I would like to reply to Jill's excellent post.The main thing in our research is we keep an open mind without sweeping generalisations . I am living in Ireland but I was born in England and grew up in Wales. My Father was from Ireland and from a devout Catholic family.I was baptised at the age of 3.... what the reason for that was I do not know but thats the story. As for children being baptised almost immediately ...yes that it is true. But obviously there were exceptions as my baptism shows. If we are to get into the social history of our ancestors we have to take everything into consideration. In the mid 1800's where did our ancestors learn to read and write ..... there were the hedgerow schools but as Jill says look at the 1901 and 1911 census for Ireland ..... it tells you if they were literate and what language they spoke.Have you wondered if your ancestors even spoke English? Many had Irish as an only language! This would obv. add to the confusion. One more thing to think about..... I was lucky in my Irish ancestry as an expert from Boston ( her husband is a 3rd cousin to me) researched my McCoramck ancestry and has a book in the National Library of Ireland.I have all of the details back to 1806....and I mean all! (lucky me) In the records I have seen on numerous occassions where a child has died and the following child has been given the name of the dead child (this was common in Eng. and Wales too)Perhaps this can be added to the confusion too..... parents with 7-8 children trying to remember when someone was born exactly......add to that potential illiteracy (you have to admit most were) no wonder there was so much confusion.I again make the point....I have researched Ireland , England and Wales for a long time .....and the same confusion is found everywhere.Have a good weekend,Kevin McCormack,Co Cork,Ireland. > > Here's one for you.....for records found in mid 1800's in South West Cork, Ireland, I have a family member who's baptismal record was dated a few months earlier then the later found birth record. > Please correct me if I am wrong but I believe at one time, it was customary for children of Catholic families to be baptized with in 24 hours of birth. That's fine if the crops weren't being harvested or turf didn't need turning Keep in mind that transportation wasn't always readily available for the farmers that lived on the far outskirts. > My discussion with Father put in perspective for me. He said Ireland was a very difficult time for 99% of it's people in earlier times (I am researching the 1700-1800's). Giving birth, never mind the high mortality rate for new born, being able to put food on the table each night and getting through the other normal everyday hardships were hard enough (and it was here in the US too for many). The Priests knew that the babies were older, even though it was recorded as born a few days prior. Yes it was frowned upon but they understood the families situation and the time period. > I agree with Kevin, it's not just the Irish. Look at your census research or family Bible recordings. > The only correct birth date for my grandmother is her birth record-1887. She would never have told people that she was 3 years younger then my grandfather. Her social security records and her drivers license didn't even have the correct year. But she was consistent....1900 on EVERYTHING...even her memorial stone. LOL. > My thought...the older the record is, the more chance for it to be not accurate. > For me...... I am content that I can find the records of my early ancestors here and in Ireland. And if the records are a bit off.....so be it. > kevin <kevinmcc59@eircom.net> wrote: > I'm sorry I don't get worked up about much.....but I can't let sweeping statements go unchallenged. To say "I've been doing this a long time and have come to accept the Irish didn't know their age or date of birth" is quite ridiculous and to be honest insulting.In the US and UK they did? True pre 1868 the official records arent there and I can understand your frustration on finding records but making sweeping statements in a field of history is ridiculous.I again say....if someone didnt know their age it was due to illiteracy and nothing to do with the Irish person as a whole. Best regards,Kevin, Co Cork. > > > > > Robin I have been doing this a long time and have come to accept that the Irish didn't know their age or date of birth. What really got me recently, working on a family in Jersey City the siblings claim they were born in NY or NJ when I have one birth cert. from England and several of them on the passenger list immigrating claiming they were born in Ireland. I'll never learn where they came from in Ireland. Dolores New York > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: RobinVanM@aol.com > > Date: Friday, September 22, 2006 4:41 pm > > Subject: Irish Birthdates > > To: IRL-CORK@rootsweb.com > > > > > I was surprised to find wildly differing birthdates for Irish > > > immigrant > > > ancestors, but Radford and Betit's excellent Genealogist's Guide > > > to Discovering > > > Your Irish Ancestors said they often didn't know the year they > > > were born. It > > > just wasn't important in rural Ireland. Radford and Betit said > > > Irish > > > immigrants sometimes were 5, 10, or 15 years off their actual > > > birth year, although > > > the day and date were often more accurate. From censuses, > > > tombstones, local > > > histories, etc. I found birth years for an my Irish ancestors > > > would range from > > > 9 to 17 years, like 1813 to 1830. When one applied for a Civil > > > War pension, > > > the pension examiner said he "could not tell his age. We > > > should judge him > > > 52." Combine that with the fact that they kept using the same > > > first names > > > over and over (there were five Michael McMahons in a New > > > Hampshire town of 1700 > > > people), and it's no wonder we have such a hard time finding > > > them. > > > Robin in Maryland > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK- > > > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > www.ancestralservices.co.uk > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property > Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > www.ancestralservices.co.uk ----------------------------------------------------------------- Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts

Kevin has made the first mention I have seen of hedgerow schools. I visited Cork and Waterford when I began my family history research and someone mentioned that the Irish (oppressed by the British) were denied a formal education (hence their illiteracy, no doubt) and that teachers would travel from village to village, usually on a bicycle, and teach the children "secretly" - i.e. behind hedgerows! We should not forget this era in Irish history. Irish people are and were resourceful and would take whatever steps were necessary to achieve their ends. My ancestor, for example, was pressed into the British navy from Youghal in 1803 (to fight Napoleon) and one would assume, at the age of 18, he would have receive little basic education, but he obviously resolved to make the best of a bad deal and educated himself within the naval environment and elevated himself to the rank of Master (I believe the highest rank available to a rating, as opposed to an officer). He subsequently earned himself a place in history by being the first human being to actually sight and chart a part of the, until then, elusive southern continent! Note the Bransfield Strait, Bransfield Island and Mount Bransfield on the map of Antarctica! Does anyone have any more information about hedgerow schools? My ancestor (1785-1852) would probably have received his basic education in this way. Sheila Bransfield MA FRGS Kent, UK