Cara wrote: Wills and Administrations do not begin until 1871 is there any other clues to look at for your Thomas Hughes, any suggestions on who his father may have been, we may be able through indexes to cross this bridge, allowing I did Say Maybe. Thanks, Cara, for the bad news about wills and other records. I'm aware of what happened in 1922, but thought I would ask anyway. It's likr researching in the southern part of the US, a lot of their records were burned during the Civil War. Thomas HUGHES was born 1817 in Glasnevin. His possible parents were John HUGHES and Judith MCGUIRE as they had a son, Thomas born in 1817. Thanks, Sue

Please remove from the body of the mail all data that does not link to your subject heading. Please change the subject heading to what it links to within the mail. Those of you who receive digest mail, please change the subject when replying to any part of your digest mail and also delete all other parts that do not relate to the said subject Reasons behind this request that is made very often to all my lists is this:- When people are searching the archives using the search engine, place in it there surname search or if its for eg. Guilds they are looking they use that word. They do not stop to look at a mail that says Digest no 6million vol 17 etc that is not of any use to them at all. Which of course then applies to the mails received in the L Mode. So please exercise these simple requests and it makes the list flow nicely and the archived material easier to use. Thankyou Cara List Admin

>From another List: >>Genealogy Info Update, >>A reminder that the Family Search organization has updated their on-line lessons and films dealing with genealogy research. The following URL will link you to an article by Kim Woodbury of the FS .org. Note that the FS library now has partnered with the (USA) Mid - Continent Public Library in Independence Missouri and produced additional films on given subjects. I have used a Canadian link to the article.<< _http://globalgenealogy.com/globalgazette/gazrr/gazrr208.htm_ (http://globalgenealogy.com/globalgazette/gazrr/gazrr208.htm) >>The familysearch.org link to the "Research Classes Online" lessons and films can be accessed via the following TinyURL.<< _http://tinyurl.com/debr9s_ (http://tinyurl.com/debr9s) >>Enjoy the free lessons<< Bob<<

Joseph Holland and Julia Barrett have a Jessie Louisa Holland North City Dublin 27/3/1875 And further to this I can add Joseph Holland and Mary Anne Mcluskey Belfast had 20/12/1864 a Margaret Holland Joseph Holland and Eliza Long of Killyleagh Co DOwn had 1- William John born 10/4/1866 2-Joseph born 20/9/1868 3-Robert born 26/7/1871 4-Female born 5/9/1870 Joseph Holland and Catharine Byrne had at Abbeyleix Queens Joseph Holland 4/3/1869 Joseph Holland and Isabella Lenox at Magherafelt Derry ( Londonderry) Had Frederick 27/2/1870 Joseph son of John married Isabella daughter of Andrew 31/5/1848 ( Miscellaneous Ireland) I can produce 109 marriages for the name Holland but they are only from 1847-1867 and scanty to say the least. Administration of the estate of Joseph Holland late of Cherry Hill Knock Belfast Merchant who died 3 October 1900 granted at Belfast to Mary Ann Holland the Widow. Administration (with the Will) of the personal estate of Joseph Holland late of Caraloon County Londonderry Farmer who died 7 April 1901 granted at Londonderry to Francis Holland Farmer Further on the derivatives of your name HOLLAND:- An englsih toponymic. in Co Limerick an abbreviated form of Mulholland and in CO Clare sometimes it is HOLOHAN and in Co Galway HOLIAN has been changed to HOLLAND So I have now through reading my own books etc, answered my own query to you on the name MULLHOLLAND or with one L MULHOLLAND which now makes me have to return to my sources and gather that spelling also for burials. My earliest records show that the name HOLLAND was in Limerick.......perhaps a beginning of your line I cannot say, but as they did go on to be big construction people perhaps and just perhaps they did begin in the SOuth and on to the North. But if you wish to have them then let me know and I will take them down and send on to you Off list. And that was only a dimple search using the name Joseph because that is the only clue you added in this mail. Joseph Holland and Mary Dives had at Amryborough Queens 1-Elizabeth 8/10/1867 2-Joseph 8/10/1867 Joseph Holland and Bridget Mescall of Labasheeda Co Clare Had Kate 17/12/1868 You dont add any dates or names so its a case of blind mans bluff in looking this name out for you, but as I have stated before any burials or obits or tombstones for names go to the other lists not here. So today I have posted out to the Tombstone and Cemetery list a detailed list of deaths that have been gathered over the years on the name HOLLAND, Have you considered looking at the name MULLHOLLAND in the possibility that the MULL was lost on your name, it is also interesting to note, those of you seeking the HOLAHAN name that it is also listed as a derivative of HOLLAND Cheers Cara

