Good Morning Kerry Folk [wherever you are]: I read all of Ray Marshall's composition and picked up on the 'Kerry List Archives' matter and accessed some of the postings from some years back. The "narrow-back" topic had been debated ca. 2000 - 2003 and I went looking for the explanation I though most apt. Well I didn't find it. But, I got myself interested in some of the "off topic" business of some time ago and decided to re-post a particular item that had me engrossed then and now. From: "John L. Sweeney" < sweelab@enter.net> Subject: [KER] beating a dead horse Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 19:38:38 -0400 Dear Kerry List people: "Where did you get that bit of history", etc. has been asked me. "Beating a dead horse", history of its origins recorded. My Uncle Paddy's granduncle [his grandfather's older brother] Phil O'Connell, from Meen, Co. Kerry ran a trading post at what is now Spirit River in Alberta. He had a going business trading Irish Whiskey from Cork and Pocheen from Kerry to the locals [Russian trappers and Indians] for whatever goods they brought in. He would have 2 large shipments of Irish whiskey & Pocheen picked up at Prince Rupert, British Columbia in June and September that had come there originally on sailing ships from Cork and Fenit via San Francisco. He was [unlike Paddy] reported to be well liked and respected by the locals. He never distilled his own booze primarily because he was afraid of fire and that was a necessity to distill anything, no potatoes grew in the forests and Phil was basically a lazy man [like Paddy] anyway. When the Gendarmerie royal du Canada drove the "Whiskey Boys" out of what is now Alberta and nearby provinces and took over their booze business, Phil stayed "in trade" and it grew over another 20+ years. The locals didn't like The Crown's product which didn't include Vodka nor the price they had to pay for it that included alot of duty or taxes. Phil named his place "Spirit River" because the Indians respected anything to do with "Spirits", his trading post was on a river and its biggest seller was "spirits". Phil told the Russians that "Pocheen" was Gaelic for Vodka and it tasted the same anyway [still does]. Easy access via canoe suited the locals. Word of his lower prices and the superiority of "Phil's spirits" [alternatively "fire water" or "waadkaa"] spread N.S.E. & W. and for about 4 month's a year he did very well. The other 8 months of the year, he and nothing else could move anyway, everything was frozen and covered with snow and this suited Phil too [being rather lazy]. Eventually Phil joined the real spirits, had fathered 17 children, out-lived 3 wives and drunk about 10% of his own product every year. Phil [like Uncle Paddy] loved Irish whiskey, especially over 8 months of the years between 1865 and 1894 [didn't like Pocheen except as a fuel for the many lanterns in the post]-(Phil's eyesight needed alot of light). Uncle Paddy said he was very fond of his grandfather [he died before Paddy was born, so figure that], never knew his grandfather's brothers [some were still living] but they didn't think much of Paddy [nor did anyone else]. For some reason Uncle Paddy was left [by his grandfather] with Phil's old annual letters to his Kerry family. Paddy had read them over and over from childhood and knew them "by heart". By the time I heard about Phil his letters had practically turned to dust so it was a good thing that Paddy had read them many times. It was at his leg's length, as a child, I'd heard Phil's account of the goings on in that part of the world, at that time [Paddy had kicked out at me on a few occasions and I made sure to keep away from him but I loved to listen to his stories]. The minutes of the Tribal Meeting prior to the treaty were related verbally by many sources [none Russian though] who had stopped by Phil's trading post to do business. Phil had written his people "home" about his life and those times in NW Canada. So, that's how I initially learned about the origin of the expression "beating a dead horse", from Uncle Paddy. Love, Jack Sweeney, exhausted in Palmer, Pennsylvania.

