In a message dated 5/14/2007 11:51:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mary@msimpson.demon.co.uk writes: 2. That there was much trading with people sailing from North Africa and Iberia, with the usual consequences....... And " lace curtain Irish " was always used as a put-down by my mother, who certainly was an expert! Slan, Mary Well, my family never used terms like that. My Mom once yelled at my brother for calling someone shanty; but when I asked her exactly what we'd be called, she said "Strong immigrant stock" That's always been good enough for me! I think that the people who considered themselves a 'step up' from the rest of us thought of themselves as lace curtain, and everyone else used it as a put-down. Suppose it depends on where you lived. Noreen in NY ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.