This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Eilis_OHara Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.ireland.lex.general/2597.1.1.3.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Kevin, You'll need to go beyond the English census returns to search Patrick and Mary's civil and church records there and their children's to find out where in Co. Laois Patrick and Mary were born. There are no census records surviving here before 1901 and their dates of birth are before civil registration of births started in Ireland in 1864. Church parish records for their birthplaces in County Laois would be the possible sources for their baptismal records if the church parish records survive for their birthplaces in County Laois. There's a list of the names of the towns and townlands in County Laois at the Ireland Townland Database http://www.seanruad.com and pick Queens County as your search county. What was their religious denomination? You mention first that Patrick and Mary were married in Ireland and had two children in Ireland, Mary and James. They then had seven more children in County Durham, England. However you mention later that Patrick and Mary weren't married until 1871 and that Mary and unknown husband had three children Mary, James and Edward and then a subsequent fourth child in County Durham, England. There should be a death record for Mary's first husband in England. That should confirm his surname. Those Irish born children should all be listed in the England census and are probably there through 1911. Look at their census records in England to see if they include their birthplaces in Ireland. Mary's wedding cert in County Durham in 1871 should include her surname before the marriage. Patrick and Mary's church marriage record may include baptismal information from their home parish in County Laois regarding affirming they were baptised and the name of the parish they were baptised in. Their civil and church death records, cemetery records, wills and obituaries may include where they were born in Co. Laois. Their children's church baptismal records may include where their parents were born in Co. Laois. You also need to research the civil and church records in England of the lodger in the 1871 England Census named Pat Kenny living with Mary. Subsequent England census records may show where in Co. Laois he was born, his civil and church marriage records may help confirm what his relationship might have been to Mary (same parents names, same birthplace in Co. Laois), his civil and church death records, cemetery record, tombstone, will and obituary may also confirm his birthplace in Co. Laois and his parents names. Regards. Eilis O'Hara Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.