Well, that was worth waiting for, wasn't it? Actually one of the reason that Jack and I have not been so active is that we have become addicted to "Stork Watching" at a remote site in Poland. http://bocian.polska.pl/transmisja2.htm Click on "transmisia na zywo" That'll quiet the list down! Ray In overcast, Minneapolis, where the fisherpersons came back to town with full stringers. -----Original Message----- From: John L. Sweeney [mailto:sweelab@enter.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 9:55 AM To: Ray Marshall; Kerry List Subject: [IRL-KERRY] IRISH EXPRESSIONS Good Morning Kerry Folk [wherever you are]: I read all of Ray Marshall's composition and picked up on the 'Kerry List Archives' matter and accessed some of the postings from some years back. The "narrow-back" topic had been debated ca. 2000 - 2003 and I went looking for the explanation I though most apt. Well I didn't find it. But, I got myself interested in some of the "off topic" business of some time ago and decided to re-post a particular item that had me engrossed then and now. From: "John L. Sweeney" < sweelab@enter.net> Subject: [KER] beating a dead horse Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 19:38:38 -0400 Dear Kerry List people: "Where did you get that bit of history", etc. has been asked me. "Beating a dead horse", history of its origins recorded. My Uncle Paddy's granduncle [his grandfather's older brother] Phil O'Connell, from Meen, Co. Kerry ran a trading post at what is now Spirit River in Alberta. He had a going business trading Irish Whiskey from Cork and Pocheen from Kerry to the locals [Russian trappers and Indians] for whatever goods they brought in. He would have 2 large shipments of Irish whiskey & Pocheen picked up at Prince Rupert, British Columbia in June and September that had come there originally on sailing ships from Cork and Fenit via San Francisco. He was [unlike Paddy] reported to be well liked and respected by the locals. He never distilled his own booze primarily because he was afraid of fire and that was a necessity to distill anything, no potatoes grew in the forests and Phil was basically a lazy man [like Paddy] anyway. When the Gendarmerie royal du Canada drove the "Whiskey Boys" out of what is now Alberta and nearby provinces and took over their booze business, Phil stayed "in trade" and it grew over another 20+ years. The locals didn't like The Crown's product which didn't include Vodka nor the price they had to pay for it that included alot of duty or taxes. Phil named his place "Spirit River" because the Indians respected anything to do with "Spirits", his trading post was on a river and its biggest seller was "spirits". Phil told the Russians that "Pocheen" was Gaelic for Vodka and it tasted the same anyway [still does]. Easy access via canoe suited the locals. Word of his lower prices and the superiority of "Phil's spirits" [alternatively "fire water" or "waadkaa"] spread N.S.E. & W. and for about 4 month's a year he did very well. The other 8 months of the year, he and nothing else could move anyway, everything was frozen and covered with snow and this suited Phil too [being rather lazy]. Eventually Phil joined the real spirits, had fathered 17 children, out-lived 3 wives and drunk about 10% of his own product every year. Phil [like Uncle Paddy] loved Irish whiskey, especially over 8 months of the years between 1865 and 1894 [didn't like Pocheen except as a fuel for the many lanterns in the post]-(Phil's eyesight needed alot of light). Uncle Paddy said he was very fond of his grandfather [he died before Paddy was born, so figure that], never knew his grandfather's brothers [some were still living] but they didn't think much of Paddy [nor did anyone else]. For some reason Uncle Paddy was left [by his grandfather] with Phil's old annual letters to his Kerry family. Paddy had read them over and over from childhood and knew them "by heart". By the time I heard about Phil his letters had practically turned to dust so it was a good thing that Paddy had read them many times. It was at his leg's length, as a child, I'd heard Phil's account of the goings on in that part of the world, at that time [Paddy had kicked out at me on a few occasions and I made sure to keep away from him but I loved to listen to his stories]. The minutes of the Tribal Meeting prior to the treaty were related verbally by many sources [none Russian though] who had stopped by Phil's trading post to do business. Phil had written his people "home" about his life and those times in NW Canada. So, that's how I initially learned about the origin of the expression "beating a dead horse", from Uncle Paddy. Love, Jack Sweeney, exhausted in Palmer, Pennsylvania. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/804 - Release Date: 5/14/2007 4:46 PM