Hi Pat, I have worked with a couple of people at the Tralee library and they were very helpful, though ultimately unsuccessful. I am going to email them and tell them I'll be there in October--I'm looking forward to finally meeting them! I have an LDS library about 15 miles away so will put in my order. Do you know if it will give me the name of other children? If not, it probably won't be very helpful. I have heard from others that Kerry airport is the one but wondered if it was worth seeing Cork (even if it is only driving out of and into) since I will be so close! I will go ahead and book the flight to Kerry and do Cork on another visit. Thanks, Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: PMcH532@aol.com To: donnarussell5@comcast.net Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Trip to Killarney Hi Donna, I saw your post about your trip to Killarney and thought I'd tell you to check out the library there. Here's the website with the Kerry library branches listed. Just click on Killarney and you can email them. http://www.kerrycountylibrary.com/ I emailed the Tralee library and asked if they had any catholic church records for Currow and Knocknagoshel which is where my ancestors are from. Michael Costello emailed me back and said they had the baptismal and marriage records for Currow there which were freely available but that the Knocknagoshel records were held at the catholic church (St. Mary's) in Knocknagoshel. I know that to search these records at the church I'll need a letter from the Bishop of Kerry so I emailed him and am waiting for the letter to arrive in snail mail giving his permission. Hopefully it will get to me before we leave for Ireland on Sept. 10. We'll only have a limited time to do research on our trip which is mainly for golf but I looked up some possible places to visit or get information from if I have time. Kerry Genealogical Society 119 120 Rock Street Tralee, County Kerry 066-21200 (calls within Ireland) Kerry Diocesean Genealogical Center % Fr. Ciaran O'Shea Castleisland, County Kerry 066 41598 (within Ireland) You said that you found a baptism in the Family Search database that could possibly be your g uncle. If you found this information on the Family Search website of the Family History Library than those batch numbers are for the microfilm which has the records of his birth on it and other information about parents, etc. Find the closest Family History Library and call them to order the microfilm and when it comes in go and view it on their microfilm machines. Ask whoever you talk to for help ordering the correct film number. It takes about three or four weeks for them to get it from Salt Lake City and it costs you about $5. Then it's available to you for 2 to 4 weeks. I've done it and the people we very nice and helpful. If he is your g uncle it should give you the info you need. By the way, the Kerry airport is only 11 miles from Killarney so that's the airport you should use. The Cork is 56 miles away. That's too far. Good luck and I hopes this helps you in some way. Pat McHale looking forward to my own trip to the 'old sod'. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

