Wouldn't it be great if we could all meet in Castlecomer and hear Mass while standing on the graves of our ancestors! I don't know how my Church of Ireland ancestors in St. Mary's cemetary would take to a Roman Catholic descendant posturing on their grave. Happy Christmas to all Castlecomer progeny! Tom Draper

Eileen (Kearney) O`Mahony nee Owens died in Blackburn Lancashire on December 11th 2010. R.I.P -----Original Message----- From: irl-kil-castlecomer-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-kil-castlecomer-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of irl-kil-castlecomer-request@rootsweb.com Sent: 15 December 2010 08:00 To: irl-kil-castlecomer@rootsweb.com Subject: IRL-KIL-CASTLECOMER Digest, Vol 5, Issue 93 Today's Topics: 1. Death Notice,Patrick Dowd,Moneenroe (JackLangton@aol.com) 2. Castlecomer customs (Deborah Fox) 3. Re: Castlecomer customs (JackLangton@aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 10:32:35 EST From: JackLangton@aol.com Subject: [IRL-KIL-CASTLECOMER] Death Notice,Patrick Dowd,Moneenroe To: Irl-Kil-Castlecomer@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <c40da.2292d8b3.3a38e813@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" The death has occurred of Patrick DOWD of The Glen, Moneenroe, Castlecomer, Kilkenny Reposing at his residence. Funeral Prayers this Tuesday evening at 7pm followed by removal to the Church of the Sacred Heart, Moneenroe. Requiem Mass on Wednesday morning at 11am. Burial afterwards in the adjoining cemetery. Date published: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 Date of death: Monday, December 13, 2010 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 15:04:00 -0500 From: "Deborah Fox" <deborahlargefox@verizon.net> Subject: [IRL-KIL-CASTLECOMER] Castlecomer customs To: <irl-kil-castlecomer@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <1E8BA80F889B42FC80BD5E7FA5D373CA@DellXPS> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Got to wondering today if there are any Christmas/New Year/winter customs that are peculiar to the Castlecomer region? Any going back into the 1800's? Deb Deborah Large Fox Help! The Faerie Folk Hid My Ancestors! This week: Family Feuds and Hurt Feelings http://irishfamilyresearch.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 17:21:20 EST From: JackLangton@aol.com Subject: Re: [IRL-KIL-CASTLECOMER] Castlecomer customs To: irl-kil-castlecomer@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <e0377.5ea6468.3a3947e0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Deb, The January 1 Castlecomer Wellie Race has been going on for over 30 years, and seems to be getting bigger every year. A good site to read up on it is _http://www.wellierace.com/index.php?page=History_ (http://www.wellierace.com/index.php?page=History) Another custom is the graveyard Mass, but it's held in more temperate months. The Mass is said outdoors, with each family standing by the grave(s) of their ancestors It usually attracts quite a large crowd, and serves also to make sure the graveyard remains shipshape. I'm sure there's other customs/traditions, maybe a home-town Castlecomer lister can fill us all in. Jack Langton ------------------------------ To contact the IRL-KIL-CASTLECOMER list administrator, send an email to IRL-KIL-CASTLECOMER-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the IRL-KIL-CASTLECOMER mailing list, send an email to IRL-KIL-CASTLECOMER@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KIL-CASTLECOMER-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of IRL-KIL-CASTLECOMER Digest, Vol 5, Issue 93 **************************************************

Deb, The January 1 Castlecomer Wellie Race has been going on for over 30 years, and seems to be getting bigger every year. A good site to read up on it is _http://www.wellierace.com/index.php?page=History_ (http://www.wellierace.com/index.php?page=History) Another custom is the graveyard Mass, but it's held in more temperate months. The Mass is said outdoors, with each family standing by the grave(s) of their ancestors It usually attracts quite a large crowd, and serves also to make sure the graveyard remains shipshape. I'm sure there's other customs/traditions, maybe a home-town Castlecomer lister can fill us all in. Jack Langton

Got to wondering today if there are any Christmas/New Year/winter customs that are peculiar to the Castlecomer region? Any going back into the 1800's? Deb Deborah Large Fox Help! The Faerie Folk Hid My Ancestors! This week: Family Feuds and Hurt Feelings http://irishfamilyresearch.blogspot.com

The death has occurred of Patrick DOWD of The Glen, Moneenroe, Castlecomer, Kilkenny Reposing at his residence. Funeral Prayers this Tuesday evening at 7pm followed by removal to the Church of the Sacred Heart, Moneenroe. Requiem Mass on Wednesday morning at 11am. Burial afterwards in the adjoining cemetery. Date published: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 Date of death: Monday, December 13, 2010

The death has occurred of Paddy LOVE of Boneyarrow, Clogh, Castlecomer, Kilkenny Reposing at his residence with Funeral Prayers this Friday evening at 6.15pm, followed by removal to St Patrick's Church, Clogh arriving at 7pm. Funeral Mass tomorrow, Saturday morning, at 11am. Burial afterwards in the adjoining cemetery. Paddy was the Clogh village cobbler for lo these many years. Date published: Friday, December 10, 2010 Date of death: Thursday, December 09, 2010

