Hi folks, There’s a head banging session going on here, can anyone help? James Poole, born 20 Nov 1877, bapt at St Michan, Dublin on 7 Jan 1878, Parents: Wesley Poole and Sarah Kerivan of 57 Wellington St George Poole, born 26 Nov 1877, bapt at Bethseda Chapel, Dublin on 11 Jan 1878 Dublin. Parents Wesley and Sarah Poole. Father a printer of Wellington St. Wesley Poole, born 26 Nov 1877, bapt at Bethesda Chapel, Dublin on 11 Jan 1878 , Parents: Wesley and Sarah Poole. Father: Printer of Wellington St. Best wishes, Jon

Hi Bev The Articles of War are what every man agreed to and signed after he had read them or were read to him There is a great range of crimes or misdemeanors that he could have commited from quite minor to major such as desertion which might carry the death penalty He could have been in clink for one day or several months In the British Army Chelsea pension records there is just one Samuel RAWLINS serving in that period, he was discharged in 1815 "ruptured and worn out" poor chap, he was 49 when discharged and born Worcestershire But there may well have been others who did not get a pension (many did not) Was there a regiment mentioned in the record you found? No S or Samuel RAWLINS in the medal rolls of the period Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 22/07/2012 12:06, user917826@aol.com wrote: > Hello, > > I found a record for a Saml Rawlins from 1814 in Kilmainham Dublin > in Family Search's new lists of Irish Prison Records. His offense > was "Breach of Articles of War". Perhaps someone could shed light > on what one would have to be doing to have been imprisoned for this? > Did this carry a long sentence or deportation? > > > I would love to find this person in other records. > > Bev W

Look at the electoral roles on dublinheritage, there's a couple of pages with the surname Daniel + also Daniels. (1939). For present day stats, google Eircom residential listings. Maggie On 22 Jul 2012, at 04:45, <kopfler@i-55.com> wrote: My great great grandfather, Laurence DANIEL, came to United States from Ireland (County Kilkenny we think) in about 1848. DANIEL does not strike me as an Irish surname, but family lore has it that his son, Philip, added Mac to the name when he left home at 19 because MACDANIEL sounds more Scottish. I suppose this was an attempt to make it easier for him to find work. DANIEL does not seem to be a common name in Ireland. Does anyone have any idea of how many people in Ireland have that surname? Fred Kopfler ****************************** Topic: A mailing list for anyone with a genealogical interest in County Dublin, Ireland and the City of Dublin. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-DUBLIN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Nivard. I'll get their records to see what these bad boys may have been up to. Marg >From the Beautiful British Columbia Cariboo Region, Canada

Hi Nivard, What kind of information do the Chelsea Pension Records include? I have a Christopher, b 1875 Dublin who was in the East Yorkshire Regiment & Vincent POOLE b 1881 born Dublin in the Royal Irish Fusiliers. I believe both men spent time behind bars. Both men were also involved with the IRA. Would the records give reasons for and periods of incarceration? I see their names on FMP and wonder if it would be worth the cost to purchase the record. Thank you, Marg >From the Beautiful British Columbia Cariboo Region, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nivard Ovington" <ovington1@sky.com> Hi Bev The Articles of War are what every man agreed to and signed after he had read them or were read to him There is a great range of crimes or misdemeanors that he could have commited from quite minor to major such as desertion which might carry the death penalty He could have been in clink for one day or several months