Hi Marie, Thank you, this is helpful. Do you know if I need to know the name of the Parish? I only know that he was born in Killarney and he was Catholic--does that help narrow down where I might find the records? Thanks, Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marie Wallace" <mkatonak@mindspring.com> To: "Donna Russell" <donnarussell5@comcast.net>; "Kerry List" <IRL-Kerry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Trip to Killarney > Hi Donna, > > You have not given yourself enough time for any really good research, but > my recommendation is that you fly in Kerry Airport, go to the Catholic > Church OFFICE and ask them if the holder of the chuch records could help > (usually the deacon)locate any information for you. He keeps the records > in the vestry behind the altar. DO NOT MENTION THAT YOU ARE DOING > GENEALOGY WORK! It turns them all off on Americans and they clam up on > you. We were fortunate that my husband was applying for his Irish > Citizenship and needed the records of his grandparents and great > grandparents. > > BE AWARE! Nobody in Ireland wants you to see the church records without > "crossing their palms with GOLD"! When my husband and I went they would > only pull out the printouts that the Mormons had done and I had already > gotten all the information from the LDS records before going. > > GOOD LUCK! > > Marie > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Donna Russell <donnarussell5@comcast.net> >>Sent: Sep 2, 2007 11:45 AM >>To: Kerry List <IRL-Kerry@rootsweb.com> >>Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Trip to Killarney >> >>Hi Everyone, >>Now that summer is coming to an end, vacation is over, and school supplies >>have been purchased, I am ready to get back on the trail of my elusive >>ancestors from Killarney! I have made my reservations--I am in London from >>October 17 through noon on the 20th for a conference and I have booked a >>flight home from London (Heathrow) on Wednesday the 24th. So, I now have >>to decide how much time to spend in Ireland v. London--I have never been >>to either place. I have found flights from Gatwick and Stansted that will >>get me to either Cork or Kerry. I have to return to London very early >>Wednesday morning so I don't have much time. Having never been to either >>place, I'm trying to decide how much time to spend in London before >>heading to Ireland. So, my first question is: what do you recommend? >>Spending most of my free time in Ireland or splitting my time between both >>places? I'd like to take a tour of the city--bus or walking--and at least >>see the British Museum. Is it possible to do t! >> hat in 2 half days? I arrive around noon on Wednesday and, if I'm not too >> exhausted, can do something that day. I also have from noon on Saturday. >> My second question is: Is it better to fly into Cork and drive to >> Killarney and see some more of the country, or fly straight into the >> Kerry Airport? >> >>Finally, I have not gotten any closer to finding my g-grandmother's maiden >>name. But I did see in the Family Search database a baptism that might be >>my g-uncle. The problem is that I have no idea what to do next! I don't >>know what possible information might be contained in these records. Would >>it list other children and their birth dates? If so, I would hope to find >>my g-grandmother since she was 2 years older than him. Here is what I >>found (I've bolded the text that have links to follow): >> >>JN Sullivan, Male >>Christening: 25 AUG 1849 Roman Catholic, Killarney, Kerry, Ireland >>Parents: >>Father: TY. Sullivan >>Mother: Ellen Kelly >> >>Messages: >>Extracted birth or christening record for the locally listed in the >>record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the >>birth or christening event. >> >>Source information: >>Batch No. C700903 >>Date: 1840 >>Source Call No.: 823804-805, 0823809 >>Type: Book >>Printout Call No.: 0883698 >>Type: Film >> >>Batch No.: C700903 >>Dates: 1840-1865 >>Source Call No. 0823804-805, 0823809 >>Type: Film >>Printout Call No.: NONE >> >>Batch No.: C700903 >>Dates: 1865-1875 >>Source Call No.: 0823804-805, 0823809 >>Type: Film >>Printout Call No.: NONE >> >>I am hoping someone can tell me what I need to do to gain access to these >>records and if there is a good strategy for searching. What does it mean >>if there is no printout call number? Any advice will be greatly >>appreciated! At this point, I don't really have any trail to follow once I >>arrive in Killarney. All I know is that my g-grandmother and a brother >>were born there in 1847 and 1849 and their Dad's name. I also know they >>arrived in America in 1866. >> >>Thank you for your help! >> >>Donna >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Everyone, Now that summer is coming to an end, vacation is over, and school supplies have been purchased, I am ready to get back on the trail of my elusive ancestors from Killarney! I have made my reservations--I am in London from October 17 through noon on the 20th for a conference and I have booked a flight home from London (Heathrow) on Wednesday the 24th. So, I now have to decide how much time to spend in Ireland v. London--I have never been to either place. I have found flights from Gatwick and Stansted that will get me to either Cork or Kerry. I have to return to London very early Wednesday morning so I don't have much time. Having never been to either place, I'm trying to decide how much time to spend in London before heading to Ireland. So, my first question is: what do you recommend? Spending most of my free time in Ireland or splitting my time between both places? I'd like to take a tour of the city--bus or walking--and at least see the British Museum. Is it possible to do that in 2 half days? I arrive around noon on Wednesday and, if I'm not too exhausted, can do something that day. I also have from noon on Saturday. My second question is: Is it better to fly into Cork and drive to Killarney and see some more of the country, or fly straight into the Kerry Airport? Finally, I have not gotten any closer to finding my g-grandmother's maiden name. But I did see in the Family Search database a baptism that might be my g-uncle. The problem is that I have no idea what to do next! I don't know what possible information might be contained in these records. Would it list other children and their birth dates? If so, I would hope to find my g-grandmother since she was 2 years older than him. Here is what I found (I've bolded the text that have links to follow): JN Sullivan, Male Christening: 25 AUG 1849 Roman Catholic, Killarney, Kerry, Ireland Parents: Father: TY. Sullivan Mother: Ellen Kelly Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locally listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening event. Source information: Batch No. C700903 Date: 1840 Source Call No.: 823804-805, 0823809 Type: Book Printout Call No.: 0883698 Type: Film Batch No.: C700903 Dates: 1840-1865 Source Call No. 0823804-805, 0823809 Type: Film Printout Call No.: NONE Batch No.: C700903 Dates: 1865-1875 Source Call No.: 0823804-805, 0823809 Type: Film Printout Call No.: NONE I am hoping someone can tell me what I need to do to gain access to these records and if there is a good strategy for searching. What does it mean if there is no printout call number? Any advice will be greatly appreciated! At this point, I don't really have any trail to follow once I arrive in Killarney. All I know is that my g-grandmother and a brother were born there in 1847 and 1849 and their Dad's name. I also know they arrived in America in 1866. Thank you for your help! Donna

Am looking for more information on Dan King who died this last week (August 20-24, 2007) as reported in The Limerick Leader, Asdee news. He was formerly of Beale, Ballybunion. Would anyone know the family members? Was he from the King family of Letter (Littur). Thank you, Jenny

