Ancestry owns rootsweb as of about two years ago. Anything you put on rootsweb automatically goes to ancestry. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David A. Myers" <davidamyers@mindspring.com> To: <irl-longford@rootsweb.com>; <irl-longford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:53 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-LONGFORD] Hughes/Kelagher Marriage Dispensation > > > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irllog/churchrecs.htm > > Hi everybody. It took a while because the greedy fingers of > Ancestry.Com are getting into Rootsweb. (I have uploaded valuable > information with the clear understanding that it is to be available > to the world for FREE. Ancestry has bought out the site and is > charging for my information. That is called "stealing.") > > The site above has church records that go back to the mid > 1700's. I hope it helps. --- print it off before Ancestry trys > to charge you for it. > > David > > > > At 10:00 AM 3/20/2008, ngray.phale@att.net wrote: >>Charlie, >> >>I think you should also consider affinity (in addition to >>consanguinity) as the reason for the need of a >>dispenstation. Perhaps, David, you could give Charlie your thinking on >>that? >> >>The "obli." in the record is probably irrelevant to the facts in the >>case. My reading would be that it is an abbreviation for >>obligata(...), the ending of the full word dependent on the case of >>"dispensation" in the original Latin record. That would simply mean >>that the dispensation was required, and the fact that the >>dispensation is noted has already told the reader that. >> >>Nancy >>-------------- Original message from "king133@juno.com" >><king133@juno.com>: -------------- >> >> >> > Hi Dave, >> > Great to have you as a Latin 'reference'. My father was >> disappointed, to say the >> > least, when I elected to take French rather than Latin in High School. >> > Taking a look at the first marriage ceremony it looks like the >> witnesses were: >> > Patrick Fehely and Anna Reynolds >> > Taking a look at the wording in second marriage ceremony and >> comparing it with >> > the wording in the first ceremony: >> > ...the wording is exactly the same EXCEPT for an addition at the >> END of the >> > record which reads "dispensation(e?) obli??" and >> > ...the witnesses were: Charles M?Cann and Bridget Hughes. >> > >> > I think that the theory that there was a relationship between the >> Kelagher and >> > Hughes family is a strong possibility. I don't know this but I >> could be (GUESS) >> > that Bridget Hughes in the second marriage may have been the >> mother or aunt of >> > James Hughes who knew more than James was 'privy' too concerning family >> > relationships. >> > Yes, conjecture, but very interesting stuff. >> > >> > Thanks for the help, >> > Charlie King >> > gg grandson of James Hughes >> > and Bridget Kelagher of Co. Longford >> > >> > Father David wrote: >> > Hi Charlie, >> > You came to the right guy. I not only speak Latin fluently (with >> > myself), but also taught it in high school (1960's). >> > Patricio is a guy: Patrick. >> > Anna is a gal. >> > Carolo is Charles. Was it Charles McCann? >> > A "casulo/casulum" is a "case" like a "legal case." >> > The dispensation issue would have been the legal case. If there was >> > "newly discovered evidence" after the initial marriage that, without >> > the dispensation, would have rendered the marriage invalid, they >> > would have had to get the dispensation and then do the marriage >> over again. >> > Soooooo... maybe there were two marriage ceremonies, 4 days >> > apart. Probably the second one would have been very simple, just to >> > "correct" the first one, and they used the first two witnesses they >> > could find (or, witnesses whom they could trust not to divulge the >> > original error. ?????) >> > Do you think the groom, James Hughes, could have been related to the >> > second witness, Bridget Hughes? and that she spilled the beans >> > about Bridget Kelagher being their cousin? Such intrigue ! ! >> > David >> > >> > >> > _____________________________________________________________ >> > Click here for the latest quotes on great fixed mortgage loans! >> > >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iiglzQMCe6llnk4hbAfzZ8VAzPyj95r >> >> > nz0VFuDXF8gr1204GY/ >> > >> > >> > >> > ********************************** >> > Longford Genealogy Website: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irllog/ >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > IRL-LONGFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes >> > in the subject and the body of the message >>********************************** >>Longford Genealogy Website: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irllog/ >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>IRL-LONGFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ********************************** > Longford Genealogy Website: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irllog/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LONGFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Go raibh maith agat (thank you)! I will try it today. ----- Original Message ----- Hi I found this on the internet which seems to refer to the family tree program not the extra cd's but thought it might be worth trying "Family Tree Maker on Vista. It is running fine for me after applying this update for people now using Family Tree Maker 2005, 2006 or 16:" http://www.familytreemaker.com/vistaupdate/Default.aspx (Make sure you follow the directions closely!) I hope it works - please post if it does work as I am worrying about replacing my computer and would have the same problems on vista

