Here's part of what what I've read about the Irish censuses. *** http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/help/about19011911census.html "What information does the census contain? Ireland is unusual among English-speaking census-taking countries in that our original household manuscript returns survive. These are the forms filled out and signed by the head of each household on census night. Most other countries only have Enumerators' books, where family details were transcribed by the person charged with collecting the census information. The basic topographical divisions for the census are: County; District Electoral Division; Townland or Street. This is a simple hierarchical structure which makes it easy to access any area in the country. The returns are arranged in clusters by townland/street within district electoral division within county. For each townland/street, there are a number of original household returns, filled in and signed by heads of households, and three statistical returns, dealing with religious denominations, classification of buildings, and out-offices and farm-steadings, filled out by the Enumerator for that townland/street." ** It goes on to say *** "The census also records an individual's ability to read or write ...." *** I know that at least some of my ancestors in Ireland read and wrote either not at all or less than fluently, and some were semi-numerate at best. Who filled out the forms for the household head or household members in such cases? I don't see an answer on the page cited above. PJ

Hi again Its debatable just how many could or could not read & write Then as now people did not trust the authorities and said they could not write when they could, it was a two finger salute to the powers that be, many thought the census was just a way of checking up on them and may give the government more ways to tax them Literacy levels are generally under stated and all it took was one person in the household or a friend or neighbour who could write Children were also taught at school how to fill in the schedules There is no doubt that the enumerators when collecting the schedules filled in some of them for householders, but it could not have been that many given the time scale they had to adhere to Enumerators were not paid a great deal and had to complete the exercise to a laid down time scale or they lost part of their pay The schedules do survive for Ireland for the 1901 & 1911, whereas in England and Wales the 1911 is the only one, in Scotland they transcribed the 1911 like all the earlier census and destroyed the schedules, so Ireland is better off than most for the later census Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > I know that at least some of my ancestors in Ireland read and wrote either > not at all or less than fluently, and some were semi-numerate at best. > Who filled out the forms for the household head or household members in > such cases? I don't see an answer on the page cited above. > > PJ

Very interesting, Nivard. I've wondered how much passive resistance went on in Ireland, especially under the Empire, and I get the distinct feeling some of my people continued the practice over here in the US when it came to officialdom. That's part of why I'm thinking about the apparent massaged truth I find in some of their records. I suspect I'd act the same way, given their experiences. I have nothing but admiration for their courage, their perseverance, and their making the best of things. What's a two-finger salute? Is it the same as our middle-finger salute? PJ > > Its debatable just how many could or could not read & write > > Then as now people did not trust the authorities and said they could not > write when they could, it was a two finger salute to the powers that be, > many thought the census was just a way of checking up on them and may > give the government more ways to tax them > >