Ron, I think they would marry before coming out for sure especially if she was pregnant. I had a family, named Buckley who came out from Ireland. There were four children and only one could read and write, one of the girls. I don't understand either how one would be literate and the others not, except that maybe she took a liking to books and the others didn't. This family were also farmers. Kaye www.bananatv.com/familytreechecklist.htm

My ancestor, Thomas Parker, lived in Billerough East, Kilworth Parish, County Cork. He was born circa 1820 married around 1843 and had his first of 8 children starting 1844. Would there have been any sort of school for his children in that area of Cork? If there was some sort of formal education there, would there be any records? Regards, Bill O'Loughlin

That set of ggrandparents were Thomas Reed (circa 1825) and Catherine Pendergast (b. 1830) We're not at all sure where the Reeds came from other than what was defined as the "Irish Free State". The Pendergasts came from Mayo. Another set of gg's were Michael Quinn (1840) -b. Northern Ireland, and Katharine Hughes (1842) Irish Free State. Yet another set - Patrick Howe (1834)-b. Galway, and Nellie Doherty (1838) - Mass. Jeremiah McCarty/McCarthy - (1813)-b. Cork and Ellen Barry (1813) -b. Cork Any links? Ann

I also have ggrandparents who came over from Ireland, and were farmers to begin with. They married here in the US -neither could read or write when they arrived, but my ggrandfather learned, as was evident on the land deeds that were signed ( and there were many!) He signed his name, she "made her mark" -an "x". In all the censuses (1855-1910), she was listed as not being able to read or write. All of their children were educated, and probably helped her with business papers, etc. after my ggrandfather died in 1887. I think that she was able to read and write Gaelic, though - she was 21 when she came over. A lot of the Irish were unable to read and write in any language due to the Penal Laws that were in place from the 1500's to the 1800's. Mix that with the famine, and the struggle to just stay alive, and you have to wonder how any of them got anywhere. Ann

Ron, I have just the opposite findings...ALL of my forbears-born 1834-1871 in Ireland were able to read and write (having gathered their signatures from various documents and having also inherited a few written letters)Most of them were listed as "labourers". The National School sytem had been in effect since the late 1830s and before that there were many hedge schools scattered about the country. Nancy --- Ron Lanning <ron@ykk.co.nz> wrote: > Hi just wondering if any fellow Researchers , may have an opinion or > indeed > have come across the following situation . > > My GGGrandfather was Married in April 12 1846 In St Finbarrs , Cork > City , > on His Marriage entry his Father`s occupation is shown as a Labourer as > was > His Bride`s ( Margaret Mahoney) Fathers occupation was also shown as a > Labourer .On their Marriage Cert Margaret used an X to sign Her name > whereas > Nathaniel did not. > > What i`m thinking is this it`s seems dubious to me that a Labourer from > a > Labourers Family as was his Brides Family , would Marry in St Finbarrs > Church before they emmigrated ( His Bride was 3 months Pregnant at the > time) > , it seems to me they would`t bother , and they would be to Poor. > The other thing was Nathaniel not using an X by his name, i wouldn`t > think > he would be able to read or write if he was a Labourer from a Labourers > Family at that time. > I`m thinking that the Families were from a Farming background , not a > Labouring background. > > Any Opinions Welcome !. > > Regards > Ron Lanning > > > ==== IRL-CORK Mailing List ==== > Threaded archives for IRL-CORK can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/irl-cork > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > ____________________________________________________ Sell on Yahoo! Auctions – no fees. Bid on great items. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Hi i have found out my GGGrandfather Nathaniel Lannin Married a Margaret Mahoney on 12 th April 1846 in the Church of St Finbarrs in the Cathedral of St Barry in Cork City. On the Certificate they have given their Place of Residence as 129 Bandon Road . Hopefully someone can Help me with the following, How could i find out anything about 129 Bandon Road ( what was there at the time), perhaps one of the Directories may be the best?. I have assumed that 129 Bandon Road was in Cork City , perhaps it wasn`t . Any Help is Appreciated. Regards Ron Lanning

