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Dave There are PYNES in our Cork ancestry.(land owners). Lindseys of Peake married Pyne. If you think it so, I will look up chart for you. Have a look at www.radleysofcork.bigpondhosting.com for their relatives. Lorra ----- Original Message ----- From: <dmwilli20@aim.com> To: <IRL-cork@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 11:12 PM Subject: PYNE County Cork > Researching PYNE from Doneraile parish in county Cork and in Bellingham and Milford, MA USA > > Dave Williams > Marlborough, MA > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

In my previous posting I gave excerpts froman URL about this,oft-times controversial subject regarding copyrighted works. Now I am transcribing the body of a reply that I received 12 February, 1997 from Genealogical Office, Dublin: Dear Padraig O'Gealagain, "Your request for information on the arms appropriate to Galligan and O'Quinn has been referred to me for attention. According to Burke "The General Armory", 1884, no arms are recorderd for either Galligan, Gilligan or McGilligan. I enclose extracts dealing with Quinn and O'Quinn and also accounts from Woulfe, Sloinnte Gaedheal is Gall (Irish names and surnames) and find the Galligan is a distinct name from Gilligan or Quinn and no arms have been found on record as being appropriateto Galligan. It would be possible to apply for a grant of arms to the Chief Herald. There is no authority for the use of "The" in Irish genealogy or Heraldry. The leaders in the Clan [sic] were known by their surname, O'Neill, O'Donnell. and MacCarthy, etc. In answer to your final query no person is entitled officially to bear arms except under the terms of a grant from the former Ulster Office or from the Chief Herald. Yours sincerely Eilish Ellis (Mrs) " **************************************** The reason for my enquiry to the Genealogical office was two-fold: 1). To check tjhe authenticity of a Coat of Arms blazon on a delicate pottery plate which my wife brought back to me as a gift, from an Irish visit, 2). to check the reference in O'Hart's genealogies where Giolagain was shown as number (I forget) in the line of Ir and from whom decended Gillgan, and #3) to check on the validness of certain persons claiming to be Heads of Serfs using the title "The O'Neill" etc., etc. So, the above letter transcription answered those questions. But the key-words in the Coats of Arms reference are "entitled officially". I take that to mean you can buy a Family Crest, hang it in your Rec-room or where ever, but using it in an official capacity, such as on your business or personal mail could invite a lawsuit from the official owner. ***** Reply to the LIST ONLY - Please! ***** ***** And, thanks for such consideration ***** Pádraig Mór, An Sean Gabhar