Searching for information on Mary Kenny born circa 1835 in Castlecomer, Kilkenny, Ireland; She was the daughter of Patrick and Mary Kenny, her father reputabley a school teacher in Castlecomer. She came as an Irish Orphan to Australia in 1849 on the Lismoyne. Regards Annie

These words/expressions are coming back to me in dribs and drabs. Another one was my Castlecomer cousin's use of the word "woeful", as in "That lad's feet are woeful big." Her daughters would get a big laugh out of that. What struck me about it, I think that term is used in the Appalachia coalmining area in exactly the same way. Fascinating to see my cousin routinely texting Australia, and yet using those long ago expressions. Don't know if you've seen it, but the Northumberland Co., Penn. website has a section devoted to regional expressions, coal patch towns, etc. It is rich in Polish, Irish, and other linquistic terms. Go to _http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~panorthu/_ (http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~panorthu/) and scroll down and click on Coal Region then click on Coal Speak, Recipes, Patch Towns and more. Jack

Interesting post, Jack. It is fascinating how our genealogy can be expressed in speech patterns and spoken phrases. A rich tapestry indeed! I have tried to drop the multiple "like's" littering my speech, but I have kept my other patterns, perhaps because I am ornery and stubborn. Even my daughters make fun of me at times. When they were young they would make me say certain words for the entertainment of friends and family. LOL Knowing these other pronunciations can help our research. There is a Gaelic speaker who attends one of my genealogy classes. He has helped quite a few of the members with their research by alerting them to alternate spellings they had not been aware of because they did not realize how the surname might be pronounced in Ireland. Deb Deborah Large Fox Help! The Faerie Folk Hid My Ancestors! http://irishfamilyresearch.blogspot.com

Hi Deb, I'm guessing that the clerks may have heard Larch instead of Large because it would be more popular as a surname, but only a guess. I don't recall a heavy "ge" being prevalent in the Castlecomer area. That's not to say all surnames in the area were pronounced there as they are here in the U.S. Northeast. For example, Neill and O'Neill were Nail Comerford was Comford McGrath was McGraw or McGrah Mahon was Mann Behan was Bean Boyle and Doyle were Bile and Dial and so on Your memory of saying "my-ann" for "mine" reminded me that my cousins would say "own-ded" for "owned"', or "ar-ums" for "arms", and they would say "She's gone shopping, so she has." or "He'll be back soon, so he will." I'm sure there's more, i'll have to give it some thought. My mother's family came from the coalmining region of Pennsylvania, (Shamokin area) they were there about 40 years. Of course my father was from the Castlecomer coalmining area so I can't say which of their expressions were from Ireland or from the U.S., but they were a rich tapestry and I still use them every day of my life. Jack

i think I recall the BBC site at at one time had excerpts you could listen to over the web of speakers from various parts of England, speakers not only by area but also some from various ranks of society. Dont know if anything like that exists for Ireland. On 29/11/2010 2:55 AM, Deborah Fox wrote: > I received some interesting replies (thanks everyone) to my Kieran/Kearn > question, leading to an "aha!" moment. I had always thought of pronouncing > the "Kier" as rhyming with "ear." Mary Elizabeth alerted me to the > possibility of its sounding like "car." Which leads me to these questions: > what are the characteristics of speech in the Castlecomer area? Are there > certain ways of pronouncing certain letters or words? An accent? Way of > speaking fast or slow? Something that distinguishes the speaker as being > from the area? My own "ear" for speech is not great (don't ever ask me to > sing), but I can usually distinguish a Derry speaker from a Cork speaker. I > know I am not using the correct linguistic terminology, but like yoose all > know whut I mean, like how us Philly people root for the Iggles football > team and like how we drink warter. Deb > Deborah Large Fox Help! The Faerie Folk Hid My Ancestors! > http://irishfamilyresearch.blogspot.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KIL-CASTLECOMER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

When my Castlecomer Large great grandfather and his brother were naturalized, the clerks both times wrote "Larch" instead of "Large," so I see a regional variation possible there. Probably a very heavy "ge" when the men spoke? I attended a rather snooty law school, and was constantly corrected for my pronunciation of certain words, which made me start to notice how my family spoke. One of the words for which I got grief was "mine" meaning possession. I still say "my-ann" and so did my dad's family. But when I refer to the coal mines, I say it in one syllable. We also said the store brand "Acme" as "Ak-a-me." So I guess we tend to break one syllable words into two. Whether this developed in the coal region of Pennsylvania or harkened back to Ireland, I often wondered. They were only in the PA coal region for one generation. Deb Deborah Large Fox Help! The Faerie Folk Hid My Ancestors! http://irishfamilyresearch.blogspot.com