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irllog/churchrecs.htm Hi everybody. It took a while because the greedy fingers of Ancestry.Com are getting into Rootsweb. (I have uploaded valuable information with the clear understanding that it is to be available to the world for FREE. Ancestry has bought out the site and is charging for my information. That is called "stealing.") The site above has church records that go back to the mid 1700's. I hope it helps. --- print it off before Ancestry trys to charge you for it. David At 10:00 AM 3/20/2008, ngray.phale@att.net wrote: >Charlie, > >I think you should also consider affinity (in addition to >consanguinity) as the reason for the need of a >dispenstation. Perhaps, David, you could give Charlie your thinking on that? > >The "obli." in the record is probably irrelevant to the facts in the >case. My reading would be that it is an abbreviation for >obligata(...), the ending of the full word dependent on the case of >"dispensation" in the original Latin record. That would simply mean >that the dispensation was required, and the fact that the >dispensation is noted has already told the reader that. > >Nancy >-------------- Original message from "king133@juno.com" ><king133@juno.com>: -------------- > > > > Hi Dave, > > Great to have you as a Latin 'reference'. My father was > disappointed, to say the > > least, when I elected to take French rather than Latin in High School. > > Taking a look at the first marriage ceremony it looks like the > witnesses were: > > Patrick Fehely and Anna Reynolds > > Taking a look at the wording in second marriage ceremony and > comparing it with > > the wording in the first ceremony: > > ...the wording is exactly the same EXCEPT for an addition at the > END of the > > record which reads "dispensation(e?) obli??" and > > ...the witnesses were: Charles M?Cann and Bridget Hughes. > > > > I think that the theory that there was a relationship between the > Kelagher and > > Hughes family is a strong possibility. I don't know this but I > could be (GUESS) > > that Bridget Hughes in the second marriage may have been the > mother or aunt of > > James Hughes who knew more than James was 'privy' too concerning family > > relationships. > > Yes, conjecture, but very interesting stuff. > > > > Thanks for the help, > > Charlie King > > gg grandson of James Hughes > > and Bridget Kelagher of Co. Longford > > > > Father David wrote: > > Hi Charlie, > > You came to the right guy. I not only speak Latin fluently (with > > myself), but also taught it in high school (1960's). > > Patricio is a guy: Patrick. > > Anna is a gal. > > Carolo is Charles. Was it Charles McCann? > > A "casulo/casulum" is a "case" like a "legal case." > > The dispensation issue would have been the legal case. If there was > > "newly discovered evidence" after the initial marriage that, without > > the dispensation, would have rendered the marriage invalid, they > > would have had to get the dispensation and then do the marriage > over again. > > Soooooo... maybe there were two marriage ceremonies, 4 days > > apart. Probably the second one would have been very simple, just to > > "correct" the first one, and they used the first two witnesses they > > could find (or, witnesses whom they could trust not to divulge the > > original error. ?????) > > Do you think the groom, James Hughes, could have been related to the > > second witness, Bridget Hughes? and that she spilled the beans > > about Bridget Kelagher being their cousin? Such intrigue ! ! > > David > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > > Click here for the latest quotes on great fixed mortgage loans! > > > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iiglzQMCe6llnk4hbAfzZ8VAzPyj95r > > > nz0VFuDXF8gr1204GY/ > > > > > > > > ********************************** > > Longford Genealogy Website: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irllog/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > IRL-LONGFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message >********************************** >Longford Genealogy Website: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irllog/ > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >IRL-LONGFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Brenda; There is one John MORRIS in the index to County Longford Tithe Applotments by Rymsza it is: NAME TOWNLAND CIVIL PARISH John Morris....Enaghan.....Killoe Charlie King _____________________________________________________________ Click for top financial advice. Reduce debt &amp; save for retirement. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/REAK6ZpP5eBa1G3BAwAziOjay5L0457zNFNU1ia0xP719lapiD5VGc/

Hi Nancy, Good idea. I think that 'affinity' might be a good possibility. I wasn't sure what the meaning of 'obli(?)' was. But if I use my magnifying glass and take a real close look at the work 'obli..' it looks like there might be a 'g' after the 'i' but that is all the letters I make out. So it could very well as you said: 'obligata'. Again, my lack of Latin shows. Thanks for the help, Charlie King Nancy wrote: Charlie, I think you should also consider affinity (in addition to consanguinity) as the reason for the need of a dispensation. Perhaps, David, you could give Charlie your thinking on that? The "obli." in the record is probably irrelevant to the facts in the case. My reading would be that it is an abbreviation for obligata(...), the ending of the full word dependent on the case of "dispensation" in the original Latin record. That would simply mean that the dispensation was required, and the fact that the dispensation is noted has already told the reader that. Nancy _____________________________________________________________ Click for free information on court reporter careers, $100 per hour potential. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/REAK6ZpO9b5XlXDUc6B4fisetbdLBixdOuYFH0Kuf01fF5Z4orHtO8/

