Jack I am no expert but since I lived in Dayton, Ohio in (a previous lifetime--so to speak) ---I Know it is in southwest Ohio. Off I-70 to the south and about 50 miles from the Indiana state line and about 70 miles north of Cincinnati. It has a very fine University -- the University of Dayton. A some distant past they were a formidable basketball powerhouse. Just very good teams now. The city is home to NCR --previously known as National Cash Register. Also home to a fine Carillon Park and museum with bicycle shop and original car display. Some historical figure named Kettering had significant influence there. (you are permitted a laugh here). More laughs can be obtained however by listening and watching one of Dayton's favorite sons -- Jonathan Winters. As to biermajw@notes.udayton.edu --- the 'bier' I am familiar with has to do with funerals. The 'maj' is used in some centers of "HIGHER" learning to designate what one intends to learn more and more about less and less -- a Major -- in arts, science, social studies etc., the "w" is a symbol for the word 'with'. Now you know how little I know about anything. Clifford Smith in wild and wonderful West Virginia where Kathy Matea is leading the greening of the earth from our corner. -----Original Message----- From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John L. Sweeney Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 6:43 PM To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes Good Evening All: Does anyone know who this is? == biermajw@notes.udayton.edu I noticed the University of Dayton, that's in Ohio I think, it's right next to Pennsylvania and has a large Amish population too. Back from a well earned vacation and roaring to get back to the Kerry List and be of some help or at least pointing guidance towards someone who can actually be of assistance. I usually pick Ray Marshall, he's got nothing to do but pop pills and drink cheap Italian wine for his gout. It's like trying to hold back the tide. Pity that. Love, Jack Sweeney, in very wet and noisey Palmer, Pennsylvania where there's one hell of a thunder storm going on right now. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

One minor correction to Jack's list. Here in "Blue Law Minnesota" it is not possible to purchase strong beer, wine or liquor in supermarkets. But there are places where one can find "deals." Ray -----Original Message----- From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of John L. Sweeney Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:25 AM To: Paul Leahy; irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Irish wines? Good Morning All: Thank you Paul for the explanation of oeno-something. It would seem Ray's tastes in wines are governed by a few musts; 1-the wine bottle must have a screw top, 2-there must be a volume price consideration, 3-it must be sold in a supermarket. I have no such "musts" and none of them have to do with wine; 1-drink only cheap, light, American Beer. Love, Jack Sweeney, overcast Palmer, Pennsylvania. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/894 - Release Date: 7/10/2007 5:44 PM

Michael The current Diocese of Kerry page should have all current assignments. http://www.dioceseofkerry.ie/ Check under Parish Index. Ray -----Original Message----- From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of mldanahy@olemiss.edu Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:25 AM To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] IRL-KERRY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 186 Thanks Ray for the update on reassignment of priests in Kerry. I need to know the name and address of the church in Dromid, Watervillle, since that is one of my targets in finding ancestors. Michael DANAHY http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/d/a/n/Michael-C-Danahy/index.html RESEARCHING IN MA (Hopkinton), IRE, ENG ALDRICH http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~aldrichnaa/ (one m SMITH, earlier ones m CASAVANT, COMEE, http://www.familyorigins.com/users/e/v/a/Jeanne-C-Evans LOVELL, PRAY, PRENTICE, RAWSON, SEALD, THAYER); http://members.xoom.com/jaldrich/Lines/Michael.htm Aldrich Family biographies, go to http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/FamilyAssoc/AldrichBios or go to http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~aldrich/ CASAVANT (who m MORAN); CURRAN (who m DANAHY) DANAHY (b. in Hopkinton and who m LENAN, siblings m. TOLAN, JOHNSON, O'CONNOR) LENAN (who m O"BRIEN); SMITH (who m CASEY); PRENTICE (who m ALDRICH) http://www.prenticenet.com/roots/prentice/robert/#R4 RAWSON (one m ALLEN, later one TORREY) http://www.rawsonfamilyassoc.org/ THAYER (Thomas m WHEELER, son Ferdinando m HAYWARD); http://members.aol.com/Sadie476/Thayer.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/894 - Release Date: 7/10/2007 5:44 PM

