Please take time and change your subject lines when replying to others. This: Re: [LONGFORD] Re: IRL-LONGFORD-D Digest V04 #191 Needs to change to something more helpful. A Surname for instance. Or Surname and Townland. eg. REILLY - Clonbroney. And if the subject changes over time from one Surname to another then it is a good idea to update your subject line. People reading the Digest versions can't tell what the topic is and those scanning the list archives will also skip reading posts where the subject line is not helpful. While I am preaching <G> I wanted to mention the need for good subject lines when posting on Query Boards. Always put at the very least your surname when you post on a Genealogy Query Board. Better still is a Surname and first name or 2 Surnames. Husband and wife. Subject lines help you find others who share your interests. I manage a few of these and see subjects like "Research" or "My Family". These people are likely to miss getting the help they want. Thanks, Christina Listowner IRL-LONGFORD

We have a couple of misconceptions here. 1. Universities were nothing more than a collection of "colleges" and colleges have been around for quite some time and long before the concept reached the land of the Scottii ["the Irish" who were the first Celtic settlers from the continent to the island during the stone age as opposed to the Iberian Celts who arrived 500 years later from what is now Spain]. Socrates attended a scholarium or a magistratum from which the word "university" is derived. 2. Secondly Elizabeth I re-established the olde college in Dublin and called it Trinity College of Dublin in the 17th century initially yes for Anglicans and later Presbyterians a great many of whom were native Irish as members of the Reformation and later again for Catholics. There were social classes in each group and lucky for north America and Australia those with money and an education were the most likely to leave first. The less fortunate stayed and in a great many cases simply went to England to work on the farms and in the mills. It was this group that lead to some rather interesting and less fortunate tales about the poorer Irish that permeates literature to this day. The exact same problematic level of obtaining an education in Scotland was the same. The Protestant Reformation hit everyone at approximately the same time. In fact it was the mirror image on the continent but in many cases in reverse. If anyone was "big" on education is was the Irish and their collegial monks who were responsible for the re-introduction of Christianity back into the Continent. I'd be might leery about any misconception as to the education of the Irish as to being less than anywhere else. There were almost just as many Irish that joined the Reformation as any where else. And like anywhere else there was an economic hurdle as well that effected both groups. In fact more Irish obtained their BA's than did the Scots and for quite some time. Your sweeping and obviously un-educated statements about the Irish in the particular and specific are to be regretted. Lastly, and unlike the poor Irish classes on both sides who lived in simple little stone houses with straw roofs and dirt floors, that they would rather migrate than starve, it was the poor Scots including the Gordons, a great many who lived in sod huts, some at ground level, who were simply cleared off the lands [i.e. deported to such an extent that whole Clans now only exist in north America] by the "lairds of the land" few of whom were English to make way for the raising of large herds of sheep who were considered more valuable than the simple minded highlanders and lowlanders. Some of the smarter ones simply retraced their Irish roots and went home, bag pipe and all to, yep you guessed it, to Ireland. Eric Macklin in Trinitas omnium Dublin/Toronto From: "Sandra Gordon" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 6:43 PM Subject: [NIR-DOWN] Education My understanding is that the Scots were very "big" on education. The first Universities were established in Scotland. I can't give dates off the top of my head, but I will check this tomorrow. I do know that my G-Grandfather, born in 1840, was well educated, as were his siblings in Co. Down. I have family letters that indicate they had a command of the language and their penmanship was beautiful. My G-Grandfather's brother finished school and served a five year apprenticeship. He then returned to school for a higher education - which was rare. From the many books I've read about the Scots-Irish in America, they all indicate that they were more highly educated than the average immigrant to the U.S. Always be leery of equating the Scots in Ireland from the native Irish. The native Irish did not have the same freedoms as the Scots. Their education would be very different from the Scots who settled in North Ireland. The native Irish had a much harder time under British rule than the Scots. Sandra

Hi Dave, I noticed the name Gertrude in your family. I have a Gertrude E. Byrne born in Longford but I haven't as yet been able to tie her to anyone on the list. I think her father was Patrick Byrne. Her brother was John Byrne who moved to the Birmingham area of England. It's a long shot but there may be a connection as there are not too many Gertrude first names coming from Longford as I know. If anyone else on the list has a Gertrude from Longford in there family name between before1880, would you be kind enough to drop me a line. [email protected] All the Best, Paul Broughton