Hi David, The only book I have is the Rymsza's 'County Longford Residents Prior to the Famine'. In Rymsza's book I find the following Creamers and Kilbrides: Patrick Creamer....Aughabrack......Granard William Creamer....Aughabrack......Granard William Creamer....Robinstown......Granard Andrew Kilbride....Aughakilmore....Columbkille Bernard Kilbride...Balnacross......Granard Bernard Kilbride...Cartronbore.....Granard Bernard Kilbride...Gallad..........Granard James Kilbride & Co...Cloonart Galbraith......Mohill Mark Kilbride......Boninass.........Mohill Phelim Kilbride....Laugharagh & Brickpark...Street Terence Kilbride...Aughamore Lower...Columbkille Enjoy, Charlie King David wrote: Now, while you and Ellenjane have your books out, could you check up on my family? We are the CREAMERs from Abbeylara, which is a "suburb" of Granard, Co. Longford. We found Bernard CREAMER who married Ann KILBRIDE on 9 Jan, 1783. We also found their son, my great great grandfather, John CREAMER, born 22 Oct. 1786. This was in the Granard church records. But we have no records of what happened to John's siblings, and we have nothing about where they lived. We know nothing about the KILBRIDEs. (We also suspect that they came from somewhere else, because there seems to be only one family) If you check out our website: http://www.creamers.name you will see that we followed John from PEI to the present pretty well, but we have nothing on the rest of the family. Thanks. David _____________________________________________________________ Click for top financial advice. Reduce debt &amp; save for retirement. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/REAK6ZpP5eCFIsdmiKZOXgHqM6SliazWYXTEYq1jvFQFFOZmxAGzPu/

I agree, Nancy. Affinity is a spiritual relationship : god child, god mother/father, etc. The dispensation would be very easy to get, which would make the 4 day turnaround feasible. However, if the bishop was just down the street, consanguinity could be dispensed from about as easily. Sometimes the bishops give the priests the power to grand dispensations. The "oblig." could be an abbreviation. That is why I like to look at the whole register to get an idea of how the priest wrote things. David At 02:59 PM 3/20/2008, you wrote: >Hi Nancy, >Good idea. I think that 'affinity' might be a good possibility. >I wasn't sure what the meaning of 'obli(?)' was. But if I use my >magnifying glass and take a real close look at the work 'obli..' it >looks like there might be a 'g' after the 'i' but that is all the >letters I make out. So it could very well as you said: 'obligata'. >Again, my lack of Latin shows. >Thanks for the help, >Charlie King > >Nancy wrote: >Charlie, > >I think you should also consider affinity (in addition to >consanguinity) as the reason for the need of a >dispensation. Perhaps, David, you could give Charlie your thinking on >that? > >The "obli." in the record is probably irrelevant to the facts in the >case. My reading would be that it is an abbreviation for >obligata(...), the ending of the full word dependent on the case of >"dispensation" in the original Latin record. >That would simply mean that the dispensation was required, and the >fact that the dispensation is noted has already told the reader that. > >Nancy > >_____________________________________________________________ >Click for free information on court reporter careers, $100 per hour potential. >http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/REAK6ZpO9b5XlXDUc6B4fisetbdLBixdOuYFH0Kuf01fF5Z4orHtO8/ > > > >********************************** >Longford Genealogy Website: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irllog/ > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >IRL-LONGFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Charlie King: If I'm not being toooooo pushy - might you take a look-see for the names Fox, Thomas, and Catherine Newman? They are my g-grandparents and all I know is that "they're from Longford." Thanks in advance. If you don't have the time, that's okay, too. Thank you. Celia Ewald > Hi David, > The only book I have is the Rymsza's 'County Longford Residents Prior to > the Famine'. In Rymsza's book I find the following Creamers and > Kilbrides: > > Patrick Creamer....Aughabrack......Granard > William Creamer....Aughabrack......Granard > William Creamer....Robinstown......Granard > Andrew Kilbride....Aughakilmore....Columbkille > Bernard Kilbride...Balnacross......Granard > Bernard Kilbride...Cartronbore.....Granard > Bernard Kilbride...Gallad..........Granard > James Kilbride & Co...Cloonart Galbraith......Mohill > Mark Kilbride......Boninass.........Mohill > Phelim Kilbride....Laugharagh & Brickpark...Street > Terence Kilbride...Aughamore Lower...Columbkille >

Hello all, I wonder if anyone could tell me if there are any records online to search for Births, deaths and marriages in Ireland? It's been a long time since I searched for my Great Granny Brady, and I had to go to LDS at Billingham. I just wondered with things moving on in family history if there had been anything searchable put on line? Thank you June

