Hello Jack, Checked the word in the Concise Oxford Dictionary and it reads " Tinker. A mender (esp. itinerant) of kettles and pans etc"., and a few other meanings also. When I was a little girl (many many years ago) I remember the rhyme "Tinker, Taylor, Soldier, Sailor,Rich man, Poor man, Beggarman and Thief". This rhyme was used on a circle of friends, to pick out the one who had to be "in" for Hidey. My Welsh Dad used to say they were men who wandered around and did mending or patching of pots and pans or anything you wanted fixed. Over here in North Queensland, I remember as a child, seeing what we called "Swageys" who were men who were out of work and called at houses to do this type of work or sharpen knives and scissors etc. All they wanted was some tea, sugar, and maybe a little butter and bread which they put into their little tins and Swaggy Bags they carried over their shoulders. The ones who called at our house were very respectful old men and I often wondered what had happened in their lives to send them out on the road looking for little jobs like this, and camping in the sheds around the area, while I was so comfy in my own home. If their work was good, they also got a few pounds from Dad to help them on their way. They had many stories to tell about their travells and Dad and Mum heard also of terrible tradegies that had sent some of them out on the road. My parents always had a handout for any of these poor people as they had both come from families who had struggled to bring up their large families in Wales and Ireland and knew what it was like not to have much money. In our town, we never heard of any Swaggys causing any trouble with any person or property. In those bygone days, we could leave our houses open and were never pestered or robbed. How things have changed!! Well you can go to bed now Jack after hearing my idea of the word "Tinker." Kind regards, Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "John L. Sweeney" <sweelab@enter.net> To: "Ray Marshall" <raymarsh@mninter.net>; "Kerry List" <IRL-Kerry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 1:09 PM Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Subject: [IRELAND] Tinker Tribes - CLAFFEY, SHERLOCK,DRISCOLL, CASEY, CARTHY, COFFEY, McQUEEN > Good Evening All: > > "Traveller" is an American expression. "Tinker" is what I knew for so > many > years and is still applied to those of us who are what we know are > "Tinkers" > in our homeland. > > Contributed by Jack Sweeney, [one of my favorite people], who still lives > in > Palmer, Pennsylvania. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ray, would you please send me the URL to see the storks please. I love birds and have many around our farm that keeps me interested, especially the golden Sun Birds, the so called Bush Canaries, so named because of their beautiful song, just like a canary. They nest in the same tree every year and did you know that when their chicks are starting to mature, they teach them to sing! Such a wonderful sound. Awaiting your reply with great excitement. Kind regards, Mary in unusual spring like weather in Nth Queensland.

Both expressions are used in Ireland. Tinker comes from fact that most worked as Tinsmiths or general metal workers. They would often call to farms and fix metal utensils etc. Often at odds with main population. They used to gather in large numbers for Puck Fair when I was young in Killorglin.Remember one confrontation in early 1980's when guards bailed out and army trucks were sent in to move caravans from street. Things have calmed down alot since. Regards, Fintan http://www.mtirishancestry.com ----- Original Message ---- From: John L. Sweeney <sweelab@enter.net> To: Ray Marshall <raymarsh@mninter.net>; Kerry List <IRL-Kerry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, 30 May, 2007 4:09:49 AM Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Subject: [IRELAND] Tinker Tribes - CLAFFEY, SHERLOCK, DRISCOLL, CASEY, CARTHY, COFFEY, McQUEEN Good Evening All: "Traveller" is an American expression. "Tinker" is what I knew for so many years and is still applied to those of us who are what we know are "Tinkers" in our homeland. Contributed by Jack Sweeney, [one of my favorite people], who still lives in Palmer, Pennsylvania. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/winter07.html

Here is a link to a Travellers organization in Ireland. Ray http://www.paveepoint.ie/

Hi Donal: Off to bed but I thought a bit of wisdom apt under the circumstances. The "Gypsies" of Rumania, Germany, Checkeslovika, Greece, Turkey, Slovenia, Bosnia, etc. might not agree Ireland [only] is where they are. Again, good night, Jack Sweeney, Palmer, Pennsylvania, no Gypsy here only Amish and a few Tinkers.

Good Evening All: "Traveller" is an American expression. "Tinker" is what I knew for so many years and is still applied to those of us who are what we know are "Tinkers" in our homeland. Contributed by Jack Sweeney, [one of my favorite people], who still lives in Palmer, Pennsylvania.

