I did an IFHF search and need some help. Given the recent strict interpretation regarding discussing IFHF I wanted to repost this so it does not get lost. I think I have found my ancestor in the IFHF. I searched SEVEN different records before I found this one. Here is the short version of my family history in Ireland. According to the 1884 NYC death certificate Patrick Joseph Hannigan was born to Cornelius & Mary Hannigan. Where in County Limerick he was born is unknown as the only reference we have is based on the headstone on his grave at St. Raymond's Cemetery in NYC. I did a search and found this record. In fact, I looked at 7 different records before the names of the parents were even close. Now comes the fun part of trying to find out how to get more information about this family and to see if there is a possible link to the Patrick Hannigan that I am related to. How would I do able finding out more about Cornelius & Margaret and if they had other children? Is it possible to find out if Patk immigrated from Ireland to New York City? At his death in 1884 his death certificate and tomb stone indicated he was 44 years old. This would make him 46 if it is the correct person. Baptism Record: Patk Hannigan DOB: 06/03/1838 Father: Corn. Hannigan Mother: Margaret Riordan Parish/District: BULGADEN Sponsor1: Patk. Hannigan Sponsor2: Hanora Laffan I am not asking people to share their experience with IFHF. I am not asking people to share their records from IFHF. I am asking for *GENEALOGICAL HELP* regarding what I have found in a IFHF search. Any help on where to go from here is appreciated. John C Hannigan Jacksonville, Florida

Kat, If you are intersted Michael from the Limerick Library sent me a Map of Limerick in 1867 that shows St. Michaels Carla ----- Original Message ---- From: "littlehouseantiques@att.net" <littlehouseantiques@att.net> To: irl-limerick@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:07:09 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] [IRL-TIP] McAuliffe research Irish Family History Foundation(IFHF)web site Kat, The St. Michael's Church that I'm talking about where Rev. Timothy R. Shanahan was curate in 1863 is the Roman Catholic Church (situated at the bottom of Chapel Lane w/ the entrance to the church on Denmark St) The St. Michael's you are talking about in Pery Square (which isn't a square actually) is an Anglican (C of I) protestant church. Rev. Peacock was protestant not catholic. See: http://www.cathedral.limerick.anglican.org/StMichaels.html See: http://www.limerickdioceseheritage.org/StMichaels.htm see: http://www.limerickslife.com/churchesofthecity.htm -------- Original message from Kathy <sheehykathy@optonline.net>: -------- My ancestors married at St. Michael's - Pery Square - Limerick in 1867. The marriage was performed by Rev. Peacock. Kat - NJ - USA ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello again Mike, I have a book of Hospital & the history of it's environs, so I have had a quick look for you & this is what I have found: Book published 1995. A section that covers over 100 years ago from Guy's Postal directory 1889 shows these O'Briens Local Quarrier for sand stone etc Millfarm, stone, Patrick O'Brien Prop. Principal farmers Hospital, O'Brien, Millfarm Lodge. Griffiths Valuation.. Hospital Parish. Ballycahill (ord s.40) Matthew O'Brien. Town of Hospital. Patrick O'Brien Barrysfarm. John O'Brien Castlefarm. John O'Brien These O'Briens were in the Townlands & Occupiers section. Let me know if I can be of anymore help to you. Robyn maiden name Bresnan ----- Original Message ----- From: <mike@obrienclan.com> To: <irl-limerick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 10:24 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] O'Brien Research > Here are mine again plus the witnesses. > > Baptism Records: > William O'Brien 23/02/1824 > Parish: Hospital > Father: Kennedy O'Brien > Mother: Margaret O'Donnell > Denomination: Roman Catholic > Sponsor 1: Thos. White > Sponsor 2: Cath. O'Brien > > Catherine O'Brien 00/03/1829 > Parish: Galbally & Aherlow > Father: Thomas O'Brien > Mother: Ellen Noonan > Denomination: Roman Catholic > Sponsor 1: Thomas Brien > Sponsor 2: Margaret Brien > > Catherine O'Brien 26/02/1829 > Parish: Murroe & Boher > Father: Patrick O'Brien > Mother: Cath. Malley > Denomination: Roman Catholic > Sponsor 1: William O'Brien > Sponsor 2: Mgt. O'Brien > > Catherine O'Brien 05/04/1829 > Parish: Kilteely > Father: Thomas O'Brien > Mother: Bridget O'Sullivan > Denomination: Roman Catholic > Sponsor 1: James Laffan > Sponsor 2: Not recorded > > I purchased 40 Euro and used 30 before getting these four at 5 Euro each. > The William could be mine based on his obituary stating he was aged 40 in > Dec 1864. > One of the Catherine's could be mine based on her obituary stating she was > 67 on 5 Jan 1897. > > This is the closest I have come in years to finding my great grand > parents, > natives of Co Limerick. > > Mike > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The topic of posting IFHF records is closed. Any comments should be directed to me - not the list. Thanks, Christina filidh@carolina.rr.com