Hi Charlie: I am looking for my great grand father in that period. His RIC Papers simply said he was from Longford. His name was Peter Henry Morton. I believe his father was John Morton. I would appreciate it, if you could check for the above Mortons, and / or other Mortons. Kindest Regards Jim White Naples, Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: <king133@juno.com> To: <irl-longford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 4:30 PM Subject: [IRL-LONGFORD] Creamers and Kilbrides > Hi David, > The only book I have is the Rymsza's 'County Longford Residents Prior to > the Famine'. In Rymsza's book I find the following Creamers and > Kilbrides: > > Patrick Creamer....Aughabrack......Granard > William Creamer....Aughabrack......Granard > William Creamer....Robinstown......Granard > Andrew Kilbride....Aughakilmore....Columbkille > Bernard Kilbride...Balnacross......Granard > Bernard Kilbride...Cartronbore.....Granard > Bernard Kilbride...Gallad..........Granard > James Kilbride & Co...Cloonart Galbraith......Mohill > Mark Kilbride......Boninass.........Mohill > Phelim Kilbride....Laugharagh & Brickpark...Street > Terence Kilbride...Aughamore Lower...Columbkille > > Enjoy, > Charlie King > > David wrote: > Now, while you and Ellenjane have your books out, could you check up > on my family? We are the CREAMERs from Abbeylara, which is a > "suburb" of Granard, Co. Longford. We found Bernard CREAMER who > married Ann KILBRIDE on 9 Jan, 1783. We also found their son, my > great great grandfather, John CREAMER, born 22 Oct. 1786. This was > in the Granard church records. But we have no records of what > happened to John's siblings, and we have nothing about where they > lived. We know nothing about the KILBRIDEs. (We also suspect that > they came from somewhere else, because there seems to be only one > family) If you check out our > website: http://www.creamers.name you will see that we > followed John from PEI to the present pretty well, but we have > nothing on the rest of the family. Thanks. David > _____________________________________________________________ > Click for top financial advice. Reduce debt &amp; save for retirement. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/REAK6ZpP5eCFIsdmiKZOXgHqM6SliazWYXTEYq1jvFQFFOZmxAGzPu/ > > > > ********************************** > Longford Genealogy Website: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irllog/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LONGFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > __________ NOD32 2965 (20080320) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > >

Since those locations are not in Killoe Parish--civil or Catholic--or even near it, have you considered that the family may have been displaced during the Famine years? That would make a difference in where you should look for additional relevant records. Nancy -------------- Original message from "king133@juno.com" <king133@juno.com>: -------------- > Hi Ellenjane; > That is great information on Father John O'Reilly's parishes. The area of Lower > Esker, Keliter, and Sorans is the Southern Longford area where the townlands > that I have gleaned from the marriage records for witnesses, other Hughes names, > etc. seem to match up nicely with what is in the Rymsza's Tithe Applotment index > and Griffiths. > Lower Esker is where, I think, Bridget Hughes was living in 1854 (Griffiths) > when her husband went to Rhode Island USA to find a job. Keliter is where I > think, James Hughes father, Owen Hughes was living about 1830 (Tithe > Applotments). This is all theory on my part but it is all beginning to make > some sense. The Ftr. O'Reilly data lines up real well with what I am thinking. > Thanks for the help, > Charlie King > gg grandson of James Hughes > and Bridget Kelagher > > > Ellenjane wrote: > In a book that I have Killoe History of a County Longford Parish by Fr. Owen > Devaney there is a section about the parish priest Fr. John O'Reilly > (1825-1860) and the two churches he resided over were in Cullyfad and Enneybegs. > Ennybegs church is St. Mary's. Cullyfad church was St. Oliver's Plunkett's. > Father O'Reilly died in April of 1860 and was replaced by Fr. Bernard O'Reilly. > Also listed in The Tithe Applotments (1826-1834) section of the book there is a > James Hughes in Ennybegs there is also a James listed in OHill. As Hughes is a > very popular name along with James I have no ides if either of these could be > related to you. There were many McCann's listed also but not Casola or anything > sounding like that. There were no Kelagher's listed that I could > find. > In the book by David Leahy County Longford Survivors of the Great Famine which > has an index for the Griffith's Valuation there were some Kelagher's listed > along with many Hughes and McCann's. > In another book by David Leahy County Longford and It's People which has an > index for the 1901 census I find no Kelagher's but Hughes and McCann. > Good Luck in your search hope this has been of some help. > Ellenjane > > _____________________________________________________________ > Turn your passion into a profession. Click here to find a film school near you. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iieWx7LiHIW41T5Ph3Kx7oYQfwXCEws > C4S4DfGeJzoiDqLdak/ > > > > ********************************** > Longford Genealogy Website: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irllog/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LONGFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Charlie, I think you should also consider affinity (in addition to consanguinity) as the reason for the need of a dispenstation. Perhaps, David, you could give Charlie your thinking on that? The "obli." in the record is probably irrelevant to the facts in the case. My reading would be that it is an abbreviation for obligata(...), the ending of the full word dependent on the case of "dispensation" in the original Latin record. That would simply mean that the dispensation was required, and the fact that the dispensation is noted has already told the reader that. Nancy -------------- Original message from "king133@juno.com" <king133@juno.com>: -------------- > Hi Dave, > Great to have you as a Latin 'reference'. My father was disappointed, to say the > least, when I elected to take French rather than Latin in High School. > Taking a look at the first marriage ceremony it looks like the witnesses were: > Patrick Fehely and Anna Reynolds > Taking a look at the wording in second marriage ceremony and comparing it with > the wording in the first ceremony: > ...the wording is exactly the same EXCEPT for an addition at the END of the > record which reads "dispensation(e?) obli??" and > ...the witnesses were: Charles M?Cann and Bridget Hughes. > > I think that the theory that there was a relationship between the Kelagher and > Hughes family is a strong possibility. I don't know this but I could be (GUESS) > that Bridget Hughes in the second marriage may have been the mother or aunt of > James Hughes who knew more than James was 'privy' too concerning family > relationships. > Yes, conjecture, but very interesting stuff. > > Thanks for the help, > Charlie King > gg grandson of James Hughes > and Bridget Kelagher of Co. Longford > > Father David wrote: > Hi Charlie, > You came to the right guy. I not only speak Latin fluently (with > myself), but also taught it in high school (1960's). > Patricio is a guy: Patrick. > Anna is a gal. > Carolo is Charles. Was it Charles McCann? > A "casulo/casulum" is a "case" like a "legal case." > The dispensation issue would have been the legal case. If there was > "newly discovered evidence" after the initial marriage that, without > the dispensation, would have rendered the marriage invalid, they > would have had to get the dispensation and then do the marriage over again. > Soooooo... maybe there were two marriage ceremonies, 4 days > apart. Probably the second one would have been very simple, just to > "correct" the first one, and they used the first two witnesses they > could find (or, witnesses whom they could trust not to divulge the > original error. ?????) > Do you think the groom, James Hughes, could have been related to the > second witness, Bridget Hughes? and that she spilled the beans > about Bridget Kelagher being their cousin? Such intrigue ! ! > David > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Click here for the latest quotes on great fixed mortgage loans! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iiglzQMCe6llnk4hbAfzZ8VAzPyj95r > nz0VFuDXF8gr1204GY/ > > > > ********************************** > Longford Genealogy Website: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irllog/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LONGFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Margaret, The name I am researching in Longford is Morris. My ggg grandfather was called John Morris and was born in 1800 in Longford. Unfortunately that is all I know. I think he was probably a Catholic but I'm not totally sure. He grew up to be a whipmaker but I don't know if that was a family trade. Thank you very much for your help. Brenda -----Original Message----- From: irl-longford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-longford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of conaught2 Sent: 20 March 2008 12:40 To: irl-longford@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-LONGFORD] Census question Hi Brenda, Many of the older records no longer exist. To answer your earlier question about whether your relative was referring to Longford the town or county, it is difficult to say. From what I have found over the years, is that immigrants usually listed the largest town closest to their own townland. My Grandfather Smith was born in 1858 in Brackloon, Swinford, County Mayo, but yet he told his children he was from Swinford. My Grandfather Dowdall (born 1884) from County Derry was very precise and made his children learn his address - Ballygruby, Moneymore, County Derry, Irleand. What are the names you are researching? The names can be checked against the Griffith's Valuation Index to see what area they came from, hopefully it isn't a name that is located throughout County Longford. "Irish Records", by James Ryan lists each county and what records are available for that county. For church records he divides the information by religions and then lists the years the records are available and where they are located. Some church records are available through the National Library and the LDS Family History Center, while others are still under local control. It is intereseting that David was able to obtain church records from the 1780s and 1790s because in Ryan's book for the Civil Parish of Abbeylara he states the earliest marriage records are from 1855 and for births it is 1822. Previously I thought the information regarding the dates of the records were accurate but David's information gives us hope that if we check the individual parish church we just might get lucky. Most of the census records along with many other irreplaceable records were destroyed in the Four Courts explosion and fire in 1922. The Griffith's Valuation is not a census but is used as a substitute for the mid 1800s. The earliest census is Pender's 1659 Census but it doesn't list everyone. There are various other records for various areas of Longford. The 1796 Spinning Wheel Premium List doesn't list the townlands but the parish. All those who planted 1 acre or more of Flax was given a spinning wheel. The list tells how many spinning wheels the family was given (it was determined by how many acres of flax was planted). Hopefully with the surname it can be determined which parish your relative came from. Beannachtai, Margaret (Máiread) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bren" <bren@sussexbythesea.demon.co.uk> To: <irl-longford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 3:00 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-LONGFORD] Census question > Thanks. Can you tell me where I can find records of births in Longford > around 1800, and also any census's? > > Brenda > > I have a general question that hopefully all those that know about Ireland > better than I do will be able to answer! One of my ancestors listed his > birth place on the England 1861 census as "Ireland, Longford". What I > would > like to know is does this mean the town of Longford or is it more likely > to > mean the county? Thanks for your help. > > ********************************** Longford Genealogy Website: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irllog/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-LONGFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 19/03/2008 09:54 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 19/03/2008 09:54

HI Brenda, I have to apologize because I can't look the information up today. My computer was on it's last leg and it had to be replaced. I have been hearing about the nightmare of the new operating system Vista and have tried to postpone getting the new computer. Unfortunately I have to do the income tax and had to get a new one. My daughter has been transferring files etc all week and it is a MAJOR HEADACHE!. Most of the software on the old computer will not work on the new one because of Vista. I purchased the new version of Family Tree Maker but now the CDs I have for it won't work. The Griffith's Valuation, Tithes Applotment, Spinning Wheel Premium List and many more CDs are not working. I have to call and have a horrible feeling I will have to replace them all thanks to Bill Gates and Vista. It will take about a week before I can get you the information. Hopefully somebody else on the list might have the Griffith's Valuation Index CD by Broderbund. Beannachtai, Margaret (Máiread) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bren" <bren@sussexbythesea.demon.co.uk> To: <irl-longford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-LONGFORD] Census question Hi Margaret, The name I am researching in Longford is Morris. My ggg grandfather was called John Morris and was born in 1800 in Longford. Unfortunately that is all I know. I think he was probably a Catholic but I'm not totally sure. He grew up to be a whipmaker but I don't know if that was a family trade. Thank you very much for your help. Brenda -----Original Message----- From: irl-longford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-longford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of conaught2 Sent: 20 March 2008 12:40 To: irl-longford@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-LONGFORD] Census question Hi Brenda, Many of the older records no longer exist. To answer your earlier question about whether your relative was referring to Longford the town or county, it is difficult to say. From what I have found over the years, is that immigrants usually listed the largest town closest to their own townland. My Grandfather Smith was born in 1858 in Brackloon, Swinford, County Mayo, but yet he told his children he was from Swinford. My Grandfather Dowdall (born 1884) from County Derry was very precise and made his children learn his address - Ballygruby, Moneymore, County Derry, Irleand. What are the names you are researching? The names can be checked against the Griffith's Valuation Index to see what area they came from, hopefully it isn't a name that is located throughout County Longford. "Irish Records", by James Ryan lists each county and what records are available for that county. For church records he divides the information by religions and then lists the years the records are available and where they are located. Some church records are available through the National Library and the LDS Family History Center, while others are still under local control. It is intereseting that David was able to obtain church records from the 1780s and 1790s because in Ryan's book for the Civil Parish of Abbeylara he states the earliest marriage records are from 1855 and for births it is 1822. Previously I thought the information regarding the dates of the records were accurate but David's information gives us hope that if we check the individual parish church we just might get lucky. Most of the census records along with many other irreplaceable records were destroyed in the Four Courts explosion and fire in 1922. The Griffith's Valuation is not a census but is used as a substitute for the mid 1800s. The earliest census is Pender's 1659 Census but it doesn't list everyone. There are various other records for various areas of Longford. The 1796 Spinning Wheel Premium List doesn't list the townlands but the parish. All those who planted 1 acre or more of Flax was given a spinning wheel. The list tells how many spinning wheels the family was given (it was determined by how many acres of flax was planted). Hopefully with the surname it can be determined which parish your relative came from. Beannachtai, Margaret (Máiread) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bren" <bren@sussexbythesea.demon.co.uk> To: <irl-longford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 3:00 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-LONGFORD] Census question > Thanks. Can you tell me where I can find records of births in Longford > around 1800, and also any census's? > > Brenda > > I have a general question that hopefully all those that know about Ireland > better than I do will be able to answer! One of my ancestors listed his > birth place on the England 1861 census as "Ireland, Longford". What I > would > like to know is does this mean the town of Longford or is it more likely > to > mean the county? Thanks for your help. > > ********************************** Longford Genealogy Website: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irllog/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-LONGFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 19/03/2008 09:54 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 19/03/2008 09:54 ********************************** Longford Genealogy Website: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irllog/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-LONGFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

