I know that every sane body on the lists is off on holiday / vacation so I might post this again later but there are a couple of things that I would like to see if anyone else has views about. 1. Has anyone else noticed that on the askaboutireland Griffith's Valuation website, the printed maps and the lists don't correlate? There are often more people and plots listed than appear on the maps - and it's usually the ones that don't show on the maps that are the ones you are interested in. But it's still an invaluable resource. 2. I have been reading with great interest the Killarney Workhouse Minute Books that Ray kindly told us about this month - and attempting to do so with some degree of dispassion and even handedness - but something niggled me. During this period our Kerry families continued to farm, have children every couple of years or even every year, and, as far as I know, they seemed to have all survived. They leased farms of different sizes, some larger than others - from about twenty acres to one hundred and twenty, but the larger farms were on poorer land. And a lot of them left Kerry for England and Australia in the early 1860s. Does this mean that they were just lucky? The Minute Books report that the potato crop had failed in every parish, so were some places particularly hard hit? Our family were from Glenflesk, Killarney, and Castlemaine / Milltown. Mary

Mary I'd have to do some research to answer your first question. First, I'd need to know exactly what you are looking at. Your second question is much easier. Frankly, those who leased (very few Irish farmers owned their property and they paid outrageous lease payments) 20 acres or more of land were fairly prosperous and didn't suffer nearly as much as the "cotters", those who perhaps had only 1 acre of land. When the crops failed on these "gardens", it was a disaster for the cotters. A long time ago, I found a fabulous tidbit of Irish history that has some Irish population figures for 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871, etc. through 1911. We have all been led to believe that the census returns for those years were destroyed,. That is correct, but at least in the snippet that I found, and sadly I neglected to record where I found it, this might have been as long as 12 or more years ago, where the gross census figures were transcribed by somebody. The Castleisland civil parish townlands of Ahane, Ahneboy, Ballyduff, Beheenagh, Broughane, Feaufvatia, Gortroe, Knockachur, Knockariddera and Knockbrack were listed. In brief, the following townlands had dramatic decreases of population (due to deaths or emigratiion, it can't be determined; probably a combination of both) between 1841 and 1851: Ballyduff, 331 to 113 Beheenagh, 282 to 184 Gortroe 107 to 70 Knockariddera, 24 to 7 As opposed to Knockbrack where the population decreased just slightly from 334 to 320. Of course, over those ten years, the population would have been expected to increase considerably (if there was room) over a ten year period. If anybody wants a copy of all of the figures, I would be happyto send them in a spreadsheet file. On the Kerry web page there are some articles on the famine in Kerry 1. <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Black> Black '47 and Beyond 2. <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Great> The Great Calamity 3. <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Flight> Flight From Famine 4. <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Workhou ses> Workhouses of Ireland 5. <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Evictio ns> Evictions in Dingle Ray Marshall In Minneapolis with a slight sunburn today. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of marysimpson Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 4:14 AM To: [email protected]; Rootsweb Cork Subject: [IRL-KERRY] regarding Griffith's lists maps and Killarney WorkHouse Guardian Minutes I know that every sane body on the lists is off on holiday / vacation so I might post this again later but there are a couple of things that I would like to see if anyone else has views about. 1. Has anyone else noticed that on the askaboutireland Griffith's Valuation website, the printed maps and the lists don't correlate? There are often more people and plots listed than appear on the maps - and it's usually the ones that don't show on the maps that are the ones you are interested in. But it's still an invaluable resource. 2. I have been reading with great interest the Killarney Workhouse Minute Books that Ray kindly told us about this month - and attempting to do so with some degree of dispassion and even handedness - but something niggled me. During this period our Kerry families continued to farm, have children every couple of years or even every year, and, as far as I know, they seemed to have all survived. They leased farms of different sizes, some larger than others - from about twenty acres to one hundred and twenty, but the larger farms were on poorer land. And a lot of them left Kerry for England and Australia in the early 1860s. Does this mean that they were just lucky? The Minute Books report that the potato crop had failed in every parish, so were some places particularly hard hit? Our family were from Glenflesk, Killarney, and Castlemaine / Milltown. Mary _______________ --------------- Policies of the IRL-Kerry List: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/mailing.html To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message. To subscribe to the Digest version of the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'subscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message. To visit the County Kerry Research and Resources Page go to: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ Share your stuff! If you transcribed research data, share it with the Irish genealogy community. Contribute it to the Kerry website to reach a wide audience. Contact Ann Hammer, data maintenance. Her contact info is at http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ contrib.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes please, Ray, I would like a copy Thanks Rod -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Marshall Sent: 23 August 2010 13:19 To: 'marysimpson' Cc: Kerry List Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] regarding Griffith's lists maps and Killarney WorkHouse Guardian Minutes Mary I'd have to do some research to answer your first question. First, I'd need to know exactly what you are looking at. Your second question is much easier. Frankly, those who leased (very few Irish farmers owned their property and they paid outrageous lease payments) 20 acres or more of land were fairly prosperous and didn't suffer nearly as much as the "cotters", those who perhaps had only 1 acre of land. When the crops failed on these "gardens", it was a disaster for the cotters. A long time ago, I found a fabulous tidbit of Irish history that has some Irish population figures for 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871, etc. through 1911. We have all been led to believe that the census returns for those years were destroyed,. That is correct, but at least in the snippet that I found, and sadly I neglected to record where I found it, this might have been as long as 12 or more years ago, where the gross census figures were transcribed by somebody. The Castleisland civil parish townlands of Ahane, Ahneboy, Ballyduff, Beheenagh, Broughane, Feaufvatia, Gortroe, Knockachur, Knockariddera and Knockbrack were listed. In brief, the following townlands had dramatic decreases of population (due to deaths or emigratiion, it can't be determined; probably a combination of both) between 1841 and 1851: Ballyduff, 331 to 113 Beheenagh, 282 to 184 Gortroe 107 to 70 Knockariddera, 24 to 7 As opposed to Knockbrack where the population decreased just slightly from 334 to 320. Of course, over those ten years, the population would have been expected to increase considerably (if there was room) over a ten year period. If anybody wants a copy of all of the figures, I would be happyto send them in a spreadsheet file. On the Kerry web page there are some articles on the famine in Kerry 1. <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Black> Black '47 and Beyond 2. <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Great> The Great Calamity 3. <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Flight> Flight From Famine 4. <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Workhou ses> Workhouses of Ireland 5. <outbind://396-00000000BA00F91FD867934CB32104D6FD2B5C3944FB8A00/#Evictio ns> Evictions in Dingle Ray Marshall In Minneapolis with a slight sunburn today. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of marysimpson Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 4:14 AM To: [email protected]; Rootsweb Cork Subject: [IRL-KERRY] regarding Griffith's lists maps and Killarney WorkHouse Guardian Minutes I know that every sane body on the lists is off on holiday / vacation so I might post this again later but there are a couple of things that I would like to see if anyone else has views about. 1. Has anyone else noticed that on the askaboutireland Griffith's Valuation website, the printed maps and the lists don't correlate? There are often more people and plots listed than appear on the maps - and it's usually the ones that don't show on the maps that are the ones you are interested in. But it's still an invaluable resource. 2. I have been reading with great interest the Killarney Workhouse Minute Books that Ray kindly told us about this month - and attempting to do so with some degree of dispassion and even handedness - but something niggled me. During this period our Kerry families continued to farm, have children every couple of years or even every year, and, as far as I know, they seemed to have all survived. They leased farms of different sizes, some larger than others - from about twenty acres to one hundred and twenty, but the larger farms were on poorer land. And a lot of them left Kerry for England and Australia in the early 1860s. Does this mean that they were just lucky? The Minute Books report that the potato crop had failed in every parish, so were some places particularly hard hit? Our family were from Glenflesk, Killarney, and Castlemaine / Milltown. Mary _______________ --------------- Policies of the IRL-Kerry List: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/mailing.html To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message. To subscribe to the Digest version of the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'subscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message. To visit the County Kerry Research and Resources Page go to: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ Share your stuff! If you transcribed research data, share it with the Irish genealogy community. Contribute it to the Kerry website to reach a wide audience. Contact Ann Hammer, data maintenance. Her contact info is at http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ contrib.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _______________ --------------- Policies of the IRL-Kerry List: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/mailing.html To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message. To subscribe to the Digest version of the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'subscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message. To visit the County Kerry Research and Resources Page go to: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ Share your stuff! If you transcribed research data, share it with the Irish genealogy community. Contribute it to the Kerry website to reach a wide audience. Contact Ann Hammer, data maintenance. Her contact info is at http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ contrib.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5388 (20100823) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5389 (20100823) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com

I have set myself the task of relating the famine in local terms for my family and our society and started the research during a recent visit to Killarney. It is very early days but here's some random stuff in relation to your areas of interest Killaha, Killarney and Killorglin lost 33% of the potato crop in 1846 vs 66% in Aghadoe and others. By 1847 the first two were still not as badly hit but Killorglin was suffering in terms of gratuitous poor law relief. In relation to Kerry emigration between 1841-51, 16.6% left Magunihy barony which is not half as bad as some others who lost 25 to 36% (two were however as low as 4.5-5.6%. The project will need a few more trips to Kerry and a lot of writing time. In my own case I have been unable to find the birth and marriage records of this period for my family (perhaps because they may have been in Ballymacelligott parish). Was Donough's feedback helpful? Cheers Rod Rod O'Donoghue Author of 'O'Donoghue People and Places' Founder of The O'Donoghue Society www.odonoghue.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of marysimpson Sent: 23 August 2010 10:13 To: [email protected]; Rootsweb Cork Subject: [IRL-KERRY] regarding Griffith's lists maps and Killarney Work House Guardian Minutes I know that every sane body on the lists is off on holiday / vacation so I might post this again later but there are a couple of things that I would like to see if anyone else has views about. 1. Has anyone else noticed that on the askaboutireland Griffith's Valuation website, the printed maps and the lists don't correlate? There are often more people and plots listed than appear on the maps - and it's usually the ones that don't show on the maps that are the ones you are interested in. But it's still an invaluable resource. 2. I have been reading with great interest the Killarney Workhouse Minute Books that Ray kindly told us about this month - and attempting to do so with some degree of dispassion and even handedness - but something niggled me. During this period our Kerry families continued to farm, have children every couple of years or even every year, and, as far as I know, they seemed to have all survived. They leased farms of different sizes, some larger than others - from about twenty acres to one hundred and twenty, but the larger farms were on poorer land. And a lot of them left Kerry for England and Australia in the early 1860s. Does this mean that they were just lucky? The Minute Books report that the potato crop had failed in every parish, so were some places particularly hard hit? Our family were from Glenflesk, Killarney, and Castlemaine / Milltown. Mary _______________ --------------- Policies of the IRL-Kerry List: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/mailing.html To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message. To subscribe to the Digest version of the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'subscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message. To visit the County Kerry Research and Resources Page go to: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ Share your stuff! If you transcribed research data, share it with the Irish genealogy community. Contribute it to the Kerry website to reach a wide audience. Contact Ann Hammer, data maintenance. Her contact info is at http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ contrib.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5388 (20100823) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5389 (20100823) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com