Why don't you just post the baptisms and marriages and not say who the middle-man was. The info comes from one source, the church registers, if I am right, but can be gotten through multiple sources, right?- LDS films, heritage centres, etc.- so who will know which. Just post it and not say IFHF. I do agree though it would be nice to have some additional search parameters to make it less of a crapshoot. my 2 cents -michael

Hello Mike, You have come across me before with dna testing. I have O'Briens as witnesses to family members, one a John O'Brien as witness to the baptism of John Bresnan 1823. Hospital. Another generation as sponsors to the children of Eugene Bresnihan & Honora Cleary Jane O,Brien 1872, Michael & Mary O'Brien 1881 Knockainey. Hospital & Knockainey are not far from one another. I don't know if there are records on line for Hospital or possibly they are held by the Tipperary Heritge Unit. Robyn ----- Original Message ----- From: <mike@obrienclan.com> To: <irl-limerick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 4:40 AM Subject: [IRL-LIMERICK] Hospital Parish records >I believe I may have located where my ancestors came from in Co Limerick. > > I have narrowed it down to Hospital Parish which I believe is part of the > Cashel & Emly Diocese. Don't know what town or village yet. > > How, and is it possible, to get records from this parish? > > I don't plan on going to Ireland until 2014 for our next Clan gathering > unless I hit the Lottory sooner. > > Any suggestions? > > Mike > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Kat, The St. Michael's Church that I'm talking about where Rev. Timothy R. Shanahan was curate in 1863 is the Roman Catholic Church (situated at the bottom of Chapel Lane w/ the entrance to the church on Denmark St) The St. Michael's you are talking about in Pery Square (which isn't a square actually) is an Anglican (C of I) protestant church. Rev. Peacock was protestant not catholic. See: http://www.cathedral.limerick.anglican.org/StMichaels.html See: http://www.limerickdioceseheritage.org/StMichaels.htm see: http://www.limerickslife.com/churchesofthecity.htm -------- Original message from Kathy <sheehykathy@optonline.net>: -------- My ancestors married at St. Michael's - Pery Square - Limerick in 1867. The marriage was performed by Rev. Peacock. Kat - NJ - USA

For those of you who are fairly new to the list - I wanted to make sure you know that you can search this lists archives which go back to basically 1999. Someone may have posted a long time ago about a family name your are interested in finding. http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=IRL-LIMERICK The search method for the lists is better than it used to be. Christina

Thanks, Beryl. I hadn't thought of that scenario! Murphy's Law does indeed apply to me, and to many many others, no doubt! Happy St.Patrick's Day Mags ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beryl O'Gorman" <bezbri@optusnet.com.au> To: <irl-limerick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] IFHF and missing records etc > People also baptised babies themselves if they were gravely ill. This was > permitted in the Catholic Church. The baptism should then have been > ratified > by the church and entered in the register of course but I'm sure there > were > many who didn't get around to it. My husband's great grandfather baptised > a > couple of his own children, but this has been noted in the Church > register. > Cheers > Beryl > > PS Also on St Patrick's Day you must remember Murphy's Law. If there's 1 > child out of 13 that wasn't registered, it will be the one you descended > from! <G> > > Beryl O'Gorman > Greensborough Victoria Australia > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Margaret Butler" <magsbutler@mrnoisy.plus.com> > To: <irl-limerick@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 12:25 AM > Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] IFHF and missing records etc > > >> Hi Maureen, >> I was interested to read what you said re.'Heritage centre...has most of >> her siblings, so I can't figure out why not her', and that you think she >> may have had a different first name. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > -- > This email has been verified as Virus free. > Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: > 17/03/2008 10:48 >

For anyone looking for Walsh: my g'mother was Catherine Walsh (1874-1939) but from Cty Galway so guess that's a long shot. She emigrated to NZ m. James Martin Casey. I have details. Kathleen NZ

