Thank you Carla, Maggie and Sean for your reply. I have had a second look at the image and I believe it is 'Ireland'. One more question, are there any directories on line for Dublin around 1888 to 1895? Regards, Mary -----Original Message----- From: irl-limerick-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-limerick-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sean Sheehan Sent: Wednesday, 20 February 2008 2:16 AM To: irl-limerick@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] Identify place I believe the word is "Ireland", Dublin Sean -----Original Message----- From: irl-limerick-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-limerick-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Maggie Doyle Sent: 19 February 2008 16:09 To: irl-limerick@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] Identify place I live in Dublin. Never heard of anything with a name like that. Maybe if you get a site with old maps of Dublin it might help. Good luck. ----- Original Message ---- From: Mary O'Brien <obmary@gmail.com> To: IRL-LIMERICK@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, 18 February, 2008 11:15:55 AM Subject: [IRL-LIMERICK] Identify place Could some one help me identify a location in Dublin Co. please. On an original sheet from the 1901 census a place of birth is given as Sreland or Srcland Dublin. Could any one suggest what the actual name is and where I can find information about the town. Regards, Mary ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Mike, Unfortunately it is not. Transcriptions are all you can do (as of the last time I was there - October 2007). Though in a pinch I have placed my notebook on the microfilm viewing board and traced the entry for review/interpretation later. --Patrick > Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:18:59 -0500 > From: Dunleavy.Michael@cb-bc.gc.ca > To: irl-limerick@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] National library in Dublin > > Would anyone know whether it is possible at the National Library to make photocopies of documents on microfilm? Thanks. > > Mike Dunleavy > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan

Answer to your question is found at the National Library web site http://www.nli.ie/en/copying-services.aspx -------------- Original message from "Dunleavy, Michael: #CB - BC" <Dunleavy.Michael@cb-bc.gc.ca>: -------------- > Would anyone know whether it is possible at the National Library to make > photocopies of documents on microfilm? Thanks. > > Mike Dunleavy > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Kerry Thank you so much for the info you have sent.....I am not 100% sure if the Mary Kennelly is ours but may give me some clues for further research. Thanks again Kaye Vernon www.bananatv.com/familytreechecklist.htm No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1288 - Release Date: 19/02/2008 8:47 PM

I have used the National Library a few times, and even last year, did not need a reader's ticket if I was just going to use microfilms of parish records. If that is still the case, anyone wanting to look at filmed records can just sign in at the desk upstairs (as soon as you go in the door) and fill out the form for films. I think if you want books retrieved you probably need a reader's ticket, and if you want to use the Manuscript Room, you definitely need a Reader's ticket. The person I traveled with used to have a passport picture taken back here in the US and ran off the from online. She then presented both to get a Reader's Ticket. She now just has everything done at the library. Jan

For the Australian side of this debate: If you would like to see the exact letter that Governor Macquarie wrote to Father Therry, from Cork, Australia's first official priest on what he can and can't do is on the link below. However, Therry did go behind the Governors back and marry protestants and Catholics which was considered illegal by the crown, but legal by the Catholic church, bringing Therry into many fights and conflicts with the Governor. The persecution of Catholics in NSW was even worse under Governor Darling and Therry was dismissed and sent to Tasmania, Darling then wrote to the British government '.I must confess to your Lordship that I have no desire to see anymore of the clergy of the Catholic persuasion here' Darling then requested if there has to be clergy let them be English not Irish. The persecution continued until the Emancipation Act was passed in Britain, along with the support of Governor Burke who took over in the 1830's and Therry was later re-instated. http://www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au/Research/Condon/CatholicLetters/18201014.htm Kerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <littlehouseantiques@att.net> To: <IRL-LIMERICK@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 11:37 PM Subject: [IRL-LIMERICK] Civil (Non-religious) marriages in Ireland circa1830-1841 > Dear List, > > Had a reply to my original question from someone off list who indicates > that there is evidence that couples where one party was Catholic and one > party was Protestant were allowed to marry in the Catholic Church in > Australia. However, no one has answered my question as to whether or not > this was possible in the same era (1830-1841) in Ireland. Does anyone > know? Or know where to look for such info? > > Also, not answered was my question as to whether it was at all possible to > have a marriage performed outside of a