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 01:18:44 -0700 From: "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> Subject: [IRELAND] Migrants from Palatinate region of Germany - Sir Thos. SOUTHWELL/Rathkeale, Co. Limerick To: <IRELAND-L@rootsweb.com> SNIPPET: The July-Aug 2004 issue of Dublin's "Ireland of the Welcomes" magazine has an interesting several-page article with text and colorful illustrations by Dan BARRETT, a retired postman/freelance writer living in Co. Tipperary. And a good resource for researchers is the Rathkeale, Co. Limerick Irish Palatine Heritage Centre. Some of the surnames associated with the Irish Palatine experience: SHIER, HECK, RUTTLE, JACOB, SPARLING, LAURENCE, BOWEN, STEEPE, COOKE, BARKMAN, CRONSBERRY, TESKEY, YOUNG, MILLER, BAKER, REYNARD, COLE, LOWE, BOVENIZER, LEGEAR, BENNER, ALTON, STARK, GILLIARD, MEE, PIPER, ST. JOHN and SWITZER. It was a SWITZER, from neighbouring Co. Tipperary that founded the famous Dublin fashion house of the same name. You might want to read a recent work, "People make Places," by Dr. Patrick J. O'CONNOR, which deals comprehensively with all aspects of the Irish Palatine odyssey. Photographs in the IOTW magazine include: (1) Typical dress worn by Palatines in the 18th century, costumes presented to the IPA at a gathering of Irish Palatines from around the world recently held in Germany. (2) The Irish Palatine Heritage Centre, Rathkeale, Co. Limerick. (3) Embury and Heck Memorial Methodist Church at Ballingrane built by the Irish Palatines in 1766; renovated in 1885, still used by members of the Methodist community in Co. Limerick. Its name commemorates those who brought Methodism to America - Philip EMBRY, a Rathkeale Palatine created Methodist preacher and cousin Barbara HECK, who sailed for America in 1760 where they established a Methodist community. (4) Castle Matrix, built as a Desmond stronghold in the middle of the 15th century, it became the home of the SOUTHWELL family in the early 1600s and was converted into a manor house. (5) Holy Trinity Church of Ireland in Rathkeale, where many Palatine names are recorded on the gravestones. Clever drawings by the author include Palatines arriving in Ireland and superior farming techniques which the Palatines bought to Ireland. Read more about the early Palatines departure to the New World, and during the Spring of 1709 about 11,000 people comprising several different families arriving in London from Rotterdam, the second leg of their proposed journey to America. Learn more about misfortunate Palatines essentially being stranded there, the camp settlements in London, solutions to the "indigent crisis," Irish landlord classes asked to encourage people onto their estates to bolster Protestant presence and because they were skilled agriculturists ..... Palatines arrived in Ireland in the early days of September 1709. Although subsequently experiencing poor treatment in Dublin,as had been the case in London, some settlers left for England again circa 1711. . During the years following their arrival in Ireland, the Palatines who for the most part were Lutheran and Protestant by persuasion, slowly became lukewarm in regards to religious practice, possibly due to lack of preachers and religious direction. As time progressed they enthusiastically embraced Methodism. Eventually -- "The county of Limerick, and to a lesser extent, the counties of Wexford and Carlow would become the major centres of a Palatine presence. In Limerick, Sir Thomas SOUTHWELL, with vast estates around Rathkeale took in innumerable displaced German families and settled them on his lands. Unlike nearly all of the other landlords who had taken in immigrant families only to lose them again within a very short time, SOUTHWELL .... treated his settlers with equanimity. With the British government stalling as regards funding, he wasn't afraid to use his own resources when it came to solidifying a Palatine existence. He assigned each family approximately eight acres of land, and at rents much lower than those demanded of local tenants ... When it came the planting and harvesting of potatoes the Palatines were ahead of their time, as they were the first agriculturists to use the horse and plough in the process, leaving the native Irish entirely dependent on the spade and shovel. The Palatines were also highly skilled in apple culture and were expert cider producers ...During the harsh famine days, the Palatines, due to their superior skill, methods in working the land and raising livestock, escaped the worst ravages of the great hunger and were known to help their less well off neighbours." Read about the eventual dispersal of several families away from Rathkeale circa 1730-40s and on to other landlord estates in Co. Limerick and to a lesser degree, Kerry and Tipperary, and emigration to the New World, etc., after SOUTHWELL's death. Learn more about changes in culture the 19th century brought with it - lessening of enmities existing between German and Gael, acquisition of English and other languages, lessening of the earlier more or less taboo against intermarriage. Per article -- "P. W. JOYCE, the famous historian and collector of Irish music and song was actually brought up in the Palatine village of Glenosheen in South Limerick, and anything he had to say of his German neighbours was always positive." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 01:19:20 -0700 From: "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> Subject: [IRELAND] German Palatines - Strong Association with Limerick from 1709 To: <IRELAND-L@rootsweb.com> SNIPPET: A wall plaque, Palatine Centre, Rathkeale Co. Limerick reads "Irish Palatine Heritage Center (Das Irisch-Pfalzische Museum), in 1709 several hundred families of German origin settled in Ireland. Known as the Palatines, they established roots mainly in the Rathkeale area of County Limerick." A foreign group with particularly strong association with Limerick from 1709, are the refugees from the German Palatinate who were settled mostly around Rathkeale in the centre of Limerick, but also near Kilfinane in the southeast. Just like their Irish neighbours, some Palatines adapted to English phonetically while others adopted an existing English name. Unless family tradition has preserved the origin of the name in particular families, it can be very hard to realise that one belongs to this community. Not only does the German form of the names direct one's attention towards Germany; the English guise in which many of them appear hides their origin even further. (Be sure and consult an Irish surname book for the ones you are researching, as surnames may have more than one origin.) Palatine names include: Altheimer (Altimes, Alton) Barkman (Bateman) Becker (Baker) Benner Boin, Bohea (Bowen) Bubenheuser (Bovenizer) Cornelius (Corneille) Daub (Doupe, etc.) Dolmetsch (Dolmage, Delmege) Fischel (Fizzell) Glaser (Glazier) Heck Imberger (Embury) Jung (Young) Koch (Cooke) Krebs (Crips) Lang (Long) Lieger (Legear, etc.) Lohs (Lowe) Lorentz (Laurence) Meyer (Myers) Mueller (Miller) Pfeiffer (Piper) Ruckel (Ruttle) Ruebel, Rappell (Rapple) Scheir, Scheuer (Shire) Schmidt (Smith) Schumacher (Shoemaker) Schweitzer (Switzer) Sohn (St. John) Stieb (Steep) Teskey von Sperling (Sparling) -- "Irish Roots" magazine, pub. Cork ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 01:57:46 -0700 From: "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> Subject: [IRELAND] Peter YOUNG -- History/Palatine Families To: <IrelandGenWeb-L@rootsweb.com> Cc: IRELAND-L@rootsweb.com PALATINES: Prior to 1871, what is now Germany consisted of a number of separate states such as Wurttemberg, Prussia, Bavaria, etc., whose boundaries changed frequently as a result of war and other causes. The Palatinate was one of these states, and was located along the Rhine, roughly corresponding to the modern German state of Rhineland-Pfalz. In 1709 several hundred Palatine families settled in Ireland. A combination of economic hardship caused by war and a severe winter led to the exodus. Queen Anne received them in England and sent some to Ireland to the estates of sympathetic Protestant landlords. They established roots, mainly in the Rathkeale area of County Limerick, Ireland, where about 1,200 of them settled on the estate of Thomas Southwell. Other colonies were set up in Old Ross and Gorey, County Wexford and in Counties Cork and Dublin. Thought the Limerick Palatines spread out to other areas, particularly north Kerry and Tipperary, Rathkeale remained an important focal point. At Killaheen the site of the old Wesleyan Chapel where the Palatines worshipped may be seen today, also some of the old Palatine houses. A most interesting item is an old Palatine well. It consists of a trench cut into the ground deeper than the water table. The sides and the top are lined with stone and 18 stone steps lead down the clear cold water. Several such wells are to be found in the locality but some have been partly filled in for safety purposes. At Courtmatrix, the earliest of the original colonies, the present occupiers of a house built in the Palatine style - long and low - which once longed to the Teskey family can be found with the interior which has been kept as close to its original condition as a modern lifestyle will permit. Behind the old Teskey home a carved stone cider press is still in position under an old tree, an interesting validation of the fact that the Palatines brought stone-cutting and winemaking skills with them from Germany. The third of the parent colonies, Ballingrane, is the place where the most famous Irish Palatines lived. Barbara Heck and Philip Embury were the founders of Methodism in the USA, a denomination which now has a following of several million. Barbara Heck's old home is (1996) occupied by the family of Walter Ruttle, a Palatine descendant and a member of the Irish Palatine Association. Nearby can be found a pear tree under which John Wesley used to preach and a plaque marking the site of Philip Embury's home, long since demolished. A visit to Embury and Heck memorial church contains a horn blown by the burgermeister or Palatine leader to summon general meetings in the early days of the colony. Castle Matrix is the home of Thomas Southwell, the landlord who brought the Palatines to Limerick. This ancient Fitzgerald castle has been completely restored and is occupied by the O'Driscoll family. Some of the German-speaking people that came to North America did not come directly. Some Palatines spent time (from a few months to a few generations) in other countries, including Ireland. Palatine families living in the Rathkeale area circa 1720 included: Altimes/Alton, Baker, Barkman/Bartman, Barraban, Benner, Bickerin, Bonus, Bovenizer, Bowen, Bower, Bredhour, Brough, Cave, Cole, Cooke, Corneille, Cripps, Cronsberry, Delmege, Doupe, Embury, Everett, Filme, Fitzelle, Folker, Grouse, Guier, Hartwick, Heavenor, Heck, Hibler, Hifle, Hoffman, Hoopf, Hoost, Laurence, Legear, Lodwick/Ludwig, Lowe, Lower, Lowes, Mick, Miller, Modler, Neazor, Piper, Poff, Richardt, Rodenbecker, Ruttle, Rynard, Ryner, Schmidt/Smyth, Shallas, Sheafer, Shearman, Shimmel, Shire/Shier, Shoemaker, Shoneweiss, Shouldice, Siebert, Singer, Smeltzer, Sparlng/Sparling, St. John, Steevell, Steepe, Stork/Stark, Stroud, Switzer, Teskey, Tettler/Detlor, Ushelbaugh, Young and Zigler. Palatine families in the rest of Ireland circa 1720 included: Altimus/Altimes, Ashbagh, Baker/Becker, Barklotine, Beever, Berg/Berge, Berner/Bearney, Bisherne, Boller, Crouse, Crow/Crowe, Fock/Fought, Fugenacht, Glazier/Gleasure, Golliday, Green, Hartwick/ Hartrick, Hess, Hoffman, Holbach, Hornick/Horn, Jacobus/Jacob, Jekyll/Jeakle, Johan, Kirkhover, Klein/Kline, Konig/Koning, Kough/Cooke, Lambert, Long, Ludolf/Ludolt, Meyer/Myers, Miller, Nichburne, Paul, Poole, Rapple, Real/Ruhl, Reessnagh/Rufenacht, Reuling, Rhinehart, Richardt/Richard, Rosine/Rosen, Ross/Rose, Ryling, Schmidt/Smyth, Schultz/Sultz, Sheafer, Snitzerling, Staler, Steeble, Stengel/Stingill, Strosser, Swartz, Tyse/Twiss, Walter/Weiss, Wise, Wentz, Wolf, Writer/Rieter, and Young. There is an Irish Palatine Heritage Centre in Rathkeale, (near Limerick and Adare),Co. Limerick, with extensive displays of artifacts, photographs, etc. associated with the Palatine families.