Pat. St. Kieran of Saighiar (Sier) is patron saint of the Diocese of Ossory which is comprised of the county of Kilkenny, part of county Laois and what we refer to as the island parish of Seir Kieran. I think the name Kieran is often written as Kieron and Kyran but I have never heard of the spelling Queran, Kiran, Kyan or Kearn. Very often immigration clerks spelled names as they heard them which might account for the last four variations. The Gaelic version is Ciarán. Máire Downey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Connors" <nymets11@pacbell.net> To: <irl-kil-castlecomer@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-KIL-CASTLECOMER] name of Kieran Deb, this is what I found in, 'Irish First Names' by Ronan Coglan *Kieran* (Ciará), male, 'little dark one', St. Kieran was an Irish bishop who, it is said, may have antedated St. Patrick and been a hermit at Saighiar. St. Kieran's birthplace was Cape Clear, a vicinity particularly associated with this first name. Another St. Kiernan founded the great monastery of Clonmacnoise. The name in both its English and Irish forms is popular today. Keiron, Queran and Kyran are variants. > Does anyone on the list know if the name Kieran is the same name as Kearn > and Kyran? -- Pat Connors, Sacramento, CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KIL-CASTLECOMER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Deb, Unfortunately I haven't spent a long enough time in Castlecomer to learn what expressions are spoken there only, as opposed to Ireland in general. I do know that the Keir in Kieran is spoken there to rhyme with ear, the second syllable is sometimes "en", sometimes "ahn". And of course there are lots of local expressions that have been carried down through the generations, but many are dying out. I remember words like "berlo", which I recall was none too complimentary, and "stook", which had something to do with carrying a grudge, and lots more, wish I could remember them, they were very apt and very funny. Jack Langton

I received some interesting replies (thanks everyone) to my Kieran/Kearn question, leading to an "aha!" moment. I had always thought of pronouncing the "Kier" as rhyming with "ear." Mary Elizabeth alerted me to the possibility of its sounding like "car." Which leads me to these questions: what are the characteristics of speech in the Castlecomer area? Are there certain ways of pronouncing certain letters or words? An accent? Way of speaking fast or slow? Something that distinguishes the speaker as being from the area? My own "ear" for speech is not great (don't ever ask me to sing), but I can usually distinguish a Derry speaker from a Cork speaker. I know I am not using the correct linguistic terminology, but like yoose all know whut I mean, like how us Philly people root for the Iggles football team and like how we drink warter. Deb Deborah Large Fox Help! The Faerie Folk Hid My Ancestors! http://irishfamilyresearch.blogspot.com

Deb, this is what I found in, 'Irish First Names' by Ronan Coglan *Kieran* (Ciará), male, 'little dark one', St. Kieran was an Irish bishop who, it is said, may have antedated St. Patrick and been a hermit at Saighiar. St. Kieran's birthplace was Cape Clear, a vicinity particularly associated with this first name. Another St. Kiernan founded the great monastery of Clonmacnoise. The name in both its English and Irish forms is popular today. Keiron, Queran and Kyran are variants. > Does anyone on the list know if the name Kieran is the same name as Kearn > and Kyran? -- Pat Connors, Sacramento, CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

Hi Deb, I have seen the same people have their first name in the census spelled both Kieran and Kyran, but never Kearn. Jack Langton

Hi Deb, It has been my experience that either of these spellings, Kyran or Kearn, could be preceived as being Kieran. This is based on my genealogy endeavors since I have two lines of the name McKernan/McKiernan, (one of whom married a Muldowney of Kilkenny ancestry), from two different counties in Ireland. I've been working on these lines for over ten year now. I've seen many different spelling of the name. Depending on who was literate enough to keep records, in various sections of Ireland and local dialects, the record keepers spelled names as they heard them. Although the name Kearn may not seem to fit with Kieran, I can see where a particular pronouncation might be heard as a hard K, with an EAR -- which spellings could also have been Keeran/Keernan. Often the dialects may drop or add a letter. As for the name Kyran, it could be taken as Kiran - the y and i, the e dropped. About two years ago, I went searching for the name Kyan. Don't recall the numerous websites I checked at the time, but evenually I discovered this too was also derived from the root name of Kernan/Kiernan. The reason I was looking was our daughter named our first grandchild Kyan. Don't think she ever had a clue at the time as to the root of the name. So anything is possible when it comes to spelling Kieran. But I would like to point out the name Kearn, depending on whether the K is hard or soft, could be precived as also being connected with the name Carney or Kearney (in my husband's line in Co. Louth). As you are probably well aware, the spellings and dialects of surnames can drive us all crazy! Mary Elizabeth

Does anyone on the list know if the name Kieran is the same name as Kearn and Kyran? Thanks, Deb Deborah Large Fox Help! The Faerie Folk Hid My Ancestors! http://irishfamilyresearch.blogspot.com

FIRST COMPENSATION PAYMENTS ISSUED TO FORMER MINERS. >From the Castlecomer Forum: National Coalminers Group Vice-Chairman Seamus Walsh is delighted with the news that the first compensation payments are being issued by the Department of Social Protection to former miners. Seamus and fellow executive local members Peter Kealy and Cllr. Maurice Shortall have been lobbying on the miners behalf for many years. The cases currently being prioritised are former miners suffering from Pneumoconiosis, a disease resulting from breathing coal dust. Date of this item added : 2010-11-25