For Jack S Glad you're back "all in one piece". You request re "?@notes.dayton.edu" or something like that. Dayton is indeed a Jesuit University in Dayton, Ohio (near Cleveland- SW I think) Since it is from a jeb school I assume it's for research done under the grooup identifier "notes". Hope that helps - if not Dayton's computer people can probly connect you . Reading the chat between you and Ray keeps me going Thanks Roz; searching Shea (from Cashapuca townland outside Tralee) and Catherine Murphy Murphy & family from Ardfert. Both Catherine's daughter and my Ggrand Matthew Shea's son Cornelius wound up in Waterbury CT on Hickory St (known as Shea Alley). -----Original Message----- From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of irl-kerry-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 7:32 PM To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Subject: IRL-KERRY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 186 Today's Topics: 1. Re: IRL-KERRY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 185 (mldanahy@olemiss.edu) 2. Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes (mave77@comcast.net) 3. Priest Assignments and Retirements in Kerry in 2007 (Ray Marshall) 4. Re: Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes (Ray Marshall) 5. Re: Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes (biermajw@notes.udayton.edu) 6. Re: Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes (Foleystph@aol.com) 7. Re: Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes (John L. Sweeney) 8. Park City Utah newspaper (PatsiGen) 9. Re: Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes (Ray Marshall) 10. Aglish (Mary Simpson) 11. Re: Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes (Paul Leahy) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:12:16 -0500 From: mldanahy@olemiss.edu Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] IRL-KERRY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 185 To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <469385b0.3a4.6e3c.24057@olemiss.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" For information about medals awarded by Queen Victoria - an individual whom my great grandfather had to renounce by name - I would start at www.royal.gov.uk Otherwise Google will supply all sorts of official historical government websites. Have you tried buying the medal back from the church? Michael DANAHY http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/d/a/n/Michael-C-Danahy/index.html RESEARCHING IN MA (Hopkinton), IRE, ENG ALDRICH http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~aldrichnaa/ (one m SMITH, earlier ones m CASAVANT, COMEE, http://www.familyorigins.com/users/e/v/a/Jeanne-C-Evans LOVELL, PRAY, PRENTICE, RAWSON, SEALD, THAYER); http://members.xoom.com/jaldrich/Lines/Michael.htm Aldrich Family biographies, go to http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/FamilyAssoc/AldrichBios or go to http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~aldrich/ CASAVANT (who m MORAN); CURRAN (who m DANAHY) DANAHY (b. in Hopkinton and who m LENAN, siblings m. TOLAN, JOHNSON, O'CONNOR) LENAN (who m O"BRIEN); SMITH (who m CASEY); PRENTICE (who m ALDRICH) http://www.prenticenet.com/roots/prentice/robert/#R4 RAWSON (one m ALLEN, later one TORREY) http://www.rawsonfamilyassoc.org/ THAYER (Thomas m WHEELER, son Ferdinando m HAYWARD); http://members.aol.com/Sadie476/Thayer.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:58:06 +0000 From: mave77@comcast.net Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <071020071558.22584.4693AC8E000B68C2000058382207000953C9C90A900E03@comcast.n et> Content-Type: text/plain Hi, I'm thoroughly confused about civil parishes and church parishes - If I have a list of civil parishes, and I'd like to find out which church parish covers each, how do I go about this? I've been googling it and searching it for the last half hour to no avail. i.e. The civil Parish of Aglish - which Roman Catholic church or parish will have the records? Thank you. -A ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:23:35 -0500 From: "Ray Marshall" <raymarsh@mninter.net> Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Priest Assignments and Retirements in Kerry in 2007 To: "Kerry List" <IRL-Kerry@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <JDEMLDCBLONGAEDEIEFOGEILDPAA.raymarsh@mninter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" http://www.the-kingdom.ie/news/story.asp?j=24538 Priest shortage crisis as five clergy retire By: Eve Kelliher THE Bishop of Kerry has announced a major reshuffle of clergy in the diocese with five senior priests retiring from service. The changes will take effect from Wednesday, July 18 and they further highlight a serious shortage of priests in the diocese, with five retiring and just one ordination forthcoming. Parishioners will bid farewell to five popular and long-serving clergymen who will retire in July. These include Dingle PP Monsignor P?draig " Fiannachta, Ballyheigue PP Fr Tom Pierse and Canon Patrick Horgan who has served in Rathmore for many years. Also retiring are Glenflesk native Fr Roger Kelleher, who was parish priest in Firies and Fr Michael O'Leary, the Ballymacelligott priest who was seriously injured in a dastardly late night attack near his home last year. Canon Patrick Horgan will become an assistant priest at St Mary's Cathedral in Killarney, while Fr O'Leary will help out with parish duties at St John's in Tralee. Popular Kilcummin parish priest, Fr Tom Looney, moves to Dingle while Fr Tom Leane, parish priest of Our Lady and St Brendan's, Tralee, transfers to take the helm of the parish in Ballyheigue. Fr Larry Kelly moves from Milltown to Rathmore and he will be replaced in Milltown by Fr Pat O'Donnell who had been chaplain at the Institute of Technology in Tralee. Fr Danny Broderick, who has been parish priest in PP, Dromid, Waterville, now becomes parish priest of Our Lady and St Brendan's, Tralee, while Fr Joseph Begley, leaves the teaching staff at St Brendan's College to become parish priest in Kilcummin. Fr Noel Spring, who has served as administrator in Firies, now becomes parish priest there, while Fr Pat Crean-Lynch, a curate in Ken-mare, has been appointed parish priest of Ballymacel-Fr Kevin Sullivan, a curate who had been attached to Our Lady and St Brendan's, Tralee, becomes chaplain of the Institute of Technology, Tralee, while Fr John Kerin, a curate in Rathmore, has been elevated to the post of parish priest in Dromid, Waterville. Fr Padraig Kennelly, a long-time curate in Castleis-land, becomes a curate in St John's parish in Tralee. Fr Jerry Keane, who has been a curate at St John's, transfers to Kenmare, while Fr Michael Moynihan, a curate at St John's, Tralee, has been appointed to the same position in Castleisland. Fr Con Buckley, a curate in Listowel, moves to Rathmore as curate and Fr Patsy Lynch of the Society of African Missions (SMA) becomes a curate in Our Lady and St. Brendan's, Tralee. Meanwhile, Fr Bernard Healy, currently a deacon, will continue post-graduate studies in Rome and will be ordained a priest of the Diocese of Kerry at a ceremony in Our Lady and St Brendan's Church, Tralee, on Sunday next. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:03:42 -0500 From: "Ray Marshall" <raymarsh@mninter.net> Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes To: <mave77@comcast.net>, <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <JDEMLDCBLONGAEDEIEFOKEINDPAA.raymarsh@mninter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Civil Parishes roughly have the borders that the church parishes did when the Church of Ireland was established in the 1530s or so. They were the primary government subdivisions in the 19th century, along with Baronies and Townlands I believe that they also served as the parishes for the Church of Ireland but inasmuch as most CofI adherents moved away, surely there must have been some consolidation. The Roman Catholic Parishes have changed many times over the years as the Catholic population increased, and then fell after the Great Famine of the late 1840s. You can find small maps of the Kerry Civil Parishes and Roman Catholic Parishes on the Kerry Web Page (where else?). http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlker/civparlist.html http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlker/towna.html http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlker/kerrypar.html http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlker/parishx2.html The only townland location