After reading al the posts about census for Longford I have a question. I have a copy of the army registration for my grandmother's brother. In the USA. The place of birth listed says Longford. Does that mean county or town? He was born around 1876 or 1878. His name is John Greer. Mother Katie Kelly Father John Greer sisters Mary and Annie. Annie being my grandmother. I don't know if there are other siblings. Where do you think they would be listed. As far as I know they were Catholics. Eliz **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)

Hi Dave, Great to have you as a Latin 'reference'. My father was disappointed, to say the least, when I elected to take French rather than Latin in High School. Taking a look at the first marriage ceremony it looks like the witnesses were: Patrick Fehely and Anna Reynolds Taking a look at the wording in second marriage ceremony and comparing it with the wording in the first ceremony: ...the wording is exactly the same EXCEPT for an addition at the END of the record which reads "dispensation(e?) obli??" and ...the witnesses were: Charles M?Cann and Bridget Hughes. I think that the theory that there was a relationship between the Kelagher and Hughes family is a strong possibility. I don't know this but I could be (GUESS) that Bridget Hughes in the second marriage may have been the mother or aunt of James Hughes who knew more than James was 'privy' too concerning family relationships. Yes, conjecture, but very interesting stuff. Thanks for the help, Charlie King gg grandson of James Hughes and Bridget Kelagher of Co. Longford Father David wrote: Hi Charlie, You came to the right guy. I not only speak Latin fluently (with myself), but also taught it in high school (1960's). Patricio is a guy: Patrick. Anna is a gal. Carolo is Charles. Was it Charles McCann? A "casulo/casulum" is a "case" like a "legal case." The dispensation issue would have been the legal case. If there was "newly discovered evidence" after the initial marriage that, without the dispensation, would have rendered the marriage invalid, they would have had to get the dispensation and then do the marriage over again. Soooooo... maybe there were two marriage ceremonies, 4 days apart. Probably the second one would have been very simple, just to "correct" the first one, and they used the first two witnesses they could find (or, witnesses whom they could trust not to divulge the original error. ?????) Do you think the groom, James Hughes, could have been related to the second witness, Bridget Hughes? and that she spilled the beans about Bridget Kelagher being their cousin? Such intrigue ! ! David _____________________________________________________________ Click here for the latest quotes on great fixed mortgage loans! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iiglzQMCe6llnk4hbAfzZ8VAzPyj95rnz0VFuDXF8gr1204GY/

Hi Ellenjane; That is great information on Father John O'Reilly's parishes. The area of Lower Esker, Keliter, and Sorans is the Southern Longford area where the townlands that I have gleaned from the marriage records for witnesses, other Hughes names, etc. seem to match up nicely with what is in the Rymsza's Tithe Applotment index and Griffiths. Lower Esker is where, I think, Bridget Hughes was living in 1854 (Griffiths) when her husband went to Rhode Island USA to find a job. Keliter is where I think, James Hughes father, Owen Hughes was living about 1830 (Tithe Applotments). This is all theory on my part but it is all beginning to make some sense. The Ftr. O'Reilly data lines up real well with what I am thinking. Thanks for the help, Charlie King gg grandson of James Hughes and Bridget Kelagher Ellenjane wrote: In a book that I have Killoe History of a County Longford Parish by Fr. Owen Devaney there is a section about the parish priest Fr. John O'Reilly (1825-1860) and the two churches he resided over were in Cullyfad and Enneybegs. Ennybegs church is St. Mary's. Cullyfad church was St. Oliver's Plunkett's. Father O'Reilly died in April of 1860 and was replaced by Fr. Bernard O'Reilly. Also listed in The Tithe Applotments (1826-1834) section of the book there is a James Hughes in Ennybegs there is also a James listed in OHill. As Hughes is a very popular name along with James I have no ides if either of these could be related to you. There were many McCann's listed also but not Casola or anything sounding like that. There were no Kelagher's listed that I could find. In the book by David Leahy County Longford Survivors of the Great Famine which has an index for the Griffith's Valuation there were some Kelagher's listed along with many Hughes and McCann's. In another book by David Leahy County Longford and It's People which has an index for the 1901 census I find no Kelagher's but Hughes and McCann. Good Luck in your search hope this has been of some help. Ellenjane _____________________________________________________________ Turn your passion into a profession. Click here to find a film school near you. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iieWx7LiHIW41T5Ph3Kx7oYQfwXCEwsC4S4DfGeJzoiDqLdak/

