Am interested in hearing from anyone whose forebears had the name "Veronica", which means "true face" of Jesus. According to Christian tradition (not dogma), a woman wiped the face of Jesus on his way to Golgatha. The cloth she used was said to have the image of Jesus on it. I have seen the name in my family and wonder if others have also. We are from the ONeill/Sheridan families of the parish of Drumlish, Killoe. Thanks, Jane

Hi, Claire. I am contacting you off list because I am v. interested in Drumlish. I believe that at this time of 1831, there were not many people in this parish. It seems to me that most must have known each other. ???? I didn't find out about my people from Drumlish until last year. I found their tombstone in RI. The ONeill family came to RI in 1849. Please write back. Thanks, Jane On Dec 23, 2004, at 5:57 PM, White, Claire - SOL wrote: > > I have just learned that my great great grandfather, John Brady, of > Clonbroney > parish, married Margaret Higgins in Drumlish RC Parish on May 4, 1831. > They > were married by William Higgins, Bishop of Ardagh, who was Margaret's > brother. Can someone suggest to me where I might find more > information on > that Higgins family? Thanks. Claire Brady White > > > > > > ==== IRL-LONGFORD Mailing List ==== > To contact the listowner send an email to: > [email protected] >

Hello Rachel, the Longford I need is in Roscommon. So I need to subscribe to the Roscommon List. You are correct I believe Longford is only about 394 acres in size. You would think this would make it easy to locate a family in this place :)) Thank you for your help, I did appreciate it. I could not get a large clear map of Longford in Roscommon though :(( All my best in your own search. Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: Rachel & Robert H Smith To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 6:35 PM Subject: [LONGFORD] Re: IRL-LONGFORD-D Digest V04 #261 Irish maps Hi Mike, County Longford is a separate place and has a large county seat town in it also called Longford. There are quite a number of other counties that have Longford townlands also, Galway for instance. Your next move should be to look up the Roscommon Heritage Center who can advise you about looking further for your family in Longford township, Kilkeevin Parish, County Roscommon. <snip>

Dear List members, I wanted you to know how much I have appreciated all your kindness and friendly help. My search was with the area known as Longford in Roscommon. A place that is about 394 acres in size. I would not have been able to locate this with out your generous help. Perhaps my search will carry me back to the Longford List in the near future. It was a pleasure being able to communicate with you all. Many thanks. All my best wishes in your own search. Mike Morris Toronto Canada

Great map link. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: Rachel & Robert H Smith [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 6:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [LONGFORD] Re: IRL-LONGFORD-D Digest V04 #261 Irish maps Hi Mike, County Longford is a separate place and has a large county seat town in it also called Longford. There are quite a number of other counties that have Longford townlands also, Galway for instance. Your next move should be to look up the Roscommon Heritage Center who can advise you about looking further for your family in Longford township, Kilkeevin Parish, County Roscommon. You can get up a map on the web with this URL: http://www.multimap.com/ By zooming you can get a good look at the area. If you want a good road map for a visit there, you can order Discovery maps through this site: http://www.centremaps.co.uk/irish-maps.htm Per Pete's location information, I think you would want Discovery Map #39. It would cost £4.37 plus shipping. Also you could check out what Amazon has and maybe find one for less. Rachel Smith _____________ I found Longford on this site. But is this a different Longford to Longford county? I noticed it was only 394 Acres. Does any one have a map of this location? Taaaa muchly ==== IRL-LONGFORD Mailing List ==== ~An old broom knows the dirty corners best.~

Townland in Ireland is similar to a Township in America. don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Cooke" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 8:27 PM Subject: [LONGFORD] Townland vs. Town > What is the difference between a "Townland" and a "Town?" > > Thanks, Karen > > > > ==== IRL-LONGFORD Mailing List ==== > ~It's often a man's mouth broke his nose.~ > > >

Hi Mike, County Longford is a separate place and has a large county seat town in it also called Longford. There are quite a number of other counties that have Longford townlands also, Galway for instance. Your next move should be to look up the Roscommon Heritage Center who can advise you about looking further for your family in Longford township, Kilkeevin Parish, County Roscommon. You can get up a map on the web with this URL: http://www.multimap.com/ By zooming you can get a good look at the area. If you want a good road map for a visit there, you can order Discovery maps through this site: http://www.centremaps.co.uk/irish-maps.htm Per Pete's location information, I think you would want Discovery Map #39. It would cost £4.37 plus shipping. Also you could check out what Amazon has and maybe find one for less. Rachel Smith _____________ I found Longford on this site. But is this a different Longford to Longford county? I noticed it was only 394 Acres. Does any one have a map of this location? Taaaa muchly