church (by a Justice of the Peace, > etc.) Again, does anyone know? > > And one further question regarding marriages in Ireland in this time era: > > If one or both of the parties had not reached their majority (I'm assuming > it was likely age 21 at that time period) and their parents were not > inclined to give legal consent - what did couples do in this instance? > Here in the USA they'd have "eloped" to a location that allowed for > marriages to take place without being age 21. For example in 1951 in the > state of Tennessee you had to be age 18 to marry without parental consent, > so couples would pop down to nearby Hernando Mississippi where the age was > lower (16 I think, and no parental consent needed and no blood test for > the license either) and tie the knot. > > How did one "elope" in Ireland during the 1830-1841 time period? Or am I > making a wrong assumption here altogether---was there an age of legal > consent to marry in Ireland during that time? If there was and there was > no way 'round it, do you find any evidence that your ancestors "fudged" > their ages on their baptismal certificates and/or marriage licenses to > overcome the obstacle? > > Thanks for any help! > Kathy Rhodes > > Researching SHANAHAN and LUBY surnames in > Co Limerick, Co Cork and Co Tipperary > > > - - - - - - - -Original Message From: Kathy Rhodes > littlehouseantiques@att.net - - - - - - > > If you have a 'mixed' marriage, one spouse being Catholic and the other > being Protestant was it possible back in 1830-1841 for the couple to be > wed in the Catholic Church at all? Or did they have to have some sort of > 'civil' non-religious type of wedding? Was that even possible back then? > Could you go to some Justice of the Peace or something and be married? If > so, is there any special place I should be looking for marriage records? > > Thanks! > Kathy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.7/1233 - Release Date: > 19/01/2008 6:37 PM > >

Thank you everyone for your responses to my question. After searching on the National Library's website, I found the following information under FAQs: "Can I order copies from the Catholic parish registers on microfilm? The National Library does not provide copies of, or transcriptions from, registers. Original and post-1880 registers are generally in the custody of the local Parish Priest. Up-to-date parish contact detail addresses can be obtained from the annual Irish Catholic Directory." It looks like my only option will be to bring my own camera. Has anyone tried that in the National Library and was it allowed? If so, how did the photos turn out? Was the information in the document legible? Do I need a special camera or lense? I am doing research in County Longford as well, and I was able to obtain microfilms of all of the records available from my local LDS centre and to make copies of all of the documents that I needed. LDS doesn't seem to have the records for the parishes in the Diocese of Limerick where I am doing research. Does anyone know why this is the case? Mike Dunleavy -----Original Message----- From: Dunleavy, Michael: #CB - BC Sent: February 20, 2008 2:19 PM To: 'irl-limerick@rootsweb.com' Subject: RE: [IRL-LIMERICK] National library in Dublin Would anyone know whether it is possible at the National Library to make photocopies of documents on microfilm? Thanks. Mike Dunleavy

Thank you George! Judie george kelly <geokel@eircom.net> wrote: Judie Diocese of Killaloe. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judith Mason" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:52 PM Subject: [IRL-LIMERICK] Castleconnell > Can someone tell me what diocese the church of Castleconnel is in? I > didn't see it in either Limerick or Cashel/Emly. > > Thanks, > > Judie Mason > Chicago > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

These questions have been discussed before & can be seen in the list archives. Your questions are hipothetical & you seem to be pushing a point that keeps moving as if you are trying to win some sort of arguement with another third person who is not heard !! Mixed marrages happened in Ireland in the years you stated 1830-1841. The age of consent was 12 years old, for the, well child. The consent was sort of & given by the, usually English land lord after he had first test drive of the intending bride ! Cheers Col ----- Original Message ----- From: <littlehouseantiques@att.net> To: <IRL-LIMERICK@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 11:37 PM Subject: [IRL-LIMERICK] Civil (Non-religious) marriages in Ireland circa1830-1841 > Dear List, > > Had a reply to my original question from someone off list who indicates > that there is evidence that couples where one party was Catholic and one > party was Protestant were allowed to marry in the Catholic Church in > Australia. However, no one has answered my question as to whether or not > this was possible in the same era (1830-1841) in Ireland. Does anyone > know? Or know where to look for such info? > > Also, not answered was my question as to whether it was at all possible to > have a marriage performed outside of a church (by a Justice of the Peace, > etc.) Again, does anyone know? > > And one further question regarding marriages in Ireland in this time era: > > If one or both of the parties had not reached their majority (I'm assuming > it was likely age 21 at that time period) and their parents were not > inclined to give legal consent - what did couples do in this instance? > Here