Thanks. Can you tell me where I can find records of births in Longford around 1800, and also any census's? Regards, Brenda -----Original Message----- From: irl-longford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-longford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Gareth & Michelle Thomas Sent: 19 March 2008 18:32 To: irl-longford@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-LONGFORD] Census question It could mean either, Longford is a very small county within Eire, so it is best to check further if at all possible. Regards Gareth -----Original Message----- From: irl-longford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-longford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bren Sent: 19 March 2008 18:26 To: IRL-LONGFORD@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-LONGFORD] Census question I have a general question that hopefully all those that know about Ireland better than I do will be able to answer! One of my ancestors listed his birth place on the England 1861 census as "Ireland, Longford". What I would like to know is does this mean the town of Longford or is it more likely to mean the county? Thanks for your help. Brenda No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 19/03/2008 09:54 ********************************** Longford Genealogy Website: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irllog/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-LONGFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ********************************** Longford Genealogy Website: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irllog/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-LONGFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 19/03/2008 09:54 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 19/03/2008 09:54

Hi Brenda, Many of the older records no longer exist. To answer your earlier question about whether your relative was referring to Longford the town or county, it is difficult to say. From what I have found over the years, is that immigrants usually listed the largest town closest to their own townland. My Grandfather Smith was born in 1858 in Brackloon, Swinford, County Mayo, but yet he told his children he was from Swinford. My Grandfather Dowdall (born 1884) from County Derry was very precise and made his children learn his address - Ballygruby, Moneymore, County Derry, Irleand. What are the names you are researching? The names can be checked against the Griffith's Valuation Index to see what area they came from, hopefully it isn't a name that is located throughout County Longford. "Irish Records", by James Ryan lists each county and what records are available for that county. For church records he divides the information by religions and then lists the years the records are available and where they are located. Some church records are available through the National Library and the LDS Family History Center, while others are still under local control. It is intereseting that David was able to obtain church records from the 1780s and 1790s because in Ryan's book for the Civil Parish of Abbeylara he states the earliest marriage records are from 1855 and for births it is 1822. Previously I thought the information regarding the dates of the records were accurate but David's information gives us hope that if we check the individual parish church we just might get lucky. Most of the census records along with many other irreplaceable records were destroyed in the Four Courts explosion and fire in 1922. The Griffith's Valuation is not a census but is used as a substitute for the mid 1800s. The earliest census is Pender's 1659 Census but it doesn't list everyone. There are various other records for various areas of Longford. The 1796 Spinning Wheel Premium List doesn't list the townlands but the parish. All those who planted 1 acre or more of Flax was given a spinning wheel. The list tells how many spinning wheels the family was given (it was determined by how many acres of flax was planted). Hopefully with the surname it can be determined which parish your relative came from. Beannachtai, Margaret (Máiread) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bren" <bren@sussexbythesea.demon.co.uk> To: <irl-longford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 3:00 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-LONGFORD] Census question > Thanks. Can you tell me where I can find records of births in Longford > around 1800, and also any census's? > > Brenda > > I have a general question that hopefully all those that know about Ireland > better than I do will be able to answer! One of my ancestors listed his > birth place on the England 1861 census as "Ireland, Longford". What I > would > like to know is does this mean the town of Longford or is it more likely > to > mean the county? Thanks for your help. > >

Dear David, Hopefully you will be able to find some reference to your family in the book. Another source are the estate papers but I have never had the time to look at them. The estate records can only be found as far as I know in Belfast or Dublin, not sure if the LDS Family History Centers microfilmed the estate papers. There is another County Longford Journal - Ardagh & Clonmacnoise Historical Journal (1926-51) Ireland National Library ref. 94131 t 1 There is also the 1834 Granard full census in Catholic registers, National Library Pos. 4237 This information was taken from "Tracing Your Irish Ancestors" by John Grenham. You were fortunate to find the early church records. The parishes my four Irish grandparents came from don't have records that old. Beannachtai, Margaret (Máiread)