Thanks for the memories, Ray. Although my Massachusetts, dairy-farm father grew potaotes in the 60's and 70's, and probably before I was born, he was more modern than that. But, you brought me back to when I had to grade potatoes from the conveyor as they were dug up with the machine. It was quick work, only to be slowed by sticking your hand onto a rotted potato, which was mush and stunk to high heaven! Eeeewww. ~Patsy~ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Marshall" <raymarsh@mninter.net> To: "Kerry List" <IRL-Kerry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:21 PM Subject: [IRL-KERRY] FW: The Spud and 'other famines' > > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 08:41:59 -0600 > From: "jj.carroll" <jj.carroll@comcast.net> > Subject: [IRELAND] The SPUD! > To: <ireland@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <003001c7e7ef$42b13c20$0b00a8c0@workstation2> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > More from McSorley's book; this time "THE SPUD." > > > > "Potatoes were the main food supply for man and beast [and remained so > well > into the 1900s]. The hard work began when 'father' decided to have the > best > potatoes hand picked and put in bags. These were called 'seed potatoes'. > Bags containing the seed were taken into the comfort of the kitchen, where > helpers at the cutting stood like nurses in the theatre. Full 'butts' of > cuts had to be left outside in a shed. Butts of rejects were washed and > put > in a big boiler.[and] were boiled and fed to the pigs. Little sharp > knives > were bandaged with a piece of cotton rag, just below the handle, to > protect > the forefinger from pressure when cutting. > > > > "The attendants washed and cleaned the dust from off the floor after each > cutting session. Cutting could last up to two or three weeks. > [Attendants, > bandages - what the heck? Patricia McSorely was trained as a nurse!] > > > > "Drills were opened with a horse plough and farmyard manure was spread > evenly in each drill. Little mounds of manure had been dropped at > intervals > up to the drills by the men and the family scattered these using graips. > > > > "The back breaking job of dropping the potatoes followed. Each 'cut' had > to > be dropped eye side up and freshly cut side facing downwards and evenly > spaced. This was important as father followed the droppers with his > bucket > of bone manure. With his hand he spread a fine covering of this > artificial > manure on top of the cuts. Should he find a cut turned the wrong way up, > the > culprit was reprimanded because the bone manure could burn the upturned > spud. > > > > "Drills were closed and you anxiously awaited the growth of the new > potatoes, which brought a flourishing crop of unwanted weeds. The > children > had to weed these, up one drill and down the next, acre after acre. The > top > of each drill had to be lowered, thus aiding the young shoot. This was > done > using a hoe and was called 'Topping the Drills'. > > > > "Before spraying time, a crop of turnips, carrots, mangols and cabbage had > to be thinned and kept free of weeds. At spaying time a big wooden > 'Porter > Barrel" was filled with water and mixed with correct proportions of blue > stone and washing soda; 7 lbs. blue stone and 9 lbs. washing soda for the > 40 > gallon barrel. This mixture was carried to the farmer by the children. > He > carried a sprayer on his back and it held about four gallons. > > > > "Potato gathering 'holidays' came in October, as children were needed to > do > the hard work of gathering the crop. [The drills} were ploughed open and > the lovely new potatoes would roll out and were gathered. They were > stored > in big clay pits scattered throughout the field and well covered with > rushes > and soil to protect them from frost. > > > > "During the winter months, big boilers were filled with potatoes, hand > picked from the pit, washed and boiled. The fire under the boiler had to > be > replenished all the time and those who weren't helping at the pits were > off > in the fields finding brosnaigh, or cutting branches with a cross cut saw. > Brosnaigh was the dead sticks lying around the hedges." > > > > Regards, > Jim Carroll > >