Ernie, Our family is Creamer. About 1900 a bunch of them left the Maine-New Brunswick area and went to the Lowell, MA area. We are originally from the Granard, Longford area. Dave Myers, Guadalupe, AZ grandson of Mary Gertrude "Minnie" Creamer. At 02:05 PM 9/5/2004, you wrote: >Some of them went to the Lowell area about 1900, they opened a leather >company called O.H. Dugan, there is one decendant living in Wellsley by the >same name, he is the great grandson of the original................the rest >stayed in Maine. But somewhere I saw Longford mentioned and wanted to check >it out...... >ernie dugan > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 4:55 PM >Subject: Re: [LONGFORD] Re: IRL-LONGFORD-D Digest V04 #191 > > > > In a message dated 9/5/2004 9:38:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > > For some reason I can not open any of your attachments.........can you > > > help? > > > I am Ernie Dugan and looking for info on any Dugan (Duggan) who may have > > > ties to Longford.......Thanks for your consideration.............. > > > > > > > attchments dont go thru rootsweb > > did your duggans come to mass. maybe chelsea? > > > > > > Jim Denning > > using dna to connect > > >Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinnin >g- > > >carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mch >ug > > >h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop >,M > > a.-sprague- and ever growing list > > > > > > > > ==== IRL-LONGFORD Mailing List ==== > > To contact the listowner send an email to: > > [email protected] > > > > > > > >==== IRL-LONGFORD Mailing List ==== >~God is good, but never dance in a small boat.~

my line of dugans came to Canada first, Maine second. From Maine to Mass. the line that went to Mass was started by owen henry dugan. He would be a brother to my g-grandfather john owen dugan ernie......... ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [LONGFORD] Re: IRL-LONGFORD-D Digest V04 #191 > In a message dated 9/5/2004 5:04:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Some of them went to the Lowell area about 1900, they opened a leather > > company called O.H. Dugan, there is one decendant living in Wellsley by the > > same name, he is the great grandson of the original................the rest > > stayed in Maine. But somewhere I saw Longford mentioned and wanted to check > > it out...... > > > > ok can you give me people because chelsea had tons of dugans with longford > ties way back to 1820 and they married alot of dennings > Jim Denning > using dna to connect > Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinnin g- > carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mch ug > h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop ,M > a.-sprague- and ever growing list > > > > ==== IRL-LONGFORD Mailing List ==== > ~An old broom knows the dirty corners best.~ > >

In a message dated 9/5/2004 5:04:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > > Some of them went to the Lowell area about 1900, they opened a leather > company called O.H. Dugan, there is one decendant living in Wellsley by the > same name, he is the great grandson of the original................the rest > stayed in Maine. But somewhere I saw Longford mentioned and wanted to check > it out...... > ok can you give me people because chelsea had tons of dugans with longford ties way back to 1820 and they married alot of dennings Jim Denning using dna to connect Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinning- carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mchug h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop,M a.-sprague- and ever growing list

Some of them went to the Lowell area about 1900, they opened a leather company called O.H. Dugan, there is one decendant living in Wellsley by the same name, he is the great grandson of the original................the rest stayed in Maine. But somewhere I saw Longford mentioned and wanted to check it out...... ernie dugan ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [LONGFORD] Re: IRL-LONGFORD-D Digest V04 #191 > In a message dated 9/5/2004 9:38:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > For some reason I can not open any of your attachments.........can you > > help? > > I am Ernie Dugan and looking for info on any Dugan (Duggan) who may have > > ties to Longford.......Thanks for your consideration.............. > > > > attchments dont go thru rootsweb > did your duggans come to mass. maybe chelsea? > > > Jim Denning > using dna to connect > Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinnin g- > carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mch ug > h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop ,M > a.-sprague- and ever growing list > > > > ==== IRL-LONGFORD Mailing List ==== > To contact the listowner send an email to: > [email protected] > >

In a message dated 9/5/2004 9:38:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > > For some reason I can not open any of your attachments.........can you > help? > I am Ernie Dugan and looking for info on any Dugan (Duggan) who may have > ties to Longford.......Thanks for your consideration.............. > attchments dont go thru rootsweb did your duggans come to mass. maybe chelsea? Jim Denning using dna to connect Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinning- carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mchug h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop,M a.-sprague- and ever growing list