dmwilli20@aim.com said he was >Researching PYNE from Doneraile parish in county Cork and in Bellingham >and Milford, MA USA According to page 138 of Mallow Field Club Journal #8, 1990, there was a Thomas Pyne Flynn, esq., listed at Mount Ruby, Mallow in the 1824 Pigott's Directory for County Cork. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dennis Ahern | Mallow Archaeological & Historical Society Acton, Massachusetts | Mr. John Caplice, Dromore, Mallow, Co. Cork ahern@world.std.com | http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlmahs/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The Arms of Irish Septs [http://www.heraldry.ws/index.html] Not all ancient Irish families have traditional arms recorded in authoritative heraldic sources. The Genealogical Office in Dublin, formerly known as the Office of Arms, is of course the principal source for such information. Grants and even Confirmations of Arms to individual members of a sept do not give to other persons of the same name, not included in the terms of the grant or confirmation, any right to use such arms. There are, however, a number of coats of arms on record which by custom are regarded as appertaining to all members of a sept. At this point it would be well to consider what we mean by the term "sept" - the word "clan" has been avoided because its use might imply the existence in Ireland of a clan system like that so highly developed in Scotland, which in fact we never had in this country. The term "sept" has never, as far as I know, been given an authoritative technical definition. It can perhaps best be explained by saying that it is a collective term describing a group of persons who, or whose immediate and known ancestors, bore a common surname and inhabited the same locality. Some danger exists of persons not of the true ancestry of a sept being inextricably identified with it. There is no doubt that up to the middle of the seventeenth century many of the labouring class had no hereditary surnames. This is referred to here only to indicate a possible objection to a wide interpretation of sept arms, namely that "serfs" (as they have been called in this connection) may, when the practice of using transitory surnames died out, have assumed as their permanent surnames those of their masters, rather in the same way as the slaves of the plantations in the West Indies sometimes assumed planter surnames. While this contention is not without substance, the consensus of opinion is that such assumption was not at all widespread. The elasticity inherent in the concept of sept arms is repugnant to British heraldic practice. In England armorial bearings are held to emanate from the Sovereign and are hereditary, though devoid of sanctions to protect what may be regarded as a family heirloom and personal property; in Scotland the right to bear arms is strictly regulated by law; on the Continent, again, heraldic usage differs considerably from British. Ulster King of Arms (as the head of the Irish Office of Arms in Dublin was called) who derived his authority, like Garter and Lyon, from the King of Great Britain and Ireland, continued to exercise his functions in Ireland until March 31, 1943, when his office was transferred to the Government of Ireland and has since been known as the Genealogical Office, its head being entitled Chief Herald of Ireland. This transfer took place more than twenty years after the establishment of the Irish Free State. On taking over we were at first inclined to adopt the British attitude in heraldic matters; but after a few years the particular conditions existing in Ireland, politically and historically, induced a modification of outlook, especially in regard to sept arms. In England and Scotland all arms to be found in the records of the heraldic authorities, if not extinct, can be claimed by certain specific individuals. Sept arms, as recorded in the Office of Arms in Dublin Castle somewhat loosely to be regarded as appertaining to all members of the sept. The peculiar circumstances of Ireland, it may be added, were recognised two centuries before the transfer to an Irish authority took place, since Confirmations of Arms, based on use, were issued in Ireland, but not in Great Britain where settled conditions existed. It must be emphasised that the acceptance of the principle of sept arms in no way implies that arms appertain to a surname as such. It does not mean, for example, that every man called Kelly or O'Kelly may legitimately use the well-known arms of O'Kelly of Ui Maine. There were several distinct septs of O'Kelly; and O'Kellys of the Meath or Kilkenny septs have no better title to the said arms than a Murphy or an O'Brien. No one, however, can reasonably object to an O'Kelly taking a proprietary interest in those arms, provided that he is unquestionably of a family originating in the O'Kelly country in Connacht. Briefly, then, the position is that many Irish coats of arms may be displayed without impropriety by any person of the sept indicated if he really does belong to that sept. Nevertheless anyone wishing to bear arms in the true heraldic sense, e.g. to have them inscribed on silver or seal or in stone carving, would be well advised to apply for a Confirmation of such arms from the Chief Herald of Ireland, which can be obtained at a moderate fee on production of evidence of descent. Corroborative evidence of "user" is also required in all cases where the proof afforded by descent is inadequate. Searches to obtain such evidence are undertaken by the Genealogical Office. [From "More Irish Families" by Edward MacLysaght, the first Chief Herald of Ireland. ] Footnote by Eddie Geoghegan [http://www.heraldry.ws/index.html} The arms to which MacLysaght refers and which fall in the category of sept arms include, but are not limited to the following ...Aherne, McAuliffe, McAuley (McAwley), Barrett (Cork), Barry, O'Beirne, Blake, Boland, Boylan, Boyle, Brady, Brennan (Connacht), Brennan (Ossory), O'Brien, Broder(ick), Browne (Galway), Burke, Butler, Byrne, McCabe, Cahill, Callaghan, McCann, O'Carroll (Ely), McCarten, McCarthy, Casey, Cassidy, Clancy, Clery, Coffey (Cork), Coghlan, Colgan, Concannon, Condon, O'Connell, O'Connor (five septs - Don, Faly, Kerry, Sligo and Corcomroe), Connolly, Conry (Offaly), Conroy (Mulconry, King), Considine, Corrigan, Costello, Cotter, Creagh, Crean, Crowley, Cullane (Collins), Cullen, Cullinan, Curtin, Cusack, Dalton, Daly, Darcy, Davoren, O'Dea, Dempsey, McDermot, Dillon, Dinneen, Doherty, Donlevy, McDonnell (Clare and Connaught), McDonnell (of the Glens), O'Donnell, Donnellon (Donlon), Donnelly, McDonogh, Donohue, Donovan, Doran, O'Dowd, Doyle, Driscoll, Duggan, Dunne, O'Dwyer, Egan, McEnchroe (Crowe), McEniry (Henry), McEvoy, Fagan, Fahy, Fallon, Farrell, Finnegan, Fitzgerald, Fitzgibbon, Fitspatrick, Flaherty, Flanagan, Fleming, Flynn, Fogarty, Fox (from Kearney), French (Galway), Friel, Gallagher, Galvin, O'Gara, McGarry, Garvey, Guinness (McGuinness, Magennis, McGenis), Geoghegan, Geraghty, Gilfoyle, McGillycuddy, Gorman (Mc and O'), Gormley, McGovern (Magauran), Grady,, McGrath, Griffin (O'Griffy), McGuire (Maguire), Hackett, O'Hagan, Halloran, O'Hanlon, Hanly, Hannon, Hanraghty, O'Hara, Hary, Hartagan, O'Hea (Hayes, Hughes), Heffernan, Hegarty, Hennessy, Hynes (O'Heyne, Hynds), Hickey, Higgins (O'Higgin), Hogan, Holohan, Horan, McHugh, Hurley, McInerney, Jordan (McSurtain), Joyce, Kavanagh (Cavanagh), Keane (O'Cahan), Kearney, Keating, O'Keeffe, O'Kelly (Uí Maine), McKenna, Kennedy, Keogh (Connacht), McKeown, Kieran (Kearns), Kinneally (Munster), Kinsella, Kirwan, Lacy (de Lacy), Lally (Mullally), Lawlor (Lalor), O'Leary, Lonergan, O'Loughlin, McLoughlin (formerly O'Melaghlin), McLoughlin (Tirconnel), Lynch (Galway), McLysaght, Madden, McMahon (Oriel), McMahon (Thomond), O'Mahony, O'Malley, Malone, Mangan, McManus, Martin (Galway), Meagher (Maher), O'Meara, Meehan, Molloy (Mulloy), Moloney, Monaghan, Mooney, Moran, O'More (Moore), Moriarty, Moroney, Morris (Morrison, Galway), O'Mullen, Mulvihil, Murphy (Muskerry), Murphy (O'Morchoe, Wexford), McMurrough, Naughton (Naghten), Nagle, McNally, McNamara, Neilon (Nealon), O'Neill, Nolan, Nugent, Phelan (Whelan, Felan), Plunkett, Power, Purcell (of Loughmoe), Quigley (Cogley, Kegley), McQuillan, Quinn (Annaly), Quinn (Thomond), Quinlan, Rafferty, McRannall (Reynolds), Redmond, Regan (Reagan), Reilly, Riordan, Roche, O'Rourke, Ryan (Mulrian), Scanlan, Shanly, Shaughnessy, O'Shea, Sheehan, Sheehy, Sheridan, Shiel (Shields), O'Sullivan Mór, O'Sullivan Beare, Sweeney, Taaffe, McTiernan, O'Tierney, Tobin, O'Toole, Troy (Trehy), Tully (McAtilla), Wall, Walsh (Iverk) and Woulfe. ***** Reply to the LIST ONLY - Please! ***** ***** And, thanks for such consideration ***** Pádraig Mór, An Sean Gabhar