in the USA they'd have "eloped" to a location that allowed for > marriages to take place without being age 21. For example in 1951 in the > state of Tennessee you had to be age 18 to marry without parental consent, > so couples would pop down to nearby Hernando Mississippi where the age was > lower (16 I think, and no parental consent needed and no blood test for > the license either) and tie the knot. > > How did one "elope" in Ireland during the 1830-1841 time period? Or am I > making a wrong assumption here altogether---was there an age of legal > consent to marry in Ireland during that time? If there was and there was > no way 'round it, do you find any evidence that your ancestors "fudged" > their ages on their baptismal certificates and/or marriage licenses to > overcome the obstacle? > > Thanks for any help! > Kathy Rhodes > > Researching SHANAHAN and LUBY surnames in > Co Limerick, Co Cork and Co Tipperary > > > - - - - - - - -Original Message From: Kathy Rhodes > littlehouseantiques@att.net - - - - - - > > If you have a 'mixed' marriage, one spouse being Catholic and the other > being Protestant was it possible back in 1830-1841 for the couple to be > wed in the Catholic Church at all? Or did they have to have some sort of > 'civil' non-religious type of wedding? Was that even possible back then? > Could you go to some Justice of the Peace or something and be married? If > so, is there any special place I should be looking for marriage records? > > Thanks! > Kathy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > __________ NOD32 2885 (20080219) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > >

Can someone tell me what diocese the church of Castleconnel is in? I didn't see it in either Limerick or Cashel/Emly. Thanks, Judie Mason Chicago

Would anyone know whether it is possible at the National Library to make photocopies of documents on microfilm? Thanks. Mike Dunleavy

thank you ----- Original Message ----- From: "JJ Woods" <woodsjj@gmail.com> To: <irl-limerick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] National library in Dublin >I think it is a little complicated. Obviously they don't own the records > themselves but they do claim copyright of the films. I am not sure if that > has any real standing in law but the Library authorities take very strict > view of the claim to copyright and, I believe, do not allow printing out > of > even one page! > > The same applies to the microfilm copies of the general registers of > births, > marriages and deaths held in the Pearse Street Library, again, honouring > the > LDS claim to copyright. > > In fairness to the library authorities, I believe these are the conditions > under which copies of the microfilms are made available to them by the > LDS. > > The shame of the whole matter is that even still the Irish state depends > on > the LDS to produce microfilm of documents instead of either undertaking > this > work themselves or else contracting with outside agencies to produce them > to > a higher standard. > > You are allowed to transcribe the information you want. I must confess > that > in the past I believed that copyright could only be claimed on something > unique and/or creative. Badly reproduced microfilms do not enter into my > understanding of what is unique and/or creative! > > > On 20/02/2008, Karen McGann <imhear@comcast.net> wrote: >> >> Bring a small digital camera with you...and leave a big tip-only joking. >> Can you explain the copyright thing again? Do you mean the LDS owns the >> copyright on the parish records?????? >> I'm obviously confused! >> Karen >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "JJ Woods" <woodsjj@gmail.com> >> To: <irl-limerick@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:06 PM >> Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] National library in Dublin >> >> >> > Yes in some situations and no in others. I believe there is copyright >> > on >> > the >> > parish register microfilms as produced by the LDS and, again I think, >> you >> > cannot get those films in the room with the facility to print from the >> > readers, only in the room with the non-printing readers. You can get >> > copies >> > from books, magazines, newspapers, etc., subject to copyright laws. >> > >> > >> > >> > On 20/02/2008, Dunleavy, Michael: #CB - BC >> > <Dunleavy.Michael@cb-bc.gc.ca >> > >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Would anyone know whether it is possible at the National Library to >> make >> >> photocopies of documents on microfilm? Thanks. >> >> >> >> Mike Dunleavy >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

That issue (LDS & Limerick parish records) was a big discussion on the list about a year ago. unfortunately I don't remember if there was any conclusion to the 'why no Limerick records on microfilm' question-perhaps you can search the archives-Sorry I don't have more info... Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dunleavy, Michael: #CB - BC" <Dunleavy.Michael@cb-bc.gc.ca> To: <irl-limerick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] National library in Dublin > Thank you everyone for your responses to my question. After searching on > the National Library's website, I found the following information under > FAQs: > > "Can I order copies from the Catholic parish registers on microfilm? > > > The National Library does not provide copies of, or transcriptions from, > registers. Original and post-1880 registers are generally in the custody > of the local Parish Priest. Up-to-date parish contact detail addresses can > be obtained from the annual Irish Catholic Directory." > > > It looks like my only option will be to bring my own camera. Has anyone > tried that in the National Library and was it allowed? If so, how did the > photos turn out? Was the information in the document legible? Do I need a > special camera or lense? > > I am doing research in County Longford as well, and I was able to obtain > microfilms of all of the records available from my local LDS centre and to > make copies of all of the documents that I needed. LDS doesn't seem to > have the records for the parishes in the Diocese of Limerick where I am > doing research. Does anyone know why this is the case? > > Mike Dunleavy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dunleavy, Michael: #CB - BC > Sent: February 20, 2008 2:19 PM > To: 'irl-limerick@rootsweb.com' > Subject: RE: [IRL-LIMERICK] National library in Dublin > > > Would anyone know whether it is possible at the National Library to make > photocopies of documents on microfilm? Thanks. > > Mike Dunleavy > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you so much Kerry (and Bill Kelson too who replied to me off-list). Info both of you provided did not specifically answer my questions, but did help "jog my brain". Questions occurred to me as I read what both of you had sent and in researching these questions I have now reached some conclusions. Didn't mean to sound argumentative at all...was just floating hypothetical theorys and testing to see how they flew. Colin said something about me "trying to win some sort of argument with another third person who is not heard " and he is basically correct...but the third person is myself - just sorting through questions and trying to find an answer not really trying to "win" an argument - rather trying to scale a brick wall. If anyone is interested here are my (longwinded) conclusions: (and I stress they are my conclusions, whether they are correct or not or bear any resemblence to what actually took place w/ regard to marriages in Ireland during this time period I can't say--but would be interested in discussing (not arguing!) with anyone whose research shows information that supports/adds to OR differs from my conclusions.) CONCLUSIONs: - In Ireland in 1830-41 a male could marry at age 14 and a female at 12 without ANY parental/guardian consent, therefore, "elopements" were probably totally unnecessary and quite likely unheard of. 'Fudging' one's age too would be rather unusual (unless, heaven forbid,someone wanted to get married before the age of 12!) - In Ireland in 1830-41 a protestant could marry a catholic and such a marriage could take place in a Catholic Church (or be performed wherever a Catholic Priest wanted to hold the ceremony) AS LONG AS the couple was FIRST married by a Protestant Clergyman. - In Ireland in 1830-41 a protestant could marry a catholic and only go through ONE marriage ceremony AS LONG AS they were married by a Protestant Clergyman, needing never to set foot in a Catholic Church or to see a Catholic Priest. - In Ireland in 1830-41 a protestant could marry a catholic and only have the ceremony performed by a Catholic Priest if they could find one willing to defy the law, but if they did so the priest (if caught and convicted) faced a hefty fine of 500 pounds and such a ceremony would NOT be recognized by the civil authorities, thus putting the couple at a legal disadvantage (as if they weren't already!). Unless couple was of a particularly politically militant or scrupulously religious bent, can't see why they'd do such a thing so feel it would be improbable and unlikely. (not impossible though) - After 1871 there was no ban whatever on marriages between 'mixed' couples either by Canon/Catholic Law or by English/Irish Law. SOURCES: Report on The Law Relating to The Age of Majority. http://www.lawreform.ie/publications/data/volume3/lrc_21.html Catholic Encyclopedia http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11611c.htm#III All Experts at http://en.allexperts.com/e/j/jo/john_keogh.htm Rootsweb IRL-WICKLOW-L Archives The Encyclopedia of Irish History & Culture pp 864-866 which is a précis of "Statutes At Large Passed In The Parliament Held In Ireland, 1310-1800 (1786-1801), volume 16, pages 685-692 http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/IRL-WICKLOW/2007-04/1175846354 -------------- Original message from "Kerry" <kerryb@austarnet.com.au>: -------------- > For the Australian side of this debate: > > If you would like to see the exact letter that Governor Macquarie wrote to > Father Therry, from Cork, Australia's first official priest on what he can > and can't do is on the link below. However, Therry did go behind the > Governors back and marry protestants and Catholics which was considered > illegal by the crown, but legal by the Catholic church, bringing Therry into > many fights and conflicts with the Governor. The persecution of Catholics in > NSW was even worse under Governor Darling and Therry was dismissed and sent > to Tasmania, Darling then wrote to the British government '.I must confess > to your Lordship that I have no desire to see anymore of the clergy of the > Catholic persuasion here' Darling then requested if there has to be clergy > let them be English not Irish. The persecution continued until the > Emancipation Act was passed in Britain, along with the support of Governor > Burke who took over in the 1830's