Ernie, You many find that you cannot open attachments in web based email. That is if you read it on the web rather than having it download to your computer. You might be better off taking the regular version of the list where you get every email. I have noticed that I can't read my digests at work where I use a webmail site to check my mail. Let me know if you would like to try this and I will switch you. Christina

For some reason I can not open any of your attachments.........can you help? I am Ernie Dugan and looking for info on any Dugan (Duggan) who may have ties to Longford.......Thanks for your consideration.............. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 4:00 AM Subject: IRL-LONGFORD-D Digest V04 #191

I have updated the Ireland Books section of my website which included the Ireland Parish History Books, Local History Books, Genealogy Books, History Books, Ireland Fiction, etc. Many, where appropriate, have lookup volunteers. You can access the links to these webpages by going to the URL below my name. On my homepage, under Ireland, click on Ireland Books. The links are near the bottom of the Ireland Book Discussion Mailing List webpage. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com All outgoing mail virus free, scanned by Norton

all names changes to protect the inocent and can be used by and adapted for all dna project managers QUOTE][i]Originally posted by [/i] [B]Roy: We have one person in our Farrell family surname project who not only does not carry the Farrell surname, but is the product of two name changes and adoptions. I did ask him in some detail why he thought he was a Farrell, and he was able to satisfy me that he probably is a Farrell by direct male line descent so he is in. Ordinarily I wouldn't care, but if he wasn't a Farrell at all, his results would skew the project, and we have enough different lines as it is, just limiting to Farrell surnames. We are waiting for his results right now. J Denning Farrell Surname Project [/B][/QUOTE] Lets forget the fact that all names didnt start in one time slot and space and cover everyone what we have here is a tree this tree grew for xxxxx years with out names just sons of then names came and for whatever reasons branches in the tree took names. kind of like splicing in branches . the gardener was quite adept at splicing you may have a elm trunk but the branches are oak maple and spruce. not to be out done the gardiner did apple cherry even orange. you may not like it it may seem alittle unseemly but he did alot of these strange conglomerants. when pushed for a name one he names Denning another Farrell and yet another Carroll. in time as this treee grew all the splices took some became more prosperous then others but they all added character and special qualities unexpeced in the beginning , Some of these where from experiances in locations other interactions with other trees many found different qualities in the same trees did better in different suroundings in northern climate s the elm maple and apples did well. in southern areas oranges cherries flourished xxxx amount of years latter the seeds are the same no matter where. the tree grows and changes but the base qualities inserted by the gardiner remain. like all things it adapt and reacts but its still the Farrell tree we can only sit back and admire it and its survivability The use of DNA is to establish which branch you are on what part of the tree Jim Denning Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinning- carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mchug h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop,M a.-sprague- and ever growing list

Hello, Have you lost a cousin who emigrated to America? They're probably looking for you too. The FARRELL DNA Project is a good genealogical tool to help find that long lost branch of the family. We have members who can track their lineage back to Co. Lietrim, Co.Longford, and Co. Cavan, Co.Meath and the world If you are a male, surnamed FARRELL DNA Project , or a female with a brother, cousin, uncle, or father surnamed FARRELL or any of the variant spellings I invite you to join our DNA Surname Project. The testing is simple--just a brushing of the inside of the cheeks with a special kit. No need to have blood drawn or go to a doctor's office--easily done at home. If you are interested please contact me at [email protected] or you may go to Family Tree DNA at http://www.familytreedna.com. The project is listed under the spelling FARRELL DNA Project . We have 3 members, not all but most living in America, and we would like to have you participate. Thank you, Jim Denning Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinning- carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mchug h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop,M a.-sprague- and ever growing list

I didn't finish the last email... If anyone wants to know if a townland is on this film - go to http://www.familysearch.org/ and Then click on Library. Then Family History Library Catalog. Under Film/Fiche put the film number 0846677. Then you will pull up the locations on this film. Christina

Hi - The 1901 census for Shrule Parish is finished. That is - it is finished as far as what is on the film we are transcribing from. Ballymahon Town was split into 4 "pages". http://www.rootsweb.com/~irllog/census/index.htm Thanks to Sean Farrell, Niall Corr, Kathy Snowberger, Christina Dowd and Bill Morris for their great efforts. We will be doing some more in the coming weeks. If anyone wants to know if a townland is on this film - go to www.familysearch.org and then click on Library. Under Film/Fiche search put Regards, Christina

