-----Original Message----- Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 00:43:34 -0700 From: "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> From: ireland-l@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 2:02 AM A CONSTABLE CALLS His bicycle stood at the window-sill, The rubber cowl of a mud-splasher Skirting the front mudguard, Its fat black handlegrips Heating in sunlight, the "spud" Of the dynamo gleaming and cocked back, The pedal treads hanging relieved Of the boot of the law. His cap was upside down On the floor, next his chair. The line of its pressure ran like a bevel In his slightly sweating hair. He had unstrapped The heavy ledger, and my father Was making tillage returns In acres, roods, and perches. Arithmetic and fear. I sat staring at the polished holster With its buttoned flap, the braid cord Looped into the revolver butt. "Any other root crops? Mangolds? Marrowstems? Anything like that?" "No." But was there not a line Of turnips where the seed ran out In the potato field? I assumed Small guilts and sat Imagining the black hole in the barracks. He stood up, shifted the baton-case Further round on his belt, Closed the domesday book, Fitted his cap back with two hands, And looked at me as he said goodbye. A shadow bobbed in the window. He was snapping the carrier spring Over the ledger. His boot pushed off And the bicycle ticked, ticked, ticked. -- Seamus Heaney, born Mossbawn, Co. Derry ------------------------------ A DRINK OF WATER She came every morning to draw water Like an old bat staggering up the field: The pump's whooping cough, the bucket's clatter And slow dimineundo as it filled, Announced her. I recall Her grey apron, the pocked white enamel Of the brimming bucket, and the treble Creak of her voice like the pump's handle. Nights when a full moon lifted past her gable It fell back through her window and would lie Into the water set out on the table. Where I have dipped to drink again, to be Faithful to the admonishment on her cup, "Remember the Giver," fading off the lip. ------------------------------ AT A POTATO DIGGING I A mechanical digger wrecks the drill, Spins up a dark shower of roots and mould. Labourers swarm in behind, stoop to fill Wicker creels. Fingers go dead in the cold. Like crows attacking crow-black fields, they stretch A higgledy line from hedge to headland; Some pairs keep breaking ragged ranks to fetch A full creel to the pit and straighten, stand Tall for a moment but soon stumble back To fish a new load from the crumbled surf. Heads bow, trunks bend, hands fumble towards the black Mother. Processional stooping through the turf Recurs mindlessly as autumn. Centuries Of fear and homage to the famine god Toughen the muscles behind their humbled knees, Make a seasonal altar of the sod. II Flint-white, purple. They lie scattered like inflated pebbles. Native to the black hutch of clay where the halved seed shot and clotted these knobbed and slit-eyed tubers seem the petrified hearts of drills. Split by the spade, they show white as cream. Good smells exude from crumbled earth. The rough bark of humus erupts knots of potatoes (a clean birth) whose solid feel, whose wet inside promises taste of ground and root. To be piled in pits; live skulls, blind-eyed. III Live skulls, blind-eyed, balanced on wild higgledy skeletons scoured the land in "forty-five," wolfed the blighted root and died. The new potato, sound as stone, putrefied when it had lain three days in the long clay pit. Millions rotted along with it. Mouths tightened in, eyes died hard, faces chilled to a plucked bird. In a million wicker huts beaks of famine snipped at guts. A people hungering from birth, grubbling, like plants, in the bitch earth, were grafted with a great sorrow. Hope rotted like a marrow. Stinking potatoes fouled the land, pits turned pus into filthy mounds: and where potato digger are you still smell the running sore. IV Under a gay flotilla of gulls The rhythm deadens, the workers stop. Brown bread and tea in bright canfuls Are served for lunch. Dead-beat, they flop Down in the ditch and take their fill, Thankfully breaking timeless fasts; Then, stretched on the faithless ground, spill Libations of cold tea, scatter crusts. -- Seamus Heaney

Hello All, I completely agree with Ray. There are other forums for the discussion of religion. This should not be one of them. Best, John Bierman Dayton, OH

1891 England Census Durham Co, Gateshead Civil Parish, Dist 14 39 Askew Rd PATRICK MCELLIGOTT age 57, retired Naval Pensioner, Born Ballylongford Co Kerry Wife, Mary, age 48, born Ballylongford Co Kerry Dau, Catherine, age 16, born ? can't read, but England (could be Perwick on Ives) Son, John, age 15 born Perwick on Ives Son, James, age 11, born Perwick on Ives Son, Thomas, age 8, born Newcastle on Tyne Dau, Alice age 4, born Newcastle on Tyne Grandson, Henry Morley Hayes age 3, born Newcastle on Tyne Hope this helps someone! Nan

