My greatgrandfather was born in 1841, not 1881. Source: IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Education in Famine Ireland/Kerry With the Union with the UK in 1800 and the Emancipation of the Catholics in 1829, the construction of the National Schools system began in 1831 and speedily replaced the hedge schools. But my ggf, born in 1881, was known to complain that his parents hadn't given him as good an education as he would have liked. So hedge schools must have existed up to the 1850s or so in the Knocknagoshel area.

This report has been on the Kerry web page for seven years or so. Read the full report. Going through the IGSI, you could probably get them to do some research for you that would show the schools in the townlands near where your ancestors lived in the 1820s. The report showed that there were about 350 hedge schools in Kerry at that time and about 30% of Kerry children were enrolled in them at their parents' or a charity's expense. With the Union with the UK in 1800 and the Emancipation of the Catholics in 1829, the construction of the National Schools system began in 1831 and speedily replaced the hedge schools. But my ggf, born in 1881, was known to complain that his parents hadn't given him as good an education as he would have liked. So hedge schools must have existed up to the 1850s or so in the Knocknagoshel area. 1824 Survey of Irish Schools http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlker/schoolsur.html Under the terms of the Gavelkind Act, the (Protestant) Irish Parliament in 1704 enacted Penal Laws intended to make sure that the Catholic majority would never again endanger the Protestant Ascendancy. Among other things, these laws provided that "No Catholic may attend a university, keep a school, or send his children to be educated abroad. 10 pounds reward is offered for the discovery of a Roman Catholic teacher." As the years went by these laws led to the creation of the "Hedge Schools", schools for Catholic children taught by often itinerant schoolmasters, and which frequently met in the outdoors in good weather behind "hedges" for fear of being observed. With the coming of Union between England and Ireland and the abolition of the Irish Parliament in 1800, the English Parliament began to feel more responsibility for the welfare and education of its Irish subjects. The Penal Laws had by that time become effective more in the breach than in the observance and many schools had grown up with officialdom ignoring the fact. By 1810 or so, most of the "Hedge Schools" had indeed died out and more formalized "public" education, much of it for a fee, had been created. But the government decided that a National School System, similar to that under consideration for England itself, was probably needed and the Parliament commissioned studies of the existing situation in Ireland before making their decision. The "Second Report of the Commissioners of Irish Education Inquiry" issued a report in 1826 which published the results of an 1824 survey of EVERY SCHOOL IN IRELAND. They sent forms to all the Parish Priests, Catholic and Protestant and asked them to do a survey of their parishes on a certain day and return those forms with the requested information. The bureaucrats compared the Catholic and Protestant returns and then published a 1,400 page report summarizing those returns. That report is now on microfiche and is available for researching in the Irish Genealogical Society, International library. This wonderful report surveys all of the schools in the country and lists them by County, Barony, Diocese and Town or Townland. The records list the name of the Schoolmaster or Mistress, the religion of same, whether or not the school was "free" or "pay", the salary of the teacher, a description of the school house and its cost of replacement, the number of students, by religion and sex, from both the Protestant and Catholic returns, the sponsoring Society or Parish, if any, and which version, if any, of the Scriptures were read, or not, in the School. While not primarily a genealogical record, this report does give perhaps the only information other than the census substitutes on most of the townlands of Ireland and can, by reading between the lines, provide a hint as to what the lives of our ancestors may have been like. Being you are at the townland level, you may see familiar names; both people who first looked at this at the IGSI Library did. Some schools appear to have been rather prosperous and others were held in hovels. The records do mention some of the "Hedge Schools" which were still in existence. The report also summarizes the activities of the several Societies which were in existence at the time to provide education to the Irish, the largest of which was the Society for the Education of the Poor in Ireland; and also the Kildare Place Society, the Trustees of Erasmus Smith, the Association for Discountenancing Vice (!), the Christian Brotherhood, the London Hibernian Society, and others. Some of the comments relating to particular schools include such items as "read in Greek"; "held in R.C. chapel during summer, and in the master's house in winter"; "mud cabin, thatched"; "an upper room in a wretched home"; "R.C. clergyman says he removed all the bibles and testaments from the school"; "school held in a barn"; "wretched mud cabin, thatched"; "a hut built of sods, under a ditch"; "a good house, four stories high" (Dublin), "spacious dwelling house"; "wood and stone"; etc. The summary of the report which has been made contains a few interesting general observations. Depending upon the County, the numbers of students surveyed in the report appear to be only 20% to 41% of the estimated school-aged population aged 5-15; females constituted 27% to 42% of the student body; and school size, and generally also the size of the classroom, varied from as low as 23 to as high as 60. One would image that with 60 in a school, there would be enough income to provide for more than one teacher. --------------- Here is a report by the Beaufort Parish Community Website on eduction in their parish. http://www.beaufort-parish.com/beaufort/asp/section.asp?s=323 -----Original Message----- From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Fintan Sheehan Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 11:21 AM To: Jeanne and John Hubbard; IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Education in Famine Ireland/Kerry Hi.Werent alot of the National schools (primary) around the country built in the late 1800's. AKAIK my grandfathers generation who were born in 1870's 1880s all received schooling. Regards, Fintan