maps that I have ever seen, other than the occasional effort by a volunteer, are those found on the microfiche copies of Griffiths Valuation. The definitive source for determining where your records are located and what years are available probably would be "Irish Records, Sources for Family & Local History" by James G. Ryan. The book is now in its second edition (1997) which is greatly revised from the first (1988) and has about 100 more pages. It is expensive, so try to find it at a library or inter-library loan. Ray Marshall Minneapolis, where we're having a loverly Summer, awaiting the results on the prognosis for one J. Sweeney who returned from vacation much the worse for the wear. I think the man still thinks he is a youth. -----Original Message----- From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of mave77@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 10:58 AM To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes Hi, I'm thoroughly confused about civil parishes and church parishes - If I have a list of civil parishes, and I'd like to find out which church parish covers each, how do I go about this? I've been googling it and searching it for the last half hour to no avail. i.e. The civil Parish of Aglish - which Roman Catholic church or parish will have the records? Thank you. -A ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:36:31 -0400 From: biermajw@notes.udayton.edu Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <OFD206E8B9.5C3F077C-ON85257314.006BB687-85257314.006BB6AB@notes.udayton.edu > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:10:05 EDT From: Foleystph@aol.com Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes To: biermajw@notes.udayton.edu, irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <d54.d28808f.33c5419d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" wHAT WAS THE MESSAGE........TOM ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:42:32 -0400 From: "John L. Sweeney" <sweelab@enter.net> Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes To: <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <003d01c7c343$9ab8b590$6400a8c0@your22ca86d5c4> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Good Evening All: Does anyone know who this is? == biermajw@notes.udayton.edu I noticed the University of Dayton, that's in Ohio I think, it's right next to Pennsylvania and has a large Amish population too. Back from a well earned vacation and roaring to get back to the Kerry List and be of some help or at least pointing guidance towards someone who can actually be of assistance. I usually pick Ray Marshall, he's got nothing to do but pop pills and drink cheap Italian wine for his gout. It's like trying to hold back the tide. Pity that. Love, Jack Sweeney, in very wet and noisey Palmer, Pennsylvania where there's one hell of a thunder storm going on right now. ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:13:29 -0400 From: "PatsiGen" <n2genealogy@comcast.net> Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Park City Utah newspaper To: "Shamrock List" <SHAMROCK@rootsweb.com>, "New England Irish List" <NEW-ENGLAND-IRISH@rootsweb.com>, "Kerry List" <IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com>, "Kelly List" <KELLY@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <01e501c7c347$edb3b3e0$9865fea9@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" A very kind woman noticed that I was researching my KELLY family from Utah, and sent me a link to Utah newspapers online. It is free to search digital copies of articles, see the available papers at : http://www.lib.utah.edu/digital/unews/ My great-great uncle, JOHN P. KELLY, emigrated from Co. Kerry, Ireland, abt. 1879. He was naturalized in Utah, and worked in the silver and lead mines in Park City for nearly 40 years. He married Elizabeth HEALY, who was from Burlington, VT. Starting in 1879, they had 7 children, John C. KELLY, May, Florence, Irene Lulu, James, William, and Stewart (William and Stewart may be the same person, I found a Park City marriage for William Stewart KELLY). I found Park City newspaper articles in The Park Record for John P., his wife, and many of their children. It was so exciting to see these articles and get a feel for the personalities of my ancestors, as well as getting some facts for them. I hope those of you with Utah ancestors can find use of these newspaper articles. (As far as a New England connection goes, John P. Kelly's brother, Patrick, also worked in the Utah mines for a time, but later settled in Hadley, Massachusetts in 1886.) Hope this helps someone! ~Patsy~ ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:14:59 -0500 From: "Ray Marshall" <raymarsh@mninter.net> Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes To: "John L. Sweeney" <sweelab@enter.net>, <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <JDEMLDCBLONGAEDEIEFOMEJODPAA.raymarsh@mninter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" When I heard that I had "gout", I was really depressed because I thought it was an "old man's disease. But then I learned that it was most common in women and young men. O Happy Day! That was after the pain went away. Ray Looking forward to some chianti (cheap) later, in Minneapolis How come there are no Irish wines? -----Original Message----- From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of John L. Sweeney Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 5:43 PM To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes Good Evening All: I usually pick Ray Marshall, he's got nothing to do but pop pills and drink cheap Italian wine for his gout. It's like trying to hold back the tide. Pity that. Love, Jack Sweeney, in very wet and noisey Palmer, Pennsylvania where there's one hell of a thunder storm going on right now. ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 00:21:42 +0100 From: Mary Simpson <mary@msimpson.demon.co.uk> Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Aglish To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <a12d5e4283cee785c70415f8695912aa@msimpson.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed A the old civil parish of Aglish is in the Catholic parish of Firies, they have births and marriages from about 1830, and some births and marriages from the 1880-90s listed in volume 8 of the O'Kiefe, Coshe Mang, Slieve Loughter and Upper Blackwater in Ireland, by Dr A.E.Casey, Mary ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 00:31:04 +0100 From: "Paul Leahy" <pablo@leahy50.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes To: <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <002301c7c34a$63a0fe80$fe774f51@YOURC27A701A4D> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Gout can be a "man who's enjoying life too much disease". Too much good food and good drink, sir! I suggest a month in a monastery on a diet of potatoes and bog water, with absolutely no Chianti. There does seem to be a boom in Irish cider, if it is any consolation....until such time as the full effects of global warming kick in and they're growing Chianti on the slopes of South Kerry... Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Marshall" <raymarsh@mninter.net> To: "John L. Sweeney" <sweelab@enter.net>; <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes > When I heard that I had "gout", I was really depressed because I > thought > it > was an "old man's disease. > > But then I learned that it was most common in women and young men. O > Happy > Day! > > That was after the pain went away. > > > Ray > Looking forward to some chianti (cheap) later, in Minneapolis How come > there are no Irish wines? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of John L. Sweeney > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 5:43 PM > To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church > Parishes > > Good Evening All: > > > > I usually pick Ray Marshall, he's got nothing to do but pop pills and > drink > cheap Italian wine for his gout. It's like trying to hold back the tide. > Pity that. > > Love, Jack Sweeney, in very wet and noisey Palmer, Pennsylvania where > there's one hell of a thunder storm going on right now. > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------ To contact the IRL-KERRY list administrator, send an email to IRL-KERRY-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the IRL-KERRY mailing list, send an email to IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of IRL-KERRY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 186 *****************************************

Wild Irish rose,Wine but don't waste your 2 $ Terrable!!! Dan Dwyer in Medford Ma.

Begin forwarded message: > From: Mary Simpson <mary@msimpson.demon.co.uk> > Date: 11 July 2007 12:24:32 BST > To: irl-cork@rootsweb.com > Subject: Searching for family > > Dear Elizabeth ( and everyone else looking ) > > a quick line to say keep on digging for family, even when it seems > impossible, you find extraordinary side-shoots! > > I realise that I am more fortunate than many in that I live near, and > still have family in, Ireland, but like many others only began > searching for the " family story " when I had the time to do so, i.e. > after my parents, grandparents, and most of the aunts and uncles had > died. So, like many others, began with a completely clean slate and > had to build up, bit by tiny bit, from all and any source that I could > find. I was fortunate in that I had cousins who had done some > enquiring thirty years ago, but even so.... > > What I would like to say is also - collect all and any bit of > recorded evidence, whether it seems useful or not, or relevant or not. > You will end up with a mountain of " stuff ", but the number of times > that I have made a connection on going back and re-reading things long > after I had collected it is amazing. Go to the place that your family > came from, ask around, with luck you will be sent to the local > Historian, who is the repository of the history of the local area, and > to be prized above rubies! I found out recently that our family had > very strong connections to Tom Barry and the Cork No 3 Brigade in the > Irish War of Independence, which my father had hinted at but never > talked about, but it explains his strong support for republicanism, at > least the Irish / British variety! > > So keep up the good work - there are lots of good helpful people out > there. > > Slan > > Mary >