HI Kat, Was St. Michael's RC or Protestant? I just got a copy of a map from 1865 of Limerick. My gggggrandfather Attorney John Fitzgerald was selling a house in Newton Pery. At the end of the article it said he was at George's Quay. I emailed the Limerick Library and Michael Maguire emailed me a copy of the article and the map. I have just emailed him to make sure it was okay to share the map with this group and my Ireland group. The map is really good. I can understand it a little bit more than other maps that I have seen before. Carla -----> So I think this is them. My Faunt/Fant line is often clustered either in > Fethard Tipp or the Kilmallock and Galbally area. > > I find very little about McAuliffe family though.. > > Anyone else have this family? > Happy St.Pat's > Kathleen Ingram >

My ancestors married at St. Michael's - Pery Square - Limerick in 1867. The marriage was performed by Rev. Peacock. Kat - NJ - USA ----- Original Message ----- From: <littlehouseantiques@att.net> To: <irl-tipperary@rootsweb.com>; <irl-limerick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-TIP] McAuliffe research Irish Family History Foundation(IFHF)web site > You're a Lucky Duck Kathleen! Who was the Priest at St. Michael's who > married your William FAUNT and Ellen LYNCH in 1863? I know who the > curate for St. Michael's in the city of Limerick was for that time period > is (one of my 4 SHANAHAN brothers / priests from Co Limerick that I've > been researching --Rev. Timothy R. Shanahan [c1828-1915]) and I'm just > curious who the priest was that married them. Would a curate have had > anything to do w/ the marriage ceremony? (Not exactly sure what a curate's > duties are, but gather that a curate is simply a priest who "assists" the > PP until he receives a church of his own, or something like that anyway). > > Kathy Rhodes > > -------------- Original message from "kathlingram" > <kathlingram@inteliport.com>: -------------- > Like Kathy I also caught a break and found my William Faunt and Ellen > Lynch > marriage which I have looked for for years: > They marry at St.Michael's Limerick 4/4 1863.I know from earlier records > that William is a soldier so maybe he was in the Barracks here.Since they > marry here and the first child, my ancestor Patrick is born here in 1865 I > figured Ellen is from Limerick.Also his brother Patrick comes "home" from > the Army to marry( Margaret Dwan from Fethard). > > I pulled all the age appropriate, geography appropriate ( East Limerick) > Ellen Lynchs.EEKK! Dollars floating away.. > I have always surmised her father is Michael.I find Ellen Lynch as > daughter > of Michael Lynch and Kate McAuliffe born Dec.1 4, 1843 in Rockhill/Bruree. > > So I think this is them. My Faunt/Fant line is often clustered either in > Fethard Tipp or the Kilmallock and Galbally area. > > I find very little about McAuliffe family though.. > > Anyone else have this family? > Happy St.Pat's > Kathleen Ingram > _______________________________________________________ > Websites for Tipperary: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~irltip2/ > http://www.rootsweb.com/~irltip/tipperary.htm > http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlarchive/tipperary/index.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-TIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