Karen at [email protected] writes: << What is the difference between a "Townland" and a "Town?" >> Karen, Here's a short bit I wrote a couple of years ago for someone who was interested in Co. Limerick: ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////// Regarding the difference between towns and townlands.......it's a real mess. There truly are no such things as "towns" in Ireland. There never were any before the Vikings arrived. They set up the town system. There have been efforts to legitimize towns over the centuries - giving them town councils, special voting districts, etc.. But the fact has remained that all of the land was already divided-up into townlands when the Vikings arrived. So their towns often took the same name as one of the townlands (or not), but soon the settlement spread over, and gobbled-up, other townlands as the population increased. Limerick City is all a bunch of townlands. Even the Ordnance Survey's Gazetteer of Ireland, from the 1980's, is subtitled "Names of Centres of Population and Physical Features". The term "Centre of Population" often applies only to a location with a post-office and "of being, therefore important social centres, although in terms of population they may be quite small". The Irish had a good system until the Vikings came and messed it all up <gr>. You might want to look at: >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~fianna/guide/land-div.html <<. It's a good description of land divisions. One note.....the cartographers at OSI have done a reasonable job of placing the name of each townland on their Discovery maps as close to the geographical center of the townland as possible. Remember that a square mile is 640 acres, and will cover a square on these maps about 1 1/4" on a side. You can estimate dimensions by knowing the acreage from the seanruad website, and with the additional piece of information that 90 percent (my estimate) of townland boundaries lie along the tiny blue lines of streams and brooks. Those haven't changed in centuries. ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////// Pete Schermerhorn, in the glorious Berkshire hills of western Massachusetts

Thank you Pete. This does help me. I wonder if this is the same Pete who a few years ago gave me the name and e-mail address of a supplier of Irish maps in Pawtucket, Rhode Island ? Kind regards Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 5:24 AM Subject: Re: [LONGFORD] LONGFORD location question Mike at [email protected] writes: << Now is there also a Longford in Roscommon? >> Mike, Indeed there is. The average-sized townland of Longford lies immediately to the south and southeast of the town of Castlerea, up to and including the Castlerea railway station. Longford is in Kilkeevin civil parish and Castlerea RC parish. Pete Schermerhorn, in the glorious Berkshire hills of western Massachusetts ==== IRL-LONGFORD Mailing List ==== To contact the listowner send an email to: [email protected]

Oooh! Nancy, it appears there is after all a Longford in Roscommon. Thanks to a lot of List members for all your generous help. All my best Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [LONGFORD] LONGFORD location question Definitely not. Longford is a county to the east of Roscommon. Nancy Gray <snip>

Ah bless you, that's what I was looking for. Now if someone can point me in the direction of a map it would help :)) Happy New Year and my thanks for your kindness is responding to my query. Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: Rachel & Robert H Smith To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 2:17 AM Subject: [LONGFORD] Re: IRL-LONGFORD-D Digest V04 #260 Longford TWP in Roscommon Yes Mike, there is a Longford township in County Roscommon. It is 396 acres in Kilkeevin Parish. I learned this from the following wonderful website: http://www.seanruad.com/cgi-bin/iresrch Rachel Smith ---------- Subject: Re: [LONGFORD] LONGFORD location question From: "Mike Morris" <[email protected]> Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 23:23:17 -0500 To: [email protected] The reason for my confusion is I have a relative in the 1881 British census for Hulme Manchester. Who put his birth place as Longford, Roscommon Co. Now is there also a Longford in Roscommon? Thank you for your reply Mike Toronto Canada ==== IRL-LONGFORD Mailing List ==== ~It's often a man's mouth broke his nose.~

Thank you Rachel, I found Longford on this site. But is this a different Longford to Longford county? I noticed it was only 394 Acres. Does any one have a map of this location? Taaaa muchly Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: Rachel & Robert H Smith To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 2:41 AM Subject: [LONGFORD] Re: IRL-LONGFORD-D Digest V04 #260 Longford Township Re Longford in Roscommon Sorry, I gave the seanruad website incorrectly. Here's the right version. http://www.seanruad.com/ Rachel Smith ==== IRL-LONGFORD Mailing List ==== ~An old broom knows the dirty corners best.~

Hi Dave, I also have Creamers in my family, mostly from Co Leitrim. According to my notes, the name belongs principally in Co Leitrim, although it can be found in Co Tyrone and Co Fermanagh where it was MacCramir. Sometimes it takes the form of MacCreanor or MacCraner, which are old Ulster forms of Traynor. The name Creamer in Co Leitrim appears to have been an anglicized form of MacThreinfhir, which was used by the emigrants and is common in Co Armagh and Co Tyrone. Of course, it is also an English surname. My Creamer connection is through my gr gr grandmother, Mary Creamer who married into the Cafferty family in Aughnasheelin, Co Leitrim, next door to Co Longford. Gail Moran

