Hello Dolores, Sorry about the slip up of course it's 1864. You may very well find yours inconsistent but that hardly means you can include all of Ireland. I have encountered the same problem with Eng. and Wales as I said. I can assure you from my experience that it was illiteracy compare marriage certs and entries.....the old x. was very prevalent.As for rounding up and down that was only used in the UK census 1841 as for the US i do not know, Regards,Kevin. > > Sorry I offended , but after 25 years of research every document and census I have on my lines their ages never agree. Civil Registration started in 1864 not 1868. I was merely speaking from my experience even up to 1940's. Dolores > ----- Original Message ----- > From: kevin > Date: Friday, September 22, 2006 6:42 pm > Subject: Re: Irish Birthdates > To: irl-cork@rootsweb.com > > > I'm sorry I don't get worked up about much.....but I can't let > > sweeping statements go unchallenged. To say "I've been doing > > this a long time and have come to accept the Irish didn't know > > their age or date of birth" is quite ridiculous and to be honest > > insulting.In the US and UK they did? True pre 1868 the official > > records arent there and I can understand your frustration on > > finding records but making sweeping statements in a field of > > history is ridiculous.I again say....if someone didnt know their > > age it was due to illiteracy and nothing to do with the Irish > > person as a whole. Best regards,Kevin, Co Cork. > > > > > > > > Robin I have been doing this a long time and have come to > > accept that the Irish didn't know their age or date of birth. > > What really got me recently, working on a family in Jersey City > > the siblings claim they were born in NY or NJ when I have one > > birth cert. from England and several of them on the passenger > > list immigrating claiming they were born in Ireland. I'll never > > learn where they came from in Ireland. Dolores New York > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: RobinVanM@aol.com > > > Date: Friday, September 22, 2006 4:41 pm > > > Subject: Irish Birthdates > > > To: IRL-CORK@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > I was surprised to find wildly differing birthdates for > > Irish > > > > immigrant > > > > ancestors, but Radford and Betit's excellent Genealogist's > > Guide > > > > to Discovering > > > > Your Irish Ancestors said they often didn't know the year > > they > > > > were born. It > > > > just wasn't important in rural Ireland. Radford and Betit > > said > > > > Irish > > > > immigrants sometimes were 5, 10, or 15 years off their > > actual > > > > birth year, although > > > > the day and date were often more accurate. From censuses, > > > > tombstones, local > > > > histories, etc. I found birth years for an my Irish > > ancestors > > > > would range from > > > > 9 to 17 years, like 1813 to 1830. When one applied for a > > Civil > > > > War pension, > > > > the pension examiner said he "could not tell his age. We > > > > should judge him > > > > 52." Combine that with the fact that they kept using the > > same > > > > first names > > > > over and over (there were five Michael McMahons in a New > > > > Hampshire town of 1700 > > > > people), and it's no wonder we have such a hard time finding > > > > them. > > > > Robin in Maryland > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL- > > CORK- > > > > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK- > > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > www.ancestralservices.co.uk > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property > > Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK- > > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > www.ancestralservices.co.uk ----------------------------------------------------------------- Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts

Hi, All- I've found the same discrepancy in ages with my family, even as recently as two generations back. An example with my ggrandparents - My ggrandfather, Thomas Reed, was listed as 33 in the 1855 NY State Census. In 1860, he's still 33! In 1875, he's 45. In 1880, he's 60.He died in 1887, and age was given as 68. My ggrandmother, on the other hand, stayed consistent with her birth being in 1830, until hr death certificate -she died in Sept., 1910, and was listed as being 74 yrs, 9 mo., which makes her born in 1836. However, in the 1910 census, taken in July, two months before she died, she was listed as 80. Ain't families fun?? Ann

> I can assure you from my experience that it was illiteracy, compare marriage certs and entries.....the old x. was very prevalent...> Yes, for sure there are nearly all signed by the mark 'X', but I can not believe that such a mark meant it was always a result of illiteracy on the part of the informants. Consider this probable scenario of a time before the invention of photo-copiers and computer digitisation as to how the process of registrations might have been accomplished: The informants of a birth or death, or marriage (in which case the required form was completed by the officiating priest or minister) reported the event in person at the local registration office where they made their statements which was duly recorded by the local registrar or one of his staff, and then signed by the informants - if they could write their name. These individual declarations made at local registration offices were then sent to the town wherein the area Superintendent's registration office was located. There they were transcribed onto a large folio, and , at the end of that quarter year, were sent as a batch to the General Registry Office (GRO) Dublin, where they were again transcribed alphabetically in a large folio when all the original individual quarterly returns from the many Superintendents' registration districts were received. In consequence, when one obtains a copy from the GRO, or a local Superintendents' district office, it is understandable that the original signature of informants who could write, could not possibly appear on such a copy. So, that office at the time of issuing a certificate, the clerk had to write the name of the informing party and place an 'x' on the signature line over the original informants names. (I had occasion a few years ago to visit the Superintendents office in Limerick city and witnessed the clerk transcribe the information I had requested from a large folio onto a blank form of certificate). If the above scenario is what happened then one will understand the missing signature and its substitution by an 'x' at a time when no one even dreamt about a device that would make 'de facto' copies. I have copied this to other lists in the hope that someone more informed might add or detract from my supposition on the matter. ***** Reply to the LIST ONLY - Please ***** ***** Thanks for your consideration ***** Pádraig Mór, An Sean Gabhar ----- Original Message ----- From: "kevin " <kevinmcc59@eircom.net> To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 7:18 PM Subject: Re: Irish Birthdates > Hello Dolores, Sorry about the slip up of course it's 1864. You may very > well find yours inconsistent but that hardly means you can include all of > Ireland. I have encountered the same problem with Eng. and Wales as I > said. > I can assure you from my experience that it was illiteracy > compare marriage certs and entries.....the old x. was very prevalent.As > for rounding up and down that was only used in the UK census 1841 as for > the US i do not know, Regards,Kevin. > >> >> Sorry I offended , but after 25 years of research every document and >> census I have on my lines their ages never agree. Civil Registration >> started in 1864 not 1868. I was merely speaking from my experience even >> up to 1940's. Dolores