1891 England Census Yorkshire County, Civil Parish Todmorden and Walsden Dist 19--Town of Todmorden 107 Dobroyd House Charles W Thorp, age 48, born LISTOWEL CO KERRY IRELAND Registered Physician and Surgeon, General Practice Wife Edith, age 43, born Lanes Patrieroft England Dau Ethel, 20 Son Spencer, 19 Med Student Dau Norah 14 Son Gerald 10 Dau Kathleen 6 Dau Olive 3 Children all born in Todmoren Hope this helps someone!

Good Evening All: I hope "Ireland, an America's Cup Contender?" isn't as "off topic" thing, primarily because I'm the curious citizen who thought about the matter initially. A sailboat race certainly has nothing to do with Genealogy, not directly anyway, however it is definitely an Irish issue [considering] and probably also a Kerry "issue" [I'll know more about that on Monday morning when I talk to my boat builder contacts in Fenit]. By the way, the Jennie Johnson was built in the Fenit boatyard. I first visited Fenit in 1967 and was affected by the smells of the place, a mixture of shaved wood, fish oils, the Atlantic Ocean, burning pipe tobacco, rope and soft rain. The last time I was there was in 2001, just before 9-11, a lovely place that. Oh, I wander from the topic - subject. So, I'll make a promise to you all [Ray included] that if the Kerry boatbuilders in Fenit or nearby boatyards had nothing to do with Lipton's Shamrocks, I'll end my reporting on the matter and find something more in keeping with the Kerry List intentions. Good night from Jack Sweeney, in very dark Palmer, Pennsylvania

Two days ago the subject of married priests in the Catholic Church came up. This is not a genealogical issue, it is not a Kerry issue and it is not really an Irish Issue. If you want to post on it, please post on some forum such as Catholic Answers where those kinds of issues are being discussed. But not here. Some of you probably are getting the digest version of the list and probably didn't receive notification in a timely fashion. But let's call it quits right now. Ray Marshall Kerry List

I didn't subscribe to this list to hear diatribes about the Church and her policies. Please unsubscribe me from this list. God bless you and God bless America! Tom McCarthy Ah! Sure an She will, Tom. She will. ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