Mike at [email protected] writes: << Now is there also a Longford in Roscommon? >> Mike, Indeed there is. The average-sized townland of Longford lies immediately to the south and southeast of the town of Castlerea, up to and including the Castlerea railway station. Longford is in Kilkeevin civil parish and Castlerea RC parish. Pete Schermerhorn, in the glorious Berkshire hills of western Massachusetts

In a message dated 1/1/2005 1:01:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > > Just off that route going toward Moyne is Tubber Patrick Cemetery. (Not > Patrick Tubber) > The marked burials in Tubber Patrick Cemetery are mostly from the 20th > century, unfortunately for genealogical purposes, although there are a few that > are older, including one of a general who was killed at the Battle of > Ballinamuck in 1798. Most of the burials in Tubber Patrick Cemetery are from the > nearby Legge Church. > > Ballinamuck is the only place that you mentioned my family was there in 1798 and i think fought there some died . Ide love names . But the DENNINGS left 1805-1815 probably exciled from the battle or thomas WOLFE and robert EMMITT the heslins lit their hay to tell the french -irish where the brits landed after the battle the brits excile them to american australia and mine to west lothiam scotland. where a leitrim man john MALONE for some reason showed up and married bridget HESLIN. they had some kids and then came to hartford and to chelsea ma. where their son James H. MALONE became the 1st irish catholic mayor in 1915. he is still refered to as "the honorable" . He had to be different. the malone line joined the chelsea DENNING CARROLL FARRELL FARLEYS LYNCH DUGGAN FORD. funny how the same names came to the same place because of a rebellion . Jim Denning -Ygenealogist-MTgenealogist using dna to connect Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinning- carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mchug h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop,M a.- and ever an growing list

You're right. There was certainly a concerted effort to anglicize Ireland--largely successful, too until the Gaelic revival of the latter part of the 19th century. Nancy -------------- Original message from "David A. Myers" <[email protected]>: -------------- > > > > >On the family names, a point that I can make is that Gray in that area is > >often synonomous with Colreavy, strange as that may seem, so you need to > >be aware of both names. In fact one of my cousins says that if you live > >in the country, your name is Colreavy; if you live in town, your name is Gray. > >Nancy Gray > > Nancy, > You may already know this, but an Irish priest friend of mine told me that > the English, in their never-ending effort to wipe out Irish culture and > people, forced the Irish to change their names. They wanted them changed > to the name of an occupation or a color (e.g. Gray). (Our family from > Longford is named "Creamer" I suppose they have milk cows to this day.) > David Myers > > > > > ==== IRL-LONGFORD Mailing List ==== > ~An old broom knows the dirty corners best.~ >

Re Longford in Roscommon Sorry, I gave the seanruad website incorrectly. Here's the right version. http://www.seanruad.com/ Rachel Smith

The reason for my confusion is I have a relative in the 1881 British census for Hulme Manchester. Who put his birth place as Longford, Roscommon Co. Now is there also a Longford in Roscommon? Thank you for your reply Mike Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [LONGFORD] LONGFORD location question In a message dated 12/31/2004 4:52:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > > they are both counties Jim Denning -Ygenealogist-MTgenealogist using dna to connect Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinning- carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mchug h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop,M a.- and ever an growing list ==== IRL-LONGFORD Mailing List ==== To check on locations try: http://www.seanruad.com

Yes Mike, there is a Longford township in County Roscommon. It is 396 acres in Kilkeevin Parish. I learned this from the following wonderful website: http://www.seanruad.com/cgi-bin/iresrch Rachel Smith ---------- Subject: Re: [LONGFORD] LONGFORD location question From: "Mike Morris" <[email protected]> Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 23:23:17 -0500 To: [email protected] The reason for my confusion is I have a relative in the 1881 British census for Hulme Manchester. Who put his birth place as Longford, Roscommon Co. Now is there also a Longford in Roscommon? Thank you for your reply Mike Toronto Canada

Definitely not. Longford is a county to the east of Roscommon. Nancy Gray -------------- Original message from "Mike Morris" <[email protected]>: -------------- > Is Longford in the County of Roscommon? If it is, what is it known as? Would it > be a suburb in Roscommon? > > Are there any map sites showing Longford and its towns etc? > > Thank you and Happy New year. > > Mike Morris > Toronto Canada > > > ==== IRL-LONGFORD Mailing List ==== > To contact the Listowner send email to: > mailto:[email protected] >