Nivard, There is no regiment mentioned in the Familysearch record, Do we conclude from the Army Chelsea Pension Records, that this gentleman was living in Middlesex at the time that he retired? Bev W -----Original Message----- From: Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com> To: irl-dublin <irl-dublin@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sun, Jul 22, 2012 4:27 am Subject: Re: [IRL-DUBLIN] Prison records Hi Bev The Articles of War are what every man agreed to and signed after he had read them or were read to him There is a great range of crimes or misdemeanors that he could have commited from quite minor to major such as desertion which might carry the death penalty He could have been in clink for one day or several months In the British Army Chelsea pension records there is just one Samuel RAWLINS serving in that period, he was discharged in 1815 "ruptured and worn out" poor chap, he was 49 when discharged and born Worcestershire But there may well have been others who did not get a pension (many did not) Was there a regiment mentioned in the record you found? No S or Samuel RAWLINS in the medal rolls of the period Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 22/07/2012 12:06, user917826@aol.com wrote: > Hello, > > I found a record for a Saml Rawlins from 1814 in Kilmainham Dublin > in Family Search's new lists of Irish Prison Records. His offense > was "Breach of Articles of War". Perhaps someone could shed light > on what one would have to be doing to have been imprisoned for this? > Did this carry a long sentence or deportation? > > > I would love to find this person in other records. > > Bev W ****************************** Topic: A mailing list for anyone with a genealogical interest in County Dublin, Ireland and the City of Dublin. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-DUBLIN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, I found a record for a Saml Rawlins from 1814 in Kilmainham Dublin in Family Search's new lists of Irish Prison Records. His offense was "Breach of Articles of War". Perhaps someone could shed light on what one would have to be doing to have been imprisoned for this? Did this carry a long sentence or deportation? I would love to find this person in other records. Bev W

My great great grandfather, Laurence DANIEL, came to United States from Ireland (County Kilkenny we think) in about 1848. DANIEL does not strike me as an Irish surname, but family lore has it that his son, Philip, added Mac to the name when he left home at 19 because MACDANIEL sounds more Scottish. I suppose this was an attempt to make it easier for him to find work. DANIEL does not seem to be a common name in Ireland. Does anyone have any idea of how many people in Ireland have that surname? Fred Kopfler

Paddy, My grandfather, Edwin O'Toole, married Margaret Walsh (my grandma) in Chicago, although, he did not have to add the O', as his father already did that. Small world!! <My first cousin on my Walsh side (Kilkenny) married a  Toole.  She only agreed to the wedding if he would take back the 'O' .  He agreed and she then became Mrs. O'Toole. It's a crazy world!!!! Paddy>

John Hennessey Tried on 31 Dec; 1833 at Dublin Indicted and found guilty of stealing butter Sentenced to be transported for seven years John's occupation was a labourer Arrived on board Royal Admiral 3 on 22 Jan; 1835 from Dublin In 1837 he was assigned to John Street at Bathurst NSW. William Graham Tried on 22 July 1822 in County Cavan Ireland Indicted and found guilty of shoplifting Sentenced to be transported for seven years William's occupation was a shoemaker Arrived on board the Recovery 2 in 30 July 1823 from Cork. On arrival he was forward to Bathurst for distribution and by 1828 was assigned to John Street. Later his name appears on a return of settlers and men punished in the County of Westmoreland. He was issured a Ticket of Leave on 28 July 1829, and and allowed to remain in the District of Bathurst on the recommendation of the Bench. He was delivered up Dec; 1832

Dropping the Mac or the O from names-  It is well known that the Mac and O have been dropped and added at will. In Ireland, especially in the area known as the 'Pale' around Dublin, it was declared that the Irish take on names in an English form. Many a man would drop the Mac and O when doing business with the powers that be, and then add it back again when among old Irish friends. The census taker could have used either form, with or without the Gaelic 'prefix' so to speak. This means you may have to look for both forms of the name when you go back into the records ! That is in addition to looking for other ways of spelling altogether - some examples of that will be given further on in this book. Suffice it to say that the sound of the name becomes more important than the spelling of the name at times.

Cara and all who are interested in the change of name of many of the Irish went for when leaving their Irish homes and emigrating to other countries. >From my experience I find that the explanation Bill has put forward is very close to what happened in a branch of my family. On leaving Ireland they dropped the 'O' from O'Madden when arriving in England and never admitted that there had ever been an O in prefix. It was to do with trying to hide the fact they were Catholics. (bet it didn't work) The family later emigrated to NSW Australia and were quite angry if anyone here suggested that they should take the O back. My first cousin on my Walsh side (Kilkenny) married a Toole. She only agreed to the wedding if he would take back the 'O' . He agreed and she then became Mrs. O'Toole. It's a crazy world!!!! Paddy ----- Original Message ----- From: <wm.karr@comcast.net> To: <irl-dublin@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-DUBLIN] WHY THEY PUT THE "O" BACK IN THEIR NAMES > > > Cara, > > > > I once asked why my Tooles from Dublin became O'T ooles when they came to > the States. I thought it was you who pointed out that in Ireland they > tried to mask the fact they were Catholic in order to get work, so they > dropped the O'. When they came to the States, there was no such reason, > although, in the States the Irish were discriminated against regardless of > their religion and many dropped the prefixes or changed the spel ling of > their names. Bill > Subject: Re: [IRL-DUBLIN] WHY THEY PUT THE "O" BACK IN THEIR NAMES ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5144 - Release Date: 07/20/12

Passwords need changing on accounts, and this needs doing regularly to stay one step ahead of the Mindless people who hack into peoples accounts, please do this for the sake of those you keep in your address book, and for those who use these lists. Thankyou Cara

Cara, I once asked why my Tooles from Dublin became O'T ooles when they came to the States. I thought it was you who pointed out that in Ireland they tried to mask the fact they were Catholic in order to get work, so they dropped the O'. When they came to the States, there was no such reason, although, in the States the Irish were discriminated against regardless of their religion and many dropped the prefixes or changed the spel ling of their names. There were also m any whose names were changed by the people at the port authorities they came through because the people coming through could not spell and so the people at the port authorities spelled them phoenetically or how they sounded to them and not necessarily correctly. Thus, in the St ates we have census records and immigration records that have many missp elt names in them and we are forever trying to find the correct Michael McDermott, John Toole, James Fitrzpatrick or the like. Then there is the guessing at which port they arrived. It is all so confusing. Ah, but when you find them, it is like finding a lost treasure (which it is!!!) Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cara" <cara_links@bigpond.com> To: irl-dublin@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 7:19:36 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-DUBLIN] WHY THEY PUT THE "O" BACK IN THEIR NAMES I think the reason for it being dropped is more interesting than why they added it back Colette have you read about the Pale? Very intriguing stuff. Cara -----Original Message----- From: irl-dublin-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-dublin-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of colette o rorke Sent: 20 July 2012 09:08 To: Dublin City list; dublin tracing your roots Subject: [IRL-DUBLIN] WHY THEY PUT THE "O" BACK IN THEIR NAMES I always wondered why, around the turn of the 20th century, my RORKE's became O'RORKE, and my CONNOR's became O'CONNOR's.  But I've just read an interesting article by the GUILD OF ONE-NAME STUDIES which seems to explain it, as follows: "During the Gaelic Revival of the late 19th century, and the struggle for independence in the first quarter of the 20th century, nationalists began using the Gaelic prefixes of "O" and "Mac" before their surnames"............ So, it seems that the mystery is solved! Colette                                                   ****************************** Topic: A mailing list for anyone with a genealogical interest in County Dublin, Ireland and the City of Dublin. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-DUBLIN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5140 - Release Date: 07/18/12 ****************************** Topic: A mailing list for anyone with a genealogical interest in County Dublin, Ireland and the City of Dublin. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-DUBLIN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

No Cara, haven't read that article. Is it also included in One Name Studies? Colette > From: cara_links@bigpond.com > To: irl-dublin@rootsweb.com > Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:19:36 +1000 > Subject: Re: [IRL-DUBLIN] WHY THEY PUT THE "O" BACK IN THEIR NAMES > > I think the reason for it being dropped is more interesting than why they > added it back Colette have you read about the Pale? > > Very intriguing stuff. > > Cara

I think the reason for it being dropped is more interesting than why they added it back Colette have you read about the Pale? Very intriguing stuff. Cara -----Original Message----- From: irl-dublin-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-dublin-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of colette o rorke Sent: 20 July 2012 09:08 To: Dublin City list; dublin tracing your roots Subject: [IRL-DUBLIN] WHY THEY PUT THE "O" BACK IN THEIR NAMES I always wondered why, around the turn of the 20th century, my RORKE's became O'RORKE, and my CONNOR's became O'CONNOR's. But I've just read an interesting article by the GUILD OF ONE-NAME STUDIES which seems to explain it, as follows: "During the Gaelic Revival of the late 19th century, and the struggle for independence in the first quarter of the 20th century, nationalists began using the Gaelic prefixes of "O" and "Mac" before their surnames"............ So, it seems that the mystery is solved! Colette ****************************** Topic: A mailing list for anyone with a genealogical interest in County Dublin, Ireland and the City of Dublin. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-DUBLIN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5140 - Release Date: 07/18/12

I have visited Irish Genealogy many times looking for my Dublin Coogans - one of whom is my 2Xggfather and one who is I believe, his brother (two upstate New York Coogans in Cayuga Co., before the big migration makes me suspicious) And what do I find but half of them, not my for sure half <G> of course not but I found Morris/Maurice and his son Joseph and marriages and baptisms. THANK whoever sent the URL in <G> huge bunches of flowers and chocolates to them G<> Unless it is a guy and then tickets for the World Cup ><G> Eliz On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 2:22 AM, SandyYd <sandyyd@iinet.net.au> wrote: > The Irish Genealogy site is wonderful and greatly appreciated > (especially on the other side of the world). Through it, I have been > able to break down one of my brick walls. > > I am researching James and William Augustus WILKINSON and families, > musicians and music teachers in Dublin in the 19th century. > > Sandy > > > HildaNic@aol.com wrote: >> IrishGenealogy.ie works fine too & is easy to remember. >> Hilda >> ****************************** >> > > ****************************** > Topic: A mailing list for anyone with a genealogical interest in County Dublin, Ireland and the City of Dublin. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-DUBLIN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I always wondered why, around the turn of the 20th century, my RORKE's became O'RORKE, and my CONNOR's became O'CONNOR's. But I've just read an interesting article by the GUILD OF ONE-NAME STUDIES which seems to explain it, as follows: "During the Gaelic Revival of the late 19th century, and the struggle for independence in the first quarter of the 20th century, nationalists began using the Gaelic prefixes of "O" and "Mac" before their surnames"............ So, it seems that the mystery is solved! Colette

John Hughes Tried on 29 Aug; 1833 in Dublin City Indicted and found guilty of recieving stolen money. Sentenced to be transported for seven years. John's occupation was a indoor servant and groom. Arrived on board the James Laing 29 June 1834 from Dublin. In 1837 he was assigned to John Street at Bathurst NSW. He recieved a Certificate of Freedom on 11 March 1842 James Murray Tried on 6 July 1823 at Galway Ireland Details of crime have not been found Sentenced to be transported for life. James occupation was rope maker Arrived on board the Prince Regent on 15 July1824 from Cork Ireland. On arrival Murray was forwarded to Bathurst for diribution where in 1828 he was assigned to John Street. He was issured a Ticket of Leave 31 Feb; 1834 his ticket was returned and cancelled having been mutilated. A second ticket of leave was issured in lieu of the first on 8 July 1839 that allowed Murray to remain in the District of Bathurst, on recommendation of the Bench. He received a Conditional Pardon in Dec; 1842

The Irish Genealogy site is wonderful and greatly appreciated (especially on the other side of the world). Through it, I have been able to break down one of my brick walls. I am researching James and William Augustus WILKINSON and families, musicians and music teachers in Dublin in the 19th century. Sandy HildaNic@aol.com wrote: > IrishGenealogy.ie works fine too & is easy to remember. > Hilda > ****************************** >