Well, I was wondering when Shanty Irish would pop up and it finally did a few emails back, but you've all overlooked a few other terms including Bog Irish and, my favorite, " Two-toilet Irish." And don't forget "FBI" or Foreign Born Irish, a sometimes term around Boston for Irish, not "native" but born in Ireland.

Hello Anne, You could try posting to the following website _http://www.worcestertalk.com/index.php_ (http://www.worcestertalk.com/index.php) It is for Worcester MA genealogy. Please let them know in more detail what I have found for you so they don't waste time retracing my steps. Cheryl ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

"Bog Irish" was an expression that was used in our family too, usually meaning that those so described had little or no upbringing, were ill mannered, and were to be avoided and not imitated. Ann

I grew up being told we were black Irish, because the Armada survivors mixed with the native Irish. A few years ago I did a little research and found that at least in the Dingle area, the few Armada survivors were executed--so much for that theory. Looking at the few old family photos I have, my Sullivans, Cavanaughs, O'Donnells, Brosnahans, Murphys, were fair & mostly blue-eyed. My Doyles & Toomeys (Toomeys were from Cork) were very dark in hair & eyes, which my mother & I inherited. Suzanne

My grandmother who was born in Kerry (Caherciveen) in 1876 also told us the tale of the shipwrecked sailors from the Spanish Armada. Two of her daughters,(my mother and one of her sisters) had the blackest of black hair, olive skin, and green eyes. My sister looked so "Latin" as a child that on returning on a holiday trip from Mexico back to Texas, my parents were accused (perhaps jokingly) of having kidnapped her). On the other hand, a few years ago I read several articles completely debunking what scholars who have researched it have termed as a myth with no foundation. Those articles could probably be found by entering the phrase "black Irish" on Google. They said, as well as I remember, that all the shipwrecked sailors either died or were murdered before having any chance to intermarry with the locals. But I still believe my grandmother. Julie Hu

I'm hoping someone can help me. I have a marriage certificate to hand for my great grandfather Patrick Delaney (born 1854) who, at the time of his marriage, was a farmer residing in Gortaree which, I have found out, was a Townland of some 137 acres (Barony Magunihy) in the Parish of Aghadoe. I have been trying to pin-point the whereabouts of Gortaree on my map of Kerry without any success. As I'm hoping to visit the area later this year would be grateful if someone could inform me of its whereabouts and the name of the nearest village/town. Also whether there is a church and/or cemetery in the area. My great great grandfather John Delaney - farmer, also resided in Gortaree and any information on the Delaney's of Gortaree would be gratefully received. Pat Delaney

My family defined "Lace Curtain Irish" as those who could afford to have fresh fruit in the house when no one was sick, as opposed to "Shanty Irish" . "Black Irish" referred to those who were darkheaded. Ann

According to my Dad, "lace curtain' meant you'd moved beyond being dirt poor. You'd become respectable if you were 'lace curtain'. He said his family was black Irish as they were very dark haired (at least the ones that weren't red haired). ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Carlene, I can only tell you what my grandmother used to say. Lace curtain Irish were "those people puttin' on airs, don't you know." But my mother said they were people who were trying to put on the best "face" that they could, such as hanging lace curtains in a poor home. As for Black Irish, I've heard different things but mostly just Irish with "that Spanish Armada look to them." Monica ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Has anyone seen The Wind That Blows The Barley? It is about the Black 'n Tans and is great! My Mom, Bridie, often talked about them...not in a kind way to be sure. Maureen Ferriter ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Since the list is so quiet, I have a question that may get some "chatter" started. Could someone please explain to me what is meant by Black Irish and Lace Curtain Irish. I have absolutely no idea about those two expressions and hope I am not asking a "touchy" question. If this is a touchy question, maybe someone could e-mail me direct. Carlene

Yeah but, Pat and Ray, don't you think this is just a little too quiet for we Kerry folk? Never have I seen this group soooo quiet! Monica ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

That'll get 'em going, Carlene! Everybody's got an opinion on that one! Ray -----Original Message----- From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Carlene Worthy Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 1:19 PM To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Irish Expressions Since the list is so quiet, I have a question that may get some "chatter" started. Could someone please explain to me what is meant by Black Irish and Lace Curtain Irish. I have absolutely no idea about those two expressions and hope I am not asking a "touchy" question. If this is a touchy question, maybe someone could e-mail me direct. Carlene ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/801 - Release Date: 5/12/2007 6:40 PM

Pat Jack still keeps his ear cocked to the computer, but I believe Herself is pretty demanding about the shape of the lawn and hedges in Palmer, so I expect he gets a pretty good workout in the Summer. But I think if someone mentioned "soda bread", "goat" or "Mein" on the Kerry list, he would come running. Ray On a calm and peaceful and summer-like Mothers' Day in Minneapolis. Town vacant; all fisherpeople out doing their thing. -----Original Message----- From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of PMcH532@aol.com Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 10:05 PM To: MonicaBOS@aol.com; irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-KERRY] ..... or this thunderstorm cut Massachusetts off fromeveryone else. Hi Monica, Don't worry. Massachusettes is still connected to me and I'm in Palm Beach Gardens, FL. I think Jack and the others must be out sunning themselves on the beach or at the pool but they'll be back when that wears off. Would you agree Ray? Pat Sunny and very dry PBG Florida ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.8/800 - Release Date: 5/11/2007 7:34 PM

Recieved this today. Thought someone on the list may have Foleys. I do not ,but it sounds like they are going to have a great time Trish in Sydney New Message on Beautiful Old Irish Photographs Foley Bennett reunion Reply Reply to Sender Recommend Message 1 in Discussion From: dangerman811 I'd like to announce to all descendants of the Foley-Bennetts of Shannahill, Keele, whether your name is Foley or not, wherever in the world you may be, that we are holding a "coming together" on Inch Beach, Co. Kerry at 1pm on Saturday 28th July 2007 and would love to see as big a gathering as was ever assembled in Kerry. To feed the masses expected, everyone is asked to bring their chosen tipple and a bite to eat. We hope for good weather but failing that shelter will no doubt be provided at the nearest watering hole, The Strand, which is just off the beach. Many of us may never have met and this is a great chance to do that and the opportunity to swap stories, sing, dance and enjoy the craic amongst our own may not come again. Who knows - we may even meet our own dopplegangers there! Please email me if you will be attending or just turn up if you can't resist at the last moment. We will be putting photos of the event up on this site. Tim Foley t.foley@kitchensfitted.co.uk View other groups in this category. To stop getting this e-mail, or change how often it arrives, go to your E-mail Settings. Need help? If you've forgotten your password, please go to Passport Member Services. For other questions or feedback, go to our Contact Us page. If you do not want to receive future e-mail from this MSN group, or if you received this message by mistake, please click the "Remove" link below. On the pre-addressed e-mail message that opens, simply click "Send". Your e-mail address will be deleted from this group's mailing list. Remove my e-mail address from Beautiful Old Irish Photographs. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.6/795 - Release Date: 9/05/2007 3:07 PM

Hi Monica, Don't worry. Massachusettes is still connected to me and I'm in Palm Beach Gardens, FL. I think Jack and the others must be out sunning themselves on the beach or at the pool but they'll be back when that wears off. Would you agree Ray? Pat Sunny and very dry PBG Florida ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From: "Irish Friends and Relatives" page 352 January 1, 1870 Of MAURICE O'CONNELL, from Ballymacjordan, Parish of Duagh, Co Kerry.Ireland. who left home about 20 yrs ago. Information of him will be thankfully received by his nephew, PATRICK O'CONNELL, 121 First St. Newburgh, NY Hope this helps someone! Nan

Ray . It is really wonderfull news but just let's hope that there is no more upsets to the peace . Thank you for sending that on to the list. Trish

Yes, this is absolutely great, fabulous, unbelieveable news. When I visited Ireland in 1972 and again in 1982 we encountered militia with machine guns at the border and lining the streets. We were stopped and interrogated. My husband's father was born in Belfast and we wanted to visit there, but there were bombings and after these encounters with the militia, it was too scary. By the way, I think it's time for you to visit the old sod once again, Ray. Kathleen on the coast of central California where the fog is beginning to clear ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Marshall" <raymarsh@mninter.net> To: "Trish Jensen" <trishj@tpg.com.au>; "Kerry List" <IRL-Kerry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 4:47 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Great News. > Thanks, Trish. > > As I was just thinking in response to your comment, I made my only trip to > Ireland in June of 1967, forty years ago next month. > > One of my Reidy shirttail relatives that I met in Knocknagoshel on that > visit was employed as a guard in the Dail, the Irish Parliament. I knew > almost nothing about Irish history then but to keep the conversation > going, > I asked him about the "IRA", about the only thing I had heard of. He > replied that they were pretty much defunct. > > I believe it was the next year, 1968, that began this latest "hippisode", > as > my Waterford grandfather used to say, of Irish rebellion. And it's been a > pretty rocky 40 years. I pray that both sides continue the path towards > peace. > > The creation of the European Union during that same period (it began with > the European Coal and Steel Community in the early 1950s) has taught most > Europeans that modern technology and communications has made those old > borders (and enmities) not nearly as important as they once were. > Perhaps > Ireland will come to believe that also. > > > Ray > In a deserted Minneapolis because this weekend is the "Opener", the > beginning of the Walleye Fishing Season. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Trish Jensen > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 11:34 PM > To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com > Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Great News. > > > Ray . > It is really wonderfull news but just let's hope that there is no more > upsets to the peace . > Thank you for sending that on to the list. > Trish > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.8/797 - Release Date: 5/10/2007 > 5:10 PM > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks, Trish. As I was just thinking in response to your comment, I made my only trip to Ireland in June of 1967, forty years ago next month. One of my Reidy shirttail relatives that I met in Knocknagoshel on that visit was employed as a guard in the Dail, the Irish Parliament. I knew almost nothing about Irish history then but to keep the conversation going, I asked him about the "IRA", about the only thing I had heard of. He replied that they were pretty much defunct. I believe it was the next year, 1968, that began this latest "hippisode", as my Waterford grandfather used to say, of Irish rebellion. And it's been a pretty rocky 40 years. I pray that both sides continue the path towards peace. The creation of the European Union during that same period (it began with the European Coal and Steel Community in the early 1950s) has taught most Europeans that modern technology and communications has made those old borders (and enmities) not nearly as important as they once were. Perhaps Ireland will come to believe that also. Ray In a deserted Minneapolis because this weekend is the "Opener", the beginning of the Walleye Fishing Season. -----Original Message----- From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Trish Jensen Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 11:34 PM To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Great News. Ray . It is really wonderfull news but just let's hope that there is no more upsets to the peace . Thank you for sending that on to the list. Trish ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.8/797 - Release Date: 5/10/2007 5:10 PM