Hi Ron, This will show Bandon Rd. on a map of Cork City: http://www.corkcity.ie/maps/maps/30.html Scroll down to the end of the map for Bandon Rd. and you also see a red triangular building in the top right corner which indicates the Cathedral. I think there is a directory for Cork City for some year in the 1840s but I don't believe it listed every house. Other directories were published in the 1860s and on a fairly regular basis from 1875/76. Quite a few of the old houses on Bandon Rd. still stand but I am not sure if 129 is among them. Next time I pass that way I will check. Regards, Brendan Jones > How could i find out anything about 129 Bandon Road ( what was there at the > time), perhaps one of the Directories may be the best?. > I have assumed that 129 Bandon Road was in Cork City , perhaps it wasn`t . > Any Help is Appreciated. > > Regards > Ron Lanning >

Dear Ron, I can't tell you much about the history of Bandon Road, but there is one in Cork City. It is a segment of road that comes in from the south west of the city I believe. It's where Magazine Rd and Glasheen Rd merge, become Bandon Road and then becomes Barrock St. Try this website and then just zero in on Cork City and you should find it. _http://www.multimap.com_ (http://www.multimap.com) Mary Beth Kelly

Hello Listers, I have received a marriage certificate in Queensland, Australia for one of my ancestors, John Tobin. It lists his birthplace as Kilvilogil, Cork, Ireland. The problem is I cannot find a reference to this placename and think it is a spelling mistake. Can anyone shed some light on the real spelling? Also would like to here from anyone who is related to John Tobin who would have been born around 1854, and his parent's names were John Tobin (occupation - Millwright) and Johanna Dollowall (also think this might be a spelling mistake as I cannot find reference to it either). Thanks in advance, Tracey.

I'm glad our information was helpful, Jeanette. The two textbooks for the class were John Grenham's TRACING YOUR IRISH ANCESTORS (2nd edition) and DISCOVERING YOUR IRISH ANCESTORS by Dwight A. Radford & Kyle J. Betit. I've also found that the Research Outline for Ireland on the FHL website (www.familysearch.org) is a great help. We both seem to have the problem of an ancestor who left Ireland long ago. It's a headache, but the search is fun, mentally challenging, plus a mystery to be solved, and I can't resist a mystery. Jan >From: "Jeanette Lee" <JeanetteLee@bigpond.com> >Hi , >I would like to thank Jan and Nancy for all the imput concerning the >resources for reseaching in Ireland. > >Over the years I have dilligently followed every lead for locating my >ancestors without success, most left before registration.I had just about >given up hope of ever finding any trace of them . > >By following Jan & Nancy's emails I have located all the references for >ordering the reels. Now I feel some I might get somewhere. > >The Samford University course sounds marvellous. > >Once again many thanks >Jeanette Lee >Western Australia

Hi , I would like to thank Jan and Nancy for all the imput concerning the resources for reseaching in Ireland. Over the years I have dilligently followed every lead for locating my ancestors without success, most left before registration.I had just about given up hope of ever finding any trace of them . By following Jan & Nancy's emails I have located all the references for ordering the reels. Now I feel some I might get somewhere. The Samford University course sounds marvellous. Once again many thanks Jeanette Lee Western Australia

Attempting tp locate information on family of George Callahan, born Mar 1868 (registered in R.C. Parish of Brosna). Last known contact with family was in early 1940's with a daughter (Mary?) in Toureenfineen, Cork. Regards, Richard