Thanks Ray: Now I can understand why the Sweeney's adopted farming as a "last resort" when the Galloglass business went bust. Love, Jack Sweeney in bright and pleasant Palmer, Pennsylvania.

Message: 1 Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 08:41:59 -0600 From: "jj.carroll" <jj.carroll@comcast.net> Subject: [IRELAND] The SPUD! To: <ireland@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <003001c7e7ef$42b13c20$0b00a8c0@workstation2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" More from McSorley's book; this time "THE SPUD." "Potatoes were the main food supply for man and beast [and remained so well into the 1900s]. The hard work began when 'father' decided to have the best potatoes hand picked and put in bags. These were called 'seed potatoes'. Bags containing the seed were taken into the comfort of the kitchen, where helpers at the cutting stood like nurses in the theatre. Full 'butts' of cuts had to be left outside in a shed. Butts of rejects were washed and put in a big boiler.[and] were boiled and fed to the pigs. Little sharp knives were bandaged with a piece of cotton rag, just below the handle, to protect the forefinger from pressure when cutting. "The attendants washed and cleaned the dust from off the floor after each cutting session. Cutting could last up to two or three weeks. [Attendants, bandages - what the heck? Patricia McSorely was trained as a nurse!] "Drills were opened with a horse plough and farmyard manure was spread evenly in each drill. Little mounds of manure had been dropped at intervals up to the drills by the men and the family scattered these using graips. "The back breaking job of dropping the potatoes followed. Each 'cut' had to be dropped eye side up and freshly cut side facing downwards and evenly spaced. This was important as father followed the droppers with his bucket of bone manure. With his hand he spread a fine covering of this artificial manure on top of the cuts. Should he find a cut turned the wrong way up, the culprit was reprimanded because the bone manure could burn the upturned spud. "Drills were closed and you anxiously awaited the growth of the new potatoes, which brought a flourishing crop of unwanted weeds. The children had to weed these, up one drill and down the next, acre after acre. The top of each drill had to be lowered, thus aiding the young shoot. This was done using a hoe and was called 'Topping the Drills'. "Before spraying time, a crop of turnips, carrots, mangols and cabbage had to be thinned and kept free of weeds. At spaying time a big wooden 'Porter Barrel" was filled with water and mixed with correct proportions of blue stone and washing soda; 7 lbs. blue stone and 9 lbs. washing soda for the 40 gallon barrel. This mixture was carried to the farmer by the children. He carried a sprayer on his back and it held about four gallons. "Potato gathering 'holidays' came in October, as children were needed to do the hard work of gathering the crop. [The drills} were ploughed open and the lovely new potatoes would roll out and were gathered. They were stored in big clay pits scattered throughout the field and well covered with rushes and soil to protect them from frost. "During the winter months, big boilers were filled with potatoes, hand picked from the pit, washed and boiled. The fire under the boiler had to be replenished all the time and those who weren't helping at the pits were off in the fields finding brosnaigh, or cutting branches with a cross cut saw. Brosnaigh was the dead sticks lying around the hedges." Regards, Jim Carroll ----- Original Message ----- From: "jj.carroll" <jj.carroll@comcast.net> To: <ireland@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 10:41 AM Subject: [IRELAND] The SPUD! > More from McSorley's book; this time "THE SPUD." > > > > "Potatoes were the main food supply for man and beast [and remained so > well into the 1900s]. The hard work began when 'father' decided to have > the best potatoes hand picked and put in bags. These were called 'seed > potatoes'. Bags containing the seed were taken into the comfort of the > kitchen, where helpers at the cutting stood like nurses in the theatre. > Full 'butts' of cuts had to be left outside in a shed. Butts of rejects > were washed and put in a big boiler.[and] were boiled and fed to the pigs. > Little sharp knives were bandaged with a piece of cotton rag, just below > the handle, to protect the forefinger from pressure when cutting. > > > > "The attendants washed and cleaned the dust from off the floor after each > cutting session. Cutting could last up to two or three weeks. > [Attendants, bandages - what the heck? Patricia McSorely was trained as a > nurse!] > > > > "Drills were opened with a horse plough and farmyard manure was spread > evenly in each drill. Little mounds of manure had been dropped at > intervals up to the drills by the men and the family scattered these using > graips. > > > > "The back breaking job of dropping the potatoes followed. Each 'cut' had > to be dropped eye side up and freshly cut side facing downwards and evenly > spaced. This was important as father followed the droppers with his > bucket of bone manure. With his hand he spread a fine covering of this > artificial manure on top of the cuts. Should he find a cut turned the > wrong way up, the culprit was reprimanded because the bone manure could > burn the upturned spud. > > > > "Drills were closed and you anxiously awaited the growth of the new > potatoes, which brought a flourishing crop of unwanted weeds. The > children had to weed these, up one drill and down the next, acre after > acre. The top of each drill had to be lowered, thus aiding the young > shoot. This was done using a hoe and was called 'Topping the Drills'. > > > > "Before spraying time, a crop of turnips, carrots, mangols and cabbage had > to be thinned and kept free of weeds. At spaying time a big wooden > 'Porter Barrel" was filled with water and mixed with correct proportions > of blue stone and washing soda; 7 lbs. blue stone and 9 lbs. washing soda > for the 40 gallon barrel. This mixture was carried to the farmer by the > children. He carried a sprayer on his back and it held about four > gallons. > > > > "Potato gathering 'holidays' came in October, as children were needed to > do the hard work of gathering the crop. [The drills} were ploughed open > and the lovely new potatoes would roll out and were gathered. They were > stored in big clay pits scattered throughout the field and well covered > with rushes and soil to protect them from frost. > > > > "During the winter months, big boilers were filled with potatoes, hand > picked from the pit, washed and boiled. The fire under the boiler had to > be replenished all the time and those who weren't helping at the pits were > off in the fields finding brosnaigh, or cutting branches with a cross cut > saw. Brosnaigh was the dead sticks lying around the hedges." > > > > Regards, > Jim Carroll > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:27:15 -0700 From: "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> Subject: [IRELAND] Discussion of Famine To: <IRELAND-L@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <056301c7e7fd$f72f1ab0$4d1ecac6@jean> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original SNIPPET: "Famine has afflicted societies since the beginning of history," per Margaret CRAWFORD, Senior Research Fellow, Centre for Social Research, Queen's University, Belfast, and editor of "Famine: The Irish Experience 900-1900" (pub 1989): "It may be defined as a persistent failure in food supplies over a prolonged period. It is something experienced by society, whereas starvation is something that affects individuals. During famines more people are likely to die of famine-related diseases than from starvation. The causes are complex. Adverse weather conditions (drought, excessive rain, intense cold) at crucial times, effects of war (scorched earth policies, the provisioning of armies, disruption of trade), pestilence and disease: all these individually or in combination may to be blame. Famine is generally perceived as the result of a failure of food supplies, typically arising from the Malthusian pressure of population on resources. However, some analysts, following the Indian economist Amartya Sen, argue that famine is less commonly caused by an absolute shortage of food than by the lack of 'entitlement' - that is, the existence of large numbers of persons who do not possess the means either of producing food or of acquiring it through purchase or through transfer payments sanctioned by the state or by custom. Famine thus becomes a product of political and social structures, rather than of neutral economic forces. In Ireland over a period of six centuries from 1300 to 1900 there were up to 30 episodes of severe famine. Between 1290 and 1400 there were around a dozen, mostly clustering in the decades before and including the Great European Famine of 1315-17. Another dozen or so occurred between 1500 and 1750. After 1750 there were several periods of acute regional shortages, culminating in the Great Famine of 1845-9. The famines experienced in Ireland over the centuries illustrate their nature both as event and structure. Bad weather in 1294-6 and 1308-10, for example, damaged grain crops, resulting in many deaths. In 1315-17 wet weather produced devastating famine throughout Europe, exacerbated in the Irish case by Edward BRUCE's scorched earth policy. Heavy rains destroyed crops in 1330-1 and the price of wheat and oats rose manyfold. A century later in 1433 a severe famine led to 'the summer of slight acquaintance.' In 1504-5 continual rain and storms ruined crops, and cattle disease decimated livestock. The 17th century was also heralded by bad weather, famine, and disease. The rising of 1641 ravaged crops and precipitated famine. Two famines in the 18th century, 1728-9 and 1740-1, caused great suffering. The famine of 1740 is noteworthy as the first potato crisis; in terms of mortality rates, it may have been greater than the Great Famine of 1845-9. The latter earns the sobriquet because it was the last and best remembered. But for 'this great calamity,' it is doubtful that Ireland would be regarded as more famine-prone than other European countries."