IFHF can claim a copyright for the formated information in their database that they gathered and transcribed to create it. If you pay them for some portion of their records, you can use them for your private use. There is a "fair use" provision of the copyright that would allow you some limited use of limited amounts of their copyrighted records which you could share to comment, critique, write a revue to share with others with some limited examples, etc. However, no one can copyright a fact, whether of a marriage, baptism, etc. A specific fact cannot be copyrighted. So you can take the information from their records of the facts and write them up in your own format for your family history and share that document with whomever you want. Indeed, you would own a copyright on that formated version of your own family history which nobody could legally "steal" and reuse without your permission. As good (family) historians, you should document the source of the fact(s) included (if you want to write good family history) noting whichever IFHF database it was sourced from. What you clearly cannot do is take your IFHF record information, gather it togerther with others' IFHF record information and share it around or publish it on the web or on this Limerick List for free (or for payment). That would be a clear violation of their copyright. I want to note that I am not a lwyer and the above isn't legal advice. It's my statement of personal understanding about copyright restrictions. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: <irl-limerick-request@rootsweb.com> To: <irl-limerick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 7:09 PM Subject: IRL-LIMERICK Digest, Vol 3, Issue 172 > > > Information Wanted: http://infowanted.bc.edu/ > > Today's Topics: > > 1. kings (marilyn miller) > 2. Re: Walsh (Kathleen Casey) > 3. Writing to Mr. Brennan about IFHF (Jan Fortado) > 4. !From ADMIN please read (Christina Hunt) > 5. Hogan married Gallagher (Attn. Carol Lubbers) (Jan Fortado) > 6. Re: [IRL-TIP] McAuliffe research Irish Family History > Foundation (IFHF)web site (littlehouseantiques@att.net) > 7. IFHF - RYAN / DONOVAN / McNAMARA (Paul D'Archangel) > 8. Re: !From ADMIN please read (mike@obrienclan.com) > 9. Copyright and Sharing IFHF records (littlehouseantiques@att.net) > 10. Re: !From ADMIN please read (littlehouseantiques@att.net) > 11. Re: !From ADMIN please read (JJ Woods) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:48:02 -0400 > From: "marilyn miller" <mreed24@thejerseyshore.net> > Subject: [IRL-LIMERICK] kings > To: <irl-limerick@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <004201c88867$d08909b0$20c064d0@nhbc2367> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > here are my king rejects: > > honora king, baptism 10/16/1843 > dunekenna, monagea, limerick > father william; mother hana hartnett > sponsor 1 mary king; sponsor 2 none recorded > > honora king, baptism 9/24/1848 > monagea, limerick > father bryan; mother margaret king > sponsor 1 mgt. king; sponsor 2 none > > honora king, baptism 6/14/1848 > dunekenna, monagea, limerick > father john; mother hana. kelly > sponsor 1 denis kelly; sponsor 2 hana. king > > honora king, baptism 6/16/1850 > ballymuragh, monogea, limerick > father michael; mother hana. shanahan > sponsor 1 rbt. cussen; sponsor 2 mgt. shanahan > > honora king, baptism 8/9/1850 > mt. catherine, pallasgreen, limerick > father james; mother bridget finnan > sponsor 1 mi mulcahy; sponsor 2 sa brien > > i have more rejects which i will share later or will send to anyone who > asks. marilyn miller, mreed24@thejerseyshore.net > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:49:02 +1300 > From: Kathleen Casey <CaseyKM@xtra.co.nz> > Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] Walsh > To: irl-limerick@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <47DED93E.3050203@xtra.co.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > For anyone looking for Walsh: my g'mother was Catherine Walsh > (1874-1939) but from Cty Galway so guess that's a long shot. She > emigrated to NZ m. James Martin Casey. I have details. > Kathleen > NZ > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:33:33 -0400 > From: "Jan Fortado" <janfortado@comcast.net> > Subject: [IRL-LIMERICK] Writing to Mr. Brennan about IFHF > To: <irl-limerick@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <006201c88876$8d803fd0$6501a8c0@family5q32jfmz> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Sean, thank you for that information. When I was at the genealogy > conference > in Boston two years ago, I spoke with one of the founders of the IFHF. I > asked why there was no heritage center in West Cork. He talked about > records > being indexed and "ready to go," but there was some type of problem that > involved politics. He told me the best way to be heard was to write to Mr. > Brennan. > > So it makes sense that if we would like to see changes on the IFHF, he > would > be the one to write to - to at least ask for a fair fee, whether or not it > be an annual membership fee. Pointing out the weaknesses of the site (too > many people with the same name and/or not having the other spouse's name > for > the marriage record), Mr. Brennan might see that the fees are too > expensive > at present. > > Jan > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:37:46 -0400 > From: Christina Hunt <filidh@carolina.rr.com> > Subject: [IRL-LIMERICK] !From ADMIN please read > To: LIMERICK <IRL-LIMERICK@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <2008317173746.678130@VALUED-3253602F> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I went to the IFHF website to see what their policy is on sharing the > records > from their website. > The following is in their copyright section. > Please refrain from posting any research results on the list. > Thanks. > Christina > List Admin Irl-Limerick > > You may not otherwise copy, modify, or distribute the contents of these > pages, > or publish, broadcast, transmit, or otherwise distribute any portion of > this > site without the express written authorization of the Irish Family History > Foundation. Any unauthorized use of this site or any content therein is > strictly > prohibited. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:10:25 -0400 > From: "Jan Fortado" <janfortado@comcast.net> > Subject: [IRL-LIMERICK] Hogan married Gallagher (Attn. Carol Lubbers) > To: <irl-limerick@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <009501c8887b$b400ded0$6501a8c0@family5q32jfmz> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I have two Gallaghers who married a Hogan (brothers marrying sisters). > > In 1868 Thomas Gallagher married Mary Hogan of Spittle. They were married > in > the RC church of Glenroe, which was most likely HER parish. > > In 1869 Ellen Gallagher of Kilcruaig married Michael Hogan of Spittle in > the > RC parish of Ballyorgan (her parish). > > Jan > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:12:20 +0000 > From: littlehouseantiques@att.net > Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] [IRL-TIP] McAuliffe research Irish Family > History Foundation (IFHF)web site > To: irl-tipperary@rootsweb.com;irl-limerick@rootsweb.com;;; > Message-ID: > <031720082212.26643.47DEECC30000FF130000681322230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF9C0A9A9E079B020E0A9C9A01080A049B9B0704@att.