Cathy at vimbriani@msn.com writes: << It is hard to make out writing but has anyone heard of Cloukonam, County Clare or Derrylahn-I do not know a county. >> Cathy, I am going to guess that the Co. Clare location might be one of the dozen townlands which start with "Cloghaun-"......... but the various endings don't look too promising. You don't have any further information which might help locate the place, do you? Such as locations of relatives, descendants, etc.? The other location is simpler - and more complicated. It is probably Derrylahan, and there are two dozen of them in Ireland. Just go to www.seanruad.com and enter Derrylahan in the townland name and hit the submit button. Three of the Derrylahan townlands are in Co. Cork - if that's of interest. None in Co. Clare, though. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Pete Schermerhorn, in the glorious Berkshire hills of western Massachusetts

I emailed this to Candi on how I made use of the Hayes books (MANUSCRIPT SOURCES FOR THE HISTORY OF IRISH CIVILIZATION), so I thought I'd also post it to the list in case anyone else needs the info. First, I copied the Hayes pages from the "Persons" book (L-O) for MURPHY. There were six sheets. When I got home from Samford U., I highlighted all the MURPHY items that I thought might pertain to my ancestors based on what I already knew about them. Here's an example of how some of the items look in Hayes: Murphy, family of: Genealogical Office Ms. 161, p. 45: Pedigree of Murphy (O'Murphy) of Portugal and Tenerife, c. 1600-1736 Murphy, family of: Genealogical Office Ms. 164, p.60: Pedigree of Murphy of Callan, Co. Kilkenny, c. 1650-c.1700 and so forth Next I went to the FHL catalogue and looked for "Manuscripts in the Genealogical Office Of Ireland" under "Titles". When this came up, I checked for Ms #161 which turned out to be on Film #100122 and Ms #164 which is on Film #100123. I ordered these films from my local FHC, but they haven't come in yet, so I don't know if I've hit pay dirt or not. However, there are other Pedigrees I can order if these don't pan out, plus items listed under my MURPHYs in the Hayes that aren't Pedigrees. I'll order those later if the FHL has them. I hope this helps someone who is floundering a bit on Irish research. I'm still floundering somewhat, but David Rencher's class at Samford gave me a course of action to follow. It sure beats my original hit-or-miss plan. Jan in Miss. (where we are now preparing for Hurricane Dennis)

I have copies of draft registrations from WWI. It is hard to make out writing but has anyone heard of Cloukonam, County Clare or Derrylahn-I do not know a county. Appreciate any help. Cathy in Florida

I emailed this to Candi on how I made use of the Hayes books (MANUSCRIPT SOURCES FOR THE HISTORY OF IRISH CIVILIZATION), so I thought I'd also post it to the list in case anyone else needs the info. First, I copied the Hayes pages from the "Persons" book (L-O) for MURPHY. There were six sheets. When I got home from Samford U., I highlighted all the MURPHY items that I thought might pertain to my ancestors based on what I already knew about them. Here's an example of how some of the items look in Hayes: Murphy, family of: Genealogical Office Ms. 161, p. 45: Pedigree of Murphy (O'Murphy) of Portugal and Tenerife, c. 1600-1736 Murphy, family of: Genealogical Office Ms. 164, p.60: Pedigree of Murphy of Callan, Co. Kilkenny, c. 1650-c.1700 and so forth Next I went to the FHL catalogue and looked for "Manuscripts in the Genealogical Office Of Ireland" under "Titles". When this came up, I checked for Ms #161 which turned out to be on Film #100122 and Ms #164 which is on Film #100123. I ordered these films from my local FHC, but they haven't come in yet, so I don't know if I've hit pay dirt or not. However, there are other Pedigrees I can order if these don't pan out, plus items listed under my MURPHYs in the Hayes that aren't Pedigrees. I'll order those later if the FHL has them. I hope this helps someone who is floundering a bit on Irish research. I'm still floundering somewhat, but David Rencher's class at Samford gave me a course of action to follow. It sure beats my original hit-or-miss plan. Jan in Miss. (where we are now preparing for Hurricane Dennis)