Morning Sue. I recently went into www.glasnevintrust.ie to see if I could find details of some of my relations that might have been buried there and I found them As you progress with your search you will be asked what type of entry do you want; I went for the detailed records, These listed-: Year, Date of internment, Sextons no, Registrar's no, NAME, AGE, residence, grave , section DATE OF DEATH, religion, occupation, MARRIED, cause, INFORMANT,order for internment. With all this information I found that I was able to confirm that they were my relations Possibly you might be able to do the same Regards Peter C Cheltenham UK ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 12:31 AM Subject: [IRL-DUBLIN] Wills in Ireland > I'm still looking for ways to figure out if the Thomas Hughes buried in > Glasnevin in 1868 is my gggrandfather. >

I know someone is seeking these as it came in one of my mails, on another matter so please forgive me if they are not all DUBLIN listings 1- Robert G Hoffman son of George married Ellen Chute daughter of Francis 16/11/1847 ( Miscellaneous Civil registrations) 2- Mary Ann daughter of John Hoffman married Sylvester Poff son of Jacob ( same source as above) 4/12/1849 3- Charles Pierschell son of Augustus Hoffman married Josephine Stevenson daughter of Joseph Clonfeacle Tyrone Ireland 12/10/1854 4- William McLaine son of Richard married Ellen daughter of Martin Hoffman of Carrigrohane Cork Ireland 20/1/1855 5- John Battersby son of John married Frances Elizabeth daughter of Francis Hoffman in St Peter Dublin 1/8/1855 6-David Peever son of Thomas married Eliza Huffman daughter of Samuel she was aged 16 years. at Bally McElligot Kerry Ireland 22/5/1860 7-Julius Hoffman son of Henry married Rebecca Barlow daughter of John in St Georges Dublin 10/11/1862 Births can be supplied from 1864 if you wish me to look at those as well. Most can now be acessed on the new sites, but some are still missing I guess they will always be missing. There was and maybe still be folk of that name, living in Arklow Co Wicklow, but the names could have become confused in time with Horseman, so that is just a snip from my own files. Cheers Cara

Hi Colette No, I mean that new collections are being made available on the internet, in particular I was referring to the recordsearchpilot and fsbeta sites the latter will eventually take over familysearch & recordsearchpilot There are many more collections available to look through and browse which have yet to be transcribed or indexed http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start Most image collections and any new additions will be on fsbeta https://beta.familysearch.org/ Although fsbeta is a tad awkward as yet to navigate it should get better in time Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hi Nivard > > Was just reading your post re HOLLAND surname. When you say this ... > "Things are being added regularly, don't forget to check the collections > as not everything is indexed" ..wouldn't you have to be in the country > where the Collections are actually held? Or am I missing something?? > > Oh, and thanks for your info re coach/carriage makers/builders. That's > what my g-grandfather and grandfather were, so I found it very > interesting. > > Cheers > Colette

Hi Sue Much probate material was lost along with the census in 1922 but some do survive For more on the subject see http://www.nationalarchives.ie/genealogy/testamentary.html And http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/irish-genealogy.htm Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > I'm still looking for ways to figure out if the Thomas Hughes buried in > Glasnevin in 1868 is my gggrandfather. > > I'm wondering if people in Ireland during that period of time had wills > and where I would have to look to see if he had one. > > Thanks in advance for any help. Sue

Have a look at www.nationalarchives.ie They have an index to wills which will tell you which year they begin. Maggie