and Therry was later re-instated. > > http://www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au/Research/Condon/CatholicLetters/18201014.htm > > Kerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 11:37 PM > Subject: [IRL-LIMERICK] Civil (Non-religious) marriages in Ireland > circa1830-1841 > > > > Dear List, > > > > Had a reply to my original question from someone off list who indicates > > that there is evidence that couples where one party was Catholic and one > > party was Protestant were allowed to marry in the Catholic Church in > > Australia. However, no one has answered my question as to whether or not > > this was possible in the same era (1830-1841) in Ireland. Does anyone > > know? Or know where to look for such info? > > > > Also, not answered was my question as to whether it was at all possible to > > have a marriage performed outside of a church (by a Justice of the Peace, > > etc.) Again, does anyone know? > > > > And one further question regarding marriages in Ireland in this time era: > > > > If one or both of the parties had not reached their majority (I'm assuming > > it was likely age 21 at that time period) and their parents were not > > inclined to give legal consent - what did couples do in this instance? > > Here in the USA they'd have "eloped" to a location that allowed for > > marriages to take place without being age 21. For example in 1951 in the > > state of Tennessee you had to be age 18 to marry without parental consent, > > so couples would pop down to nearby Hernando Mississippi where the age was > > lower (16 I think, and no parental consent needed and no blood test for > > the license either) and tie the knot. > > > > How did one "elope" in Ireland during the 1830-1841 time period? Or am I > > making a wrong assumption here altogether---was there an age of legal > > consent to marry in Ireland during that time? If there was and there was > > no way 'round it, do you find any evidence that your ancestors "fudged" > > their ages on their baptismal certificates and/or marriage licenses to > > overcome the obstacle? > > > > Thanks for any help! > > Kathy Rhodes > > > > Researching SHANAHAN and LUBY surnames in > > Co Limerick, Co Cork and Co Tipperary > > > > > > - - - - - - - -Original Message From: Kathy Rhodes > > littlehouseantiques@att.net - - - - - - > > > > If you have a 'mixed' marriage, one spouse being Catholic and the other > > being Protestant was it possible back in 1830-1841 for the couple to be > > wed in the Catholic Church at all? Or did they have to have some sort of > > 'civil' non-religious type of wedding? Was that even possible back then? > > Could you go to some Justice of the Peace or something and be married? If > > so, is there any special place I should be looking for marriage records? > > > > Thanks! > > Kathy > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.7/1233 - Release Date: > > 19/01/2008 6:37 PM > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Bring a small digital camera with you...and leave a big tip-only joking. Can you explain the copyright thing again? Do you mean the LDS owns the copyright on the parish records?????? I'm obviously confused! Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "JJ Woods" <woodsjj@gmail.com> To: <irl-limerick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] National library in Dublin > Yes in some situations and no in others. I believe there is copyright on > the > parish register microfilms as produced by the LDS and, again I think, you > cannot get those films in the room with the facility to print from the > readers, only in the room with the non-printing readers. You can get > copies > from books, magazines, newspapers, etc., subject to copyright laws. > > > > On 20/02/2008, Dunleavy, Michael: #CB - BC <Dunleavy.Michael@cb-bc.gc.ca> > wrote: >> >> Would anyone know whether it is possible at the National Library to make >> photocopies of documents on microfilm? Thanks. >> >> Mike Dunleavy >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Mary www.libraryireland.com has an online directory for 1862,if that's of any help. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary" <obmary@gmail.com> To: <irl-limerick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] Identify place > > Thank you Carla, Maggie and Sean for your reply. > > I have had a second look at the image and I believe it is 'Ireland'. > > One more question, are there any directories on line for Dublin around > 1888 > to 1895? > > Regards, > > Mary > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-limerick-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:irl-limerick-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sean Sheehan > Sent: Wednesday, 20 February 2008 2:16 AM > To: irl-limerick@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] Identify place > > I believe the word is "Ireland", Dublin > Sean > > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-limerick-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:irl-limerick-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Maggie Doyle > Sent: 19 February 2008 16:09 > To: irl-limerick@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] Identify place > > I live in Dublin. Never heard of anything with a name like that. Maybe if > you get a site with old maps of Dublin it might help. Good luck. > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Mary O'Brien <obmary@gmail.com> > To: IRL-LIMERICK@rootsweb.com > Sent: Monday, 18 February, 2008 11:15:55 AM > Subject: [IRL-LIMERICK] Identify place > > Could > some > one > help > me > identify > a > location > in > Dublin > Co. > please. > > > On > an > original > sheet > from > the > 1901 > census > a > place > of > birth > is > given > as > Sreland > or > Srcland > Dublin. > > > Could > any > one > suggest > what > the > actual > name > is > and > where > I > can > find > information > about > the > town. > > > Regards, > > > Mary > > ------------------------------- > To > unsubscribe > from > the > list, > please > send > an > email > to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com > with > the > word > 'unsubscribe' > without > the > quotes > in > the > subject > and > the > body > of > the > message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Well done! There are many of us who appreciate the information and discussion. Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: <littlehouseantiques@att.net> To: <irl-limerick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] Civil (Non-religious) marriages in Irelandcirca1830-1841 > Thank you so much Kerry (and Bill Kelson too who replied to me off-list). > Info both of you provided did not specifically answer my questions, but > did help "jog my brain". Questions occurred to me as I read what both of > you had sent and in researching these questions I have now reached some > conclusions. > > Didn't mean to sound argumentative at all...was just floating hypothetical > theorys and testing to see how they flew. Colin said something about me > "trying to win some sort of argument with another third person who is not > heard " and he is basically correct...but the third person is myself - > just sorting through questions and trying to find an answer not really > trying to "win" an argument - rather trying to scale a brick wall. If > anyone is interested here are my (longwinded) conclusions: (and I stress > they are my conclusions, whether they are correct or not or bear any > resemblence to what actually took place w/ regard to marriages in Ireland > during this time period I can't say--but would be interested in discussing > (not arguing!) with anyone whose research shows information that > supports/adds to OR differs from my conclusions.) > > CONCLUSIONs: > - In Ireland in 1830-41 a male could marry at age 14 and a female at 12 > without ANY parental/guardian consent, therefore, "elopements" were > probably totally unnecessary and quite likely unheard of. 'Fudging' one's > age too would be rather unusual (unless, heaven forbid,someone wanted to > get married before the age of 12!) > > - In Ireland in 1830-41 a protestant could marry a catholic and such a > marriage could take place in a Catholic Church (or be performed wherever a > Catholic Priest wanted to hold the ceremony) AS LONG AS the couple was > FIRST married by a Protestant Clergyman. > > - In Ireland in 1830-41 a protestant could marry a catholic and only go > through ONE marriage ceremony AS LONG AS they were married by a Protestant > Clergyman, needing never to set foot in a Catholic Church or to see a > Catholic Priest. > > - In Ireland in 1830-41 a protestant could marry a catholic and only have > the ceremony performed by a Catholic Priest if they could find one willing > to defy the law, but if they did so the priest (if caught and convicted) > faced a hefty fine of 500 pounds and such a ceremony would NOT be > recognized by the civil authorities, thus putting the couple at a legal > disadvantage (as if they weren't already!). Unless couple was of a > particularly politically militant or scrupulously religious bent, can't > see why they'd do such a thing so feel it would be improbable and > unlikely. (not impossible though) > > - After 1871 there was no ban whatever on marriages between 'mixed' > couples either by Canon/Catholic Law or by English/Irish Law. > > SOURCES: > Report on The Law Relating to The Age of Majority. > http://www.lawreform.ie/publications/data/volume3/lrc_21.html > Catholic Encyclopedia > http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11611c.htm#III > All Experts at > http://en.allexperts.com/e/j/jo/john_keogh.htm > Rootsweb IRL-WICKLOW-L Archives > The Encyclopedia of Irish History & Culture pp 864-866 which is a précis > of > "Statutes At Large Passed In The Parliament Held In Ireland, 1310-1800 > (1786-1801), volume 16, pages 685-692 > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/IRL-WICKLOW/2007-04/1175846354 > > -------------- Original message from "Kerry" > <kerryb@austarnet.com.au>: -------------- > > >> For the Australian side of this debate: >> >> If you would like to see the exact letter that Governor Macquarie wrote >> to >> Father Therry, from Cork, Australia's first official priest on what he >> can >> and can't do is on the link below. However, Therry did go behind the >> Governors back and marry protestants and Catholics which was considered >> illegal by the crown, but legal by the Catholic church, bringing Therry >> into >> many fights and conflicts with the Governor. The persecution of Catholics >> in >> NSW was even worse under Governor Darling and Therry was dismissed and >> sent >> to Tasmania, Darling then wrote to the British government '.I must >> confess >> to your Lordship that I have no desire to see anymore of the clergy of >> the >> Catholic persuasion here' Darling then requested if there has to be >> clergy >> let them be English not Irish. The persecution continued until the >> Emancipation Act