More: http://www.gypsyloresociety.org/cultureintro.html Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "John L. Sweeney" <sweelab@enter.net> To: "Ray Marshall" <raymarsh@mninter.net>; "Kerry List" <IRL-Kerry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 8:09 PM Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Subject: [IRELAND] Tinker Tribes - CLAFFEY, SHERLOCK,DRISCOLL, CASEY, CARTHY, COFFEY, McQUEEN > Good Evening All: > > "Traveller" is an American expression. "Tinker" is what I knew for so > many > years and is still applied to those of us who are what we know are > "Tinkers" > in our homeland. > > Contributed by Jack Sweeney, [one of my favorite people], who still lives > in > Palmer, Pennsylvania.

I have no other knowledge of this. But when he says "Tinker", I assume that also means "Traveller." If so, some of you searching your families in Kerry might want to check out that angle. Good luck. Ray Marshall Minneapolis, but Pre-Occupied with the birth of storks in Poland right now Message: 8 Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 19:21:59 -0700 From: "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> Subject: [IRELAND] Tinker Tribes - CLAFFEY, SHERLOCK, DRISCOLL, CASEY, CARTHY, COFFEY, McQUEEN, -- Edna O'BRIEN, "Mother Ireland" To: <IRELAND-L@rootsweb.com> SNIPPET: Per Edna O'BRIEN's book, "Mother Ireland," pub. 1976: "The tinker tribes are the Claffeys, the Sherlocks, the Driscolls, the Caseys, the Carthys, the Coffeys and the McQueens. They meet once a year at Killorglin in Co. Kerry for the Puck Fair."

More interesting information about the Tinkers, sometimes referred to as Gypsies, yet history suggests otherwise, that they are indiginous to Ireland. http://www.irish-society.org/Hedgemaster%20Archives/travelers.htm Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Marshall" <raymarsh@mninter.net> To: "Kerry List" <IRL-Kerry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 6:02 PM Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Subject: [IRELAND] Tinker Tribes - CLAFFEY, SHERLOCK,DRISCOLL, CASEY, CARTHY, COFFEY, McQUEEN >I have no other knowledge of this. But when he says "Tinker", I assume >that > also means "Traveller." > If so, some of you searching your families in Kerry might want to check > out > that angle. > Good luck. > > Ray Marshall > Minneapolis, but Pre-Occupied with the birth of storks in Poland right now

Jean, Ray, That "Only a fraction of the ancient Irish laws ("Brehon Laws") written down circa A.D. 700 survives today..." i thought I'd send this on to family members who might one day be interested in the fading hx of their Irish folks. Thanx, God Bless All, Walt McElligott <wmcauth07@juno.com> Beecher, Eastern Will County, IL USA, 60401, POB 452, Editor of Chicago Writers Association (http://chicagowrites.org) CLARION Newsletter (quarterly) July 1, 2007 Message: 1 Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 07:00:40 -0500 From: "Ray Marshall" <raymarsh@mninter.net> Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Ancient Brehon Literature/Laws -- A.D. 700 / Inventory Property of Higher Grade of Freeman To: "Kerry List" <IRL-Kerry@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <JDEMLDCBLONGAEDEIEFOKEONDHAA.raymarsh@mninter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 13:19:01 -0700 From: "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> Subject: [IRELAND] Ancient Brehon Literature/Laws -- A.D. 700/Inventory Property of Higher Grade of Freeman To: <IRELAND-L@rootsweb.com> SNIPPET: Only a fraction of the ancient Irish laws ("Brehon Laws") written down circa A.D. 700 survives today, although what remains of this law literature occupies five large volumes. Crith Gablach, one volume, defines the rights and privileges of the various ranks of society. All freemen were landowners. The brehon (Irish term for official lawgiver) catalogued elaborate subdivisions of each class according to property qualifications. Below is a detailed inventory of the contents of a home of a "boaire" or higher grade of freeman. The furnishings in the home of an artistocrat would be similar although more luxurious: All the furniture of his house is in its proper place -- a cauldron with its spit and handles, a vat in which a measure of ale may be brewed, a cauldron for everyday use, small vessels: iron pots and kneading trough and wooden mugs, so that he has no need to borrow them; a washing trough and a bath, tubs, candlesticks, knives for cutting rushes; rope, an adze, an auger, a pair of wooden shears, an axe; the work-tools for every season -- every one unborrowed; a whetstone, a bill-hook, a hatchet, spears for slaughtering livestock; a fire always alive, a candle on the candlestick without fail; a full ploughing outfit with all its equipment... There are two vessels in his house always: a vessel of milk and a vessel of ale. He is a man of three snouts: the snout of a rooting boar that cleaves dishonour in every season, the snout of a flitch of bacon on the hook, the snout of a plough under the ground; so that he is capable of receiving a king or a bishop or a scholar or a brehon from the road, prepared for the arrival of any guest-company. He owns seven houses: a kiln, a barn, a mill (a share in it so that it grinds for him), a house of twenty-seven feet, an outhouse of seventeen feet, a pig-stye, a pen for calves, a sheep-pen. He has twenty cows, two bulls, six oxen, twenty pigs, twenty sheep, four domestic boars, two sows, a saddle-horse, an enamelled bridle, sixteen bushels of seed in the ground. He has a bronze cauldron in which there is room for a boar. He possesses a green in which there are always sheep without having to change pasture. He and his wife have four suits of clothes. -- "The Irish, A Treasury of Art and Literature," ed. Leslie Conron Carola (1993) ISBN 0-8863-966-1.

