Jan, The book "Richard Griffith and his Valuations of Ireland," by James R. Reilly, Clearfield, 2001, describes in detail how the valuations were created.  On p. 32, the author indicates that the "Perambulation book" created on site, was signed and dated by the individual valuator before it was sent to Dublin for printing. One would have to examine the signature date to have a good idea when the names of the "ratepayers" (tenants) were identified on the property.   A table in the back of Reilly's book lists the printing dates of each volume, by Poor Law Union. Knockainy parish is in the Kilmallock Poor Law Union. However, "Croom, Kilmallock, Newcastle & Rathkeale" was printed on 10 Feb. 1852; "Croom, Kilmallock & Rathkeale" on 8 Dec. 1851 and "Croom, Limerick & Rathkeale" on 5 March 1851. (Only the latter has a FHL film # of 844987). So one needs to find out which of these volumes includes Knockainy! It seems a bit complicated. Perhaps some additional method of ascertaining the info has been developed since Reilly's book ws published. Paul ________________________________ From: Jan Fortado <janfortado2007@hotmail.com> To: irl-limerick@rootsweb.com Sent: Tue, August 28, 2012 2:57:38 PM Subject: [IRL-LIMERICK] Looking for the date of Griffith's in Knockainy parish Does anyone know if the dates for Griffith's for the various parishes are online anywhere? I am following up on a John Gallagher, National School Teacher. In Griffith's there was a John Gallagherliving on National School property in Knockainy parish. There was also a John Gallagher who was listedas at NT in both Glenroe and Ballyorgan, Limerick, from 1855-1858. If any of those years was the yearthat Griffith's was published for Knockainy parish, then it is likely there were two John Gallagherswho were National Teachers. Just to make matters more complicated, there is a John Gallagher having children with an AnnMcNamara in Knockainy parish in the 1850's, but in between there is a John  Gallagher andNancy McNamara having a child in Glenroe and Ballyorgan RC parish and a John Gallagher andAnn McNamara having a child in Ballylanders RC parish. Because Nancy and Ann are interchangeablethis could be the same family.                         ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jan, John Gallagher is listed in Griffith's Valuation as occupier on lot 48b (Natl. Schoolhouse & garden - area 0 0 23) in the townland of Bottomstown, civil parish of Knockainy, County Limerick. The immediate lessor is Patrick Riordon. Riordan also appears as occupier on lot 48a (House, offices and land - area 60 0 16) with Thomas Wyse, Esq. as immediate lessor. Lot 48 appears on p. 71 (as stamped in upper RH corner of page) of Griffith's Valuation for the Barony of Smallcounty. Griffith's Valuation is arranged by barony, then parish. If you go all the way back to the beginning of the barony (before p. 1), the printing date usually appears on a title page, along with a date and place for appeals to be made about the valuation. For the Barony of Smallcounty (Unions of Croom, Limerick and Kilmallock), the first parish listed (p. 1) is Athneasy. That page is preceded by an index to the parishes (beginning on page xi). That is preceded by a list by parish (beginning on p. vii) of "Tenements appropriated to Public or Charitable purposes..." (which again includes the listing for John Gallagher on lot 48b in Bottomstown, as described above because it is a school property). Before that is an appeals form, then a few pages stating the act under which the valuation was done. Finally at the very beginning of the barony is a title page for the Barony of Smallcounty, which lists a printing date of 5 March 1851. There is also sometimes (not always) a date given in Griffith's Valuation at the end of a parish. Rathanny is the last townland listed in Knockainy parish. Listings for Rathanny townland end on p. 85. In this case, there is a date on p. 85: Dec 1850 (no day given). This, I infer, is the date of the last revision prior to the printing date. In other words, it is the date of the information that ended up being printed on 5 March 1851. This printed version of the valuation is what we call Griffith's Valuation. However, earlier manuscript valuation books containing information gathered by valuators in preparing Griffith's Valuation sometimes survived. These manuscript books (perambulation books - as Paul mentioned, house books, field books, etc.) might have gone through several revisions before arriving at the version of data that was printed as Griffith's Valuation. These books often contain dates of the revisions. I have seen some manuscript valuation books (on FHL microfilm) that pre-date Griffith's by 3 years or so and were revised a few times in those years. Availability and date vary with location. Sometimes the only version that survived is very close to (or identical to) what was printed as Griffith's Valuation, which is not as interesting as being able to follow the changes in property over a few years just before Griffith's, which is often during or just after the Famine years - a time of great upheaval in land tenure in Ireland. After Griffith's Valuation, the valuation (taxes on property) continued to be revised, with changes in holdings noted (usually with a year) in a handwritten book. When a book became too cluttered with changes, a new book had to be started. The current information