Forwarded in the interest of Genealogical Research in Canada. So, Canadian members, get off your Butts and do something about it now! Pádraig Mór [ An Sean-Ghabhar - Milis agus Dilis!] [The Old Goat - Sweet and Faithful !] **** Please Reply Only to the List **** ----- Original Message ----- > "ann ritchie" <sawomri@mb.sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:42CD5721.222AEF31@mb.sympatico.ca... > >This message is posted here in an attempt to reach as many Canadians > possible involved in genealogical research. > Just when the problem with the release of the 1911census has > been resolved, another seems to rearing its ugly head. > Canada Post is in the process of preparing its new budget to take effect > March 1, 2006. One of the changes is that libraries will no longer have a > special postal rate to ship materials by mail on Inter-Library loans. > The example given to me was a 4" x 7" x 3/4" paperback book which can > currently go out on Inter-Library loan at a cost of 87 cents will, effective > March 1, 2006 will cost $7.44 !!! > There will be very few libraries able to absorb this very large increase. > My local library has already decided that there will be no inter-library loan > available once the new rate comes into effect, as they cannot afford the extra > costs. > Lack of Inter-Library loans will not only affect those of us doing genealogy, > but also students, researchers, and every other person who simply wishes to > read a book that is not available at their local library. > This is supposed to be the information age, but not every library has > all needed information, not everything is available on the internet > and not every home as a personal computer. Everyone will be affected > regardless of whether they live in a rural or urban areas. > Once again it is necessary to email our members of parliament, the > Prime Minister, Paul Martin ; the minister responsible for Canada Post, > John McCallum ; the minister for Canadian Heritage, Liza Frulla and > your local federal member of parliament. > In this case, because most libraries also receive funding from the provinces > and city and municipal governments, they should also be contacted. > Canada Post will finalize their budget on Sept. 1, 2005, so there is > some urgency in showing how much opposition there is to this increase. > They would probably be happier if this proposed change did not become > public knowledge, until they can say it's too late for them to do anything, so > send your letters and e-mails as soon as possible. A letter to the editor of > your local newspaper might also bring this to the attention of more people > Please pass this information on to any person or group you feel will be affected. Sometimes it takes a lot of voices to make them hear. > > E-mail addresses for Paul Martin: Martin.P@parl.gc.ca > or pm@pm.gc.ca > John McCallum: McCallum.J@parl.gc.ca > Liza Frulla: Frulla.L@parl.gc.ca > The addresses for your other federal members of parliament can be found at: > http://tinyurl.com/bexzy > A. Ritchie