Yes, I asked the same question of the Admin. person at Co.Clare - but I didn't get an answer - probably because she's still on holidays in Ireland. You'll have to ask Mr. Billingsworth, The List Admin. The recent changes that Rootsweb introduced , seems to have this about. My positive thought was - Great! Rootsweb are now allowing attachments to be sent to Lists - but I don't think so. Although it would be a good idea in that we could send Scans of genealogical items, such as certificates of B.D.M's. to the List. ----- Original Message ----- From: <EAlt117@aol.com> To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 9:30 AM Subject: Re: IRL-CORK Digest, Vol 1, Issue 4 > Why is this digest coming in as an attachment. > Susan > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

www.collectionscanada.ca/genealogy/022-500-e.html ----- Original Message ----- From: padraigogealagain To: IRL-LIMERICK-L@rootsweb.com ; irl-clare@rootsweb.com ; IRL-CORK-L@rootsweb.com ; cotipperary@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 8:11 AM Subject: Canadain Immigrant Archived Sources For those of you who are searching for Irish to Canada, check this site out. It is interesting to read, even if you aren't successful in your particular search. Films not on line are available through Inter-Library loan, at least in Canada, if not elsewhere ***** Reply to the LIST ONLY - Please! ***** ***** And, thanks for such consideration ***** Pádraig Mór, An Sean Gabhar