Fascinating, Ray. Thanks for that bit of history. ~Patsy~ "SNIPPET: Only a fraction of the ancient Irish laws ("Brehon Laws") written down circa A.D. 700 survives today, although what remains of this law literature occupies five large volumes."

Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 13:19:01 -0700 From: "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> Subject: [IRELAND] Ancient Brehon Literature/Laws -- A.D. 700/Inventory Property of Higher Grade of Freeman To: <IRELAND-L@rootsweb.com> SNIPPET: Only a fraction of the ancient Irish laws ("Brehon Laws") written down circa A.D. 700 survives today, although what remains of this law literature occupies five large volumes. Crith Gablach, one volume, defines the rights and privileges of the various ranks of society. All freemen were landowners. The brehon (Irish term for official lawgiver) catalogued elaborate subdivisions of each class according to property qualifications. Below is a detailed inventory of the contents of a home of a "boaire" or higher grade of freeman. The furnishings in the home of an artistocrat would be similar although more luxurious: All the furniture of his house is in its proper place -- a cauldron with its spit and handles, a vat in which a measure of ale may be brewed, a cauldron for everyday use, small vessels: iron pots and kneading trough and wooden mugs, so that he has no need to borrow them; a washing trough and a bath, tubs, candlesticks, knives for cutting rushes; rope, an adze, an auger, a pair of wooden shears, an axe; the work-tools for every season -- every one unborrowed; a whetstone, a bill-hook, a hatchet, spears for slaughtering livestock; a fire always alive, a candle on the candlestick without fail; a full ploughing outfit with all its equipment... There are two vessels in his house always: a vessel of milk and a vessel of ale. He is a man of three snouts: the snout of a rooting boar that cleaves dishonour in every season, the snout of a flitch of bacon on the hook, the snout of a plough under the ground; so that he is capable of receiving a king or a bishop or a scholar or a brehon from the road, prepared for the arrival of any guest-company. He owns seven houses: a kiln, a barn, a mill (a share in it so that it grinds for him), a house of twenty-seven feet, an outhouse of seventeen feet, a pig-stye, a pen for calves, a sheep-pen. He has twenty cows, two bulls, six oxen, twenty pigs, twenty sheep, four domestic boars, two sows, a saddle-horse, an enamelled bridle, sixteen bushels of seed in the ground. He has a bronze cauldron in which there is room for a boar. He possesses a green in which there are always sheep without having to change pasture. He and his wife have four suits of clothes. -- "The Irish, A Treasury of Art and Literature," ed. Leslie Conron Carola (1993) ISBN 0-8863-966-1.

Eileen, I have sent from my Computer address information, Dingle Parish, you may need........ I hope it can help you ... I am, also in Florida, and called Carolanne~