was then copied into a new book, and the process began over again. These books are the so-called "Canceled Books" or valuation revision lists (also available through the Family History Library). Sometimes there is a gap of 10 or more years between Griffith's Valuation and the first surviving revision list for a particular place. In your case, Jan, Griffith's Valuation seems to put a John Gallagher on National School property in the townland of Bottomstown, civil parish of Knockainy, County Limerick, in December 1850. You could perhaps find pre-Griffith's valuation records (manuscript valuation books) and later revision lists and check for him in Knockainy civil parish and other places where you think he might have lived. Many of the surviving books are available through the Family History Library. I have mentioned them before on this list and on the Tipperary and Laois lists. For my analysis above, I used the version of Griffith's Valuation that appears online at the subscription website Irish Origins http://www.origins.net/. I do not know if the free online versions of Griffith's include images of the additional pages I mentioned above (the pages with Roman numeral pagination). Jan, here is something else to consider. I have found that, for one reason or another, children were sometimes baptized in a Catholic parish different from the one in which they were born or different from the one in which their parents usually resided. By comparing civil birth records (1864 and later) with baptismal records, I have discovered that some mothers returned to their "home" parish to give birth where their own family still lived; female relatives of the mother sometimes also appear as informant on civil birth records. This was often for births of the first child or first few children. When a child was born in the mother's parish, it was sometimes baptized there also; but sometimes the child was baptized in the parish where the mother and father actually lived. Sometimes the residence of the child's father is given as out of the country (e.g., "America" or "London") on a civil birth record - another possible reason for a woman to return "home" to give birth or hav! e her child baptized. Or perhaps a child was baptized by a relative who was a priest, with the baptism occurring in the priest's parish for his convenience. It seems reasonable that families whose work caused them to move around (like National School teachers perhaps?) might have had their children baptized in parishes other than where they were living at the time of the child's birth because they had close ties to other parishes. So, learning the place of baptism of a child does not *necessarily* tell you where a family "usually" lived. You are lucky if a parish register lists a townland of residence for the family (not all Catholic parish registers in Co. Limerick do). Do any of the Gallagher baptismal records you found include a townland of residence? Geralyn Wood Barry in Oregon, USA very interested in Barrys who lived in Knockainy parish & elsewhere in Limerick On 8/28/2012 7:14 PM, Paul Keroack wrote: > Jan, > > The book "Richard Griffith and his Valuations of Ireland," by James R. Reilly, > Clearfield, 2001, describes in detail how the valuations were created. On p. > 32, the author indicates that the "Perambulation book" created on site, was > signed and dated by the individual valuator before it was sent to Dublin for > printing. One would have to examine the signature date to have a good idea when > the names of the "ratepayers" (tenants) were identified on the property. > > A table in the back of Reilly's book lists the printing dates of each volume, by > Poor Law Union. Knockainy parish is in the Kilmallock Poor Law Union. However, > "Croom, Kilmallock, Newcastle & Rathkeale" was printed on 10 Feb. 1852; "Croom, > Kilmallock & Rathkeale" on 8 Dec. 1851 and "Croom, Limerick & Rathkeale" on 5 > March 1851. (Only the latter has a FHL film # of 844987). So one needs to find > out which of these volumes includes Knockainy! > > It seems a bit complicated. Perhaps some additional method of ascertaining the > info has been developed since Reilly's book ws published. > > Paul > > ________________________________ > From: Jan Fortado <janfortado2007@hotmail.com> > To: irl-limerick@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tue, August 28, 2012 2:57:38 PM > Subject: [IRL-LIMERICK] Looking for the date of Griffith's in Knockainy parish > > Does anyone know if the dates for Griffith's for the various parishes are online > anywhere? I am following up on a John Gallagher, National School Teacher. In > Griffith's there was a John Gallagherliving on National School property in > Knockainy parish. There was also a John Gallagher who was listedas at NT in both > Glenroe and Ballyorgan, Limerick, from 1855-1858. If any of those years was the > yearthat Griffith's was published for Knockainy parish, then it is likely there > were two John Gallagherswho were National Teachers. Just to make matters more > complicated, there is a John Gallagher having children with an AnnMcNamara in > Knockainy parish in the 1850's, but in between there is a John Gallagher > andNancy McNamara having a child in Glenroe and Ballyorgan RC parish and a John > Gallagher andAnn McNamara having a child in Ballylanders RC parish. Because > Nancy and Ann are interchangeablethis could be the same family. > > > >