Hi Julie My Mum's family was also from Kerry, Ardfert area. I'm afraid I can't believe, either, that there were 100% fatalities amongst the Spanish sailors We don't get that result even now for enemy deaths during war time with modern weapons. There didn't have to be many left alive to leave some sort of heritage after nearly four hundred and fifty years. Regards Irene R on the Gold Coast -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/07 12:17 PM

Another expression for immigrant Irish around Boston was "two-boater". If you had the cash for a ticket to NY or Boston, you were pretty well off: you were a one-boater.. If you were poor as dirt, or your landlord was trying to get rid of you, you got a ticket as far as St. John's, Newfoundland, then worked on the fishing boats till you had money for the fare to Boston or NYC: you were a two-boater. It was a badge of honor to have had the gumption to be a two-boater. Jack

John, Never heard that expression, but love it. When the Ellis Island records came out, we were stunned to see that our grandparents left Ireland with only $5.00 in cash. Joan Griffin Rusk

I first came across "hoity-toity" in an (American)schoolbook named "Friendly Village" in which, as I recall, a couple from the U. S. visited various countries, including their homelands. "Hoity-toity" was a phrase used by the English half of the couple (the other was from Brittany). It made such an impression that I still use it occasionally. Ann ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Hu" <mcelroy22000@yahoo.com> To: <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 8:41 PM Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Hoity-toity > Is "hoity-toity" an Irish expression or just an > old-fashioned word once used in the U.S. In my mind I > can still hear my Irish grandmother using it of > someone she considered snobbish: "She's very > hoity-toity!" > > Julie Hu > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi All re 'Black Irish' my Mum used to say that these people had some Spanish blood in them. She, her sister and one brother plus both parents had the grey eyes reddish hair that so many Irish have, but her other brother was very olive-skinned with black hair, eyes and a very ginger moustache. At school, we were taught that, after the Armada was scattered, some of them sailed further north around the top end of Scotland and down the west coast of Ireland trying to get back to Spain. Some were shipwrecked and washed ashore in Ireland. I have always thought this was a logical explanation but, if anyone likes to differ, please feel free. Regards Irene R -------Original Message------- From: MonicaBOS@aol.com Date: 05/14/07 04:37:31 AM To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Expressions Carlene, I can only tell you what my grandmother used to say. Lace curtain Irish were "those people puttin' on airs, don't you know." But my mother said they were people who were trying to put on the best "face" that they could, such as hanging lace curtains in a poor home. As for Black Irish, I've heard different things but mostly just Irish with "that Spanish Armada look to them." Monica ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.8/800 - Release Date: 5/11/07 7:34 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/07 12:17 PM

wouldn't DNA testing answer this? sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Irene R" <ivrbjr@netspace.net.au> To: "IRELANDCo KERRY" <IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Black Irish > Hi Julie > > My Mum's family was also from Kerry, Ardfert area. I'm afraid I can't > believe, either, that there were 100% fatalities amongst the Spanish > sailors > We don't get that result even now for enemy deaths during war time with > modern weapons. There didn't have to be many left alive to leave some sort > of heritage after nearly four hundred and fifty years. > > Regards > > Irene R on the Gold Coast > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/07 > 12:17 PM > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Is "hoity-toity" an Irish expression or just an old-fashioned word once used in the U.S. In my mind I can still hear my Irish grandmother using it of someone she considered snobbish: "She's very hoity-toity!" Julie Hu

As a genuine Plastic ( or rather East Irish ) the term " Black Irish " is very appropriate to all our Cork family - especially my eldest brother Desmond, who could pass for a bona fide Afghan any day. But rather than the Armada, I have been told that there are two views on this according to current thinking; 1. These are the original indigenous inhabitants of Britain, blue eyes, black hair etc. etc. The hunter gatherers, first farmers. 2. That there was much trading with people sailing from North Africa and Iberia, with the usual consequences....... And " lace curtain Irish " was always used as a put-down by my mother, who certainly was an expert! Slan, Mary

Does anyone have information on Patrick SHINE m.Hannah O'Connor 1897 ? Hannah b.1873 from Killarney, daughter of John O'Connor & Margaret Donoghue. Hannah's siblings : John, Mary,Catherine,Patrick,Margaret,Jeremiah,Francis,Ellen. Patrick & Hannah Shine migrated to USA and lived in Worcester,Massachusetts . Family : Mary m. Thomas O'Brien : sons Thomas & William & daughter Pauline Margaret, Timothy John died 1923 Anna m.John Manoog ( Anna d.1974) & Catherine m. Joseph Kantakavich/Kantakich. Thanks Anne

Irene, I agree. If those Irish girls had any sense at all, they hid those handsome, dark haired Spaniards. Joan Griffin Rusk Hi Julie My Mum's family was also from Kerry, Ardfert area. I'm afraid I can't believe, either, that there were 100% fatalities amongst the Spanish sailors We don't get that result even now for enemy deaths during war time with modern weapons. There didn't have to be many left alive to leave some sort of heritage after nearly four hundred and fifty years. Regards Irene R on the Gold Coast -- Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/07 12:17 PM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The Last time I was on vacation, Jack was in Danbury, Ct. visiting one of his off-spring. I am in Danbury, traveling again, and I haven't seen him, but I would not be surprised if he wasn't in town. Hey Jack - you better respond before people get the idea you are hiding in Danbury with me. I assume herself is with him......... Liz in Connecticut, normally in Florida ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Hi Guys I'm trying to make contact with a cousin, Mary O'Halloran, living in Kerry. I've been told that she now lives in Callinseray Wood, Castlemaine. I'm aware that Castlemaine is a small village not far from Tralee, where my ancestors came from, but have drawn a blank on Callinseray Wood. Does anyone know whether this is a village, a road or what and whether a letter addressed so vaguely would stand much chance of being delivered? Thanks in advance for any help. Neil Walton