I found the various comments on education very interesting.Occupation may be another worthy of comments. My gr grandfather Brian Flynn was a tinsmith from 1860 in Whitechapel until his death in Brooklyn,NY 1896.In my many inquires to Ireland I was always told a tinsmith was the same as a tinker, a traveler a gypsy they never settled in one place. Yet Brian immigrated in 1865 and in 1870 bought two pieces of property in Brooklyn ,one with a house and lived there until his death 26 years later. I eventually learned he worked on tin ceilings and tin roofs so he was tinsmith. Dolores Flynn and O'Brien

Hi.Werent alot of the National schools (primary) around the country built in the late 1800's. AKAIK my grandfathers generation who were born in 1870's 1880s all received schooling. Regards, Fintan ----- Original Message ---- From: Jeanne and John Hubbard <hubbard4@earthlink.net> To: IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, 30 July, 2007 2:31:27 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Education in Famine Ireland/Kerry My QUINLAN family lived in and around the Killarney area. Although my direct ancestor, my great grandfather Patrick Quinlan, immigrated in 1850, many of his family stayed. The family was educated at hedge schools according to the descendents of those who stayed in Ireland. Additionally, Lord Kenmare (Browne family) was a Catholic lord and reputed to be a tad more lenient than some landlords in other other areas. Although the Herberts (Muckross) were not Catholics, they also treated their tenants better than most according to the descendents of the family who stayed, thus the greater possibilities for education. My great grandfather could read and write and my great grandmother from Wexford could not. Jeanne Delaney Hubbard -----Original Message----- >From: Amanda Clifford <mave77@comcast.net> >Sent: Jul 29, 2007 2:45 PM >To: IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com >Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Education in Famine Ireland/Kerry > >Hello, > > > >I am still trying to pinpoint from where in Kerry my great-great grandfather >was from - he was born approx. 1837. > > > >In the process of determining this, I've come across a curious bit of >information - he was born in Kerry and lived there through the famine until >probably about 1861 (he shows up in Wales in 1863 when he married my >great-great grandmother, also from Kerry - but he's nowhere to be found on >the Wales or England 1860 census so I'm guessing he was still in Ireland). > > > >In any event, when he married, he was able to sign his own name whereas his >wife was not, indicating that he must have been educated - in addition, when >he became naturalized as an American citizen in about 1887, he also signed >his own name - (please note that his in both Wales and Pittsburgh he worked >in the steel mills). > > > >My question is basically - how did he get educated in Kerry (most likely the >southwestern portion) during famine? Please note that he was Catholic. > > > >I'm wondering if anyone has any information about what education for >children living in most likely rural areas of southwestern Ireland might >have been like during famine. > > > >Particularly, the places I've narrowed down are: > > > > >Townland > >Civil Parish > >Church Parishes > > > > > > > > > >Ardmore > >Kilcrochane > >Caherdaniel > >Sneem > > >Ballybane > >Molahiffe > >Molahiffe > >Firies > > >Coolgarriv > >Aghadoe > >Fossa > >Part Glenfesk (see Killaha) > >Killorglin > >Killarney > > >Coomnahincha > > > >Killinane > >See Caherciveen (Caher) > > >Derreen > >Dromod > >Dromod (Waterville) > > >Drom > >Glanbehy > >Glenbeigh aka Glanbehy aka Glanbeigh > > >Dungeagan > >Prior > >Prior (Ballinskelligs) > > >Garryglass > >Dromod > >Dromod (Waterville) > > >Keeas > >Knockane > >Killorglin > >Tuogh > >Glanbeigh > > >Killurly East > >Killinane > >Caherciveen (Caher) > > >Reacaslagh > >Ballincuslane > >Knockagoshel > >Brosna > >Castleisland > > >Shronaloughane > > > >Dromod > >Dromod (Waterville) > > >Strandsend > >Killinane > >See Caherciveen (Caher) > > > > > >I'm wondering, for example, if any of the above locations might indicate a >difference in terms of the educational resources available. > > > >Any information greatly appreciated! > > > >Thanks. > > > >-A > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/

Interesting question re education .. hadn't considered it myself. My Great Grandfather, Patrick McCARTHY, (c.1810 Kerry) apparently spoke only Gaelic, but his wife, Julia Bridget SULLIVAN, (c.1825 Kerry) could read, write and speak English as well as Gaelic. I'm certain neither of them had much education. "Velly intresting"! Mac McCARTHY -----Original Message----- From: Amanda Clifford [mailto:mave77@comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 1:46 PM To: IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Education in Famine Ireland/Kerry Hello, I am still trying to pinpoint from where in Kerry my great-great grandfather was from - he was born approx. 1837. In the process of determining this, I've come across a curious bit of information - he was born in Kerry and lived there through the famine until probably about 1861 (he shows up in Wales in 1863 when he married my great-great grandmother, also from Kerry - but he's nowhere to be found on the Wales or England 1860 census so I'm guessing he was still in Ireland). In any event, when he married, he was able to sign his own name whereas his wife was not, indicating that he must have been educated - in addition, when he became naturalized as an American citizen in about 1887, he also signed his own name - (please note that his in both Wales and Pittsburgh he worked in the steel mills). My question is basically - how did he get educated in Kerry (most likely the southwestern portion) during famine? Please note that he was Catholic. I'm wondering if anyone has any information about what education for children living in most likely rural areas of southwestern Ireland might have been like during famine. Particularly, the places I've narrowed down are: Townland Civil Parish Church Parishes Ardmore Kilcrochane Caherdaniel Sneem Ballybane Molahiffe Molahiffe Firies Coolgarriv Aghadoe Fossa Part Glenfesk (see Killaha) Killorglin Killarney Coomnahincha Killinane See Caherciveen (Caher) Derreen Dromod Dromod (Waterville) Drom Glanbehy Glenbeigh aka Glanbehy aka Glanbeigh Dungeagan Prior Prior (Ballinskelligs) Garryglass Dromod Dromod (Waterville) Keeas Knockane Killorglin Tuogh Glanbeigh Killurly East Killinane Caherciveen (Caher) Reacaslagh Ballincuslane Knockagoshel Brosna Castleisland Shronaloughane Dromod Dromod (Waterville) Strandsend Killinane See Caherciveen (Caher) I'm wondering, for example, if any of the above locations might indicate a difference in terms of the educational resources available. Any information greatly appreciated! Thanks. -A

My QUINLAN family lived in and around the Killarney area. Although my direct ancestor, my great grandfather Patrick Quinlan, immigrated in 1850, many of his family stayed. The family was educated at hedge schools according to the descendents of those who stayed in Ireland. Additionally, Lord Kenmare (Browne family) was a Catholic lord and reputed to be a tad more lenient than some landlords in other other areas. Although the Herberts (Muckross) were not Catholics, they also treated their tenants better than most according to the descendents of the family who stayed, thus the greater possibilities for education. My great grandfather could read and write and my great grandmother from Wexford could not. Jeanne Delaney Hubbard -----Original Message----- >From: Amanda Clifford <mave77@comcast.net> >Sent: Jul 29, 2007 2:45 PM >To: IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com >Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Education in Famine Ireland/Kerry > >Hello, > > > >I am still trying to pinpoint from where in Kerry my great-great grandfather >was from - he was born approx. 1837. > > > >In the process of determining this, I've come across a curious bit of >information - he was born in Kerry and lived there through the famine until >probably about 1861 (he shows up in Wales in 1863 when he married my >great-great grandmother, also from Kerry - but he's nowhere to be found on >the Wales or England 1860 census so I'm guessing he was still in Ireland). > > > >In any event, when he married, he was able to sign his own name whereas his >wife was not, indicating that he must have been educated - in addition, when >he became naturalized as an American citizen in about 1887, he also signed >his own name - (please note that his in both Wales and Pittsburgh he worked >in the steel mills). > > > >My question is basically - how did he get educated in Kerry (most likely the >southwestern portion) during famine? Please note that he was Catholic. > > > >I'm wondering if anyone has any information about what education for >children living in most likely rural areas of southwestern Ireland might >have been like during famine. > > > >Particularly, the places I've narrowed down are: > > > > >Townland > >Civil Parish > >Church Parishes > > > > > > > > > >Ardmore > >Kilcrochane > >Caherdaniel > >Sneem > > >Ballybane > >Molahiffe > >Molahiffe > >Firies > > >Coolgarriv > >Aghadoe > >Fossa > >Part Glenfesk (see Killaha) > >Killorglin > >Killarney > > >Coomnahincha > > > >Killinane > >See Caherciveen (Caher) > > >Derreen > >Dromod > >Dromod (Waterville) > > >Drom > >Glanbehy > >Glenbeigh aka Glanbehy aka Glanbeigh > > >Dungeagan > >Prior > >Prior (Ballinskelligs) > > >Garryglass > >Dromod > >Dromod (Waterville) > > >Keeas > >Knockane > >Killorglin > >Tuogh > >Glanbeigh > > >Killurly East > >Killinane > >Caherciveen (Caher) > > >Reacaslagh > >Ballincuslane > >Knockagoshel > >Brosna > >Castleisland > > >Shronaloughane > > > >Dromod > >Dromod (Waterville) > > >Strandsend > >Killinane > >See Caherciveen (Caher) > > > > > >I'm wondering, for example, if any of the above locations might indicate a >difference in terms of the educational resources available. > > > >Any information greatly appreciated! > > > >Thanks. > > > >-A > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Amanda, I found this link http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclare/history/education2.htm In the CLARE library useful.. My ancestors come from Kerry and Clare Michael Amanda Clifford" <mave77@comcast.net> To: <IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 7:45 PM Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Education in Famine Ireland/Kerry > Hello, > I am still trying to pinpoint from where in Kerry my great-great > grandfather > was from - he was born approx. 1837. > In the process of determining this, I've come across a curious bit of > information - he was born in Kerry and lived there through the famine > until > probably about 1861 (he shows up in Wales in 1863 when he married my > great-great grandmother, also from Kerry - but he's nowhere to be found > on > the Wales or England 1860 census so I'm guessing he was still in > Ireland). > In any event, when he married, he was able to sign his own name whereas > his > wife was not, indicating that he must have been educated - in addition, > when > he became naturalized as an American citizen in about 1887, he also > signed > his own name - (please note that his in both Wales and Pittsburgh he > worked > in the steel mills). > My question is basically - how did he get educated in Kerry (most likely > the > southwestern portion) during famine? Please note that he was Catholic. > I'm wondering if anyone has any information about what education for > children living in most likely rural areas of southwestern Ireland might > have been like during famine. > Big Snip > > I'm wondering, for example, if any of the above locations might indicate > a > difference in terms of the educational resources available. > Any information greatly appreciated! > Thanks. > -A

Unless you have other evidence I would not automatically assume a person is or was educated. Being somewhat older than most listers, I remember many persons...,who by imitation .....could sign their names but could not read or write. In many cases signing with an x would require a witness to signing as well as an admission of illiteracy........TOM ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Hello, I am still trying to pinpoint from where in Kerry my great-great grandfather was from - he was born approx. 1837. In the process of determining this, I've come across a curious bit of information - he was born in Kerry and lived there through the famine until probably about 1861 (he shows up in Wales in 1863 when he married my great-great grandmother, also from Kerry - but he's nowhere to be found on the Wales or England 1860 census so I'm guessing he was still in Ireland). In any event, when he married, he was able to sign his own name whereas his wife was not, indicating that he must have been educated - in addition, when he became naturalized as an American citizen in about 1887, he also signed his own name - (please note that his in both Wales and Pittsburgh he worked in the steel mills). My question is basically - how did he get educated in Kerry (most likely the southwestern portion) during famine? Please note that he was Catholic. I'm wondering if anyone has any information about what education for children living in most likely rural areas of southwestern Ireland might have been like during famine. Particularly, the places I've narrowed down are: Townland Civil Parish Church Parishes Ardmore Kilcrochane Caherdaniel Sneem Ballybane Molahiffe Molahiffe Firies Coolgarriv Aghadoe Fossa Part Glenfesk (see Killaha) Killorglin Killarney Coomnahincha Killinane See Caherciveen (Caher) Derreen Dromod Dromod (Waterville) Drom Glanbehy Glenbeigh aka Glanbehy aka Glanbeigh Dungeagan Prior Prior (Ballinskelligs) Garryglass Dromod Dromod (Waterville) Keeas Knockane Killorglin Tuogh Glanbeigh Killurly East Killinane Caherciveen (Caher) Reacaslagh Ballincuslane Knockagoshel Brosna Castleisland Shronaloughane Dromod Dromod (Waterville) Strandsend Killinane See Caherciveen (Caher) I'm wondering, for example, if any of the above locations might indicate a difference in terms of the educational resources available. Any information greatly appreciated! Thanks. -A

Daniel, Unfortunately no dates for coming to US only family lore from great grandmother herself. She told her kids she was coming to America for the second time in 1900. She came with my dh's grandmother and sisters. A new note shows a great uncle named Ed Ryan lived in Worcester, MA. time period..........possibly 1890 but all the note states is that "Nell came to his home" so now to figure when Aunt Nell came over..........GRRRRRR. Carol

McCARTHY - SULLIVAN - SWEENEY - SHEA - HENNESSEE, all from Kenmare, Sneem and/or Tralee For years my nephew (Daniel C. McCARTHY - now deceased) and I have eyed unknown miles of microfilm, stacks of fiche, accessed everything on online that I can think of and left queries on BB's like a diarrhetic cat. Several years ago, I sent printouts and $$'s to the official Kerry site (and eventually received a reply from a Ms. SULLIVAN that there were no records of McCARTHY's or SULLIVAN's in County Kerry .. yeh, right). A couple of records and conversations establish the above lines to be from the said areas and the year of immigration to the U.S.A. to be 1854 (1865 for SWEENEY). But beyond that I have no record of entry, or of anything from Ireland. (I know they didn't swim!!). I would gladly hire a reputable person in County Kerry to pursue my interests. Patrick McCARTHY (c.1810 Kerry - 1873 IN) mar'd (est 1844 Kerry) Julia Bridget SULLIVAN (c.1825 Kerry - 1897 IL). Children: Daniel Webster McCARTHY (1847 Kenmare - 1934 IN) mar'd (1881 IN) Mary A. CUSICK (1853 OH - 1941 IN). (My grandparents). Anna (est 1849 - c.1854) Bridget McCARTHY (c.1850 Kerry - 1888 IN) Mary E. McCARTHY (1851 Kerry - 1904 IL) mar'd (1873 IN) Patrick Joseph SWEENEY (1845 Sneem/Tralee - 1928 IL). P.J. SWEENEY's parents were Timothy SWEENEY (est 1800 Kerry - bef 1880 IN) and Abigail CLIFFORD (c.1800 Kerry - 1892 IL). Patrick McCARTHY had a brother, Daniel F. McCARTHY (c.1820 Kerry - 1890 IN). Daniel F. was a successful farmer in Indiana, so he may have done the same in Kerry. Patrick was a RR track gang foreman (nothing surprising there). There were also two unnamed sisters of Pat and Dan: One married an unknown SHEA and the other an unknown HENNESSEE .. the latter had at least one child .. Thomas (est 1845 Kerry - after 1890 IL). Thomas was an heir to some of Daniel F.'s estate). I try to keep a positive, humorous attitude, therefore I am positive no one on this site has any knowledge of these families (no one has to date!), but I hope the joke is on me. Hope I haven't violated any of this site's rules, but I feel this old man is running out of time. William L. 'Mac' McCARTHY Panama City Beach, FL Kerryman@knology.net

Carol, Though I have a John Downey gr3 grandfather, I doubt there is a direct connection (born abt 1895, to US in Pennsylvania 1825, to Ohio by 1830). Do you have any dates for the events you listed? This may help identify info sources. David in VA ----- Original Message ----- From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com <irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com> To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sat Jul 28 03:06:02 2007 Subject: IRL-KERRY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 211 Today's Topics: 1. Downey-Weston (Carol Landry-Fiske) 2. Re: O'Sullivan of Co Kerry (CLabre1068@aol.com) 3. request to diocese (Doug Yorke) 4. Re: request to diocese (Neil Walton) 5. Re: IRL-KERRY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 206 (CLabre1068@aol.com) 6. Re: request to diocese (CLabre1068@aol.com) 7. Re: request to diocese (Kathleen Conway) 8. Re: request to diocese (Doug Yorke) 9. Re: request to diocese (CLabre1068@aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:42:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Landry-Fiske <vagabondiam@yahoo.com> Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Downey-Weston To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <224970.50641.qm@web32511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Weston Whetston Wheston Whatston Whatson Whiston Whistone Whitestone I am once again looking for Ellen Downey (Downing, Downy) married to Patrick W...........a farmer in Ballydribbeen. I have a copy of the parish record where all the children have been baptised and it clearly states Ballydribbeen. I would like to know the Downey connection (supposedly her dad took the family to Chicago/Detroit and they returned but dad remained there)......... Carol in kinda sunny FL ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:41:02 EDT From: CLabre1068@aol.com Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] O'Sullivan of Co Kerry To: mollyesp@yahoo.com, IRL-KERRY-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <d4d.9e286d9.33dbb25e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hello Molly, On familysearch.org there is a family of John Lyne and Johanna Sullivan May 1866, Mary b. Molahiffe Sep 1868, Peter b. Molahiffe Jul 13, 1871, Johana b. Kerry Mar 1879, John b. Cooles, Kerry There is also a John & Hannah with 1868, Patrick, Currow 1871 Hannah, Currow 1873 Timothy, Killarney 1874 Mary, Killarney ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:43:45 -0500 From: Doug Yorke <dyorke@comcast.net> Subject: [IRL-KERRY] request to diocese To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <46AA5901.4090402@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed just emailed a request to the Bishop's office in Kerry. Received a reply WITHIN THE HOUR and they will snailmail me written approval to research records in Dublin. I'm currently looking for pre-1850 information on my GG grandfather, Thomas Teahan, and GG grandmother, Ellen Fitzgerald. My question would be.....if I visit the Kerry library and the church in Ardfert, is there anything to be gained by stopping at the Dublin Library?? (we will be there PRIOR to going to Kerry) Doug ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 22:53:37 +0100 From: "Neil Walton" <waltonfamilytree@googlemail.com> Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] request to diocese To: "Doug Yorke" <dyorke@comcast.net>, <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <C508960030BB4DA086C77DC27A2BD8DB@Lappy> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Doug The parish records accessible on microfilm at the National Library in Dublin are incomplete. This link shows what is available for Ardfert: http://www.ireland.com/ancestor/fuses/rcparishmaps/index.cfm?fuseaction=showidrecords&CityCounty=Kerry&parish=Ardfert&churchid=648 Whether the missing years are available locally at the church, or whether they simply don't exist, I don't know. If you find out, perhaps you could let me/us know. I recently searched the Ardfert parish records at the National Library and have to say they're not easy to decipher; some I just couldn't make out at all. Generally, the older records were the hardest to read. Having said that, it's probably quicker to go through one reel of microfilm than the original records. Hope this helps. Neil Murus aeneus virtus - Virtue is a wall of brass ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Yorke" <dyorke@comcast.net> To: <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 9:43 PM Subject: [IRL-KERRY] request to diocese > just emailed a request to the Bishop's office in Kerry. Received a reply > WITHIN THE HOUR and they will snailmail me written approval to research > records in Dublin. > > I'm currently looking for pre-1850 information on my GG grandfather, > Thomas Teahan, and GG grandmother, Ellen Fitzgerald. My question would > be.....if I visit the Kerry library and the church in Ardfert, is there > anything to be gained by stopping at the Dublin Library?? (we will be > there PRIOR to going to Kerry) > > Doug > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 18:34:04 EDT From: CLabre1068@aol.com Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] IRL-KERRY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 206 To: poncan_gael@yahoo.com, irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <ccb.154ba81d.33dbccdc@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Kate Mansell immigrated Sept 5 1896 (Ireland to NYC no other information) and in the 1900 census Kate Mansell b. 1877 Ireland living in Manhattan servant. Most of the other Mansell Ifamilies I find immigrating from Dingle to Holyoke MA. Do you have the marriage cert of Katherine and Charles Moran, 1904? ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 18:56:40 EDT From: CLabre1068@aol.com Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] request to diocese To: waltonfamilytree@googlemail.com, dyorke@comcast.net, irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <c50.17cc6f0e.33dbd228@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hello Doug, I will assume you have the births of Mary 1840, Maurice 1843 and Patrick 1844 from familysearch.org but have you actually looked them up in the Casey Collection which may give you a townland if you don't already have that. Cheryl ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:42:52 -0700 From: "Kathleen Conway" <kmconway@charter.net> Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] request to diocese To: "Neil Walton" <waltonfamilytree@googlemail.com>, "Doug Yorke" <dyorke@comcast.net>, <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <08e801c7d0a7$d977a040$0200a8c0@KathsComputer> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Neil - and Doug, I don't know if the records have been moved, but when I visited in 1983 I went through the original baptismal registration books that were right at St.Brendan's in Ardfert. They were in the original script and not difficult to read at all. The other church there (can't remember the name, but it may be St.Mary's) was built in 1875, so I think the records you want would be from St.Brendan's. Doug - what is the e-mail for the bishop's office to gain permission? I don't have any plans to visit Ireland at this point, but wonder if gaining permission would give me access on e-mail, or through mail request. Please let me know. Thanks. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Walton" <waltonfamilytree@googlemail.com> To: "Doug Yorke" <dyorke@comcast.net>; <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] request to diocese > Doug > > The parish records accessible on microfilm at the National Library in > Dublin > are incomplete. This link shows what is available for Ardfert: > http://www.ireland.com/ancestor/fuses/rcparishmaps/index.cfm?fuseaction=showidrecords&CityCounty=Kerry&parish=Ardfert&churchid=648 > > Whether the missing years are available locally at the church, or whether > they simply don't exist, I don't know. If you find out, perhaps you could > let me/us know. > > I recently searched the Ardfert parish records at the National Library and > have to say they're not easy to decipher; some I just couldn't make out at > all. Generally, the older records were the hardest to read. Having said > that, it's probably quicker to go through one reel of microfilm than the > original records. > > Hope this helps. > > Neil > > > > Murus aeneus virtus - Virtue is a wall of brass > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doug Yorke" <dyorke@comcast.net> > To: <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 9:43 PM > Subject: [IRL-KERRY] request to diocese > >> just emailed a request to the Bishop's office in Kerry. Received a reply >> WITHIN THE HOUR and they will snailmail me written approval to research >> records in Dublin. >> >> I'm currently looking for pre-1850 information on my GG grandfather, >> Thomas Teahan, and GG grandmother, Ellen Fitzgerald. My question would >> be.....if I visit the Kerry library and the church in Ardfert, is there >> anything to be gained by stopping at the Dublin Library?? (we will be >> there PRIOR to going to Kerry) >> >> Doug >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 19:49:15 -0500 From: Doug Yorke <dyorke@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] request to diocese To: Kathleen Conway <kmconway@charter.net> Cc: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <46AA928B.7060604@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed email address for Kerry diocese is bishopshouse@eircom.net. They asked me for my mailing address so they could (snail)mail it to me. Doug Kathleen Conway wrote: > Neil - and Doug, > I don't know if the records have been moved, but when I visited in > 1983 I went through the original baptismal registration books that > were right at St.Brendan's in Ardfert. They were in the original > script and not difficult to read at all. The other church there (can't > remember the name, but it may be St.Mary's) was built in 1875, so I > think the records you want would be from St.Brendan's. > > Doug - what is the e-mail for the bishop's office to gain permission? > I don't have any plans to visit Ireland at this point, but wonder if > gaining permission would give me access on e-mail, or through mail > request. > > Please let me know. > Thanks. > Kathleen > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Walton" > <waltonfamilytree@googlemail.com> > To: "Doug Yorke" <dyorke@comcast.net>; <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 2:53 PM > Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] request to diocese > > >> Doug >> >> The parish records accessible on microfilm at the National Library in >> Dublin >> are incomplete. This link shows what is available for Ardfert: >> http://www.ireland.com/ancestor/fuses/rcparishmaps/index.cfm?fuseaction=showidrecords&CityCounty=Kerry&parish=Ardfert&churchid=648 >> >> >> Whether the missing years are available locally at the church, or >> whether >> they simply don't exist, I don't know. If you find out, perhaps you >> could >> let me/us know. >> >> I recently searched the Ardfert parish records at the National >> Library and >> have to say they're not easy to decipher; some I just couldn't make >> out at >> all. Generally, the older records were the hardest to read. Having said >> that, it's probably quicker to go through one reel of microfilm than the >> original records. >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> Neil >> >> >> >> Murus aeneus virtus - Virtue is a wall of brass >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Doug Yorke" <dyorke@comcast.net> >> To: <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 9:43 PM >> Subject: [IRL-KERRY] request to diocese >> >>> just emailed a request to the Bishop's office in Kerry. Received a >>> reply >>> WITHIN THE HOUR and they will snailmail me written approval to research >>> records in Dublin. >>> >>> I'm currently looking for pre-1850 information on my GG grandfather, >>> Thomas Teahan, and GG grandmother, Ellen Fitzgerald. My question would >>> be.....if I visit the Kerry library and the church in Ardfert, is there >>> anything to be gained by stopping at the Dublin Library?? (we will be >>> there PRIOR to going to Kerry) >>> >>> Doug >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 21:22:20 EDT From: CLabre1068@aol.com Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] request to diocese To: dyorke@comcast.net, IRL-KERRY-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <bf1.1893ddf3.33dbf44c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Doug, Thanks to Ray Marshall, there is an index of the Casey Collection online. You would need to order the appropriate volume or volumes from your local family history library (or check the list at the bottom for a local university) to gain the information needed. It looks like volume 8 would give you the marriage record and births you are looking for. You have the dates so it shouldn't be too difficult to find the information. I have found that the Casey Collection gives the parents names on marriage records and townland on birth records. This way you might be able to connect the local sexton for a local of the graves before your trip. _http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlker/caseydescription.html_ (http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlker/caseydescription.html) Cheryl ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ To contact the IRL-KERRY list administrator, send an email to IRL-KERRY-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the IRL-KERRY mailing list, send an email to IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of IRL-KERRY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 211 *****************************************

Doug The parish records accessible on microfilm at the National Library in Dublin are incomplete. This link shows what is available for Ardfert: http://www.ireland.com/ancestor/fuses/rcparishmaps/index.cfm?fuseaction=showidrecords&CityCounty=Kerry&parish=Ardfert&churchid=648 Whether the missing years are available locally at the church, or whether they simply don't exist, I don't know. If you find out, perhaps you could let me/us know. I recently searched the Ardfert parish records at the National Library and have to say they're not easy to decipher; some I just couldn't make out at all. Generally, the older records were the hardest to read. Having said that, it's probably quicker to go through one reel of microfilm than the original records. Hope this helps. Neil Murus aeneus virtus - Virtue is a wall of brass ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Yorke" <dyorke@comcast.net> To: <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 9:43 PM Subject: [IRL-KERRY] request to diocese > just emailed a request to the Bishop's office in Kerry. Received a reply > WITHIN THE HOUR and they will snailmail me written approval to research > records in Dublin. > > I'm currently looking for pre-1850 information on my GG grandfather, > Thomas Teahan, and GG grandmother, Ellen Fitzgerald. My question would > be.....if I visit the Kerry library and the church in Ardfert, is there > anything to be gained by stopping at the Dublin Library?? (we will be > there PRIOR to going to Kerry) > > Doug > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Doug, Thanks to Ray Marshall, there is an index of the Casey Collection online. You would need to order the appropriate volume or volumes from your local family history library (or check the list at the bottom for a local university) to gain the information needed. It looks like volume 8 would give you the marriage record and births you are looking for. You have the dates so it shouldn't be too difficult to find the information. I have found that the Casey Collection gives the parents names on marriage records and townland on birth records. This way you might be able to connect the local sexton for a local of the graves before your trip. _http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlker/caseydescription.html_ (http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlker/caseydescription.html) Cheryl ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

email address for Kerry diocese is bishopshouse@eircom.net. They asked me for my mailing address so they could (snail)mail it to me. Doug Kathleen Conway wrote: > Neil - and Doug, > I don't know if the records have been moved, but when I visited in > 1983 I went through the original baptismal registration books that > were right at St.Brendan's in Ardfert. They were in the original > script and not difficult to read at all. The other church there (can't > remember the name, but it may be St.Mary's) was built in 1875, so I > think the records you want would be from St.Brendan's. > > Doug - what is the e-mail for the bishop's office to gain permission? > I don't have any plans to visit Ireland at this point, but wonder if > gaining permission would give me access on e-mail, or through mail > request. > > Please let me know. > Thanks. > Kathleen > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Walton" > <waltonfamilytree@googlemail.com> > To: "Doug Yorke" <dyorke@comcast.net>; <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 2:53 PM > Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] request to diocese > > >> Doug >> >> The parish records accessible on microfilm at the National Library in >> Dublin >> are incomplete. This link shows what is available for Ardfert: >> http://www.ireland.com/ancestor/fuses/rcparishmaps/index.cfm?fuseaction=showidrecords&CityCounty=Kerry&parish=Ardfert&churchid=648 >> >> >> Whether the missing years are available locally at the church, or >> whether >> they simply don't exist, I don't know. If you find out, perhaps you >> could >> let me/us know. >> >> I recently searched the Ardfert parish records at the National >> Library and >> have to say they're not easy to decipher; some I just couldn't make >> out at >> all. Generally, the older records were the hardest to read. Having said >> that, it's probably quicker to go through one reel of microfilm than the >> original records. >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> Neil >> >> >> >> Murus aeneus virtus - Virtue is a wall of brass >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Doug Yorke" <dyorke@comcast.net> >> To: <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 9:43 PM >> Subject: [IRL-KERRY] request to diocese >> >>> just emailed a request to the Bishop's office in Kerry. Received a >>> reply >>> WITHIN THE HOUR and they will snailmail me written approval to research >>> records in Dublin. >>> >>> I'm currently looking for pre-1850 information on my GG grandfather, >>> Thomas Teahan, and GG grandmother, Ellen Fitzgerald. My question would >>> be.....if I visit the Kerry library and the church in Ardfert, is there >>> anything to be gained by stopping at the Dublin Library?? (we will be >>> there PRIOR to going to Kerry) >>> >>> Doug >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >

Hello Doug, I will assume you have the births of Mary 1840, Maurice 1843 and Patrick 1844 from familysearch.org but have you actually looked them up in the Casey Collection which may give you a townland if you don't already have that. Cheryl ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Kate Mansell immigrated Sept 5 1896 (Ireland to NYC no other information) and in the 1900 census Kate Mansell b. 1877 Ireland living in Manhattan servant. Most of the other Mansell Ifamilies I find immigrating from Dingle to Holyoke MA. Do you have the marriage cert of Katherine and Charles Moran, 1904? ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Neil - and Doug, I don't know if the records have been moved, but when I visited in 1983 I went through the original baptismal registration books that were right at St.Brendan's in Ardfert. They were in the original script and not difficult to read at all. The other church there (can't remember the name, but it may be St.Mary's) was built in 1875, so I think the records you want would be from St.Brendan's. Doug - what is the e-mail for the bishop's office to gain permission? I don't have any plans to visit Ireland at this point, but wonder if gaining permission would give me access on e-mail, or through mail request. Please let me know. Thanks. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Walton" <waltonfamilytree@googlemail.com> To: "Doug Yorke" <dyorke@comcast.net>; <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] request to diocese > Doug > > The parish records accessible on microfilm at the National Library in > Dublin > are incomplete. This link shows what is available for Ardfert: > http://www.ireland.com/ancestor/fuses/rcparishmaps/index.cfm?fuseaction=showidrecords&CityCounty=Kerry&parish=Ardfert&churchid=648 > > Whether the missing years are available locally at the church, or whether > they simply don't exist, I don't know. If you find out, perhaps you could > let me/us know. > > I recently searched the Ardfert parish records at the National Library and > have to say they're not easy to decipher; some I just couldn't make out at > all. Generally, the older records were the hardest to read. Having said > that, it's probably quicker to go through one reel of microfilm than the > original records. > > Hope this helps. > > Neil > > > > Murus aeneus virtus - Virtue is a wall of brass > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doug Yorke" <dyorke@comcast.net> > To: <irl-kerry@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 9:43 PM > Subject: [IRL-KERRY] request to diocese > >> just emailed a request to the Bishop's office in Kerry. Received a reply >> WITHIN THE HOUR and they will snailmail me written approval to research >> records in Dublin. >> >> I'm currently looking for pre-1850 information on my GG grandfather, >> Thomas Teahan, and GG grandmother, Ellen Fitzgerald. My question would >> be.....if I visit the Kerry library and the church in Ardfert, is there >> anything to be gained by stopping at the Dublin Library?? (we will be >> there PRIOR to going to Kerry) >> >> Doug >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Molly, On familysearch.org there is a family of John Lyne and Johanna Sullivan May 1866, Mary b. Molahiffe Sep 1868, Peter b. Molahiffe Jul 13, 1871, Johana b. Kerry Mar 1879, John b. Cooles, Kerry There is also a John & Hannah with 1868, Patrick, Currow 1871 Hannah, Currow 1873 Timothy, Killarney 1874 Mary, Killarney ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

just emailed a request to the Bishop's office in Kerry. Received a reply WITHIN THE HOUR and they will snailmail me written approval to research records in Dublin. I'm currently looking for pre-1850 information on my GG grandfather, Thomas Teahan, and GG grandmother, Ellen Fitzgerald. My question would be.....if I visit the Kerry library and the church in Ardfert, is there anything to be gained by stopping at the Dublin Library?? (we will be there PRIOR to going to Kerry) Doug