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain > > You're a Lucky Duck Kathleen! Who was the Priest at St. Michael's who > married your William FAUNT and Ellen LYNCH in 1863? I know who the > curate for St. Michael's in the city of Limerick was for that time period > is (one of my 4 SHANAHAN brothers / priests from Co Limerick that I've > been researching --Rev. Timothy R. Shanahan [c1828-1915]) and I'm just > curious who the priest was that married them. Would a curate have had > anything to do w/ the marriage ceremony? (Not exactly sure what a curate's > duties are, but gather that a curate is simply a priest who "assists" the > PP until he receives a church of his own, or something like that anyway). > > Kathy Rhodes > > -------------- Original message from "kathlingram" > <kathlingram@inteliport.com>: -------------- > Like Kathy I also caught a break and found my William Faunt and Ellen > Lynch > marriage which I have looked for for years: > They marry at St.Michael's Limerick 4/4 1863.I know from earlier records > that William is a soldier so maybe he was in the Barracks here.Since they > marry here and the first child, my ancestor Patrick is born here in 1865 I > figured Ellen is from Limerick.Also his brother Patrick comes "home" from > the Army to marry( Margaret Dwan from Fethard). > > I pulled all the age appropriate, geography appropriate ( East Limerick) > Ellen Lynchs.EEKK! Dollars floating away.. > I have always surmised her father is Michael.I find Ellen Lynch as > daughter > of Michael Lynch and Kate McAuliffe born Dec.1 4, 1843 in Rockhill/Bruree. > > So I think this is them. My Faunt/Fant line is often clustered either in > Fethard Tipp or the Kilmallock and Galbally area. > > I find very little about McAuliffe family though.. > > Anyone else have this family? > Happy St.Pat's > Kathleen Ingram > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:19:04 -0400 (EDT) > From: "Paul D'Archangel" <cutis181@lycos.com> > Subject: [IRL-LIMERICK] IFHF - RYAN / DONOVAN / McNAMARA > To: <irl-limerick@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: > <20080317181904.HM.0000000000001JJ@cutis181.bos-mail-wwl20.lycos.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:04:02 -0700 > From: <mike@obrienclan.com> > Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] !From ADMIN please read > To: <irl-limerick@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <001601c8887a$cf498a30$0a00a8c0@OBRIENM> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I would guess that since you paid for the information you have, it becomes > your property to do as you please making their copyright void as long as > you > don't try to re-sell their information, which we are not doing here. > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christina Hunt" <filidh@carolina.rr.com> > To: "LIMERICK" <IRL-LIMERICK@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 2:37 PM > Subject: [IRL-LIMERICK] !From ADMIN please read > > >>I went to the IFHF website to see what their policy is on sharing the >>records >> from their website. >> The following is in their copyright section. >> Please refrain from posting any research results on the list. >> Thanks. >> Christina >> List Admin Irl-Limerick >> >> You may not otherwise copy, modify, or distribute the contents of these >> pages, >> or publish, broadcast, transmit, or otherwise distribute any portion of >> this >> site without the express written authorization of the Irish Family >> History >> Foundation. Any unauthorized use of this site or any content therein is >> strictly >> prohibited. >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:45:10 +0000 > From: littlehouseantiques@att.net > Subject: [IRL-LIMERICK] Copyright and Sharing IFHF records > To: irl-limerick@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <031720082245.16579.47DEF475000A0C3C000040C322230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF9C0A9A9E079B020E0A9C9A01080A049B9B0704@att.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain > > Christina, I can't fault you for taking the responsible legal postition > here and feel you are exactly correct in doing so (but I do so wish you > hadn't!) Might I suggest that contact be made with the IFHF and that the > Limerick Mailing List try to obtain the "express written authorization" > that would make it legal and above board for us to 'share' with the List > Members the records THAT WE HAVE BEEN PAYING FOR???? They might say no, > but it wouldn't hurt to ask, would it? > > Also, should the IFHF deny the request to grant the Limerick Mailing List > "express written authorization" to share the records we obtain from them > with the List, would you have any problems with list members posting to > the List the surnames for records THAT WE HAVE BEEN PAYING FOR and > inviting others who are researching those surnames to contact us OFF LIST? > > Kathy Rhodes > > -------------- Original message from Christina Hunt > <filidh@carolina.rr.com>: -------------- > I went to the IFHF website to see what their policy is on sharing the > records > from their website. > The following is in their copyright section. > Please refrain from posting any research results on the list. > Thanks. > Christina > List Admin Irl-Limerick > > You may not otherwise copy, modify, or distribute the contents of these > pages, > or publish, broadcast, transmit, or otherwise distribute any portion of > this > site without the express written authorization of the Irish Family History > Foundation. Any unauthorized use of this site or any content therein is > strictly > prohibited. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:58:49 +0000 > From: littlehouseantiques@att.net > Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] !From ADMIN please read > To: mike@obrienclan.com, irl-limerick@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <031720082258.692.47DEF7A8000D5CFD000002B422230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF9C0A9A9E079B020E0A9C9A01080A049B9B0704@att.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain > > You assume erroneously that once you pay for information that it becomes > 'your' property. > You also assume incorrectly that you are not violating copyright law if > you do not re-sell > the information. By sharing the information (even though YOU paid for it) > you are denying > income to the person (or in this case company or corporation) who would > have MADE > money had you not provided it to others for FREE, so you see, even if you > do not sell it > you have, in fact, violated copyright law. There is NO way around this > legally unless the > Mailing List applys for and receives written permisson from the copyright > owner (IFHF). > > Kathy Rhodes > -------------- Original message from <mike@obrienclan.com>: -------------- > I would guess that since you paid for the information you have, it becomes > your property to do as you please making their copyright void as long as > you > don't try to re-sell their information, which we are not doing here. > > Mike > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:08:47 +0000 > From: "JJ Woods" <woodsjj@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [IRL-LIMERICK] !From ADMIN please read > To: irl-limerick@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <324e51970803171608j4077d0cq7fd3789908e26047@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > To my mind the information is not theirs (IFHF) to copyright! Do the > descendants of those named not have a right to the information about their > ancestors and which the IFHF are selling in order to make a profit? > > Again, to my mind, the only claim to copyright that the IFHF can make is > in > the unique manner or format of the presentation of this information and > NOT > the information itself. > > Who owns the information anyway? Surely not the IFHF! > > > > On 17/03/2008, littlehouseantiques@att.net <littlehouseantiques@att.net> > wrote: >> >> You assume erroneously that once you pay for information that it becomes >> 'your' property. >> You also assume incorrectly that you are not violating copyright law if >> you do not re-sell >> the information. By sharing the information (even though YOU paid for >> it) >> you are denying >> income to the person (or in this case company or corporation) who would >> have MADE >> money had you not provided it to others for FREE, so you see, even if you >> do not sell it >> you have, in fact, violated copyright law. There is NO way around this >> legally unless the >> Mailing List applys for and receives written permisson from the copyright >> owner (IFHF). >> >> Kathy Rhodes >> -------------- Original message from >> <mike@obrienclan.com>: -------------- >> I would guess that since you paid for the information you have, it >> becomes >> your property to do as you please making their copyright void as long as >> you >> don't try to re-sell their information, which we are not doing here. >> >> Mike >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the IRL-LIMERICK list administrator, send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the IRL-LIMERICK mailing list, send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of IRL-LIMERICK Digest, Vol 3, Issue 172 > ******************************************** >

