CJMax-- I enjoyed your sharing of the Land Reform acts and perceptions of your Scottish people and Protestant landowners. I love to hear the transition of history in Ireland from this list. As an American, I am lacking some in the Irish history that would tell the stories of my people. I would like to make one wee comment regarding the 1920's when the tenants were allowed to purchase the land they occupied. Please consider that, before the advent of the protestant Scottish and English Landlords, the Catholic tenant farmers, in many cases, were forced to pay rent on land once held by their own families. So the fact that they were, generations later, allowed to purchase this same land, is not exactly a magnanimous gift. Cheers from sunny buy cool California, Candi Mccarthy

Candi, The history I was taught is that the Gaelic order collasped following the battle of Kinsale in 1601, From then onward came the foreign 'settlers' principally the Cromwellian land grabbers. But prior to this battle, all land was held in trust under Brehon laws for all sept members by the chiefs of the many Septs [Clans] So, there were no tenant farmers before the advent of the foreigners. Pádraig Mór An Sean Ghabair ***** Replies to the LIST ONLY - Thanks ***** ----- Original Message ----- From: <Clzz@aol.com> To: <IRL-CORK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 3:33 PM Subject: Land Reform Acts > > CJMax-- > > I enjoyed your sharing of the Land Reform acts and perceptions of your > Scottish people and Protestant landowners. I love to hear the transition of > history in Ireland from this list. As an American, I am lacking some in the Irish > history that would tell the stories of my people. I would like to make one wee > comment regarding the 1920's when the tenants were allowed to purchase the > land they occupied. > > Please consider that, before the advent of the protestant Scottish and > English Landlords, the Catholic tenant farmers, in many cases, were forced to pay > rent on land once held by their own families. So the fact that they were, > generations later, allowed to purchase this same land, is not exactly a > magnanimous gift. > > > > Cheers from sunny buy cool California, > > Candi Mccarthy

I fear you will have to go back a bit farther in history to the Norman Invasion, for at that point land technically belonged to the king to give out or keep for himself. Between the Anglo-Norman Invasion and the Cromwellian settlements, the Normans really did not "control" much of the land except the lower elevations - the good farm and grazing land. A few of the Irish chiefs did stick to land holding per the Brehon laws but many copied the English and kept the land for themselves and their descendants. Actually even before this feudalism had begun in Ireland. The wealthy men held the land and cattle and it was almost impossible for anyone poor to move up in the social ranks. Therefore the sons of the chiefs usually got the good land and most of it. Janet On 11/28/05, Pádraig Mór Ó Gealagáin <padraigogealagain@rogers.com> wrote: > > Candi, > > The history I was taught is that the Gaelic order collasped following the > battle of Kinsale in 1601, From then onward came the foreign 'settlers' > principally the Cromwellian land grabbers. > > But prior to this battle, all land was held in trust under Brehon laws for > all sept members by the chiefs of the many Septs [Clans] So, there were no > tenant farmers before the advent of the foreigners. > > Pádraig Mór > An Sean Ghabair > > ***** Replies to the LIST ONLY - Thanks ***** > >