This is a slow learning process for me. Not use to having restraints. Joseph Holland b 1839 d 3 Oct 1900 1857 married Mary Ann Anderson b County Armagh 1839 died 1918 both 19 at time of marriage. (Marriage certificate) Margaret Holland b 1864 to Joseph Holland and Mary Anne Mcluskey, Belfast is the child o the above Joseph. do not know where Mary Ann Anderson is by 1864. If you want I will explain how I know. Will of Joseph ( of Knock) to Mary Ann Holland widow also my Joseph Holland. At this time the others do not connect. John Holland is given as f/o Joseph Holland on marriage certificate and in 1861 according to Griffiths Valuation is living in Belfast. On marriage certif. of Joseph he is given as a Mason (Stone) I think. The only John Holland given at that time. Not far away, I think his son Joseph was living on 24 Corporation st. After 20+ yrs. I still have not found anyone that will say their family is related to Joseph as a brother or sister or what ever. On a death certificate there is a Annie Hughes living at 1 Hunt St. 1918 when Mary Ann Holland dies and gave info on death certificate and she is given as cousin. Unable to find Hughes that might connect. Thanks for all you research for all of us. 1875 an Eliza Holland dies at the home of Joseph with his wife Mary Ann Holland in attendance. She is buried in same cemetery as Joseph. I believe this to be his mother. I am searching for possible siblings for Joseph and to see if John Holland is the h/o Eliza, (we think Dugan)and the m/o of Joseph as he named his 1st dau. Eliza Jane Holland b 1859 in County Armagh. 1901 Census Shirley [email protected]

This message is attached to the records on the Irish Genealogy.ie site ........"The church register page containing this record has not yet been imaged". Does anybody know when they might be imaged? I can't find the answer on their site. Thanks Colette

Hi Nivard Was just reading your post re HOLLAND surname. When you say this ... "Things are being added regularly, don't forget to check the collections as not everything is indexed" ..wouldn't you have to be in the country where the Collections are actually held? Or am I missing something?? Oh, and thanks for your info re coach/carriage makers/builders. That's what my g-grandfather and grandfather were, so I found it very interesting. Cheers Colette

Found under the same name this is brief this evening but I will fill out more on the said guild but in reference to what is available National Museum Md. List of Watch and Clockmakers in Ireland from 1688-1844 NL Pos 204 A List of Irish watch and Clockmakers by Geraldine Fennell Nl Ir 681 f 10 So perhaps a mail to the Dublin Library which has a website may get you a lookup, I cannot guarantee you anything but suggest places to look. Cheers for Now Cara I use BullGuard Spamfilter to keep my inbox clean. It is completely free: www.bullguard.com/freespamfilter

In a message dated 10/19/2010 8:09:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: This message is attached to the records on the Irish Genealogy.ie site ........"The church register page containing this record has not yet been imaged". Does anybody know when they might be imaged? I can't find the answer on their site. Colette You just have to be patient and keep looking ... Joan

_http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/Ireland-birth-records.html_ (http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/Ireland-birth-records.html) _http://www.irelandgenweb.com/_ (http://www.irelandgenweb.com/) 1864 birth Index -- Scroll down

Harness makers did belong to the` same guild as coachmakers. Cheers Cara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Doyle" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:01 AM Subject: [IRL-DUBLIN] Coachbuilders > Hi Colette, Coachbuilders were actually like joiners are today. They built > traps ( open family transport), carriages etc, all pulled by horses. One > horse per trap, two horses per carriage, 4 horses for 1st class citizens, > who would take the family to the shops. The Guild was akin to a union. Pay > to join + only accesable to Protestants plus a verified trade. > Harnessmakers were a different trade alltogether. > A harnessmaker was just that + usually had a small shop akin to a booth > newsagent today. > Blacksmiths had one labourer or Tboy (because tea-making was in his job > description). He held the horses foot when the smith hooved it. He had his > business in a garage-like shop. > If you think of what a garage looks like at the side of a house, halve it, > take away the shutters+the house, of course. Then you have a Blacksmith's > Forge. > Maggie > > > > ****************************** > ATTENTION TO ALL:- Do any of you ever get to the bottom of this mail?, and > do you remove the details that do not apply to your mail and change the > SUBJECT LINE for best useage of ARCHIVED MATERIALS. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > I use BullGuard Spamfilter to keep my inbox clean. It is completely free: www.bullguard.com/freespamfilter

I'm still looking for ways to figure out if the Thomas Hughes buried in Glasnevin in 1868 is my gggrandfather. I'm wondering if people in Ireland during that period of time had wills and where I would have to look to see if he had one. Thanks in advance for any help. Sue

Hi Shirley By site do you mean this list? (just wondered if you meant a web site of some sort?) If you mean the list(s) The best way to use them is to post with a sensible subject line (ie Joseph HOLLAND circa XXXX Belfast birth sought) Then give as much detail of what you have already, where you have looked and what it is you are looking for, to many posts to lists assume the readers know as much as the poster :-) I see you have many posts in the archives, too many to check individually so I would suggest reposting the story so far, include the dates (years) and places of people found to date Ireland has its own special research problems from afar but things are gradually improving as they are elsewhere Its not that long ago we had no census online or any access to births, marriages or deaths etc without traveling and joining this or that society so things are getting better The name HOLLAND does not appear to be a an Irish one, using the following http://worldnames.publicprofiler.org/ Shows a heavy concentration in England and most in Ireland in the South West area For England specific in 1881 & 1998 try http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/ (both above should be treated with a certain amount of caution but may lead you to other places to look at) Have you done a thorough google search of late? There are quite a number using "Joseph HOLLAND" Belfast, including the following http://www.curiousfox.com/history_Ire/antrim_8.html Have you checked online books, trade directories etc Its well worth checking out all available online newspapers, including Australia, New Zealand, USA as well as the UK , many stories and announcements made their way around the globe for one reason or another The only place I have found a mention of my g.g.g.grandmothers death (in Middlesex 1866) is in an Australian Newspaper (a son emigrated there) Have you tried familysearchbeta ? or record search pilot? >From fsbeta Name Joseph Holland Registration District Belfast Event Type DEATHS Registration Quarter and Year Oct - Dec 1900 Estimated Birth Year 1839 Age (at Death) 61 Mother's Maiden Name Film Number 101601 Volume Number 1 Page Number 305 Digital Folder Number 4201705 Image Number 00238 Things are being added regularly, don't forget to check the collections as not everything is indexed Its always worth checking all newly released databases such as the Probate Calendars on Ancestry, although for England and Wales there are many Irish connections within HOLLAND and keyword Belfast finds for example William John Holland 1938 3 Jun 1912 Armagh,Ireland Elizabeth Holland 1924 16 Dec 1923 Belfast, Antrim, Down, Ireland Joseph Holland 1926 23 Sep 1925 Down, Ireland Martha Holland 1926 28 Jan 1926 Armagh, Ireland John Holland 1934 13 Mar 1934 Belfast, Antrim, Down, Ireland So all is not lost, just perhaps hiding from you <g> Of course if by "site" you meant something else, the above may be of no use Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >I have been researching in Ireland for over 20years. I keep seeing on this >site that there is a specific way to use this site and am still unable to >figure it out. > > By now all of Ireland knows that I am researching the Joseph Holland > family of Belfast. In all the 20+ years there has not been one person, > except from England, that has said they might be remotely related to this > family. I am at a dead end and not any results in even beginning to see a > break. Had a uncle that died in Dublin 1916, his dau was living in Cork > at time of his death-absolutely nothing else on him. > > Just musing and asking. Thanks for a reply of any. > Shirley

It's not a common name in Dublin. I've only ever known one family named Holland. The father was a Sargent in the Army, Griffith Barracks, I think. His nickname was Dutch. They lived in an Army house on the North Circular Road. If they are related to you, please email me off list. Maggie

Ah you maybe right. All I can say for sure is that in the 1960s, when part of the railway line needed to be replaced at Booterstown, my father worked laying the sleepers. A couple of his workpals showed up at our house on occasion. When my mother asked if they layed sleepers, they said they were carriage builders. Maggie