Dear List, It occurred to me that since it the IFHF's posted Copyright Notice says, "You may not otherwise copy, modify, or distribute the contents of these pages, or publish, broadcast, transmit, or otherwise distribute any portion of this site without the express written authorization of the Irish Family History Foundation" that technically speaking this means that IF you pay for records for them AND you include the information in a personal family tree and quote them as your source AND you happen to publish this information as part of a personal family tree in a personal family web site ONLINE that you will, in fact, be violating their copyright. This seems a little ridiculous to me, so just out of curiosity I've written to them to ask what their stance on this issue is. Copy of my email appended below. Anybody care to place a wager on whether or not I'll receive a response? Kathy Rhodes -------------- Forwarded Message: -------------- From: littlehouseantiques@att.net To: info@ifhf.ie Subject: Question regarding your posted Copyright Notice Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:09:23 +0000 Irish Family History Foundation Karel Kiely, Secretary e-mail: info@ifhf.ie Irish Family History Foundation, c/o Riverbank, Main St., Newbridge, Co. Kildare Ireland Dear Ms. Kiely, I have a question regarding your posted copyright notice. If I pay for and receive marriage, birth, or death information from your site; may I reference the information obtained in a personal family tree that I have compiled and which I publish online at a personal family web site? Will I be violating your copyright if I do this? Thank you for your time and consideration. Sincerely, Kathy L. Rhodes 1760 Valley Green Road

To my mind the information is not theirs (IFHF) to copyright! Do the descendants of those named not have a right to the information about their ancestors and which the IFHF are selling in order to make a profit? Again, to my mind, the only claim to copyright that the IFHF can make is in the unique manner or format of the presentation of this information and NOT the information itself. Who owns the information anyway? Surely not the IFHF! On 17/03/2008, littlehouseantiques@att.net <littlehouseantiques@att.net> wrote: > > You assume erroneously that once you pay for information that it becomes > 'your' property. > You also assume incorrectly that you are not violating copyright law if > you do not re-sell > the information. By sharing the information (even though YOU paid for it) > you are denying > income to the person (or in this case company or corporation) who would > have MADE > money had you not provided it to others for FREE, so you see, even if you > do not sell it > you have, in fact, violated copyright law. There is NO way around this > legally unless the > Mailing List applys for and receives written permisson from the copyright > owner (IFHF). > > Kathy Rhodes > -------------- Original message from <mike@obrienclan.com>: -------------- > I would guess that since you paid for the information you have, it becomes > your property to do as you please making their copyright void as long as > you > don't try to re-sell their information, which we are not doing here. > > Mike > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

You assume erroneously that once you pay for information that it becomes 'your' property. You also assume incorrectly that you are not violating copyright law if you do not re-sell the information. By sharing the information (even though YOU paid for it) you are denying income to the person (or in this case company or corporation) who would have MADE money had you not provided it to others for FREE, so you see, even if you do not sell it you have, in fact, violated copyright law. There is NO way around this legally unless the Mailing List applys for and receives written permisson from the copyright owner (IFHF). Kathy Rhodes -------------- Original message from <mike@obrienclan.com>: -------------- I would guess that since you paid for the information you have, it becomes your property to do as you please making their copyright void as long as you don't try to re-sell their information, which we are not doing here. Mike

Hi I also agree it should be free or even have subscription maybe that would work but not the over the top with that either Regards jean On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 3:23 AM, JJ Woods <woodsjj@gmail.com> wrote: > Please read the following news item from Irish Times Newspaper. If any > person wishes to support Olivia Mitchell's call that the Genealogical > information should be free to all researchers , they should write in > support > to: > > Olivia Mitchell T. D. Dail Eireann , Leinster House , Kildare Street, > Dublin > 2. > > *email; Olivia.Mitchell@finegael.ie* > ** > *or* > ** > *Irish Times Newspaper, 24-28 Tara Street, Dublin 2 * > *news@irish-times.ie* > **** > *Date:* 13 March 2008 > *Publication:* The Irish Times > *SUMMARY:* The launch of a new national genealogy service that will charge > people for every public record accessed has been criticised as a > "betrayal" > of the long-established tradition that public information in this country > should be available free of charge. > *ORIGINAL ARTICLE:* The new all-Ireland central database of genealogical > records was launched yesterday by the Minister for Arts, Sports and > Tourism, > Seamus Brennan, and the Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland, Martin > McGuinness, at a ceremony on the Jeanie Johnston, the replica Famine-era > sailing ship moored in Dublin. > > The website, sponsored by the Irish Family History Association, > contains 8.6million birth, baptismal and deaths records from the 1600s > to the 1900s > obtained from a variety of State and church archives. > > However, Fine Gael spokeswoman for Arts, Sports and Tourism, Olivia > Mitchell, said that it was very regrettable that the new genealogy service > was designed to be a commercial one with people being charged EUR 10 for > every single item of information. "The gathering and digitisation of the > parish records was done at public expense and it was always envisaged that > this kind of public information should be made freely available to the > public. > > "It is a complete break with tradition and practice that an important > aspect > of our national archives should be subject to a charge. > > "We have prided ourselves on free access to our archives, to our national > museums and to the National Gallery. I am surprised that the Minister > should > lend his name to this betrayal by performing the launch of the online > service," said Ms Mitchell. > > She said that an online service was long overdue. > > But Ms Mitchell called for the information to be given to the National > Archives as an integral part of the public information service it > provides. > > She added that she had no objection to the Irish Family History > Association > charging a fee to people who commissioned it to carry out research, but it > was utterly unacceptable that Irish citizens be charged for accessing > their > own family records assembled at public expense. > > The association said in a statement that the bulk of the computerisation > of > genealogical material had been completed by county centres and that the > collation of many millions of records as a searchable database online was > a > remarkable achievement. > > So far, 22 county centres had made their databases available online and it > was planned that further centres would be added, the association added. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-LIMERICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Kind regards Jean

Christina, I can't fault you for taking the responsible legal postition here and feel you are exactly correct in doing so (but I do so wish you hadn't!) Might I suggest that contact be made with the IFHF and that the Limerick Mailing List try to obtain the "express written authorization" that would make it legal and above board for us to 'share' with the List Members the records THAT WE HAVE BEEN PAYING FOR???? They might say no, but it wouldn't hurt to ask, would it? Also, should the IFHF deny the request to grant the Limerick Mailing List "express written authorization" to share the records we obtain from them with the List, would you have any problems with list members posting to the List the surnames for records THAT WE HAVE BEEN PAYING FOR and inviting others who are researching those surnames to contact us OFF LIST? Kathy Rhodes -------------- Original message from Christina Hunt <filidh@carolina.rr.com>: -------------- I went to the IFHF website to see what their policy is on sharing the records from their website. The following is in their copyright section. Please refrain from posting any research results on the list. Thanks. Christina List Admin Irl-Limerick You may not otherwise copy, modify, or distribute the contents of these pages, or publish, broadcast, transmit, or otherwise distribute any portion of this site without the express written authorization of the Irish Family History Foundation. Any unauthorized use of this site or any content therein is strictly prohibited.

You're a Lucky Duck Kathleen! Who was the Priest at St. Michael's who married your William FAUNT and Ellen LYNCH in 1863? I know who the curate for St. Michael's in the city of Limerick was for that time period is (one of my 4 SHANAHAN brothers / priests from Co Limerick that I've been researching --Rev. Timothy R. Shanahan [c1828-1915]) and I'm just curious who the priest was that married them. Would a curate have had anything to do w/ the marriage ceremony? (Not exactly sure what a curate's duties are, but gather that a curate is simply a priest who "assists" the PP until he receives a church of his own, or something like that anyway). Kathy Rhodes -------------- Original message from "kathlingram" <kathlingram@inteliport.com>: -------------- Like Kathy I also caught a break and found my William Faunt and Ellen Lynch marriage which I have looked for for years: They marry at St.Michael's Limerick 4/4 1863.I know from earlier records that William is a soldier so maybe he was in the Barracks here.Since they marry here and the first child, my ancestor Patrick is born here in 1865 I figured Ellen is from Limerick.Also his brother Patrick comes "home" from the Army to marry( Margaret Dwan from Fethard). I pulled all the age appropriate, geography appropriate ( East Limerick) Ellen Lynchs.EEKK! Dollars floating away.. I have always surmised her father is Michael.I find Ellen Lynch as daughter of Michael Lynch and Kate McAuliffe born Dec.1 4, 1843 in Rockhill/Bruree. So I think this is them. My Faunt/Fant line is often clustered either in Fethard Tipp or the Kilmallock and Galbally area. I find very little about McAuliffe family though.. Anyone else have this family? Happy St.Pat's Kathleen Ingram

Kathleen: My McAuliffe ancestors were born in Newcastle West in Limerick. My g-grandfather David's father was Daniel McAuliffe and his mother was Catherine Curtin. Two Daniels, father and son lived on Knockaun Road two houses apart according to the Griffith's and Curtins were just down the same road. David and Margaret Jones also of Limerick, were married in 1853 in Marylebone, Middlesex, (London) and immigrated to Ontario, Canada about 1855. I have their downline from there. The McAuliffe name came out of the McCarthy Clan in Cork in 1214 and by the 1800s were all over Munster. By that time there were also many in Kerry around Castle Island, but Newmarket, Co. Cork is still Clan HQ. I too would love to trace more information on David's siblings. At the moment a vision problem restricts my work. Andy McAuliffe, Kitchener, Ontario, Canada