Fellow listers, I am planning a trip to Kerry in late June and would like to meet any of my Sayers or Cahallan, Cahillane (or similar named ) relatives who live on or near the Dingle Peninsula . My grandmother, Mary Ellen Cahillane, was born in 1878 in Ballinvounig (one mile east of Dingle). Her parents were Thomas Cahillane (born1872) and Johanna Sayers Cahillane (whose mother was Joanna Kennedy Sayers. I understand that my grandmother's home place in Ballinvounig is still standing (a two story stone building), but has no roof or windows or doors. I would like to talk to anyone who knows about my family's history or where I might learn more about them. My grandmother died when my mother was four, so we haven't known much about the family. I am excited about visiting my roots in County Kerry and personal family contacts would make it even more meaningful. I would appreciate any help possible. Thank you. Eileen Grabenstein in Florida, USA ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Dear Kay, My g-g-g-grandmother was named Bridget Timmons and was married to John O'Connor in Ireland. Their daughter, Anna/Ann, (B. 1822, Ireland) ended up in the upstate NY/Vt area. She married Edward McClure probably in the upstate NY area. Edward McClure was born in St. Michel, Ymaska, Quebec in 1820 and came to NY in the late 1820s with his parents and siblings. He was naturalized in Plattsburgh in 1841. Edward's and Ann's first child was born in Ohio in 1844. Apparently, Edward was working on a canal boat at the time. The remainder of their children were born in VT after he became a baker like his father. There are records of him and his siblings in the Port Henry area. Could my Timmons be connected to your Timmons? Sandy Stegmayer Researching Fitzgerald, Deady, O'Neil, Dowd - Brandon area of Kerry Halton of Cavan Scarry of Galway Mullen/McCarthy (Boston) originally of who knows where And many more if I can find the time

Hi, I think most couples were setup by matchmakers (if thats what u mean by Marriage Brokers) up until late 1800's. A woman marrying into a farm would have been expected to bring a 'dowry' with her. Both my grandparents marriages were arranged this way AFAIK. They both married in early 1900's Regards, Fintan http://www.myirishancestry.com ----- Original Message ---- From: "kay1py@comcast.net" <kay1py@comcast.net> To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, 22 May, 2007 2:25:07 AM Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Marriage Brokers and Courting I'm interested in the marriage brokers mentioned in the following email. I was unaware there were marriage brokers in Ireland. Anyone have any further information on them? Also, I was told that a man might court a woman who was within walking distance on a weekend day or a holiday. So if you knew where one of your ancestors came from, then draw a circle perhaps five miles around that place or maybe more if he was young and healthy (or really smitten) and then search within that circle for the sweetheart. Kay those were my thoughts also ( people marrying within a close region ) and when I said 400 people in a parish, I meant just that and not merely the townland, although when you do find the same name families in different townlands, they often turn out to be very close by - a couple of miles at most. But then I was thinking of the marriage broker or arranger used so much in Ireland in the 19th century, they may have introduced couples from different areas altogether ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ___________________________________________________________ New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk

I have a newspaper clipping from the Syracuse Post Standard dated February 9, 1911 stating that my gr-gr-uncle Patrick L. Timmons "was born in Ireland and came to America in 1832, landing at Quebec. Four years later he moved to Onondaga county from Hamilton, Ont." (Syracuse is in Onondaga County.) I assume that many Irish might have gone to Canada first and then made their way south to New York State or a New England state. My gr-grandparents from Kerry, Edward and Ellen Enright Flavin waited until 1901 to make the journey from Ireland to New York, landing at Ellis Island. Kay Timmons

I'm interested in the marriage brokers mentioned in the following email. I was unaware there were marriage brokers in Ireland. Anyone have any further information on them? Also, I was told that a man might court a woman who was within walking distance on a weekend day or a holiday. So if you knew where one of your ancestors came from, then draw a circle perhaps five miles around that place or maybe more if he was young and healthy (or really smitten) and then search within that circle for the sweetheart. Kay those were my thoughts also ( people marrying within a close region ) and when I said 400 people in a parish, I meant just that and not merely the townland, although when you do find the same name families in different townlands, they often turn out to be very close by - a couple of miles at most. But then I was thinking of the marriage broker or arranger used so much in Ireland in the 19th century, they may have introduced couples from different areas altogether

Jenny, GULDAN, could also be GOLDEN, GOOLDEN, GOLDIN, or GOLDING. I have seen different variations of these spellings in the same family. Marge in Southern California Searching: Fee, Cassidy, Gilbride in Fermanagh, Cavan and Connecticut Lynch in Limerick and Connecticut Walsh, Stacpoole, Garvey/Garrey/McGarrey, Donovan in Kildare Golden, Sullivan, Kelly, Shea, in Kerry and Connecticut O'Connor in Kerry </HTML>

Jenny, GULDAN, could also be GOLDEN, GOOLDEN, GOLDIN, or GOLDING. I have seen different variations of these spellings in the same family. Marge in Southern California Searching: Fee, Cassidy, Gilbride in Fermanagh, Cavan and Connecticut Lynch in Limerick and Connecticut Walsh, Stacpoole, Garvey/Garrey/McGarrey, Donovan in Kildare Golden, Sullivan, Kelly, Shea, in Kerry and Connecticut O'Connor in Kerry </HTML>