was passed in Britain, along with the support of >> Governor >> Burke who took over in the 1830's and Therry was later re-instated. >> >> http://www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au/Research/Condon/CatholicLetters/18201014.htm >> >> Kerry >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 11:37 PM >> Subject: [IRL-LIMERICK] Civil (Non-religious) marriages in Ireland >> circa1830-1841 >> >> >> > Dear List, >> > >> > Had a reply to my original question from someone off list who indicates >> > that there is evidence that couples where one party was Catholic and >> > one >> > party was Protestant were allowed to marry in the Catholic Church in >> > Australia. However, no one has answered my question as to whether or >> > not >> > this was possible in the same era (1830-1841) in Ireland. Does anyone >> > know? Or know where to look for such info? >> > >> > Also, not answered was my question as to whether it was at all possible >> > to >> > have a marriage performed outside of a church (by a Justice of the >> > Peace, >> > etc.) Again, does anyone know? >> > >> > And one further question regarding marriages in Ireland in this time >> > era: >> > >> > If one or both of the parties had not reached their majority (I'm >> > assuming >> > it was likely age 21 at that time period) and their parents were not >> > inclined to give legal consent - what did couples do in this instance? >> > Here in the USA they'd have "eloped" to a location that allowed for >> > marriages to take place without being age 21. For example in 1951 in >> > the >> > state of Tennessee you had to be age 18 to marry without parental >> > consent, >> > so couples would pop down to nearby Hernando Mississippi where the age >> > was >> > lower (16 I think, and no parental consent needed and no blood test for >> > the license either) and tie the knot. >> > >> > How did one "elope" in Ireland during the 1830-1841 time period? Or am >> > I >> > making a wrong assumption here altogether---was there an age of legal >> > consent to marry in Ireland during that time? If there was and there >> > was >> > no way 'round it, do you find any evidence that your ancestors "fudged" >> > their ages on their baptismal certificates and/or marriage licenses to >> > overcome the obstacle? >> > >> > Thanks for any help! >> > Kathy Rhodes >> > >> > Researching SHANAHAN and LUBY surnames in >> > Co Limerick, Co Cork and Co Tipperary >> > >> > >> > - - - - - - - -Original Message From: Kathy Rhodes >> > littlehouseantiques@att.net - - - - - - >> > >> > If you have a 'mixed' marriage, one spouse being Catholic and the other >> > being Protestant was it possible back in 1830-1841 for the couple to be >> > wed in the Catholic Church at all? Or did they have to have some sort >> > of >> > 'civil' non-religious type of wedding? Was that even possible back >> > then? >> > Could you go to some Justice of the Peace or something and be married? >> > If >> > so, is there any special place I should be looking for marriage >> > records? >> > >> > Thanks! >> > Kathy >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.7/1233 - Release Date: >> > 19/01/2008 6:37 PM >> > >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Pat, There could be a connection.? It depends on how the baptismal records recorded the sponsor's names.? In the church records in Perth, Canada, the earliest priest would often put the female sponsor's maiden name into the register.? If this was true in Ireland, your sponsor Mary Shanahan might be my Michael Enright's wife.? Michael and your John appear to be of the same generation, so may be brothers.? When I visited Ireland 8 years ago, a search at the Limerick Heritage Center showed a baptism for my g-g-grandmother Hanora Enright in Kilcornan, Stonehall Parish.? Here are the basics of the family.? See any other similarities? Rita Descendants of Michael Enright 1 Michael Enright b: in County Limerick, Ireland .. +Mary Shanahan b: in County Limerick, Ireland . 2 Michael Enright b: 1815 in Ireland d: 1891 in East Grand Forks, MN/Grand Forks, ND ..... +Catherine Hartney b 1: Bet. 1825 - 1830 in Ireland d: 1898 in East Grand Forks, MN/Grand Forks, ND . 2 Catherine Enright b: Bef. 1818 in Ireland d: Bet. 1871 - 1873 ..... +Patrick Neville m: 15 Feb 1833 in Kilcornan, County Limerick, Ireland d: Bet. 1865 - 1869 in Canada . *2nd Husband of Catherine Enright: ..... +John Hanrahan b: Abt. 1820 m: 06 Feb 1869 in Mount St. Patrick, Renfrew County, Ontario, Canada . 2 Mary Enright b 1: Abt. 1820 -. 1823 in Ireland d: Aft. 1895 ..... +Peter McGuire? m: 27 Apr 1845 in Perth, Lanark Co., Ontario . 2 Margaret Enright b: Abt. 1822 in Ireland d: Abt. 1900 in East Grand Forks, Polk Co., MN . 2 Hanora Enright b 1: Abt. 14 Jul 1825 in Kilcornan, Stonehall Parish, Limerick Baptism: 15 Jul 1825 sponsors John Shanahan & Judith McMahon d: 26 Apr 1903 in East Grand Forks, MN ..... +Timothy A. Sullivan b: 14 Jan 1828 in Ferguson Falls, Ontario, Canada? m: 23 Feb 1852 in Perth, Ontario, Canada d: 01 Mar 1919 in E.Grand Forks, MN > Hi Rita, > > First let met hank you for that nice response. This is a great site with some wonderful people. > I'll be in Limerick about nine days and I hope it will be enough time to do my visiting and sightseeing. I also want to tour Dublin and do some research. > > My Grandfather, Patrick Enright was born June 29th. 1849. His birth sponsor was Mary Shananhan. Patrick married Anne Collopy on Nov. 26th. 1876 and had nine children. Patrick's father was John Enright, born about 1797 and he married Alice Hurley on Feb. 25th. 1838. He died on July 15th. 1891. > I hope this is a connection. > > Take care. > Pat > Patrick Enright > pappyenright@earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