Hi List Many thanks for the instant replies I had regarding the above name. Kathleen Fitzgerald Joe and Dick and Jean This is a great list. I am now off to Mass and will pray for all the Gloster descendants. Greeting from a beautiful spring like day down under Marie

Hi List Persistence and patience has finally paid off. I have been searching for any info on my greatgrandmother ELLEN GLOSTER daughter of THOMAS AND NORAH GLOSTER ( NEE KENNEDY) since the year 2000. Just yesterday my cousin struck gold on Ancestry.com and found details of ELLEN . and her parents. THOMAS AND NORAH. THOMAS GLOSTER was the son of MATHEW born Murreach Dingle in 1791 and he married JOAN (nee GARVEY) in Dunquin 1816. They had children MY THOMAS 1817 CATHERINE 1818 MARY 1821 JAMES 1822 JOHN 1824 PATRICK 1827 married JOHANNA HANNIFIN MARY 1829 MAURICE MATHEW 1831 married SIOBHAN MURPHY in 1853 and had a daughter Bridget. I believe way back in 2001 I heard from a descendant KATHLEEN FITZGERALD in America At that stage we couldn’t see a connection.. Have emailed her to-day but it was returned to me. Maybe she has changed her address or left the list.!! Other names from MATHEWS CHILDRENS MARRIAGES ARE AS FOLLOWS WILLIAM O’NEIL JAMES HURLEY MAURICE LEAGH JOHANNA DALY CATHERINE LYNCH If any list members have any connections to these names I would love to hear from you,. I intend visiting Ireland next year to visit the places in Kerry where Ellen and her parents came from Thanking you all in anticipation of a reply Greetings from down under Marie Walker

Hi List Wonderful news. At long last

Marie- My 2nd great grandfather was Patrick KENNEDY (b. 1816, Dingle Parish); I think, but can't verify that his father was Peter (from Maumanorig, according to the Tithes and Griffith's Valuation). Patrick married Bridget FLAHERTY, dau. of Timothy FLAHERTY and Mary DALY. Timothy and Mary lived in Maumanorig, Marhin (just north of Ventry and a few miles south of Murreach), but we suspect that Mary DALY was from Dunquin. My FLAHERTYs intermarried with the FITZGERALDs, who intermarried with the GARVEYs, and Joan GARVEY married Mathew GLOSTER, as you know. Whew! I have forwarded your post to Kathleen Fitzgerald,with whom I have been in contact for several months. I expect she will be in touch with you. If you contact me off list we can further explore our possible connection.

Message: 6 Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 23:05:00 -0700 From: "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> Subject: [IRELAND] Englishman Richard LOVETT's Travels (1888) to The Skelligs, Off Coast of Kerry -- Lemon Rock To: <IRELAND-L@rootsweb.com> SNIPPET: The notes of enthusiastic Victorian traveler to Ireland, Richard LOVETT were published in 1888 by The Religious Tract Society. Here are his impressions as he and his hired crew head for the The Skelligs, off the coast of Kerry: "We rowed away from the tiny pier at Port Magee about 10 a.m., and were soon at the mouth of the inlet upon which Port Magee is situated. There was a slight breeze from the north-east, the sun was shining, the sea had a steel-blue tint, the sky was clear, and as we drew near the mouth of the inlet the first taste of what was before us came. A broken ledge of rocks protects the mouth of the harbour. Within the sea was also calm, but upon the ledge the Atlantic was breaking with a low, thunderous roar, which would not have been pleasing had not the wild foam looked so dazzling white in the sunshine, and so fascinated the eye with its ever-varying forms of beauty, that delight in the scene quite overpowered the nervous imagination of what might happen should one of those great rollers send our light boat against any of the thousand ugly pointed rocks so uncannily close to our side. A few minutes' hard rowing, and were out upon the main. Turning a bold headland, we got our first view of the islets for which were making. Away out on the ocean, sharply defined against the horizon, were two huge masses or rock, and most beautiful did they appear. Too far away to exhibit any of their inequities of outline, they rose up from the sea like pyramids, and enshrouded in an exquisite blue haze, they appeared like twin sapphires. Seen from the low elevation of the boat, lying peacefully on the far horizon, shining forth in their sapphire beauty, one could easy feel and appreciate how the Irish along this coast have acquired and cling to the belief that westwards are the Islands of the Blest, the land of plenty and of peace. As the land receded we began to get a superb view of the coast, and a cruel coast it is. Successively Bray Head, Puffin Head, Bolus Head, the Great Blasquets, and many other headland and islet, came into view. The cliffs in may parts rise from three to six hundred feet, in some cases sheer from the water. But weird and fantastic in form as they often are, wherever the eye lights one impression is received, that of eternal strength. There is nothing of the curious frayed appearance presented by the horizontal strata of the cliffs further north. These rise up boldly, uncompromisingly, and you feel as you look upon them that here is a solidity and a strength upon which even the Atlantic in it seasons of wildest fury can make no impression. It is in vain that his hugest billows dash against these tremendous barriers. In the conflict, ceaseless, yet fruitless, all softness has disappeared. They present a stern grey front, and in their quiet yet awe-inspiring fixity they seem to say 'Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further, and here shall thy proud waves be stayed.' We row on, and for two or three miles seem to be making little or no headway. But gradually the cliffs of the mainland recede, and we draw near to the first of the group, that known as the Lemon Rock. This is worn into a ragged outline by the ceaseless action of the water, and as we pass it so far way that the roar of the surge is softened by the distance, we can see the spray shooting up in columns of the purest white. It seems to take a long while, our crew rowing hard all the time, to get beyond the Lemon Rock. But at least it is left upon our port quarter, and we have now done the larger half of our outward journey. We slowly cross the stretch of two or three miles which separate the Lemon Rock from the Little Skellig. One feels afresh the insignificance of man in the presence of the great forces of nature. The sun has now gone behind the clouds, the sea has changed to a cold grey, the waves have risen a little, the boat seems small and frail, the ocean seems wide and mighty. There is no vessel within two or three miles of us, and only five or six visible in the whole circuit of our horizon. The strongest swimmer, in case of need, could hardly hope to reach either the Skelligs or the shore. But a glance at the trim craft as she steadily surmounts wave after wave, a look at the intelligent faces and sturdy arms of the rowers as they cheerily urge on the boat, reassures us, and we banish all nervous thoughts and give ourselves up to thorough enjoyment of an hour not likely to recur in a lifetime."