I think you're exactly right, Nancy, that "AN INVENTORY OF GENEALOGICAL SOURCES IN THE IRISH COLLECTION OF THE FHL" is the Frank Smith Inventory. Thanks for clarifying this. >Let me know if you end up using this and of what interest it may hold. I certainly will use it and let you know when I do, though I wonder if the rest of the list wants to read this. Should we do it off-line? Jan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 7/5/05 at 1:05 PM nancy c wrote: >Thanks for the reply Jan...I guess I'll find out about the 'places' when I >start to order the films.... > >As for your query re "AN INVENTORY OF GENEALOGICAL SOURCES IN THE IRISH >COLLECTION OF THE FHL" >I believe this to be "SMITH's INVENTORY OF GENEALOGICAL SOURCES: IRELAND" > >The following is from the LDS site: > >Stmnt.Resp. compiled by the staff and volunteers of the British Reference >Unit of the Family History Library ; Frank Smith, project co-ordinator. >Authors Smith, Frank, 1917-1990 (Added Author) >Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Family History Department. >British Reference Unit (Main Author) > >Notes Contents: v. 1, pt. 1. Ireland general (subject) -- v. 1, pt. 2. >Ireland general (range of years) -- v. 2. Antrim -- v. 3. Armagh -- v. 4. >Carlow -- v. 5. Cavan and Clare -- v. 6. Cork -- v. 7. Donegal -- v. 8. >Down -- v. 9. Dublin -- v. 10. Fermanagh -- v. 11. Galway -- v. 12. Kerry >-- v. 13. Kildare -- v. 14. Kilkenny -- v. 15. Leitrim -- v. 16. Leix -- >v. 17. Limerick -- v. 18. Londonderry -- v. 19. Longford -- v. 20. Louth >-- v. 21. Mayo -- v. 22. Meath -- v. 23. Monaghan -- v. 24. Offaly -- v. >25. Roscommon -- v. 26. Sligo -- v. 27. Tipperary -- v. 28. Tyrone -- v. >29. Waterford -- v. 30. Westmeath -- v. 31. Wexford -- v. 32. Wicklow. >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- >An analytical guide to select material, such as archaeological or >historical series, housed in the British Reference collection of the >Family History Library. Arranged by years and subjects. Patrons using this >material will find new items of genealogical information not specifically >listed in the Family History Library catalog. Subjects are again repeated >for which a range of years is known or given. The years from 1900 back to >1500 are divided into 50-year periods. From 1500 to Saxon times (1066), >the increments are in 100 year periods. Any subject covering more than the >block of years shown is repeated in the appropriate blocks. > >Let me know if you end up using this and of what interest it may hold. > >Thanks, > >Nancy > > >--- Jan Dean <murdermostcozy@earthlink.net> wrote: > >> >> Nancy, the Hayes volumes I used were "Persons" and "Subjects", so I'm >> not >> familiar with the "Places" volumes and their arrangement. >> >> The Index at the beginning of each of the "Subjects" volumes makes >> interesting reading in itself as it opens up new ideas for research. (If >> I >> remember correctly, the Index is repeated in each of the "Subjects" >> volumes, so you don't have to go back and forth between the books which >> are >> quite large and heavy.) One of the subjects that I concentrated on was >> "Irish Abroad" which covered various places the Irish emigrated to, i.e. >> Irish Abroad: Spain, Irish Abroad: Gibraltar, Irish Abroad: Portugal, >> Irish >> Abroad: West Indies as these were the areas my ancestors settled. I feel >> "Education" would almost certainly be in the "Subect" volume. >> >> Here are the three bibliographic references for Richard J. Hayes >> (editor) >> in my handouts: >> >> 1) MANUSCRIPT SOURCES FOR THE HISTORY OF IRISH CIVILIZATION, 11 volumes, >> 1965 >> >> 2) SUPPLEMENTS TO MANUSCRIPT SOURCES FOR THE HISTORY OF IRISH >> CIVILIZATION, >> 3 volumes, 1979 >> >> 3)MANUSCRIPT SOURCES FOR THE HISTORY OF IRISH CIVILIZATION, ARTICLES IN >> PERIODICALS, 9 volumes, 1970 >> >> I didn't use either #2 or #3. I don't think Samford had copies. >> >> Another source that David had in the handouts was AN INVENTORY OF >> GENEALOGICAL SOURCES IN THE IRISH COLLECTION OF THE FHL, SLC which is >> microfiched and supplements Richard Hayes' MANUSCRIPT SOURCES FOR THE >> HISTORY OF IRISH CIVILIZATION. However, I can't find this listed in the >> FHL >> catalogue. Does anyone know what this is? >> >> Jan in Mississippi where we are under a tropical storm warning.