The Pope would be the big difference in the Episcopal and the Catholic churches. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Begin forwarded message: > From: Mary Simpson <mary@msimpson.demon.co.uk> > Date: 11 July 2007 12:01:58 BST > To: "Amanda Clifford" <mave77@comcast.net> > Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Aglish > > Amanda > > You will find that the Catholic parishes in Ireland often cover large > areas, and whilst ( the older generation especially ) many people > still refer to their civil parishes as where they are from - all my > great aunts did, the Catholic parish will include - although, > frustratingly, often not specify, all the little townlands within that > parish on the lists of births, marriages etc etc. Thus they will have > - 18 May 1842, Jas Murphy to Ml Murphy and Cath Sullivan, sponsors > Ds Sullivan and My Murphy - but no place of residence.... > So - the baptism of James Murphy, son of Michael Murphy and Catherine > O Sullivan, Godparents ( usually close relatives, parents or siblings > ) Denis O Sullivan and Mary Murphy, - but NOT which townland they > lived in!! So it's down to family memories and > cross-referencing....... The babies were often baptised on the same > day as they were born, or the day after, and the mother was usually > not present. > > Its the same for marriages, and only later when you get close to Civil > Registration in the 1864 that townlands begin to be included in the > documentation, and fathers of the bride and groom. > > Good luck with your search, > > Mary > > On 11 Jul 2007, at 02:42, Amanda Clifford wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Thank you. >> >> I'm wondering if you can help clear something else for me... >> >> I've taken a listing of all Patrick Cliffords (my great-great >> grandfather) >> on Griffiths and I've created a chart which shows each townland those >> Patricks lived in - from there, I went to >> >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlker/kerrypar.html >> >> and I plugged in all of the corresponding Catholic parish data - I'm >> attaching the chart so you can see what I mean. >> >> Here's where I'm confused - let's take the first entry: Ardmore in >> Kilcrochane Civil Parish - now, the corresponding Catholic church >> information says Caherdaniel and then lists which records are >> available and >> then the second parish info says Sneem and gives me the dates - now, >> does >> that mean that only the townlands of Caherdaniel and Sneem have >> records? Or >> are Caherdaniel and Sneem the two Catholic parishes that cover this >> area and >> then it's breaking them down and showing me which records they have? >> >> This is probably a very easy question but just when I think I >> understand it, >> I start getting confused again! >> >> PS the reason I've marked all the Killorglins as N/A is because I was >> in >> Killorglin in January and I checked the records at the church - I >> think it >> was St. James - I can't remember off the top of my head - and there >> were no >> records of any Patrick Cliffords born to Patrick Cliffords in my >> relative >> time frame - that also includes the Irish spelling of the last name - >> any >> Patrick Cluvanes born to any Patrick Cluvanes - but now I'm confused >> - did I >> only check one parish/church register for just Killorglin the town or >> was I >> checking Killorglin parish records for all of Killorglin including >> other >> townlands? See how I'm confusing myself?!?! >> >> >> Thank you for your help. >> >> >> -A >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com] >> On Behalf Of Mary Simpson >> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 7:22 PM >> To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Aglish >> >> A >> >> the old civil parish of Aglish is in the Catholic parish of Firies, >> they have births and marriages from about 1830, and some births and >> marriages from the 1880-90s listed in volume 8 of the O'Kiefe, Coshe >> Mang, Slieve Loughter and Upper Blackwater in Ireland, by Dr >> A.E.Casey, >> >> Mary >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> <List of Patrick Cliffords in Kerry According to Griffiths.xls> >

Oh dear, Pat. You're inviting controversy, now! As a heathen, the argument isn't mine to partake in, but if I wanted help repairing a house, I'd choose someone who had lived in one and who preferably had some experience at repairing one, rather than someone who had no personal experience of houses, just an expert knowledge of the building regulations. Of course, I'm aware that for those of faith, there are complexities that I'm not addressing.. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: <PMcH532@aol.com> To: <IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 4:03 AM Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Priest Assignments and Retirements in Kerry in 2007 > > Actually, I think it's 'time' the Church started thinking (seriously) > about > married priests. Otherwise there will come a time when we won't have > any. > If I was a man I wouldn't be a priest because I couldn't get married. > What a > lonely life! And I can't blame them either. (And a married priest would > understand the problems of a family better, too, because he'd have a > family > himself). What do you think? > > Pat > > > In a message dated 7/10/2007 12:24:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > raymarsh@mninter.net writes: > > Priest shortage crisis as five clergy retire > By: Eve Kelliher > > THE Bishop of Kerry has announced a major reshuffle of clergy in > the diocese with five senior priests retiring from service. > > The changes will take effect from Wednesday, July 18 and they > further highlight a serious shortage of priests in the diocese, with five > retiring and just one ordination forthcoming. > > > > > > > > ************************************** See what's free at > http://www.aol.com. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