Hi Eileen, Sorry, but none of those people are in my data base. It seems that there is a Michael in every Irish family. But without a lot of other info on that person it would be imposable to find him. Take care. Pat Patrick Enright pappyenright@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eileen Sarajak" <seileen@sbcglobal.net> To: "Patrick Enright" <pappyenright@earthlink.net>; <irl-limerick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] Irish Travel >I think I asked you this before. Are you any connection to these Enrights >in > Limerick? > Eileen > > Descendants of Michael Enright > > > > 1 Michael Enright b: in Co. Limerick, Ireland > > . +Ellen Minihan b: June 09, 1857 in Co. Limerick, Ireland m: in Ireland > d: > Bef. 1929 in per Barbara Walsh will Baptism: June 10, 1857 > > ........ 2 William Enright d: Bef. 1994 in per Robert Kearney's notes > > ........ 2 Patrick Enright d: Bef. 1994 in per Robert Kearney's notes > > ........ 2 John Enright d: Bef. 1994 in per Robert Kearney's notes > > ........ 2 Unknown Enright d: Bef. 1994 in per Robert Kearney's notes > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patrick Enright" <pappyenright@earthlink.net> > To: <PVMeistrel@aol.com>; <irl-limerick@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 3:29 PM > Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] Irish Travel > > >> Hi Rita, >> >> First let met hank you for that nice response. This is a great site with > some wonderful people. >> I'll be in Limerick about nine days and I hope it will be enough time to > do my visiting and sightseeing. I also want to tour Dublin and do some > research. >> >> My Grandfather, Patrick Enright was born June 29th. 1849. His birth > sponsor was Mary Shananhan. Patrick married Anne Collopy on Nov. 26th. > 1876 > and had nine children. Patrick's father was John Enright, born about 1797 > and he married Alice Hurley on Feb. 25th. 1838. He died on July 15th. > 1891. >> I hope this is a connection. >> >> Take care. >> Pat >> Patrick Enright >> pappyenright@earthlink.net >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: PVMeistrel@aol.com >> To: irl-limerick@rootsweb.com >> Cc: pappyenright@earthlink.net >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 6:20 PM >> Subject: Re: Irish Travel >> >> >> Patrick, >> I haven't been there since 1999, but if you are going to do research, > allow plenty of time in Dublin. It seems to me I had to get a permit for > the microfilm room at the National Library and had to wait for the > appropriate time to do so. By the time I got setup to do any research, > half > the day was gone. >> >> If you plan to just visit areas, again, allow a LOT of time at each > place. I scheduled our trip as if these places were in the US connected > by > major highways. First of all, the large breakfast you'll get at the B&B > will give you a slow start. Then the narrow roads and frequent towns will > cause you to drive slower than you anticipated and you may arrive > mid-afternoon. You find that you better get lunch before the places close > (not like McDonalds, open all day). All of a sudden you find that it's > late > in the afternoon and you haven't even started to look around. I'm not > complaining, it was my own fault for not planning a more leisurely trip. > I > was trying to see too much in the one trip to Ireland. So slow down and > enjoy your heritage. >> >> By the way, if you trace your Enrights back to a Michael Enright who > married Mary Shanahan before 1815, please let me know. Several of their > descendants (mine included) emigrated in the late 1840s to Canada and then > later on to Minnesota. >> >> Rita >> >> In a message dated 2/18/2008 2:13:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > irl-limerick-request@rootsweb.com writes: >> Hi listers, >> >> I am planning a trip to Limerick this July. I have booked a flight >> and > a B&B for my stay. I plan to visit some cousins in the Clarina, Kildimo, > Patrickswell,Ballybrown, Tervoe area. I'm searching for Enright relatives > of > my Dad, John Enright who was born in Newtown on Nov. 11, 1888. I will > also > check out my Mom's place of birth, Shrule, Mayo. Her maiden name was > Rushe. >> I would appreciate any travel tips or suggestions as I am a recruit >> to > this. The last time I did any traveling the US Army paid for it. >> >> Thank you all. >> Pat >> Patrick Enright >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >> Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL > Living. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

In my newspaper gleaning there are a number of marriages in the early 1800s where the couple are married twice once in the Church of Ireland Church and once by the Catholic priest often at the bride's parents house. -- Regards Nick /Home/ http://members.iinet.net.au/~nickred/ <http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Enickred/> /Sites managed/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~registryofdeeds/index.html <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/%7Eregistryofdeeds/index.html> http://www.igrsoc.org/index.htm http://members.iinet.net.au/~nickred/majuratennis/ <http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Enickred/majuratennis/>