions, crop > failures, the land league, etc. > > I did my Masters Thesis on those topics and had over > ten pages of bibliography. It's not something that > can be capsulated in an online link. > > Oceanstrands > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-MAYO-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

My post did not state that immigration to England started in the 1940s, the trend shifted to England. My Flanagan great grandparents were one of those who went to England to work in the 1870s and 1880s but returned to Ireland. I think most people on this list and any Irish list realize that the Irish immigrated over a period of centuries to various countries, i.e. Canada, the U.S., Australia, Scotland and England to name a few. I think the point is being lost that there were other years of famine/ crop failure besides An Gorta Mor, but the period between 1845-1852 was the most devastating and altered the populations of many countries because of the massive immigration due to An Gorta Mor and Ireland lost more than one million souls due to death caused by An Gorta Mor. My purpose was to give some additional information and that has been accomplished. For those who wish to learn more they know that many sources are available to them. When I started doing research on the Internet back in 1995 I emailed a gentleman, who had recruited some volunteers to transcribe the "Index to the Townlands and Towns, Parishes and Baronies of Ireland". Not being familiar with the Internet I inadvertently left my name off the email to the gentleman. When I received a reply from the gentleman he gently let me know that he normally never responded to any email when a person did not sign their name. Of course when I wrote back I mentioned that my name was omitted by accident. I always remembered what Sean Ruad said. Many doing Irish research use his website today, it is IreAtlas which is now kindly maintained by Roger McDonnell, since Sean's death. Beannachtai, Margaret (Máiread)