List Members. At one time the Priests were married and they had many children and "Powers" to be found it very costly to keep them all, so they then changed the" Rules". Sorry to put it so "Bluntly" John Patrick Griffiths, Port Talbot in Wales

A brief investigation of world climate will show that before man had smoke billowing industries, the world went through several cooling off periods, (ice ages) followed by an equal number of global warming periods. The north slope of Alaska is tundra now with thousands of very shallow lakes, yet the land was once tropical vegetation with trees, mastodons, saber tooth tigers, short faced bears, etc. All that remain of that bunch are the bears. Man did not cause all of those changes and is responsible for only a miniscule change due to industries now. It is a normal cycle of nature we cannot speed up, nor slow down. We will have another ice age.......count on that. Don Kelly ----- Original Message ----- From: "JP & MC Mizzi" <mmizzi@dodo.com.au> To: <PMcH532@aol.com>; <IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 3:11 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Priest Assignments and Retirements in Kerry in 2007 > Yes I agree Pat. So many married men I know of, who are very devout > Catholics and doing such a lot for charity and the poor, would make fine > priests. Man was never meant to live alone I think....just my thoughts. > > Hey Jack...nice to hear from you again. We are experiencing a very cold > winter here in Nth Queensland that I have never felt since I was a child. > So...is the climate change just a cycle I wonder. Big T.V. special on > tonight about 20 minutes say that climate change is a gigantic hoax. So I > will be watching for fure. > > Talking about wines....we tried a nice wine called Dolchetta by Brown > Bros, > an Aussie wine...very nice for the cold nights. > > Keep happy, > > Mary > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <PMcH532@aol.com> > To: <IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 1:03 PM > Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Priest Assignments and Retirements in Kerry in 2007 > > >> >> Actually, I think it's 'time' the Church started thinking (seriously) >> about >> married priests. Otherwise there will come a time when we won't have >> any. >> If I was a man I wouldn't be a priest because I couldn't get married. >> What a >> lonely life! And I can't blame them either. (And a married priest would >> understand the problems of a family better, too, because he'd have a >> family >> himself). What do you think? >> >> Pat >> >> >> In a message dated 7/10/2007 12:24:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> raymarsh@mninter.net writes: >> >> Priest shortage crisis as five clergy retire >> By: Eve Kelliher >> >> THE Bishop of Kerry has announced a major reshuffle of clergy in >> the diocese with five senior priests retiring from service. >> >> The changes will take effect from Wednesday, July 18 and they >> further highlight a serious shortage of priests in the diocese, with >> five >> retiring and just one ordination forthcoming. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ************************************** See what's free at >> http://www.aol.com. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/893 - Release Date: 7/9/2007 > 5:22 PM > >

An oenophile is a lover of wine, as opposed to an oenologist, who is a student of or expert in wine.. I don't know which category Ray falls into, but it seems he has been known to occasionally visit a licensed establishment to purchase a bottle of oen. I wonder if the word "wine" is a deformation of the Latin "oen"? Sounds a bit similar..come on Latin scholars! ----- Original Message ----- From: "John L. Sweeney" <sweelab@enter.net> To: "Ray Marshall" <raymarsh@mninter.net>; <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> Cc: "Paul Leahy" <pablo@leahy50.freeserve.co.uk> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 4:00 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Irish wines? > Dear Paul and Ray and anyone else who is curious: > > What, pray tell, are "oenophiles"? > > There are many swamps in Minnesota, due to an overabundance of lakes, > but "bogs" no. However, it is much more magical to speak of swamps as > bogs. > Also, grape vines will not grow at all in excessively damp earth, thus > no possibility of grapes and by default, no wine either. > > Good night all, love, Jack Sweeney, Palmer, Pennsylvania which > has no earth or climate needed by grape vines, thus no grapes and > no wine. However, gin is something else. > > >

Dear Pat; Thank you for the welcome home, however, I only took a week off, I just haven't been paying attention to much of anything for months I guess Since I started my new job I've been saving my vacation time and now have about 5 to 7 years worth to use, with pay. I just may go away until 2012 or 2014 and resume my carry-on upon return. Sorry for your weather but unfortunately any people who choose to have their Winter in July deserve some difficulties with temperature, moisture, wind, etc. Love, Jack Sweeney, in warm, occasionally sunny, Palmer, Pennsylvania.

Good Morning All: Thank you Paul for the explanation of oeno-something. It would seem Ray's tastes in wines are governed by a few musts; 1-the wine bottle must have a screw top, 2-there must be a volume price consideration, 3-it must be sold in a supermarket. I have no such "musts" and none of them have to do with wine; 1-drink only cheap, light, American Beer. Love, Jack Sweeney, overcast Palmer, Pennsylvania.

Morning Liz, Paul and Mary, Thanks for your reply to my message re: Catholic priests should be able to marry. I know I probably opened a can of worms but I don't know anyone who has become a priest in recent years. We have five grown children in their 30's and 40's and not one of their many, many friends and acquaintances has entered the religious life. When I was young about three or four of my catholic schoolmates went into the religious and I know at least one of them left before she took her 'final vows'. My point is that if priests were allowed to marry we would have many, many more good men to minister to our spiritual needs and understand the problems and joys of raising a family. They could relate to their congregation better because they would understand what families go through every day. I don't think being married would affect their relationship with God but enhance it. And there are many men (and women? (ooops! Another can of worms?) who would be great spiritual ministers to the Catholic Church. And there are so few priests around anymore we could use a lot more good men. Amen. Pat ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------------- The Catholic Priest is supposed to be married to God the same as the Nuns - therefore, it is their duties and faith that keep them from being lonely. If we allow the Priest to marry - there will be little to no difference in the Catholic Church and the Episcopal Church. Liz ------------------------------------------------------------- Oh dear, Pat. You're inviting controversy, now! As a heathen, the argument isn't mine to partake in, but if I wanted help repairing a house, I'd choose someone who had lived in one and who preferably had some experience at repairing one, rather than someone who had no personal experience of houses, just an expert knowledge of the building regulations. Of course, I'm aware that for those of faith, there are complexities that I'm not addressing.. Paul -------------------------------------- Yes I agree Pat. So many married men I know of, who are very devout Catholics and doing such a lot for charity and the poor, would make fine priests. Man was never meant to live alone I think....just my thoughts. ................ ,Mary ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Thanks Ray for the update on reassignment of priests in Kerry. I need to know the name and address of the church in Dromid, Watervillle, since that is one of my targets in finding ancestors. Michael DANAHY http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/d/a/n/Michael-C-Danahy/index.html RESEARCHING IN MA (Hopkinton), IRE, ENG ALDRICH http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~aldrichnaa/ (one m SMITH, earlier ones m CASAVANT, COMEE, http://www.familyorigins.com/users/e/v/a/Jeanne-C-Evans LOVELL, PRAY, PRENTICE, RAWSON, SEALD, THAYER); http://members.xoom.com/jaldrich/Lines/Michael.htm Aldrich Family biographies, go to http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/FamilyAssoc/AldrichBios or go to http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~aldrich/ CASAVANT (who m MORAN); CURRAN (who m DANAHY) DANAHY (b. in Hopkinton and who m LENAN, siblings m. TOLAN, JOHNSON, O'CONNOR) LENAN (who m O"BRIEN); SMITH (who m CASEY); PRENTICE (who m ALDRICH) http://www.prenticenet.com/roots/prentice/robert/#R4 RAWSON (one m ALLEN, later one TORREY) http://www.rawsonfamilyassoc.org/ THAYER (Thomas m WHEELER, son Ferdinando m HAYWARD); http://members.aol.com/Sadie476/Thayer.html

Good point, Mary. And also on those Baptism records you will see names that are not the names of Townlands. They are the local "neighborhoods", names like we have in the U.S. like Dinkytown, Uptown, North Side, Cherokee heights, etc. Everybody local knows lwhere they are but thy never show up on governmental official maps and records. I went through all the Castleisland baptisms listed in the Casey Collection and listed the names and compared them with Castleisland and other parish townland names. There were more unfamiliar names than there were townland names. And lots of variant spellings, too. http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlker/casparc.html Ray -----Original Message----- From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Mary Simpson Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 6:04 AM To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Fwd: Aglish Begin forwarded message: > From: Mary Simpson <mary@msimpson.demon.co.uk> > Date: 11 July 2007 12:01:58 BST > To: "Amanda Clifford" <mave77@comcast.net> > Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Aglish > > Amanda > > You will find that the Catholic parishes in Ireland often cover large > areas, and whilst ( the older generation especially ) many people > still refer to their civil parishes as where they are from - all my > great aunts did, the Catholic parish will include - although, > frustratingly, often not specify, all the little townlands within that > parish on the lists of births, marriages etc etc. Thus they will have > - 18 May 1842, Jas Murphy to Ml Murphy and Cath Sullivan, sponsors > Ds Sullivan and My Murphy - but no place of residence.... > So - the baptism of James Murphy, son of Michael Murphy and Catherine > O Sullivan, Godparents ( usually close relatives, parents or siblings > ) Denis O Sullivan and Mary Murphy, - but NOT which townland they > lived in!! So it's down to family memories and > cross-referencing....... The babies were often baptised on the same > day as they were born, or the day after, and the mother was usually > not present. > > Its the same for marriages, and only later when you get close to Civil > Registration in the 1864 that townlands begin to be included in the > documentation, and fathers of the bride and groom. > > Good luck with your search, > > Mary > > On 11 Jul 2007, at 02:42, Amanda Clifford wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Thank you. >> >> I'm wondering if you can help clear something else for me... >> >> I've taken a listing of all Patrick Cliffords (my great-great >> grandfather) >> on Griffiths and I've created a chart which shows each townland those >> Patricks lived in - from there, I went to >> >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlker/kerrypar.html >> >> and I plugged in all of the corresponding Catholic parish data - I'm >> attaching the chart so you can see what I mean. >> >> Here's where I'm confused - let's take the first entry: Ardmore in >> Kilcrochane Civil Parish - now, the corresponding Catholic church >> information says Caherdaniel and then lists which records are >> available and >> then the second parish info says Sneem and gives me the dates - now, >> does >> that mean that only the townlands of Caherdaniel and Sneem have >> records? Or >> are Caherdaniel and Sneem the two Catholic parishes that cover this >> area and >> then it's breaking them down and showing me which records they have? >> >> This is probably a very easy question but just when I think I >> understand it, >> I start getting confused again! >> >> PS the reason I've marked all the Killorglins as N/A is because I was >> in >> Killorglin in January and I checked the records at the church - I >> think it >> was St. James - I can't remember off the top of my head - and there >> were no >> records of any Patrick Cliffords born to Patrick Cliffords in my >> relative >> time frame - that also includes the Irish spelling of the last name - >> any >> Patrick Cluvanes born to any Patrick Cluvanes - but now I'm confused >> - did I >> only check one parish/church register for just Killorglin the town or >> was I >> checking Killorglin parish records for all of Killorglin including >> other >> townlands? See how I'm confusing myself?!?! >> >> >> Thank you for your help. >> >> >> -A >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com] >> On Behalf Of Mary Simpson >> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 7:22 PM >> To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Aglish >> >> A >> >> the old civil parish of Aglish is in the Catholic parish of Firies, >> they have births and marriages from about 1830, and some births and >> marriages from the 1880-90s listed in volume 8 of the O'Kiefe, Coshe >> Mang, Slieve Loughter and Upper Blackwater in Ireland, by Dr >> A.E.Casey, >> >> Mary >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> <List of Patrick Cliffords in Kerry According to Griffiths.xls> > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/894 - Release Date: 7/10/2007 5:44 PM

What will you do when your Mom's on her last legs and you call the parish to have Father Sullivan come over and give her the last rites and he replies "Sorry, I can't. One of the kids is sick and the wife had to bartend tonight and I can't get a sitter." Talk to Protestant ministers of mainline churches that allow married clergy. They are just as short of vocations as is the Catholic Church. Ray -----Original Message----- From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Paul Leahy Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 3:55 AM To: IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Priest Assignments and Retirements in Kerry in 2007 Oh dear, Pat. You're inviting controversy, now! As a heathen, the argument isn't mine to partake in, but if I wanted help repairing a house, I'd choose someone who had lived in one and who preferably had some experience at repairing one, rather than someone who had no personal experience of houses, just an expert knowledge of the building regulations. Of course, I'm aware that for those of faith, there are complexities that I'm not addressing.. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: <PMcH532@aol.com> To: <IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 4:03 AM Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Priest Assignments and Retirements in Kerry in 2007 > > Actually, I think it's 'time' the Church started thinking (seriously) > about > married priests. Otherwise there will come a time when we won't have > any. > If I was a man I wouldn't be a priest because I couldn't get married. > What a > lonely life! And I can't blame them either. (And a married priest would > understand the problems of a family better, too, because he'd have a > family > himself). What do you think? > > Pat > > > In a message dated 7/10/2007 12:24:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > raymarsh@mninter.net writes: > > Priest shortage crisis as five clergy retire > By: Eve Kelliher > > THE Bishop of Kerry has announced a major reshuffle of clergy in > the diocese with five senior priests retiring from service. > > The changes will take effect from Wednesday, July 18 and they > further highlight a serious shortage of priests in the diocese, with five > retiring and just one ordination forthcoming. > > > > > > > > ************************************** See what's free at > http://www.aol.com. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/894 - Release Date: 7/10/2007 5:44 PM

According to my paperback Carlo Rossi Latin-English dictionary, "oenophorum" is a "basket for wine" and "Oenone" was a Phrygian nymph, loved and deserted by Paris (not Hilton) Latin Scholar and cheap wine imbiber -----Original Message----- From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Paul Leahy Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 3:43 AM To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Irish wines? An oenophile is a lover of wine, as opposed to an oenologist, who is a student of or expert in wine.. I don't know which category Ray falls into, but it seems he has been known to occasionally visit a licensed establishment to purchase a bottle of oen. I wonder if the word "wine" is a deformation of the Latin "oen"? Sounds a bit similar..come on Latin scholars!

The Catholic Priest is supposed to be married to God the same as the Nuns - therefore, it is their duties and faith that keep them from being lonely. If we allow the Priest to marry - there will be little to no difference in the Catholic Church and the Episcopal Church. Liz ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.