Good morning everyone: I think we should all take a moment and thank all of our web hosts on the IRL-Irish Roots crew. Without them our efforts would be just that much more difficult, if not impossible. So keep up the good, excuse me, excellent work including those long suffering folks that post some rather excellent self help pages helping us sift through what's left of Irish documents [post 1922] and the re-assembling of new ones. With Ene-clann in the background along with Trinity College 2004-05 looks like some break through material is just around the corner. Many many thanks. Eric Macklin Trinity College University of Toronto

I thank Ray Whittinger for providing images of old documents from the 1700s and 1800s in Leitrim. The documents are mainly Military Musters, but also contain a couple of census records and other interesting miscl. documents. Thanks Ray http://www.rootsweb.com/~irllet/RayWhittinger/Index.htm Donald O'Còllàùgh/O'Còllàìgh Kelly

Eric at [email protected] writes: << Q: Is Eneclann Gaelic for something ?? Q: Does anyone have an e-mail address for this crew at Trinity College? >> Eric, Their website at >> www.eneclann.ie << gives the answers to both these questions....plus a lot more <gr>. Pete Schermerhorn, in the glorious Berkshire hills of western Massachusetts

For you who are checking this out it is a Project for the towns of Chelsea,Revere [No. Chelsea ,Prattsville,]and Winthrop Massachusetts.We are doing this in conjuction with the [email protected] mailing list. It is a special list which you can see the archives from at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MACHELSEA/We will cover any name found in the three towns. But the idea is that you have records of someone from the towns.It is designed to confirm the relationships between famlies of Chelsea,Revere and Winthrop Ma. The list members have many connections already. The idea is to also establish links we do not have yet on paper . Giving you a better conception of what paper trails will be beneficial to follow Suppose you are a MCGOVERN who is attached by Paper to the HOLLAND,MILTON ,HENDERSONs. you should be able to prove your relationship with the HOLLAND HENDERSON people on the list. Now even with the results the list has given us so far. We can go furthur The [email protected] mailing list is interested in expanding its goal of achieving the genealogy of Chelsea,Winthrop,Revere [No.Chelsea Prattsville] Ma.. these three towns have served as a haven and resting place for people who have migrated from other lands to a new one. Ever since its commission it has served that purpose. These people interacted and this is an attempt to show that story. This url is the archives http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MACHELSEA/ Looking thru the names you can see the diversity. We have tied many small families into clans. Some into larger family groups. Hopefully the DNA will allow us to move one step closer to solving the puzzles the intention is to use MTDNA besides the YDNA If you have questions about your heritage, Family Tree DNA has the Y-DNA and mtDNA tests that in conjuction with the largest comparative databases of their kind may provide clues leading to the answer to this and many other questions Y-Chromosome - DNA Tests MTDNA tests the mtDNA of females and the female lineage of males (HVR1). Results are placed in our mtDNA database and when 2 people show the same identical polymorphism, we will inform both parties if you have both signed the FTDNA Release Form. The customer receives a report generally describing mtDNA, the meaning of polymorphism, your differences from the Cambridge Reference Sequence and the meaning of probability between matches. Ethnic and Geographic Origins: this test also allows you to identify your ethnic and geographic origins, both recent and far distant. Among other features, this test will also be able to indicate your Native-American Ancestry and which of the 5 major groups that settled in the Americans you are most likely to be descended from. It can also describe African Ancestry as well as other ethnic origins Its this tool which should help indicate who is repated to who in chelsea. It will have the Y DNA TEST FOR MALES this does show direct Ancestors All Y-DNA tests allow you to identify your ethnic and geographic origins, both recent and far distant on your direct male descending line. Among others, you will be able to check your Native-American or African Ancestry as well as for the Cohanim Ancestry. poit is its easy and painless to do and will help you and all of us in our quests for all this info http://www.familytreedna.com/default.asp for tutorials http://www.familytreedna.com/dna101.html for pricing and ordering http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_join.asp?code=E58068&special=True& projecttype=G to join email me [email protected] Jim Denning Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinning- carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mchug h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop,M a.-sprague- and ever growing list

Good morning folks: Q: Is Eneclann Gaelic for something ?? Q: Does anyone have an e-mail address for this crew at Trinity College? Eric Macklin Toronto