I have been reading our notes this past week and am amazed at how many of our Catholic brethren seem to suggest things that are so alien to our Church teachings and traditions...especially as Irish Catholics who have suffered at the hands of Protestant British troops, thugs and mercenaries. That said, I have friends who are British and friends who are Protestant... I do not hold much of an objection personally to married priests...but, if we follow Christ's example, He did ask the apostles to leave their families behind. The apostles did lead celebate lives. And, although there were some mariied priests in the Church's (and Ireland's (past)...there were simple reasons why this didn't work out. For instance inheritance issues where children inherited church property and offices...it led to corruption and greed. Also, until recently, if we needed a priest, he was available 24/7. It was a calling, not just a job. Plus priests earn VERY little, practically, priests would have to earn much more to support families. So, there are religious and practical reasons for keeping priests unmarried. Then...people brought up women priests? Echoes of Wicca, pagan cults, witchcraft and Satanism aside...I went to Catholic school as a child and my teachers were mainly nuns, they were VERY important. The principle was a nun, she was incredibly important in our school, our parish and our lives. Priests are male in the example of the apostles that were choosen by Jesus Christ (also male). I see nothing wrong with that and respect the traditions handed down to us over the generations from our Lord, Jesus Christ. I am not a fanatic, and I'm not a 'perfect' Roman Catholic (if you read my book, 'Daydreams & Nightmares' at www.lulu.com/content/210331 you'll see that I am as human as anyone else here), though I am a traditionalist and very happy that the Tridentine Latin Mass is back. I don't agree 100% with everything the Pope or Cardinals and Bishops say or do, but...the Church isn't a democracy or a republic. It's a theocracy set-up by Christ, who we believe (as Christians in any denomination) is God made man. I don't think I am smarter than God, who, set-up the male run Church. Yet, I respect and love women. My mom, my sister, my wife and my daughters. So, please don't assume I am some kind of neandrethal misogynist? From the Blessed Mother, Mary to Mary Magdeline, to the many female saints, our sisters and nuns and teachers and mothers and sisters and wives and daughters, women are respected and exhaulted throughout the Church, through our history and lives. Yet men and women are different, as created by God. We have roles in society, in the Church and in our daily lives. That is not controversial, that is not disrespectful, that is not bad, it's just a fact of life. As Christians and Catholics we respect and revere women, men, and life in general. Many (not all) of the people involved in this supposedly pro-women discussion, may be for abortion rights, birth control, maybe electing bishops and changing unlimited facets of Catholic teaching and beliefs...but if you differ so much with our dogma and theology, are you still really a Catholic? I mean that with the deepest respect for anyone with a true conviction and belief...I respect, for instance, Martin Luther. I think he was wrong to leave the Church, I doubt he was smarter, wiser or more divine than Christ, the founder of the Catholic Church, but I respect his convictions and integrety. I respect our Greek Orthodox and fellow orthodox catholic churches too. But, I am a Latin Rite, Roman Catholic and stay in the church, teach my children to be Catholic, because about 2000 years ago, in choosing His apostles and preaching his message of love and forgiveness, and building His Church upon the 'rock' of St. Peter...God in Christ showed me and continues to show me the truth of His teachings. God bless you all, and I hope this didn't sound too preachy...but even with shortages, political correctness and popularity problems, I belive God will continue to take care of the Church...as long as we believe He will, Sorry to have babbled on so much, and sorry if I offened anyone. But I felt like no-one was defending the faith...and as many faults as I have as a person and Catholic and Christian, I do believe in Jesus Christ and the Church He gave us. Like a loving father, God allows us to make mistakes and hopes we will learn from them. Jim Riley www.lulu.com/content/210331 Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Webster's definitions of diabtribe: 1 archaic : a prolonged discourse 2 : a bitter and abusive speech or writing 3 : ironic or satirical criticism I appreciate the thoughtful and respectful comments and diverse opinions I have heard on this list on the subject of the Catholic church, priests and marriage. I don't know how one can bear an Irish name and a Catholic heritage without being concerned with the loss of priests throughout the Catholic world. Burying our heads in the sand is an acquiescence to the the extinction of our church. Nan On Jul 14, 2007, at 1:53 PM, TWMcCarthy@aol.com wrote: > I didn't subscribe to this list to hear diatribes about the Church > and her > policies. Please unsubscribe me from this list. > > God bless you and God bless America! > Tom McCarthy > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all- > new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Good Afternoon All: Evidently Ireland's participation in the America's Cup race was with 5 distinctly different sailboats, not as previously insinuated as the same boat with new paint jobs. All of the boats were made in Ireland, Kerry probably one of the places. Specifically I don't know yet but I think on Monday when my Tralee, Spa, Fenit, etc. contacts are back to work after the weekend I'll nail that down. Anyway, we have a Scotsman with alot of Pounds/Punts who financed the scheme for years, namely Sir Thomas Lipton of Lipton tea fame. As a testament to the skill of Irish [probably Kerrymen] boat builders, the 1930 entry, Shamrock V, a.k.a. Shamrock 5 is still sailing. That boat is older than both Ray and I and much prettier than either of us. The Kerry List won't publish photos, for good reason, so you'll all just have to take my word that she is a very pretty boat. That's all for right now, back with more exciting news after my nap and supper [at the earliest]. Love, Jack Sweeney, in bright and pleasant Palmer, Pennsylvania.

I didn't subscribe to this list to hear diatribes about the Church and her policies. Please unsubscribe me from this list. God bless you and God bless America! Tom McCarthy ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Good Afternoon All: Thanks to the good offices of Pat who lives in Southern Florida, which is North of Cuba, we now have excellent information about Ireland's participation in the America's Cup races. Noted below are the times Ireland competed against the U.S. et al and [unfortunately] lost to us [Americans] in the last go-around. Of course this all was before my time, I had nothing to do with the enterprise. Perhaps it might be indicative that the American's entered 3 specifically different sailboats while Ireland entered 5, all with the same name but apparently with different paint jobs between the races. Thus the "Shamrock" O, II, III, IV & V demonstrates Irish persistence or a lack of imagination in naming "new" things. 1930 - Enterprise, United States def. Shamrock V, Ireland 4-0 at Newport. 1920 - Resolute, United States def. Shamrock IV, Ireland 3-2 at Newport. 1903 - Reliance, United States def. Shamrock III, Ireland 3-0 at Newport. 1901 - Columbia, United States def. Shamrock II, Ireland 3-0 at Newport. 1899 - Columbia, United States def. Shamrock, Ireland 3-0 at Newport. Love, Jack Sweeney, Palmer, Pennsylvania.

Here in Australia the Catholic schools all have uni trained Teachers , there are very few nuns now although my first cousin ,also named after me is only in her late 40's and is head of the Good Samaritans Order in Sydney. Two other rellies were in the St Joseph Order and first cousin once removed train ed for the priest hood but at the last moment changed his mind and has been married over 30 years. Trish in Sydney I think it's interesting to hear where the people (the church, not Rome) are in regard to married priests. I know many priests who left and would've been wonderful serving as married priests. Perhaps it will only be when there are not any priests or nuns to serve that accommodations will be made. I don't think celibacy was mandated until the fourth century. Not only are men not becoming priests, but nuns are in short supply. I hope Rome won't hold on to the institution and building and lose the people. I used to worry about the demise of the institution, but now think it may have to happen... That's my two cents worth. ----- Original Message ----- From: <PMcH532@aol.com> To: <IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 6:08 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Married Priests > John, > > You're right about that. The rule that priests can't marry was made by > man > not God. > > Pat > in very sunny and very hot South Florida > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL > at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/894 - Release Date: 10/07/2007 5:44 PM

Very well said, Jack. My sentiments exactly. Pat in sunny South Florida ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

John Thanks for the inquiry. I lived in Westwood from 1969 -1975 and served as Pastor of Westwood Lutheran Church, LCA. During the "Busing" era. Loved my time there. I did not intend to make light of your name or e-mail but was trying to add some humor to the deciphering. No offense intended. Congrats on your University Teaching career. I taught at Sinclair Community College -part-time. I had and have a lot of old friends that worked at WPAFB. Of course some have passed. But I always enjoy reunions with friends there. I am amazed that Jack Sweeney from Palmer PA. never heard of Charles F. Kettering. But then I cannot find Palmer PA on any map so we are probably even - on this issue only - because he and Ray Marshall are the Irish Gentry on this list. I do have to agree that Robin Williams ranks very high on the comedic list. I am researching James Conway -- and cannot yet determine if he came from Clare or Kerry and Margaret Hastings from Kilkee, Co., Clare whose mother was a Collins. I am back to 1820s but stopped by personal time at the moment. Thanks for asking. Clifford in Wild and wonderful West Virginia where the sun shine this day with beauty on the sparkly flowers after last night showers. _____ From: biermajw@notes.udayton.edu [mailto:biermajw@notes.udayton.edu] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 6:26 PM To: Clifford Smith Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes Dear Clifford, Acutally my wife teaches at the University of Dayton (a Marianist School, not Jesuit) and I was trying to pass a message that the website showing the Civil Parish maps also shows the Townlands. I goofed it up somehow. Anyway, I've lived here for 30 years and am retired from WPAFB. When were you here & what did you do? Best, John Bierman Dayton, OH biermajw@notes.udayton.edu "Clifford Smith" <ccpsmith@suddenlink.net> Sent by: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com 07/11/2007 05:59 PM AST To "'John L. Sweeney'" <sweelab@enter.net>, <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> cc bcc Subject Re: [IRL-KERRY] Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes Jack I am no expert but since I lived in Dayton, Ohio in (a previous lifetime--so to speak) ---I Know it is in southwest Ohio. Off I-70 to the south and about 50 miles from the Indiana state line and about 70 miles north of Cincinnati. It has a very fine University -- the University of Dayton. A some distant past they were a formidable basketball powerhouse. Just very good teams now. The city is home to NCR --previously known as National Cash Register. Also home to a fine Carillon Park and museum with bicycle shop and original car display. Some historical figure named Kettering had significant influence there. (you are permitted a laugh here). More laughs can be obtained however by listening and watching one of Dayton's favorite sons -- Jonathan Winters. As to biermajw@notes.udayton.edu --- the 'bier' I am familiar with has to do with funerals. The 'maj' is used in some centers of "HIGHER" learning to designate what one intends to learn more and more about less and less -- a Major -- in arts, science, social studies etc., the "w" is a symbol for the word 'with'. Now you know how little I know about anything. Clifford Smith in wild and wonderful West Virginia where Kathy Matea is leading the greening of the earth from our corner. -----Original Message----- From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John L. Sweeney Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 6:43 PM To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Civil Parishes: Where to figure out Church Parishes Good Evening All: Does anyone know who this is? == biermajw@notes.udayton.edu I noticed the University of Dayton, that's in Ohio I think, it's right next to Pennsylvania and has a large Amish population too. Back from a well earned vacation and roaring to get back to the Kerry List and be of some help or at least pointing guidance towards someone who can actually be of assistance. I usually pick Ray Marshall, he's got nothing to do but pop pills and drink cheap Italian wine for his gout. It's like trying to hold back the tide. Pity that. Love, Jack Sweeney, in very wet and noisey Palmer, Pennsylvania where there's one hell of a thunder storm going on right now. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message=

Good Morning All: Last night I learned that the Swiss had won the America's Cup a few whiles back. I can understand Australia, New Zealand, England, Canada doing well in that most prestigious sailboat event, but Switzerland! There are thousands of Kerry folk involved with "boating", sail boating included but I've never heard of Ireland as an entry in such a regatta. Has Ireland ever competed in such a race? Love, Jack Sweeney, above the Lehigh River in Palmer, Pennsylvania. [The Swiss?].

Good Evening All: There is much said by many about the current situation regarding the subject of married priests, i.e. "priests" as we all know them to be BUT with wives and children, not what we [R.C's.] are used to, USED TO, capitalized because that accuntates the current reality. However, when Christianity was in its beginnings, after the Ressurection, most of our Christian saints were married and had families, i.e. the Laiety. They were called Apostles or Disciples but not until years after they left this Earth. Most of those folks were men who had wives and children but were the ones who created the beginnings of what would become "Christianity". Today, and during the past generation, there has been a renewal of the kind of "Christian" participation which initially began the whole event. The common man, and of course woman, without titles, i.e. job descriptions, carrying the "Christ following" torch/reasoning. Those people don't go to a seminary school to learn how or what to say, primarily they "teach" the gospel's message by being examples to others of the way, The Way. It seems unimportant to me and, I believe, to our Lord, that the ability to assist others to understand-recognize The Way, The Truth and The Life doesn't require a specific title to be worthwhile, meaningful, successful, etc. And, most important is that the ability is enhanced when the message is delivered by a person who is known to have lived The Way. Love, Jack Sweeney, just one of the laiety of Palmer, Pennsylvania.

In 1854, Margaret Griffin (nee Horgan) arrived in Adelaide with 4 children. One of these was a John Francis Griffin great grandfather of my husband. John married Jane Murphy. Jane's parents William and Mary (nee Horgan) Murphy arrived in Adelaide in 1855. John, Jane were born in Ardfert, Tralee. I'm trying to track down any family members and any known history of these families. Dianne

I think it's interesting to hear where the people (the church, not Rome) are in regard to married priests. I know many priests who left and would've been wonderful serving as married priests. Perhaps it will only be when there are not any priests or nuns to serve that accommodations will be made. I don't think celibacy was mandated until the fourth century. Not only are men not becoming priests, but nuns are in short supply. I hope Rome won't hold on to the institution and building and lose the people. I used to worry about the demise of the institution, but now think it may have to happen... That's my two cents worth. ----- Original Message ----- From: <PMcH532@aol.com> To: <IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 6:08 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Married Priests > John, > > You're right about that. The rule that priests can't marry was made by > man > not God. > > Pat > in very sunny and very hot South Florida > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL > at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Don't know about the weather Valerie , as from my window the sky has rain cloud's. Yes we are haveing a great winter all round . Sunshine and rain badley needed. We do have some wonerful people here on this list and I am sure they all do what they can to answer questions. If we all had the knowledge we would have our family tree finished and then what would we do without the contact of this list almost daily. Trish in Sydney get help yet I am helping people from these lists every day. Come on everyone. !!!!!!! We were all beginners once and only got the knowledge that we have now from a lot of trial and error. So to all those who have been helped how about trying to help with one question even if you do not publish the results. Also you new ones have a lot over we oldies as you are more likely to use the internet where as we all started in the dingy rooms of repositories - which was a great place to be. I can tell you all there is nothing more gratifying than helping others. You can almost feel their joy across the water. So lets all hold hands in this big genealogy circle. Cheers from Valerie in sunny Sydney. -----Original Message----- From: irl-wexford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-wexford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Cara_Links Sent: Thursday, 12 July 2007 6:38 PM To: irl-wexford@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-WEXFORD] BEATTY NAME IN WEXFORD I am looking for anyone doing the Wexford Beatty family, and I only want to talk to those willing to share, not take everything I have done and run as this seems to be the general rul of late. I do have one or two others doing Beatty and we have been in touch and I will continue to share with those persons. Cara ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-WEXFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/894 - Release Date: 10/07/2007 5:44 PM