Why is this digest coming in as an attachment. Susan

I believe digest posts has always arrived in batches of attachments. There has been talk about the ability for US to attach files to our listmail posts, but I have no direct word from Rootsweb on that. It would be better I think to set back and check out anything that sounds like rumor. Many people on this list understands the part of the system we work with every day, but we don't know what other goodies we will have when the whole process begins to properly work. Meanwhile RW is working 24-7 to put out little brushfires with the new list format, as we all know. As list admins we will take care of each problem one by one until the whole system works together. Thanks all and have a great day. Donal O'Collaugh O'Kelly ----- Original Message ----- From: "padraigogealagain" <padraigogealagain@rogers.com> To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com>; <irl-clare@rootsweb.com>; <IRL-Limerick@rootsweb.com>; <cotipperary@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [COTIPPERARY] IRL-CORK Digest,Attachments now being sent with these ? > Yes, I asked the same question of the Admin. person at Co.Clare - but I > didn't get an answer - probably because she's still on holidays in > Ireland. > You'll have to ask Mr. Billingsworth, The List Admin. > The recent changes that Rootsweb introduced , seems to have this about. My > positive thought was - Great! Rootsweb are now allowing attachments to be > sent to Lists - but I don't think so. Although it would be a good idea in > that we could send Scans of genealogical items, such as certificates of > B.D.M's. to the List. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <EAlt117@aol.com> > To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 9:30 AM > Subject: Re: IRL-CORK Digest, Vol 1, Issue 4 >

What is the site address?

Researching PYNE from Doneraile parish in county Cork and in Bellingham and Milford, MA USA Dave Williams Marlborough, MA ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection.

Was there a link associated with your message? Thank you. Linda Researching MacDonald/McAulay (PEI, Canada); Millington (Glasgow and Sheffield, England); Paterson, Warnock, Hannah, Stewart, Mooney, Hall, Williamson, Brown (Lanark, Scotland); Connolly, Hayes, Murphy (County Cork) and Hall (County Tyrone Ireland); Boisvert/LaFleur (Quebec, Canada

For those of you who are searching for Irish to Canada, check this site out. It is interesting to read, even if you aren't successful in your particular search. Films not on line are available through Inter-Library loan, at least in Canada, if not elsewhere ***** Reply to the LIST ONLY - Please! ***** ***** And, thanks for such consideration ***** Pádraig Mór, An Sean Gabhar

can i receive this in plain text?

I have been unable to open any of the above issues. Can you help

may i have irl-cork mail received in something other mim? do i need to request plain text? please advise as I am unable to view the mim text. thank you colleen

There are exceptions all over the place, and Rootsweb is working hard to put out the brushfires, but YES the newly migrated lists are defaulted to text, but you can request that your admin uncheck test and check the mime boxes. This change can work the other way too. If you wish to sub both ways (the old D and L way), you need subscribe with two different email addresses. Yes, I know that is a pain<GRIN> Reach admin at irl-cork-admin@rootsweb.com Anyone else having list problems? Don, CC and admin of RoscommonGenWeb and mailing list. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Cmwjhw@aol.com> To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 7:54 AM Subject: Re: IRL-CORK Digest, Vol 1, Issue 2 > may i have irl-cork mail received in something other mim? do i need to > request plain text? > > please advise as I am unable to view the mim text. > > thank you > colleen

Hi list: My thanks to all who replied to my 1911 Census query. The answers were just what I hoped for, local knowledge plus some idea of what to do next. A bit like asking for directions when lost in a strange town. The forms B & N I received were from the National Archives in Dublin at a cost of 2.54 euros (including postage), so not a great expense. I neglected to include my email address, so maybe they just did the best they could with the limited info. I supplied. My reason for choosing Carrignafoy is that the place appears as an address on a SILLETT marriage certificate in 1920, (parish of Queenstown). Like many people doing family research, we didn't ask the right questions at the right time, so we can never be sure we've got it right until a record is found. I now know that there is a Census Form A and the film numbers which I should order from my local LDS centre. Thank you all Art Pearse in Ontario

Art Pearse <apearse@muskoka.com> said: >Stories passed down indicate that my wife's mother watched the "Titanic" >from "the cliffs", which would put the family in Cobh in 1912 and with a >good chance of appearing on the 1911 Census (I know, it's a bit of a >guess). Although parts of Cobh are very steep, I would have guessed that the "cliffs" referred to were more likely at the Old Head of Kinsale, from which the Titanic would have been visible as it steamed West. It could also have been viewable from Roche's Point, Whitegate, Ringaskiddy, Crosshaven, or numerous other vantage points as it exited the harbor. -dja

ritawinkle@cwctv.net asked: >seeking informtion on the above families from the Kanturk >Killeenleigh area any help would be very much appreciated The Mallow index at http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlmahs/midxfrm.htm shows several Nagles, but only one Winkle, a William Winkle of Quartertown who was listed in a 1926 postal directory. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dennis Ahern | Mallow Archaeological & Historical Society Acton, Massachusetts | Mr. John Caplice, Dromore, Mallow, Co. Cork ahern@world.std.com | http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlmahs/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -