This may appear twice....if it does you are seeing double only because I forgot( senior moment) how to send a message...if it only appears once then my memory is only half as bad as I thought.... Hello Patricia, Welcome to the O'Connor Twilight Zone and thanks for keeping my message alive.......it's only my opinion but I'd suggest that the first thing to do would be to post what you know giving as much specific information as possible. There are a number of respondents on this list who hail from Massachusetts and who might help. I don't have the specifics at hand but I remember a very recent posting from a Karen(?) Trearchis regarding a genealogy society in the Merrimack Valley where Lawrence and Haverhill are located. Perhaps someone from that group could help regarding those local communities.... There is also a free index to the Mass. Archives records which might help to pinpoint your particular families. I don't have the link in front of me as I write this but if you search the Commonwealth of Massachusetts( Office of the Secretary of State) you should be able to find that link. Those records pertain to birth, marriage and death records from 1841-1910. If you want to check the actual images for that timeframe, you can either visit the Mass. Archives which is on the campus of UMass Boston or possibly purchase a membership to the NEHGS. However, if you post your interests some helpful souls who already have a subscription(myself included) may help to narrow the search. Just so that you'll know, records from the present day back to 1916 are in two places that I know of: 1. The specific city or town AND the Mass. Bureau of Vital Stats which is on Mt. Vernon street in Dorchester, MA. The primary difference between the two is that the state office has indices in 5 year increments which you can personally peruse to help you to narrow your search. Hours are limited though. Records between 1915 and 1841 are located at the Mass. Archives and also at the local communities. There again the difference is that the state office has the indices to help you narrow the search. I do hail from Massachusetts so if you'd like to contact me directly, I'd be happy to provide what information I can to help you. Ed O'Connor

Hello Patricia, Welcome to the O'Connor Twilight Zone and thanks for keeping my message alive.......it's only my opinion but I'd suggest that the first thing to do would be to post what you know giving as much specific information as possible. There are a number of respondents on this list who hail from Massachusetts and who might help. I don't have the specifics at hand but I remember a very recent posting from a Karen(?) Trearchis regarding a genealogy society in the Merrimack Valley where Lawrence and Haverhill are located. Perhaps someone from that group could help regarding those local communities.... There is also a free index to the Mass. Archives records which might help to pinpoint your particular families. I don't have the link in front of me as I write this but if you search the Commonwealth of Massachusetts( Office of the Secretary of State) you should be able to find that link. Those records pertain to birth, marriage and death records from 1841-1910. If you want to check the actual images for that timeframe, you can either visit the Mass. Archives which is on the campus of UMass Boston or possibly purchase a membership to the NEHGS. However, if you post your interests some helpful souls who already have a subscription(myself included) may help to narrow the search. Just so that you'll know, records from the present day back to 1916 are in two places that I know of: 1. The specific city or town AND the Mass. Bureau of Vital Stats which is on Mt. Vernon street in Dorchester, MA. The primary difference between the two is that the state office has indices in 5 year increments which you can personally peruse to help you to narrow your search. Hours are limited though. Records between 1915 and 1841 are located at the Mass. Archives and also at the local communities. There again the difference is that the state office has the indices to help you narrow the search. I do hail from Massachusetts so if you'd like to contact me directly, I'd be happy to provide what information I can to help you. Ed O'Connor

Everyone can give you suggestions on this site - but how many are going to help you is anyone's guess. If you have a death date for your Grandfather - you should be able to get an address from Google as to where to send for a death certificate in Waterbury, ct. No need to go there. I would keep Ancestry - that is a gold mine. At least in my opinion. I have had it for five or six years now and have no idea what I would do without it. You might want to consider a subscription to Newspaper Archives. I found a great deal of information on my Grandfather and GrGrandfather (both Undertakers) in Hartford and their obituary included a picture of them. Have you ever researched the Godfrey Memorial Library in Middletown, Ct. A subscription to that can vary in price according to the type subscription you want. I have the Gold (full) membership which runs me $125.00 per year. I believe it starts at $30.00 or 35.00 for lesser memberships. I have a friend named Coakley , whose parents came from county Cork. He made a few trips back to Ireland to visit his family. I know he had a relative in Mass area, I wonder if there could be a connection? Liz in not so sunny Florida In a message dated 9/25/2010 2:05:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: I have a question: I have read and copied many of the very good suggestions on this website. But now, I have to figure out what is the best method of finding my relatives...the one's I am most interested in are in Lawrence, MA, the Coakleys and the O'Connors, etc...or Haverhill, MA...should I join the NEGHs for $75 and work that part of the family; should I keep my Ancestry subscription...should I just go out and hire a genealogist at $20 per hour...I never seem able to get to Waterbury, CT (to investigate my grandfather's death) or Lawrence, MA, and maybe that would be the best method...I really want to find the Coakleys from Castlegregory (is there another name for that town in "Irish") and the Dennehy's, from Illancaum who are said to be "elusive." My mind boggles at the maps and the church registrations and the many versions of the names. How would you recommend I find these folks...I have the basic information On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 4:58 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > I am trying to track down one of my O'Connor lines which is kind of like > looking for the proverbial needle in the proverbial haystack. >  > What I think I know is that one set of my great great grandparents were > Martin Connor/O'Connor and Mary Flahiff/Flahive/Flehive. If I'm correct, > their marriage was recorded in Castlegregory on February 5, 1854. > Witnesses > were Patrick Commane and Ellen Fitzgerald. >  > The family was from Cahir/Caher Castlegregory. With the records found > online, it's possible that Mary Flahiff was the daughter of John Flahive > and > Johanna O'Donnell OR John Flahive and Margaret Trant. There are two > baptisms > one in 1833 and the other in 1836 either of which may pertain to my great > great grandmother. >  > Martin and Mary had the following children: Honora(1854), > Mary(1856),Mary(1857), > Cornelius(1858),Michael(1861),Michael(1862),Catherine(1865) and > Martin(1867). If I'm correct, Catherine is(was?) my great grandmother. > She > and her brother Martin emigrated to western Massachusetts in the 1880's. >  > I'm trying to determine the fate of the other siblings and of Martin and > Mary. It's most likely that the earliest Mary and Michael died in > infancy, > hence the others of the same name. >  > Family lore has it that a part of the family emigrated to upper NY state > and > still another emigrated to New Zealand. To date, I cannot confirm either > of > those situations. >  > I've looked at the online records and cannot find an apparent marriage > for > any of the siblings. >  > So it's Honora, Michael, Mary and Cornelius whom I am seeking plus any > death > record regarding Martin and Mary Flahiff Connor/O'Connor. >  > I did check the online 1901 census records for Caher and there was no > Connor/O'Connor listed. > >  > Any and all suggestions are welcome. >  > Ed O'Connor > Hudson,MA formerly of Holyoke > _______________ > --------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message. > > To subscribe to the Digest version of the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'subscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message. > > To visit the County Kerry Research and Resources Page go to: > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message _______________ --------------- Policies of the IRL-Kerry List: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/mailing.html To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message. To subscribe to the Digest version of the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'subscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message. To visit the County Kerry Research and Resources Page go to: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ Share your stuff! If you transcribed research data, share it with the Irish genealogy community. Contribute it to the Kerry website to reach a wide audience. Contact Ann Hammer, data maintenance. Her contact info is at http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ contrib.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Griffiths Valuation ( property census) of 1850 shows Michael Colclough ( pronounced as Coakley, in Ireland ) occupying a house and land in the Townland of ; Tullaree ( In Gaelic, the small hill of the heather or possibly of a king ) In the immediate adjacent Townland of ..Illauncaum ( in Gaelic: the bent-shape island, but which was not in fact an island ) James Dennehy and Edward Dennehy are each recorded as house and land occupiers. Dec...

Pat, If you want to focus on MA people, then the NEHGS is far more valuable than Ancestry - especially for Irish. Don'tneglect the free familysearch.org site and the free online Catholic Kerry records. Tell me more about your elusive Dennehy. I have a Dennehy girl marrried to an O'Connor inHopkinton MA. If you know of any DENNEHY male, then what is really worth it is the Framilytree DNA test. Michael DANAHY http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/d/a/n/Michael-C-Danahy/index.html RESEARCHING IN MA (Hopkinton), IRE, ENG ALDRICH http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~aldrichnaa/ (one m SMITH, earlier ones m CASAVANT, COMEE, http://www.familyorigins.com/users/e/v/a/Jeanne-C-Evans LOVELL, PRAY, PRENTICE, RAWSON, SEALD, THAYER); http://members.xoom.com/jaldrich/Lines/Michael.htm Aldrich Family biographies, go to http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/FamilyAssociation/AldrichBios or go to http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~aldrich/ CASAVANT (who m MORAN); CURRAN (who m DANAHY) DANAHY (b. in Hopkinton and who m LENAN, siblings m. TOLAN, JOHNSON, O'CONNOR) LENAN (who m O"BRIEN); SMITH (who m CASEY); PRENTICE (who m ALDRICH) http://www.prenticenet.com/roots/prentice/robert/#R4 RAWSON (one m ALLEN, later one TORREY) http://www.rawsonfamilyassoc.org/ THAYER (Thomas m WHEELER, son Ferdinando m HAYWARD); http://thayerfamilies.com/thomas-line.htm

Patricia asks: === Castlegregory (is there another name for that town in "Irish") === Patricia, That would be Caisleán Ghriaire, in Irish. The penultimate letter in the first word is an "a" with a long accent (fada) above it.....in case the letter becomes garbled in the plain-text format. Pete .................................................... Pete Schermerhorn, in the glorious Berkshire hills of western Massachusetts </HTML>

I have a question: I have read and copied many of the very good suggestions on this website. But now, I have to figure out what is the best method of finding my relatives...the one's I am most interested in are in Lawrence, MA, the Coakleys and the O'Connors, etc...or Haverhill, MA...should I join the NEGHs for $75 and work that part of the family; should I keep my Ancestry subscription...should I just go out and hire a genealogist at $20 per hour...I never seem able to get to Waterbury, CT (to investigate my grandfather's death) or Lawrence, MA, and maybe that would be the best method...I really want to find the Coakleys from Castlegregory (is there another name for that town in "Irish") and the Dennehy's, from Illancaum who are said to be "elusive." My mind boggles at the maps and the church registrations and the many versions of the names. How would you recommend I find these folks...I have the basic information On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 4:58 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > I am trying to track down one of my O'Connor lines which is kind of like > looking for the proverbial needle in the proverbial haystack. >  > What I think I know is that one set of my great great grandparents were > Martin Connor/O'Connor and Mary Flahiff/Flahive/Flehive. If I'm correct, > their marriage was recorded in Castlegregory on February 5, 1854. > Witnesses > were Patrick Commane and Ellen Fitzgerald. >  > The family was from Cahir/Caher Castlegregory. With the records found > online, it's possible that Mary Flahiff was the daughter of John Flahive > and > Johanna O'Donnell OR John Flahive and Margaret Trant. There are two > baptisms > one in 1833 and the other in 1836 either of which may pertain to my great > great grandmother. >  > Martin and Mary had the following children: Honora(1854), > Mary(1856),Mary(1857), > Cornelius(1858),Michael(1861),Michael(1862),Catherine(1865) and > Martin(1867). If I'm correct, Catherine is(was?) my great grandmother. > She > and her brother Martin emigrated to western Massachusetts in the 1880's. >  > I'm trying to determine the fate of the other siblings and of Martin and > Mary. It's most likely that the earliest Mary and Michael died in > infancy, > hence the others of the same name. >  > Family lore has it that a part of the family emigrated to upper NY state > and > still another emigrated to New Zealand. To date, I cannot confirm either > of > those situations. >  > I've looked at the online records and cannot find an apparent marriage > for > any of the siblings. >  > So it's Honora, Michael, Mary and Cornelius whom I am seeking plus any > death > record regarding Martin and Mary Flahiff Connor/O'Connor. >  > I did check the online 1901 census records for Caher and there was no > Connor/O'Connor listed. > >  > Any and all suggestions are welcome. >  > Ed O'Connor > Hudson,MA formerly of Holyoke > _______________ > --------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message. > > To subscribe to the Digest version of the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'subscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message. > > To visit the County Kerry Research and Resources Page go to: > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Michael, I have just spoken to John McCarthy's brother Michael's grandson. His name is Ted and he lives in Old Road Cahirciveen. If you PM me I will give you his phone number. There is only one surviving member of John McCarthy's direct family her name is Mrs. Dorothy Fisher and she lives in Long Island Brendan ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: "michael leane" <[email protected]> Cc: "irl-kerry-l" <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, 22 September, 2010 10:14:36 GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, Portugal Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Help Cahirciveen Hi Michael, John McCarthy aged 49 is listed as living in house 13.1 Old Road 1911 census. He was a widower, living with him were: Samuel 8 son Hannah 28 sister Kathleen 16 sister. Brendan ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael leane" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, 21 September, 2010 20:46:15 GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, Portugal Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Help Cahirciveen Hello Listers A mass grave has been recently located near the site of the Battle of Mons 1914/18 war it contained about 250 bodies among them was 3 Royal Munster Fusiliers Soldiers, One from Cahirciveen A Private Patrick McCarthy Service No 10399 He was 18 yrs of age. He was son of John McCarthy Old Market Street Cahirciveen They want to contact his relatives to confirm his I.D. to give him a proper burial he was already in a missing list. A friend who worked in Cahirciveen spent a day there trying to get contact but made no progress he was told a number of old people who would know passed away in the past few years and with high emigration over the years all his family may have went. I understand that Old Market Street was also known as Old Road. Do any Listers from the Cahirciveen around the World have any Info on the death of Patrick or the family he came from I would like to hear from them Michael in Killarney _______________ --------------- Policies of the IRL-Kerry List: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/mailing.html To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message. To subscribe to the Digest version of the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'subscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message. To visit the County Kerry Research and Resources Page go to: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ Share your stuff! If you transcribed research data, share it with the Irish genealogy community. Contribute it to the Kerry website to reach a wide audience. Contact Ann Hammer, data maintenance. Her contact info is at http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ contrib.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _______________ --------------- Policies of the IRL-Kerry List: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/mailing.html To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message. To subscribe to the Digest version of the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'subscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message. To visit the County Kerry Research and Resources Page go to: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ Share your stuff! If you transcribed research data, share it with the Irish genealogy community. Contribute it to the Kerry website to reach a wide audience. Contact Ann Hammer, data maintenance. Her contact info is at http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ contrib.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Michael, John McCarthy aged 49 is listed as living in house 13.1 Old Road 1911 census. He was a widower, living with him were: Samuel 8 son Hannah 28 sister Kathleen 16 sister. Brendan ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael leane" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, 21 September, 2010 20:46:15 GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, Portugal Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Help Cahirciveen Hello Listers A mass grave has been recently located near the site of the Battle of Mons 1914/18 war it contained about 250 bodies among them was 3 Royal Munster Fusiliers Soldiers, One from Cahirciveen A Private Patrick McCarthy Service No 10399 He was 18 yrs of age. He was son of John McCarthy Old Market Street Cahirciveen They want to contact his relatives to confirm his I.D. to give him a proper burial he was already in a missing list. A friend who worked in Cahirciveen spent a day there trying to get contact but made no progress he was told a number of old people who would know passed away in the past few years and with high emigration over the years all his family may have went. I understand that Old Market Street was also known as Old Road. Do any Listers from the Cahirciveen around the World have any Info on the death of Patrick or the family he came from I would like to hear from them Michael in Killarney _______________ --------------- Policies of the IRL-Kerry List: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/mailing.html To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message. To subscribe to the Digest version of the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'subscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message. To visit the County Kerry Research and Resources Page go to: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ Share your stuff! If you transcribed research data, share it with the Irish genealogy community. Contribute it to the Kerry website to reach a wide audience. Contact Ann Hammer, data maintenance. Her contact info is at http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ contrib.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Listers A mass grave has been recently located near the site of the Battle of Mons 1914/18 war it contained about 250 bodies among them was 3 Royal Munster Fusiliers Soldiers, One from Cahirciveen A Private Patrick McCarthy Service No 10399 He was 18 yrs of age. He was son of John McCarthy Old Market Street Cahirciveen They want to contact his relatives to confirm his I.D. to give him a proper burial he was already in a missing list. A friend who worked in Cahirciveen spent a day there trying to get contact but made no progress he was told a number of old people who would know passed away in the past few years and with high emigration over the years all his family may have went. I understand that Old Market Street was also known as Old Road. Do any Listers from the Cahirciveen around the World have any Info on the death of Patrick or the family he came from I would like to hear from them Michael in Killarney

Lori Lyn Price to speak Merrimack Valley Chapter members on Sat. Sept. 25th at 10 AM at the Lawrence History Center, 6 Essex St. Lawrence,MA. Lori Lyn Price, a professional genealogical speaker in the Boston area, focuses on connecting with your ancestors via social history-- an aspect of genealogy that brings your ancestors' traditions and culture to life. She has been working on her personal genealogy for over ten years and is currently working on a graduate degree in history from the Harvard Extension School. She loves sharing her knowledge and passion of both genealogy and history with others. Her website iswww.bridgingthepast.com Lori's topic is : Genealogy in your Pajamas: Put your Library Card to Use Did you know that as a Massachusetts resident you have free access to the Boston Public Library’s online resources? If your town library is associated with the Minuteman system, you can also access some of their online resources from the comfort of your own home. We will cover the electronic genealogical resources available through the Boston Public Library and some of the more popular resources that might be available through your local library (each library decideswhich databases they will carry). Hope to see everyone at our First Fall Meeting! Public is welcome! Karen Trearchis, President MV Chapter and Recording Secretary of MSOG

Why I am I receiving my Kerry Digest as a downloadable file? My PC will not open it due to my virus protection. Thank you Mary

Does anybody know if they are going to put more Old Parish Records online on the www.irishgenealogy.ie website? I know that we mustn't cavil and that it is marvellous to have all the records already put on it, but any word on the rest of the OPRs? Specifically the West Cork records. It's been very quiet lately..... Mary

To add to the confusion of registration dates v birth dates, looking for children born in the 1860's in Victoria (Australia), I found one child registered twice - she was born on 25 Feb 1865, her mother registered her birth on July 12, 1865 and her father registered her birth on 20 Jan 1866! The actual location of birth and ages for mother and father varied slightly between the two registrations, but since both were illiterate it isn't too surprising. On the same registry pages, there were several other children registered months after their birth. I wonder if the Registrar carried out spot checks - perhaps rather like the census collectors - asking at each house or tenement in the street if there are any babies there who had not been registered. Sandra Researching Joy/Joyce, Buckley and Hicks from Listowel - Tralee area.

Andy All my Canadian ancestors were in Quebec. The information I found was at the St. Ann's Parish in Montreal and St. Hyacinthe, Quebec and the rest were from the Druin collection. The Druin Collection is very difficult to read and having knowledge of French and Latin are a great help. Liz - in Fla. In a message dated 9/17/2010 12:49:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: To Ray, Lizzie, Bill etc. There is a possibility those early Jesuit Records may be either at Guelph, ON. or at the Jesuit Headquarters in Toronto, ON. Since the early Jesuits , to my knowledge operated from Ontario, even in Upper Michigan, many of their records may be here. Trying to get records from them, is costly, whether they find them or not. I'm most familiar with their records from the Grey & Bruce County, Ontario area, where as itinerant Priests, they operated from Guelph in the early 1850's until 1857. Then the Basilian Order took over covering the several Missions as well as the Stations. Stations were the larger homes of Catholic residents, to which the Priest would visit about once a month if possible on horseback, or by buggy or cutter in winter, to solemnize Baptisms and Marriages. These stations were used until a Church in the area was built. Their records were then transferred into the registers at their headquarters, St Mary's Church in Owen Sound. The Basilians guarded their registers well. I was allowed to personally research them as they were handled with care, using white gloves. When I started, one Register of Baptisms from 1867 to 1874 was missing. Nineteen years later it was mysteriously discovered on the front counter of the office. Who had it? No one knows. All Registers are kept at the Parish level in that area. I recently was involved with searching those records for Native Canadian Baptisms & Marriages of Indians & Metis,from Cape Croker Indian Reserve, including the marriage of my g-aunt. Two years ago, with the widespread lack of Vocations to the Priesthood, the Basilians gave up Owen Sound and it's Missions to the Diocese of Hamilton. Now no one may check the registers except the church secretary. She is doing a fine job however, at a reasonable price. Records for Waterloo County, Ontario Catholic Parishes covered by the Resurrectionist Order prior to the building of the Parish Church, are at St. Jerome's University Library, University of Waterloo. Andy in Kitchener.

-- Andy, what a gold mine of information you are! Thank you so much. Because I could not find baptismal information at the churches in Ontario in existence during the 1855-1865 period, I had pretty much given up. I now have new avenues to pursue. Thank you so much. Genie Flahie --- Original Message ----- From: "Andy & Norma McAuliffe" <[email protected]> To: "Ray Masrshall" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 12:49 PM Subject: [IRL-KERRY] Where are those baptismal and marriage records? > To Ray, Lizzie, Bill etc. There is a possibility those early Jesuit > Records may be either at Guelph, ON. or at the Jesuit Headquarters in > Toronto, ON. Since the early Jesuits , to my knowledge operated from > Ontario, even in Upper Michigan, many of their records may be here. > Trying > to get records from them, is costly, whether they find them or not. I'm > most familiar with their records from the Grey & Bruce County, Ontario > area, > where as itinerant Priests, they operated from Guelph in the early 1850's > until 1857. Then the Basilian Order took over covering the several > Missions > as well as the Stations. Stations were the larger homes of Catholic > residents, to which the Priest would visit about once a month if possible > on > horseback, or by buggy or cutter in winter, to solemnize Baptisms and > Marriages. These stations were used until a Church in the area was built. > Their records were then transferred into the registers at their > headquarters, St Mary's Church in Owen Sound. > > The Basilians guarded their registers well. I was allowed to personally > research them as they were handled with care, using white gloves. When I > started, one Register of Baptisms from 1867 to 1874 was missing. > Nineteen > years later it was mysteriously discovered on the front counter of the > office. Who had it? No one knows. All Registers are kept at the Parish > level in that area. > I recently was involved with searching those records for Native Canadian > Baptisms & Marriages of Indians & Metis,from Cape Croker Indian Reserve, > including the marriage of my g-aunt. Two years ago, with the widespread > lack of Vocations to the Priesthood, the Basilians gave up Owen Sound and > it's Missions to the Diocese of Hamilton. Now no one may check the > registers except the church secretary. She is doing a fine job however, > at > a reasonable price. > > Records for Waterloo County, Ontario Catholic Parishes covered by the > Resurrectionist Order prior to the building of the Parish Church, are at > St. > Jerome's University Library, University of Waterloo. > > Andy in Kitchener. > > _______________ > --------------- > > Policies of the IRL-Kerry List: > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/mailing.html > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message. > > To subscribe to the Digest version of the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'subscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message. > > To visit the County Kerry Research and Resources Page go to: > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ > > Share your stuff! If you transcribed research data, share it with the > Irish genealogy community. Contribute it to the Kerry website to reach a > wide audience. Contact Ann Hammer, data maintenance. Her contact info is > at http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/ contrib.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3140 - Release Date: 09/17/10 02:34:00

To Ray, Lizzie, Bill etc. There is a possibility those early Jesuit Records may be either at Guelph, ON. or at the Jesuit Headquarters in Toronto, ON. Since the early Jesuits , to my knowledge operated from Ontario, even in Upper Michigan, many of their records may be here. Trying to get records from them, is costly, whether they find them or not. I'm most familiar with their records from the Grey & Bruce County, Ontario area, where as itinerant Priests, they operated from Guelph in the early 1850's until 1857. Then the Basilian Order took over covering the several Missions as well as the Stations. Stations were the larger homes of Catholic residents, to which the Priest would visit about once a month if possible on horseback, or by buggy or cutter in winter, to solemnize Baptisms and Marriages. These stations were used until a Church in the area was built. Their records were then transferred into the registers at their headquarters, St Mary's Church in Owen Sound. The Basilians guarded their registers well. I was allowed to personally research them as they were handled with care, using white gloves. When I started, one Register of Baptisms from 1867 to 1874 was missing. Nineteen years later it was mysteriously discovered on the front counter of the office. Who had it? No one knows. All Registers are kept at the Parish level in that area. I recently was involved with searching those records for Native Canadian Baptisms & Marriages of Indians & Metis,from Cape Croker Indian Reserve, including the marriage of my g-aunt. Two years ago, with the widespread lack of Vocations to the Priesthood, the Basilians gave up Owen Sound and it's Missions to the Diocese of Hamilton. Now no one may check the registers except the church secretary. She is doing a fine job however, at a reasonable price. Records for Waterloo County, Ontario Catholic Parishes covered by the Resurrectionist Order prior to the building of the Parish Church, are at St. Jerome's University Library, University of Waterloo. Andy in Kitchener.

And I will throw in New Zealand experience. Last year I obtained the New Zealand Birth Certificates for the 9 children born to my great grandfather (Tim SUGRUE from Kerry) and the 12 children born to his brother (John SUGRUE from Kerry). I then obtained all 21 Baptism records for these children and compared them to their Birth Certificates. The years spaned 1880 to 1905. In NZ parents had three months to register their children. There was a penalty to pay if the date of registration was more than three months after the birth. Therefore on occasions when it came to registering the birth, if it were more than three months after the birth, to avoid the penalty the date of birth was moved forward a couple of weeks or months to suit. Of the 21 children, 4 had baptism dates before they were born - according to the dates of birth on their Birth Certificates! As the date of registration was included on each of the certificates it was clear that these 4 particular registrations occurred more than three months after the Baptism date - hence a little porkie was told to avoid a fine. The baptism dates for the other 17 children were in every case within three weeks of the date of birth as recorded on the Birth Certificate. In majority of the baptisms took place 10 to 14 days after the date of birth as recorded on the birth certificates. I expected the baptism to have been on a Sunday after church but checking calendars of the time, the baptisms were on any day of the week. Another thing to take into consideration - it appeared that for the elder children in each family it was always the father who registered the births in my case. When Tim and John first arrived in NZ (1872 and 1874) neither could read and write. So it left to their memories when they got to the Post Office to register the birth as to the date of that birth. It was really interesting to watch the fathers signature gain in strength and confidence each year with the registration of each new child. In the mid 1880's the mothers also started registering the births and again their signatures were very child like to start with but became stronger and more confident with each new registration. The Baptism records were so valuable with the names of the sponsors included. I looked into every sponsor to try and work out if the sponsor was family or friend. This way I found several family connections that I would not otherwise have known about. Yes it was an expensive exercise and one that took a lot of time but well worth the expense and effort. The information I gained was fantastic. Jenny __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5456 (20100916) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Let me throw in an Australian experience, in early 1850's.My own ancestors were convicts in the far outback of Australia when a Priest travelling through on horseback, married them and baptised their 4 children. Would have noted it in his note book and recorded it when he arrived in Sydney 250 miles from the events. And of course if he had met with an accident before getting to Sydney and his note book destroyed there would have been more brick walls to break through. I imagine this happened all over in the days prior to civil requirements. Even in Kerry Bill __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5456 (20100916) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Don't forget that before 1829, it was illegal for Catholic priests to even keep records in Ireland. So the record books they kept had to fit in their pockets as they traveled on horseback from place to place. They weren't the large ledger size books we are used to looking at in places where record keeping was legal. In looking at the old Castleisland records, the handwriting was extremely "cramped" and difficult to read, especially, of course, because it was in Latin. Also, religious order priests in the New World and the lands down under were often the missionaries that traveled through mission country. There was no "diocesan headquarters" where they reported their activities. Mission areas were classified by the Church as "Apostolic Vicariates." But the missionary religious order priests might have brought their record books back to a headquarters of their religious order. I remember once eavesdropping on a Native American family on the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, in Marquette, in the Longyear Research Library seeking baptismal records. That is a wonderful library with many fabulous documents. But they were told to seek their records with the Jesuits. But the librarian did not know where those record books might be kept. Anybody have any ideas? Ray Marshall In a very coolish Minneapolis, just having returned from his 50th high school graduation reunion in Duluth. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 3:22 PM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRL-KERRY] Church Records vs Civil Records It is my understanding that the Ministers, Parish Priests etc, would travel to the smaller Canadian communities to do the Baptisms. Therefore, many Baptism records would be recorded at one time - each month. They may not have know the actual birth date. Liz in sunny Space Coast Florida