David, I may have some information on your O'Connor line in Bangor, ....My GF, John Patrick Neligan, arrived in Bangor in 1894....where many cousins lived and worked and many close Connor, O'Connors also.......since his Mother was a Connors from Dingle......my GGM- I am headed to Bangor next month for a Maine Historical Conference.... I am, Carolanne~

Hi All I wonder if any of you have had any experience searching estate records in the National Library. Let me explain the story so far:- My gg grandfather is in the Griffiths as Edmond Slattery of Sackville Ardfert. In the 1901 census, two of his sons Michael and Maurice are farmers in Abbeydorney and Kilflyn. There are no Slatteries of that line in Sackville in 1901 In the 1911 census his sons are still in Abbeydorney and Kilflyn and now one of Edmond's grandsons in back in Sackville Family lore says that Edmond was evicted from the land in Sackville by the landlord William Talbot-Crosbie and sometime later (between 1901 and 1911) the land was given back to the family by William Talbot Crosbie's son. By that time Edmond was dead and the land went to one of Michael's sons. Of course this story may just be a family story but.. I have discovered that some estate records for the Talbot-Crosbies are in the National Library and I will be in Dublin next month and I would like to know whether I am likely to find anything about tenants such as the Slatteries in the estate records. Thanks Anne in cold and wet Sydney Researching\ Slattery in Ardfert, Abbeydorney and Kilflyn. O'Donnell of Slieve and Glanmore O'Connell of Deerpark Listowel Gaughan, Loftus and Reilly and Noone of Gladree, Mayo

Hello! My O'Connor ancestors left Co. Kerry (town unknown) in the 1850s and next appeared in Bangor, Maine, probably via Nova Scotia. Any advice on researching ship/port information, such as the likely Port of departure and of arrival, and where those records might be found? Thanks David in Virginia -----Original Message----- From: irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-kerry-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of irl-kerry-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:04 AM To: irl-kerry@rootsweb.com Subject: IRL-KERRY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 231 Today's Topics: 1. Need Bishop's email address (PMcH532@aol.com) 2. Re: Need Bishop's email address (PMcH532@aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 07:33:24 EDT From: PMcH532@aol.com Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Need Bishop's email address To: IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <c96.16dd5853.33fd7904@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Good morning! I'm trying to email the Bishop of Kerry for permission to search church records in Knocknagoshel and Currow but the email keeps being bounced back to me as undeliverable. The email address provided by the Diocese of Kerry website is _bishopshouse@eircon.net_ (mailto:bishopshouse@eircon.net) . It doesn't work and I'm leaving in about two weeks so time is of the essence. Does anyone have another email address I can try? Thanks. Pat in sunny, breezy and beautiful South Florida ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:06:18 EDT From: PMcH532@aol.com Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Need Bishop's email address To: mmulpeter@hotmail.com, IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <bf2.1d570ac1.33fd80ba@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Thanks, Maura. That's was a good catch. What a silly mistake I made. One letter makes all the difference in the world. Now I'm off to send my email to the Bishop. Pat Happy again in South Florida ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ To contact the IRL-KERRY list administrator, send an email to IRL-KERRY-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the IRL-KERRY mailing list, send an email to IRL-KERRY@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-KERRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of IRL-KERRY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 231 *****************************************

Thanks, Maura. That's was a good catch. What a silly mistake I made. One letter makes all the difference in the world. Now I'm off to send my email to the Bishop. Pat Happy again in South Florida ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Good morning! I'm trying to email the Bishop of Kerry for permission to search church records in Knocknagoshel and Currow but the email keeps being bounced back to me as undeliverable. The email address provided by the Diocese of Kerry website is _bishopshouse@eircon.net_ (mailto:bishopshouse@eircon.net) . It doesn't work and I'm leaving in about two weeks so time is of the essence. Does anyone have another email address I can try? Thanks. Pat in sunny, breezy and beautiful South Florida ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Hi Trish: I'm here, just had some nourishment, about to visit the TV [telly] and enjoy an after dinner drink of cheap, light American beer while smoking a fag [tobacco]. Nothing new about "my" Sweeney's, still can't get any info about the generation prior to my Grands, e.g. grandfather, -mother, -aunt, -uncle. But, I do have decent health and Faith that someday a NEW first cousin will show up. One did 2 years ago, and, in New Jersey of all places. Love, Jack Sweeney, in chilly, darkish, rainy Palmer, Pennsylvania.

Trish There has been a few messages, but it is slow here now. Liz ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour