It is correct that the original census returns 1841-1891 were destroyed by order of the British Government, but the statistics gained from those returns were kept and some at least were published and are available. It is over 20 years since I used these statistics and I was only researching the changes in population and housing in North Kerry between 1841 and 1851. The results were published in 3 large volumes by the Irish Universities Press, which should be available in most large libraries and universities. I'm sorry that I no longer have the full reference John Buckley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Marshall" <[email protected]> To: "'marysimpson'" <[email protected]> Cc: "Kerry List" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] regarding Griffith's lists maps and KillarneyWorkHouse Guardian Minutes > > > > Mary > > I'd have to do some research to answer your first question. First, I'd > need to know exactly what you are looking at. > > Your second question is much easier. Frankly, those who leased (very > few Irish farmers owned their property and they paid outrageous lease > payments) 20 acres or more of land were fairly prosperous and didn't > suffer nearly as much as the "cotters", those who perhaps had only 1 > acre of land. When the crops failed on these "gardens", it was a > disaster for the cotters. > > A long time ago, I found a fabulous tidbit of Irish history that has > some Irish population figures for 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871, etc. through > 1911. We have all been led to believe that the census returns for those > years were destroyed,. That is correct, but at least in the snippet > that I found, and sadly I neglected to record where I found it, this > might have been as long as 12 or more years ago, where the gross census > figures were transcribed by somebody. > > The Castleisland civil parish townlands of Ahane, Ahneboy, Ballyduff, > Beheenagh, Broughane, Feaufvatia, Gortroe, Knockachur, Knockariddera and > Knockbrack were listed. > > In brief, the following townlands had dramatic decreases of population > (due to deaths or emigratiion, it can't be determined; probably a > combination of both) between 1841 and 1851: > > Ballyduff, 331 to 113 > Beheenagh, 282 to 184 > Gortroe 107 to 70 > Knockariddera, 24 to 7 > > As opposed to Knockbrack where the population decreased just slightly > from 334 to 320. Of course, over those ten years, the population would > have been expected to increase considerably (if there was room) over a > ten year period. > > If anybody wants a copy of all of the figures, I would be happyto send > them in a spreadsheet file. > > On the Kerry web page there are some articles on the famine in Kerry > > > 1. > <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Black> > Black '47 and Beyond > 2. > <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Great> > The Great Calamity > 3. > <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Flight> > Flight From Famine > 4. > <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Workhou > ses> Workhouses of Ireland > 5. > <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Evictio > ns> Evictions in Dingle > > > > Ray Marshall > In Minneapolis with a slight sunburn today. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of marysimpson > Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 4:14 AM > To: [email protected]; Rootsweb Cork > Subject: [IRL-KERRY] regarding Griffith's lists maps and Killarney > WorkHouse Guardian Minutes > > > I know that every sane body on the lists is off on holiday / vacation > so I might post this again later but there are a couple of things that > I would like to see if anyone else has views about. > > 1. Has anyone else noticed that on the askaboutireland Griffith's > Valuation website, the printed maps and the lists don't correlate? > There are often more people and plots listed than appear on the maps - > and it's usually the ones that don't show on the maps that are the > ones you are interested in. But it's still an invaluable resource. > > 2. I have been reading with great interest the Killarney Workhouse > Minute Books that Ray kindly told us about this month - and > attempting to do so with some degree of dispassion and even handedness > - but something niggled me. During this period our Kerry families > continued to farm, have children every couple of years or even every > year, and, as far as I know, they seemed to have all survived. They > leased farms of different sizes, some larger than others - from about > twenty acres to one hundred and twenty, but the larger farms were on > poorer land. And a lot of them left Kerry for England and Australia in > the early 1860s. Does this mean that they were just lucky? The Minute > Books report that the potato crop had failed in every parish, so were > some places particularly hard hit? Our family were from Glenflesk, > Killarney, and Castlemaine / Milltown. > > Mary > > > _______________ > --------------- > > Policies of the IRL-Kerry List: > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/mailing.html > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message. > > To subscribe to the Digest version of the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'subscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message. > > To visit the County Kerry Research and Resources Page go to: > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ > > Share your stuff! If you transcribed research data, share it with the > Irish genealogy community. Contribute it to the Kerry website to reach a > wide audience. Contact Ann Hammer, data maintenance. Her contact info > is at http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ contrib.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _______________ > --------------- > > Policies of the IRL-Kerry List: > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/mailing.html > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message. > > To subscribe to the Digest version of the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'subscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message. > > To visit the County Kerry Research and Resources Page go to: > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ > > Share your stuff! If you transcribed research data, share it with the > Irish genealogy community. Contribute it to the Kerry website to reach a > wide audience. Contact Ann Hammer, data maintenance. Her contact info is > at http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ contrib.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My earlier note had included a table of data comparing the changes between 1841 and 1851 in the area around Newtown Sandes. This table was not transmitted as it was deemed to be an attachment. Write to me privately if you would like to see the data. John Buckley ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Buckley" <[email protected]> To: "Ray Marshall" <[email protected]>; "'marysimpson'" <[email protected]> Cc: "Kerry List" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] regarding Griffith's lists maps andKillarneyWorkHouse Guardian Minutes > It is correct that the original census returns 1841-1891 were destroyed by > order of the British Government, but the statistics gained from those > returns were kept and some at least were published and are available. It > is > over 20 years since I used these statistics and I was only researching the > changes in population and housing in North Kerry between 1841 and 1851. > The > results were published in 3 large volumes by the Irish Universities Press, > which should be available in most large libraries and universities. I'm > sorry that I no longer have the full reference > John Buckley > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ray Marshall" <[email protected]> > To: "'marysimpson'" <[email protected]> > Cc: "Kerry List" <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 1:19 PM > Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] regarding Griffith's lists maps and > KillarneyWorkHouse Guardian Minutes > > >> >> >> >> Mary >> >> I'd have to do some research to answer your first question. First, I'd >> need to know exactly what you are looking at. >> >> Your second question is much easier. Frankly, those who leased (very >> few Irish farmers owned their property and they paid outrageous lease >> payments) 20 acres or more of land were fairly prosperous and didn't >> suffer nearly as much as the "cotters", those who perhaps had only 1 >> acre of land. When the crops failed on these "gardens", it was a >> disaster for the cotters. >> >> A long time ago, I found a fabulous tidbit of Irish history that has >> some Irish population figures for 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871, etc. through >> 1911. We have all been led to believe that the census returns for those >> years were destroyed,. That is correct, but at least in the snippet >> that I found, and sadly I neglected to record where I found it, this >> might have been as long as 12 or more years ago, where the gross census >> figures were transcribed by somebody. >> >> The Castleisland civil parish townlands of Ahane, Ahneboy, Ballyduff, >> Beheenagh, Broughane, Feaufvatia, Gortroe, Knockachur, Knockariddera and >> Knockbrack were listed. >> >> In brief, the following townlands had dramatic decreases of population >> (due to deaths or emigratiion, it can't be determined; probably a >> combination of both) between 1841 and 1851: >> >> Ballyduff, 331 to 113 >> Beheenagh, 282 to 184 >> Gortroe 107 to 70 >> Knockariddera, 24 to 7 >> >> As opposed to Knockbrack where the population decreased just slightly >> from 334 to 320. Of course, over those ten years, the population would >> have been expected to increase considerably (if there was room) over a >> ten year period. >> >> If anybody wants a copy of all of the figures, I would be happyto send >> them in a spreadsheet file. >> >> On the Kerry web page there are some articles on the famine in Kerry >> >> >> 1. >> <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Black> >> Black '47 and Beyond >> 2. >> <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Great> >> The Great Calamity >> 3. >> <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Flight> >> Flight From Famine >> 4. >> <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Workhou >> ses> Workhouses of Ireland >> 5. >> <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Evictio >> ns> Evictions in Dingle >> >> >> >> Ray Marshall >> In Minneapolis with a slight sunburn today. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of marysimpson >> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 4:14 AM >> To: [email protected]; Rootsweb Cork >> Subject: [IRL-KERRY] regarding Griffith's lists maps and Killarney >> WorkHouse Guardian Minutes >> >> >> I know that every sane body on the lists is off on holiday / vacation >> so I might post this again later but there are a couple of things that >> I would like to see if anyone else has views about. >> >> 1. Has anyone else noticed that on the askaboutireland Griffith's >> Valuation website, the printed maps and the lists don't correlate? >> There are often more people and plots listed than appear on the maps - >> and it's usually the ones that don't show on the maps that are the >> ones you are interested in. But it's still an invaluable resource. >> >> 2. I have been reading with great interest the Killarney Workhouse >> Minute Books that Ray kindly told us about this month - and >> attempting to do so with some degree of dispassion and even handedness >> - but something niggled me. During this period our Kerry families >> continued to farm, have children every couple of years or even every >> year, and, as far as I know, they seemed to have all survived. They >> leased farms of different sizes, some larger than others - from about >> twenty acres to one hundred and twenty, but the larger farms were on >> poorer land. And a lot of them left Kerry for England and Australia in >> the early 1860s. Does this mean that they were just lucky? The Minute >> Books report that the potato crop had failed in every parish, so were >> some places particularly hard hit? Our family were from Glenflesk, >> Killarney, and Castlemaine / Milltown. >> >> Mary >>