There a place called Callinafercy between Castlemaine and Killorglin. Only wood I know around there is Kilderry wood but no houses there. I'll be driving on that road this evening so can keep a look out. Looked for her name in phone book but could'nt find anything http://www.eircomphonebook.ie/ Regards, Fintan ----- Original Message ---- From: Neil Walton <waltonfamilytree@googlemail.com> To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, 14 May, 2007 2:55:13 PM Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Callinseray Wood? Hi Guys I'm trying to make contact with a cousin, Mary O'Halloran, living in Kerry. I've been told that she now lives in Callinseray Wood, Castlemaine. I'm aware that Castlemaine is a small village not far from Tralee, where my ancestors came from, but have drawn a blank on Callinseray Wood. Does anyone know whether this is a village, a road or what and whether a letter addressed so vaguely would stand much chance of being delivered? Thanks in advance for any help. Neil Walton ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/winter07.html

How about narrow-back? That was one of Bridie's (my Mom)favorites. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

When I lived in London the term 'plastic paddy' was a term used by Irish people to describe people born in UK with irish roots. It was usually done in jest especially if they started boring us with history etc Regards, Fintan ----- Original Message ---- From: Joe Orfant <orfant@comcast.net> To: IRELANDCo KERRY <IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, 14 May, 2007 12:55:42 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Expressions Well, I was wondering when Shanty Irish would pop up and it finally did a few emails back, but you've all overlooked a few other terms including Bog Irish and, my favorite, " Two-toilet Irish." And don't forget "FBI" or Foreign Born Irish, a sometimes term around Boston for Irish, not "native" but born in Ireland. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ___________________________________________________________ New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk

In a message dated 5/14/2007 11:51:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mary@msimpson.demon.co.uk writes: 2. That there was much trading with people sailing from North Africa and Iberia, with the usual consequences....... And " lace curtain Irish " was always used as a put-down by my mother, who certainly was an expert! Slan, Mary Well, my family never used terms like that. My Mom once yelled at my brother for calling someone shanty; but when I asked her exactly what we'd be called, she said "Strong immigrant stock" That's always been good enough for me! I think that the people who considered themselves a 'step up' from the rest of us thought of themselves as lace curtain, and everyone else used it as a put-down. Suppose it depends on where you lived. Noreen in NY ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Hi, heard all sorts of theories for this including original settlers in Ireland originally migrated from Asia settling in europe,ireland and britain. Also trade links with North Africa, Portugal and Spain. The was a theory raised a few years ago that some Irish words have some links with arabic languages. Gallecia in northern spain is one of the 'celtic' countries and pipes are played there which have simularites to uileann pipes in ireland. Regards, Fintan http://www.myirishancestry.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Irene R <ivrbjr@netspace.net.au> To: MonicaBOS@aol.com; IRELANDCo KERRY <IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, 14 May, 2007 10:01:36 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Expressions Hi All re 'Black Irish' my Mum used to say that these people had some Spanish blood in them. She, her sister and one brother plus both parents had the grey eyes reddish hair that so many Irish have, but her other brother was very olive-skinned with black hair, eyes and a very ginger moustache. At school, we were taught that, after the Armada was scattered, some of them sailed further north around the top end of Scotland and down the west coast of Ireland trying to get back to Spain. Some were shipwrecked and washed ashore in Ireland. I have always thought this was a logical explanation but, if anyone likes to differ, please feel free. Regards Irene R -------Original Message------- From: MonicaBOS@aol.com Date: 05/14/07 04:37:31 AM To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Expressions Carlene, I can only tell you what my grandmother used to say. Lace curtain Irish were "those people puttin' on airs, don't you know." But my mother said they were people who were trying to put on the best "face" that they could, such as hanging lace curtains in a poor home. As for Black Irish, I've heard different things but mostly just Irish with "that Spanish Armada look to them." Monica ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.8/800 - Release Date: 5/11/07 7:34 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/07 12:17 PM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ___________________________________________________________ All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

Oh, good. You are all back! Out of all the expressions describing the Irish the one my family (those born in Ireland) hated the most was shanty Irish. And I will not repeat what they said about it. And.........my sister has been described as Black Irish. She has dark, dark brown hair (or rather, she used to but don't tell her I said that) and olive skin. She has always tanned just beautifully. Whereas I have the typical pale, pale skin and HAD dark blond hair. Never could last longer than 15 minutes in the sun. But I also will probably end up with great skin when I am old, old mainly because I cannot spend a lot of time sunbathing, even with these newfangled sun screens. Of course, it won't matter then. Actually, it doesn't matter now................ Monica ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

In a message dated 5/13/2007 2:27:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, PSMaureen@aol.com writes: Has anyone seen The Wind That Blows The Barley? It is about the Black 'n Tans and is great! My Mom, Bridie, often talked about them...not in a kind way to be sure. Maureen Ferriter Maureen, Funny, we were talking about going to see it just this weekend. It's only playing near us in Greenwich Village, but a trip downtown is always nice. My Dad used to tell us about his mother hiding his older brothers and giving the black 'n' tans the last egg in the house and curtsying and fawning so that they'd leave them alone. Noreen in NY ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

http://www.wisegeek.com:80/what-is-black-irish.htm Thanks to all who answered my questions. A special thanks to Pat who sent me the above link. Very surprised that there was no input from Jack or Ray. They must be getting their garden's ready. Carlene