Foon123@aol.com asked: >Does anyone on this list have the web address for the Mallow Heritage >Center? Thank you very much! See http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlmahs/mherit.htm for an unofficial page listing their holdings as of a few years ago. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dennis Ahern | Mallow Archaeological & Historical Society Acton, Massachusetts | Mr. John Caplice, Dromore, Mallow, Co. Cork ahern@world.std.com | http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlmahs/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Nancy, the Hayes volumes I used were "Persons" and "Subjects", so I'm not familiar with the "Places" volumes and their arrangement. The Index at the beginning of each of the "Subjects" volumes makes interesting reading in itself as it opens up new ideas for research. (If I remember correctly, the Index is repeated in each of the "Subjects" volumes, so you don't have to go back and forth between the books which are quite large and heavy.) One of the subjects that I concentrated on was "Irish Abroad" which covered various places the Irish emigrated to, i.e. Irish Abroad: Spain, Irish Abroad: Gibraltar, Irish Abroad: Portugal, Irish Abroad: West Indies as these were the areas my ancestors settled. I feel "Education" would almost certainly be in the "Subect" volume. Here are the three bibliographic references for Richard J. Hayes (editor) in my handouts: 1) MANUSCRIPT SOURCES FOR THE HISTORY OF IRISH CIVILIZATION, 11 volumes, 1965 2) SUPPLEMENTS TO MANUSCRIPT SOURCES FOR THE HISTORY OF IRISH CIVILIZATION, 3 volumes, 1979 3)MANUSCRIPT SOURCES FOR THE HISTORY OF IRISH CIVILIZATION, ARTICLES IN PERIODICALS, 9 volumes, 1970 I didn't use either #2 or #3. I don't think Samford had copies. Another source that David had in the handouts was AN INVENTORY OF GENEALOGICAL SOURCES IN THE IRISH COLLECTION OF THE FHL, SLC which is microfiched and supplements Richard Hayes' MANUSCRIPT SOURCES FOR THE HISTORY OF IRISH CIVILIZATION. However, I can't find this listed in the FHL catalogue. Does anyone know what this is? Jan in Mississippi where we are under a tropical storm warning. On 7/5/05 at 7:44 AM nancy c wrote: >Hi Jan, > >Thanks for the post re Richard Hayes manuscript. It appears that the films >re Places are divided alphabetically. Volume 7: A-K; Volume 8:L-Z. Would >you order Vol 7 for Cork and then search for the civil parish or >townlands...or would you order Vol 8 and go directly for the civil parish >or townland that begins with the latter letters of the alphabet? > >As for Subjects...again the Volumes are arranged and divided by the >alphabet. Did the class give examples as to what type of subjects are to >be found of interest to the family historian? In particular, any re >education? > >Thanks for any clarification Jan, > >Nancy > > > Jan Dean <murdermostcozy@earthlink.net> wrote: > >> Candi asked me to report back on the Irish Research class at Samford >> University's IGHR which I attended in June. The class was wonderful and >> VERY intense just as John Geary said it would be. David Rencher taught >> us >> so much and was very personable. There's so much to absorb about Irish >> research that one person was taking the class for the third time. That >> made >> me feel better and not so overwhelmed. For a while, I was beginning to >> think I wasn't very bright. >> >> The Samford U. library is a treasure trove of information. It has the >> complete O'Casey collection. I wish I'd had more time to spend there, >> but >> maybe I can go back and stay a few days as it's only about a five hour >> drive from where I live. So far, using my notes, my favorite resource >> has >> been MANUSCRIPT SOURCES FOR THE HISTORY OF IRISH CIVILIZATION edited by >> Richard J. Hayes. I brought back lots of copies from it and am slowly >> working my way through them and ordering films from my local FHC. David >> Rencher stressed over and over the value of these books in Irish >> research >> and he was so right. The series of books are also available on film from >> the FHL. >> >> If you ever get a chance to attend any of the classes at the Samford >> IGHR >> in Birmingham, Alabama, take it! It's a super genealogical experience. >> And >> if anyone has any questions about the class or Samford, I'd be happy to >> try >> and answer them. >> >> Jan Dean in Mississippi >> >> >> >> ==== IRL-CORK Mailing List ==== >> RootsWeb, a user-supported enterprise http://www.rootsweb.com/ >> >> ============================== >> Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for >> ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx >> >> > > >NYC Irish Research Pages >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~nyirish/research.html > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail